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Comments
Moonraker?
How... how exactly is Moore dressed like a clown better than QOS?
Well, this is true, specifically the "fun" and "adventure" parts. I'm not entirely sure if "vibrant" qualifies, though.
Yes, yes they were.
What the hell are you - blargh! Ah... ah... sorry... threw up a little when I read that... oh... now, what the hell are you talking about? I found QOS very easy to follow (oddly enough, not as easy to remember afterward) while I'm usually lost half the time in Moonraker (I always forget that Bond goes to South America), For Your Eyes Only (I often forget where anything happens in that film), and A View to a Kill (What? When the hell did we get to San Francisco?).
Now, c'mon, the final shootouts and battle with Greene redeems almost everything wrong about QOS. So, I think, does the car chase in the PTS.
Who, exactly, are you implying is "nobody" here?
I respect your comments and your views and I thank you for taking an interest in what I said.
We all have different opinions. That's what makes forums like this so good, because we can talk and debate things like this.
My top 10 (in this order) is: The Spy Who Loved Me, From Russia With Love, Octopussy, Live and Let Die, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, Thunderball, The Living Daylights, Diamonds Are Forever, Moonraker and For Your Eyes Only. I think you would agree that's a pretty wide ranging mix of films (Licence To Kill is 11th) with different themes and different Bond's. I've not favoured the "serious" films or the "comedy" films or films with one type of actor.
Certainly, Roger Moore appears 5 times in my top 10. Not because they are Roger Moore films but because they are good films and I enjoy them. Yes, call me sad/weird but I do enjoy Moonraker more than Casino Royale. In my opinion it is a better Bond film than Casino Royale or Quantum of Solace. It is only my opinion, I do not force it on to anyone though I do enjoy talking about it. What is troubling is the lack of acknowledgement for Moore's darker moments and movies. For Your Eyes Only is a terrific movie though some people judge it purely by the inclusion of Blofeld, Max the Parrot, Margaret Thatcher and the soundtrack, ignoring all the positives. Octopussy is one of the best Bond movies of the series, dark and serious. And what do people reduce it to in there assessment? The Tarzan yell (which is poor) and Bond dressed as a clown. They ignore the tense moments, the great dialogue between Bond girl and Bond and the terrific train/stop the bomb sequence. It's brilliant.
But ultimately, that is just my opinion. Casino Royale is a fine movie. There are a lot of great points to it. Daniel Craig is simply marvellous as 007 (and I am a Roger Moore fan), the plot is terrific, the casino scene is up there in tension with the aforementioned train/bomb scene in Octopussy and the script is sparkling in places. For me, Vesper is the best Bond girl (or, more accurately, the Bond girl with the best dialogue). Her and Bond on the train is the series at it's best and I love every second of it. There is a lot missing from it but I accept it's a reboot and a change so it was bound to be different. Unfortunetly, I just do not enjoy it as much as the films listed above. Nor Do I enjoy it as much as A View To a Kill. It's not a slant on Casino Royale, I just enjoy certain movies more. But as my top 10 shows, i'm not biased to one certain type of movie. In time, Casino Royale may move up the list in my rankings. But at the moment, it is behind great films like Diamonds are Forever and Moonraker.
As for Quantum of Solace, I do think it is the worst movie by far. Just a weak film, I think Craig was weaker in it than in Casino Royale but that's just my opinion. It may be controversial (as the thread title suggests) but that's not on purpose, everyone has there own tastes. Quantum of Solace was very poor in every way, I just don't enjoy it nor do I think it has a good plot or sub plot even. But that's my opinion.
Those who love Craig films I respect because everyone has there tastes. But I just think that there are better films and better Bond films out there than them. I say this now, in a few years, my view may change. but at the moment, give me Bambi and Thumper, the Gondola and May Day any day of the week to the dullness of Cr and QOS
Anyway, that's my opinion anyway. Feel free to comment back :)
That... that actually surprises me.
Have we actually all turned into broken records? I think this is the tenth or eleventh time I've read this, and two of them, I'm certain, were my own words.
