Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    Lois Chiles should never have appeared in Moonraker but instead of featured six years later as one of the horses at Zorin's stud farm

    That's harsh.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Lois Chiles should never have appeared in Moonraker but instead of featured six years later as one of the horses at Zorin's stud farm

    That's harsh.

    Wow...that is @-) She wasn't the greatest of actresses but I still found her quite her quite attractive
  • Casino Royale (2006) is a good movie, but it's a terrible Bond film. The passage of time will prove that this hysteria around today will be seen as foolish and movies such as Diamonds are Forever and Moonraker will not only be more memorable but will be seen as better movies when compared to Casino Royale.

    Should rattle a few Craig/CR loving cages!

    I think CR is overrated but it's no where near terrible. Top 10 for me, I just think it's far from the best Bond film.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Casino Royale (2006) is a good movie, but it's a terrible Bond film. The passage of time will prove that this hysteria around today will be seen as foolish and movies such as Diamonds are Forever and Moonraker will not only be more memorable but will be seen as better movies when compared to Casino Royale.

    Should rattle a few Craig/CR loving cages!

    DAF and MR memorable and better than CR? Okay, I don't have a problem with people liking Moore and his type of films, but what is wrong with character development?! Why is it so hated by Moore fans?
  • Casino Royale (2006) is a good movie, but it's a terrible Bond film. The passage of time will prove that this hysteria around today will be seen as foolish and movies such as Diamonds are Forever and Moonraker will not only be more memorable but will be seen as better movies when compared to Casino Royale.

    Should rattle a few Craig/CR loving cages!

    DAF and MR memorable and better than CR? Okay, I don't have a problem with people liking Moore and his type of films, but what is wrong with character development?! Why is it so hated by Moore fans?

    In my opinion, DAF and MR are better than CR. It's not a crime is it to like these films ahead of CR?? I wrote an extensive review of DAF on this forum just a few days ago and am in the process of preparing writing one about MR. What I do not get/like is Craig fans who dismiss the 1970's and Moore era as something to be ashamed of? As I always say, without Moore and his films, the series would have died.

    I don't hate character development, it's just Craig fans failure to admit that Moore was more than just a comic Bond that bothers me. He had terrifically tense moments and great dramatic actions that displayed his great acting. If Craig had been in OP or had acted out the scene like in Howe's office in AVTAK (where Moore was terrific had being brooding and acting amazingly), people would be praising Craig no end
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Casino Royale (2006) is a good movie, but it's a terrible Bond film. The passage of time will prove that this hysteria around today will be seen as foolish and movies such as Diamonds are Forever and Moonraker will not only be more memorable but will be seen as better movies when compared to Casino Royale.

    Should rattle a few Craig/CR loving cages!

    [yoda] put down the crack pipe, you must[/yoda]


    Brosnan wasnt a terrible Bond but there's always been something glaringly off about hos portrayal and I think it's, Brosnan lacking Bondian customary good manners and the chivalrous gentleman nature all the other Bond's have had, particularly when interacting with the villains.

  • Posts: 1,548
    Daniel Craig is a better Bond than Connery (in terms of acting if not the way Fleming envisioned him to look). Also Casino Royale IS a great film and a CLASSIC Bond film imo but I respect those who disagree.
  • LeChiffre wrote:
    Daniel Craig is a better Bond than Connery (in terms of acting if not the way Fleming envisioned him to look). Also Casino Royale IS a great film and a CLASSIC Bond film imo but I respect those who disagree.

    Casino Royale is a terrific film, it really is and I do respect it and there is some terrific scenes in it (I love the dialogue on the train and Eva Green is amazing). But at this moment (and because Craig may be my Bond as I grow up), i don't see it as either a classic movie or a Bond movie even. In time? Maybe it will move up the table in my rankings.
  • I liked CR but, in my opinion, I think Octopussy, MoonRaker, AVTAK , DAF and TWINE are better than CR.