Moonraker above FYEO? (And, for that matter, DAF above Moonraker?!) I'll give you all of them, except DAF, as being good films, and worthy of being in a top 10 list, except DAF, however, in what position do you place Brosnan's films?
I do have to interject here. Even if you don't feel that you find them good because they're Moore films, because you're a Moore fan, you feel more enjoyment out of them. It's probably not even conscious.
I loved GE, and before Craig's version of Bond, it was probably my favorite film, but when Craig gave us the more realistic Bond, and I started to favor that, GE started to weaken to me. It took me a couple years to figure out why, exactly, this had happened, and it was that, somewhere deep inside, Brosnan's Bond had died in me, and Craig not only taken his place, but all others as well. I'm not happy about this, and I've tried to do everything I can to change it, but on some level (not a conscious one at all), Craig took over, and I find more enjoyment out of his films and video games than others.
Our tastes are always dominated by our favorite Bonds, even if we don't notice it.
Okay, you're sad/weird. :)
I, for one, don't brush off Moore's darker, tenser, more serious moments. I love them, in fact. My problem is when they seem to take a back seat just because Moore either wanted to say something funny, or the director asked him to say something funny (in my opinion, most of his jokes during M's briefings are uncalled for/not even funny).
People actually judge FYEO because Blofeld's in the PTS? Really? The first time I saw FYEO (before the Connery movies, in fact), I just wondered who the hell the bald guy in the wheelchair was, and didn't really consider him a factor in the movie. Once I found out who it was, I then asked why he was there, but I didn't base the quality of the film on that one scene. In fact, I considered it one of the best scenes in the film, mainly because it started off showcasing that Moore's Bond actually cares about his long deceased wife. I don't seem to remember Margaret Thatcher or a parrot (and I honestly don't think I've ever even heard the soundtrack), so I can't comment on those.
I often make fun of the film because of the clown sequence (I forget about the Tarzan yell all the damn time), but other than those scenes, I did enjoy OP, and found it to be a very serious film for Moore (I especially like the Property of a Lady scenes, and all the Cold War drama). Honestly, I kind of like the clown scenes, too. They gave me something to mock.
A View to a Kill? Dear God, man!
Actually, based on your top 10, you seem to prefer the more serious films from certain Bonds. TSWLM, FRWL, OP, OHMSS, these are your 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th films in your 10, and all of them are more serious films (LALD I don't consider "serious", though it's in no real way comedic, either). I don't exactly see CR moving on your list (unless another DAD comes out... *shudder*).
You're not alone in thinking it's both the worst film, or that it's a weaker film than CR (I think it's weaker than CR, but not the worst film by far, that "honor" goes to DAD). Many people are of that opinion, and it's in no way controversial.
Could you have at least said, y'know, Jaws? Or Tee Hee? or the Lotus? Or Hugo Drax? Bambi, Thumper, that gondola and May Day? Really?
A well-written post, and certainly one that was entertaining to comment about. A good showing, all around.
Controversial and nonsensical! A double header!
How exactly is QOS a better FYEO, when they're nothing alike?
A very good and fair response I felt, and one I enjoyed reading. Again, thank you for taking the time to read/comment.
Casino Royale is currently 16th in my ranking, bottom of the top 16 films in the series. After that top 11 I mentioned in my first post, there is a small gap between 11 and 12, with the next 5 films being in a group where they can be interchangeable and I'd still be happy:
12) Goldfinger
13) You Only Live Twice
14) A View To A Kill
15) Goldeneye
16) Casino Royale
There is a big gap (in my opinion) between 16 and 17 in my list (my bottom 6 from 17th to 22nd is The Man With The Golden Gun, Dr No, The World Is Not Enough, Die Another Day, Tomorrow Never Dies and Quantum of Solace) Casino Royale can only go higher and on a given day, it could be 12th. and let's face it, for it being such a new film, it's only going to improve with age in my ranking.
With regards to Octopussy, it really is terrific. If I lived in Udaipor, I would go to that cinema which plays it every night just to enjoy it over and over again. I never get bored with it, it's brilliant. The clown scene is unbelievably tense...it's desperate, it's frantic and it's done behind a face of fun...it's menacing and striking in it's nature.