  • samshwey wrote:
    I liked CR but, in my opinion, I think Octopussy, MoonRaker, AVTAK , DAF and TWINE are better than CR.

    =D> With the exception of TWINE, I applaud your taste in films :) and all are better than CR IMO
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    In my opinion, DAF and MR are better than CR. It's not a crime is it to like these films ahead of CR??

    No, it's not a crime. I have no problem with people who like those types of films. But just how the hell is Blofeld in drag, Bond making a horrible joke after crawling out of a sewage pipe, Shady friggin' Tree, flap arm Jaws, the horrible Jaws love subplot or that damned gondola better than CR?!
    I wrote an extensive review of DAF on this forum just a few days ago and am in the process of preparing writing one about MR. What I do not get/like is Craig fans who dismiss the 1970's and Moore era as something to be ashamed of? As I always say, without Moore and his films, the series would have died.

    I don't consider Moore's era as something to be ashamed of (I've mentioned on other threads that LALD was my first Bond film, I love TSWLM, and that Christopher Walken in AVTAK is one of my favorite villains). My problem is that Moore Whoores are as dismissive of Craig's films and fans as they claim Craig fans are of Moore's films and fans. I don't know that the series would have died (maybe gone away for a little while, but then returned, as the books did), but since we can't erase the Moore era, we'll never find out (just like, for all we know, NSNA existing may very well be the reason OP is a decent movie, but since NSNA can't just slip away into nonexistence, we'll never know).
    I don't hate character development, it's just Craig fans failure to admit that Moore was more than just a comic Bond that bothers me. He had terrifically tense moments and great dramatic actions that displayed his great acting. If Craig had been in OP or had acted out the scene like in Howe's office in AVTAK (where Moore was terrific had being brooding and acting amazingly), people would be praising Craig no end

    Yes, Moore had his moments of drama and just plain badass action (the ending of TSWLM, anyone?), but he will, probably for decades to come, be known as the comedic Bond. That's not a distinction that Craig fans threw upon him. I called him that before the Craig Bond existed. Every Bond will go down as what they've gone down as. Connery will always be known as the first Bond, Lazenby as the one-off Bond, Moore as the comic Bond, Dalton as the (for some reason) the tall Bond (I read this distinction somewhere before, and it just stuck with me), Brosnan as the gadget Bond and Craig as the realistic Bond. These will last for a very long time.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    I love CR. I also love TSWLM. However, they are the extremes in acceptable Bond to me', both in uber serious & comic book. In the future, history will rate Connery's first four and Dalton's two as THE best.
    Unless Skyfall is good enough to join that club.

    Is that controversial?
  • chrisisall wrote:
    I love CR. I also love TSWLM. However, they are the extremes in acceptable Bond to me', both in uber serious & comic book. In the future, history will rate Connery's first four and Dalton's two as THE best.
    Unless Skyfall is good enough to join that club.

    Is that controversial?

    No space for Moore's finest?

    When Bond waves goodbye to Moneypenny at his wedding is sadder and more emotional than Tracy being killed for me
  • 002002
    Posts: 581
    1. Die Another Day (the song) isn't that bad.
    2. Goldfinger is massively overrated.
    3. Thunderball is painful to sit through at points.
    4. On Her Majesty's Secret Service with Lazenby works better than it would have with Sean or Roger.
    5. M's relationship with Craig's Bond is interesting and enjoyable to watch.
    6. Quantum of Solace is one of the better Bond movies.
    7. For Your Eyes Only is largely underappreciated.