I like DAF too. It may be seen as poor (and I do believe the passage of time/reassessment of OHMSS has done it no favours) but for me, I love it and enjoy it thoroughly.
I love that no ones Bond film list would look identical, theres too much variety. I do like Daniel Craig as James Bond (i'm currently writing something about it). For me though (at the moment) he is only the 4th best Bond behind Moore, Connery and Dalton. It sounds bad, being 4th out of 6 but the actors ahead of him have all been brilliant. If Craig makes a few more (even if Skyfall is brilliant and he suddenly quits) I can see me moving him ahead of Dalton. To break into Connery/Moore territory will be asking a lot though I will settle for just good movies
I thnk he's a fan favorite but I didn't like Zorin.
I think this is more controversial here than in the general population but if I had a choice, I'd rather have Brosnan as Bond than Craig.
A tone of revenge in the plot, a darker interpretation of the Bond character, at first the good guys seem like the bad guys (Camille, Columbo).
I'm sad OP is remembered for this because it's so much more than that. There's a great story, Moore on top form, a memorable henchman, 2 great villians, a good Bond girl, etc.
Moore dressed as a clown helps keep up the tension because he's actually being serious while doing it. And when Roger Moore is being serious, you know there's trouble. Besides, it was just Bond using a disguise, which is sort of a spy's job.
The only bits of OP I think are worse than QOS are some of the sight/sound gags, especially in the jungle chase. Other than that, I think it's a great top 10 Bond film and Moore's 2nd best.
In a nutshell, you've gave a great summing up of a terrific Bond film. Octopussy is really fantastic in every single way. Great point made about the clown scene...there is nothing funny/stupid about it. It's just brilliant tension created by Moore. And it is the perfect disguise isn't it? A clown suit at a circus?
The jungle chase is tense and well done...Moore looks stressed and bothered. Tarzan lets it down and that, my friends, is the only bad thing about Octopussy
It is better than any scene with Judy Dench, which are so cringy and awful
Mind you Casino Royale alone almost bet both of their tenures, but I really wasn't impressed by Quantum of Solace. Skyfall will almost certainly put Craig's tenure above Brosnan's, and quite possibly Moore's as well.
-TND is Brosnan's best film and features his best performance as Bond
-GE and GF are both overrated films in the series
-MR is not a terrible film, definitely not the worst in the series
-The plane stunt in the PTS of GE is worse than DAD's parasurfing scene
-YOLT is the weakest '60's film by far and features a preposterous plot
-I for one love the "Time to face gravity" line in DAD
-All of David Arnold's scores are good. Not as memorable as Barry's best, but still better than most of the one off composers
-QoS is a sadly misunderstood film and a good follow-up to CR
-OP is probably Moore's third best film, only behind TSWLM and FYEO
-DAD does have good ideas but suffers from horrible execution
-GF is inferior to both DN and FRWL and is at times incredibly goofy and slow paced
-A lazy, out of shape, disinterested Connery would have ruined OHMSS and Lazenby gives a commendable performance as a vulnerable, yet believably tough secret agent
-Finally (and this is deals with the book series) I think DAF is one of Fleming's strongest entries into the series while OHMSS is actually poorly plotted and one of the weaker ones
Wow, let the flaming begin!
Welcome!!
No flaming from me since I agreed with lots of it and even when I disagreed I could understand why you thought that.
No real flaming going on.
Say something negative about Bond23 and you'll see some flaming and nasty remarks. ;)
You are right and I did change my writings.
Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy the fact that the film uses material from Fleming (especially the terrific keelhauling sequence), and Gogol has probably his most effective appearance in the series (I love that he doesn't even speak a full sentence in that confrontation with Bond - I think all he says is "No!"). But overall, FYEO lacks the spectacle of the "fun" Bonds and the intelligence of the truly great ones. I do agree that it's Moore's second best after TSWLM, but that's not saying much. ;)
It would not bother me if bond 24 was his last bond movie. Of course the producers will try to hang on to DC as long as possible if a suitable bond number 7 does not emerge.