    1. its a good song remove the vocals and its amazing
    2. its a fun romp but compared to FRWL or TLD it feels a bit like Moonraker
    3. when i was a kid i thought it was deathly dull but it has its moments NSNA was a more fun version
    4. well nobody could do the end scene with tracys death better than Lazenby...maybe Dalton though
    5. the relationship is fine but its not like Brosnan and Dench's M relationship which was better.
    6. Completely and massively disagree QOS is the worst bond film peroid
    7. i agree FYEO was Moore's finest hour
  • 002002
    Posts: 581
    SJK91 wrote:
    Another one:

    - Casino Royale is my favorite Bond film, and Goldfinger is my second favorite Bond film (both films are among my all time favorite films ever)

    - I didn't think David Arnold was THAT bad, a tad uninspired yes, but not terrible

    - Brosnan was very stiff and wooden in GoldenEye

    - Tomorrow Never Dies is a solid Bond adventure and Elliot Carver is a fairly good villain

    - I like Caroline Bliss as MP and her scenes with Dalton in TLD. As a matter of fact, I like her more than Samantha Bond.

    - The best scene in the ENTIRE series is Bond's slaying of Professor Dent in Dr. No. There have been some fantastic scenes in many of the films, but none of them have quite lived up to that one IMO. (I think many of you can agree that it is a great scene, but it being my favorite might be controversial)

    - I'm curious to see how James Brolin would have turned out as Bond in OP

    - You Know My Name is the best Bond song

    - If you take away the stupid Bondola and Jaws flapping his arms like a bird, the first half of Moonraker is mostly great

    - When compared to DAF, Sean Connery looks healthier and more like Bond in NSNA

    - I don't mind Dr. No's score

    That's enough for now, me thinks.

    - Both are good films but Goldeneye beats both of them
    - David Arnold was quite underrated i did enjoy his Stargate soundtrack more so
    - not really some moments were not his best but he gives a good performance especially on the beach with Nataylia one of the most sensitive moments in the Bond film history
    - Agreed Johnathan Pryce was sublime and TND is a bit underappreciated
    - Caroline Bliss as Moneypenny was wrong- she was a bit too much schoolgirl she didnt have the chemestary that Brosnan/Samantha or Lois Maxwell had with either Roger, Sean or Lazenby
    - somewhat agree
    - or Sam Neil either
    - yeah its one of the best
    - Moonraker is one of the films where you either love it or hate it but i enjoy 98% of it
    - unfortuantely i agree but 17 years after DAF Connery was getting on
    -Dr No had music??? i thought there were only 2 tracks and they kept repeating it all the time
  • edited October 2012 Posts: 1,310
    I think you flip-flopped us there, @002! ;)
  • 1) Lazenby was one of the best Bonds, not one of the worst.
    2) Goldfinger deserves all the hype it gets.
    3) I am not a fan of Timothy Dalton.
    4) Moonraker was the best Moore Bond.
    5) QoS is better than CR. A lot better.
    6) Mark Forster understood the character better than any director since Hunt.

    Those are my most glaring I think.
  • When Bond waves goodbye to Moneypenny at his wedding is sadder and more emotional than Tracy being killed for me

    I might actually agree with you here. Moneypenny was a character who had been in all the films so it sort of meant more.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    002 wrote:
    1. Die Another Day (the song) isn't that bad.
    2. Goldfinger is massively overrated.
    3. Thunderball is painful to sit through at points.
    4. On Her Majesty's Secret Service with Lazenby works better than it would have with Sean or Roger.
    5. M's relationship with Craig's Bond is interesting and enjoyable to watch.
    6. Quantum of Solace is one of the better Bond movies.
    7. For Your Eyes Only is largely underappreciated.

    1. its a good song remove the vocals and its amazing Well, I don't know. I can't imagine that song without vocals.
    2. its a fun romp but compared to FRWL or TLD it feels a bit like Moonraker A bit like Moonraker? I don't get that at all.
    3. when i was a kid i thought it was deathly dull but it has its moments NSNA was a more fun version What is this? I don't even...
    4. well nobody could do the end scene with tracys death better than Lazenby...maybe Dalton though And Craig. Craig would have been awesome in that scene.
    5. the relationship is fine but its not like Brosnan and Dench's M relationship which was better. What real relationship did they have, besides the usual "Hello M/Hello 007, here's your assignment"?
    6. Completely and massively disagree QOS is the worst bond film peroid The word you're looking for is "period". But, c'mon, you have to agree, it's better than DAD.
    7. i agree FYEO was Moore's finest hour Granted, it feels like the plot only lasts an hour, but TSWLM was way better. I do still love FYEO, though.

    I bolded my comments here.
  • Casino Royale (2006) is a good movie, but it's a terrible Bond film. The passage of time will prove that this hysteria around today will be seen as foolish and movies such as Diamonds are Forever and Moonraker will not only be more memorable but will be seen as better movies when compared to Casino Royale.

    Should rattle a few Craig/CR loving cages!

    How is Casino Royale a terrible Bond film?

    It has all the classic trappings - done very well - and investigates Bond's character and motivations in a way no other film has done.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Casino Royale (2006) is a good movie, but it's a terrible Bond film. The passage of time will prove that this hysteria around today will be seen as foolish and movies such as Diamonds are Forever and Moonraker will not only be more memorable but will be seen as better movies when compared to Casino Royale.

    Should rattle a few Craig/CR loving cages!

    How is Casino Royale a terrible Bond film?

    It has all the classic trappings - done very well - and investigates Bond's character and motivations in a way no other film has done.

    Most hardcore Moore fans just wanted another Moonraker. To them, character development is overrated.
  • edited October 2012 Posts: 12,837
    @Agent007391 M and Brosnan had a different relationship to past Bonds, especially in GE. Would Bernard Lee have called Bond a sexist dinosour?

    I prefer Brosnan/Dench to Craig/Dench. Both Bonds worked well with her but I really don't like the whole mum thing they have going on in Craigs films.
  • Posts: 1,817
    Talking about M-Bond relationship, I don't know if this could be consider controversial, but I prefer Moore with Robert Brown's M than with Bernard Lee's. That last one was Connery's M, but with Lazenby was also very good.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    @Agent007391 M and Brosnan had a different relationship to past Bonds, especially in GE. Would Bernard Lee have called Bond a sexist dinosour?

    No, he wouldn't have (especially considering, I have a feeling, Sir Miles was like that himself, in the younger days). But, really other than that scene in GE, they have the same relationship as Bond did with Sir Miles. A little bit more seeps through in TWINE, but not (I feel) until after M goes to Elektra's place... where ever the hell that is (Baku, I think... maybe... I don't remember, because I haven't seen TWINE in a while and have no desire to watch it at the moment).
    I prefer Brosnan/Dench to Craig/Dench. Both Bonds worked well with her but I really don't like the whole mum thing they have going on in Craigs films.

    I will say, I think the relationship works better in CR than QOS (though their scenes at the beginning of QOS are great, I think; "We promised them Le Chiffre, they got Le Chiffre." "They got his body." "Well, if they'd wanted his soul, they should have made a deal with a priest."). Their scene together in M's flat, in particular, is one of the best Bond/M scenes in the whole of the film series.
  • Casino Royale (2006) is a good movie, but it's a terrible Bond film. The passage of time will prove that this hysteria around today will be seen as foolish and movies such as Diamonds are Forever and Moonraker will not only be more memorable but will be seen as better movies when compared to Casino Royale.

    Should rattle a few Craig/CR loving cages!

    How is Casino Royale a terrible Bond film?

    It has all the classic trappings - done very well - and investigates Bond's character and motivations in a way no other film has done.

    Most hardcore Moore fans just wanted another Moonraker. To them, character development is overrated.

    Character development is welcome...but not at the cost of the rejection of Bond elements. I do think in time, Craig's films (CR and QOS definately, with SF still to be judged) will be harshly viewed for there rejection of the classic Bond elements.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Casino Royale (2006) is a good movie, but it's a terrible Bond film. The passage of time will prove that this hysteria around today will be seen as foolish and movies such as Diamonds are Forever and Moonraker will not only be more memorable but will be seen as better movies when compared to Casino Royale.

    Should rattle a few Craig/CR loving cages!

    How is Casino Royale a terrible Bond film?

    It has all the classic trappings - done very well - and investigates Bond's character and motivations in a way no other film has done.

    Most hardcore Moore fans just wanted another Moonraker. To them, character development is overrated.

    Character development is welcome...but not at the cost of the rejection of Bond elements. I do think in time, Craig's films (CR and QOS definately, with SF still to be judged) will be harshly viewed for there rejection of the classic Bond elements.

    Like what?
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Casino Royale (2006) is a good movie, but it's a terrible Bond film. The passage of time will prove that this hysteria around today will be seen as foolish and movies such as Diamonds are Forever and Moonraker will not only be more memorable but will be seen as better movies when compared to Casino Royale.

    Should rattle a few Craig/CR loving cages!

    How is Casino Royale a terrible Bond film?

    It has all the classic trappings - done very well - and investigates Bond's character and motivations in a way no other film has done.

    Most hardcore Moore fans just wanted another Moonraker. To them, character development is overrated.

    Character development is welcome...but not at the cost of the rejection of Bond elements. I do think in time, Craig's films (CR and QOS definately, with SF still to be judged) will be harshly viewed for there rejection of the classic Bond elements.

    Like what?

    I'm still trying to figure that out, too.

    1. Pre-title sequence? Check.
    2. Song? Check (one of the best in the series, for CR).
    3. Introduction of villains, for some reason often taking place right after the song? Check.
    4. Bond meeting up with M? Check (it happens twice, in both films, in fact).
    5. Bond meeting the Bond girl? Check.
    6. Bond driving an awesome car? Check.
    7. Bond taunting the villain in some way, usually public? Check.
    8. Bond physically fighting people and/or shooting people? Check, Check, Check, Check (In this order: Guy at desk, 9 Different Guys, Mr. Stairs, Carpool).
    9. Bond having a battle of wits with the villain, sometimes with Bond being captured? Check.
    10. A final shootout, leading to a physical confrontation with a villain? Check.
    11. James Bond Will Return? Check.

    Besides Q and Moneypenny, every single element from the prior Bond films returns in CR and QOS. You have modern gadgets with Bond using a variety of cell phones, having that implant, all that tech for some reason lining the MI6 walls, and that Blu-Ray player that people are using for security camera recordings in CR. So, @Signed_By_RogerMoore, what elements are you talking about?
  • GoldenballGoldenball United States
    Posts: 74
    LeChiffre wrote:
    Quantum of Solace aint that bad a film! Better than most of Roger Moore's entries!

    Better than all of them. IMHO.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Goldenball wrote:
    LeChiffre wrote:
    Quantum of Solace aint that bad a film! Better than most of Roger Moore's entries!

    Better than all of them. IMHO.

    Hell yes, brother. \m/
  • No - it isn't

    The contest is over for today, but keeping it short, be aware that for Quantum Of Solace, you have Live and Let Die, Golden Gun, The Spy Who Loved Me, Moonraker and For Your Eyes Only as better James Bond movies, all with Roger Moore, and I'm being quite serious. Only Octopussy and A View To a Kill are anywhere as bad as Solace, and even then Octopussy may just be above it, leaving only Moore's swansong, alone in the murky depths of Bond sewer water along with Solace (and Diamonds are Forever)

    A fair number of Moore's releases, were fun, vibrant, they had adventure, even if most often than not, they were damn childish nonsense and adolescent humor - but they kept the interest and got you involved - and you could keep track of events on screen without the need for a bucket to vomit in to such was the breakneck speed of some of Craig's most recent entry. Yes, it was a serious Bond, with some decent actions bits here and there, but still a very lacklustre effort, and the fact of the matter is, Roger Moore's tenure, for the most part, offered better adventure and thrills than the last release could manage

    No matter what nobody says
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