Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Creasy47 wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I love AVTAK, myself. Hits the spot every time when I'm in the mood for it.

    I'm right there with you.

    I wouldn't say I love it but I definitely don't hate it. It's a weird one but it's fun, easy to watch and actually has quite a bit going for it. Give me something bizarre but memorable like AVTAK over something painfully forgettable like FYEO any day.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    CrzChris4 wrote: »
    Instead of the Tarzan yell in Octopussy

    Probably wouldn't be panned nearly as much, lol.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    In regards to AVTAK, it certainly does have its flaws, but...

    Zorin is the BEST Bond villain. I mean ever.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,114
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    For me the firetruck was the nadir of the series until the legendary tsunami. I still find it very uncomfortable to watch, and poor Rog seems almost ashamed to be doing the scene (as does Pierce while holding onto the chute to be fair).

    I have no problem with May Day jumping Bond though. Love that scene.

    Only Moore could have pulled that scene. And with all the issues with AVTAK, and Moore's age is certainly one of them, I think a younger actor would not have worked at all in such love scene.

    I still think Roger should have done his OWWWHHRROOOHHHH sound when May-Day climbs on him.

    I’d be interested in a list with all those moments when he does that.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,026
    After the Wilhelm Scream...the Roger Scream?
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,253
    Roadphill wrote: »
    In regards to AVTAK, it certainly does have its flaws, but...

    Zorin is the BEST Bond villain. I mean ever.

    Moore may be a little (lot) on the old side in this film, but Walken more then makes up for it as one of the best villains in the series for sure. It goes to show the films need some tension, if it isn't in the fighting, it at least should be in the thwarting of the villains' plan. And Walken sure comes over as genuinly psychotic.
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    edited November 2017 Posts: 732
    I enjoy AVTAK more than TSWLM any time I watch it. Sir Roger may be a little too old but it never disturbed me except the obvious stunt double on the firetruck
  • Roadphill wrote: »
    In regards to AVTAK, it certainly does have its flaws, but...

    Zorin is the BEST Bond villain. I mean ever.

    He is pretty great. I love the little excited laugh he does when he finds out who he's really up against. And he has some great lines. "If you're the best they've got, I'd imagine they'd rather cover up your embarassing incompetence". It's a good job he tried to drown Bond in the lake after, he needed it after that burn. And one of the best villain death scenes for sure.

    I think Walken/Zorin alone elevates AVTAK above FYEO. Kristartos is probably the worst villain of the series for me, it took me a good few years and rewatches to actually remember who he was. For ages I'd always had it in my head that Locque was the main villain just because he has a more memorable look to him.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited November 2017 Posts: 6,289
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    For me the firetruck was the nadir of the series until the legendary tsunami. I still find it very uncomfortable to watch, and poor Rog seems almost ashamed to be doing the scene (as does Pierce while holding onto the chute to be fair).

    I have no problem with May Day jumping Bond though. Love that scene.

    Only Moore could have pulled that scene. And with all the issues with AVTAK, and Moore's age is certainly one of them, I think a younger actor would not have worked at all in such love scene.

    I still think Roger should have done his OWWWHHRROOOHHHH sound when May-Day climbs on him.

    I’d be interested in a list with all those moments when he does that.

    I would be too.

    There are at least two at the end of AVTAK, when Zorin tries to run Bond into the top of the TransAmerica (in-joke?) Building, and again when Moore first dangles from a single rope on the Golden Gate Bridge.

    Also, Jones' orgasmic sound when she jumps from the Eiffel Tower always makes me giggle.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    edited November 2017 Posts: 1,984
    AVTAK certainly has character. Come to think of it, all of Moore's entries, even the lesser ones like TMWTGG, do. The one that has it in the least quantity is probably FYEO, if anything, which fortunately has a few other things to make up for it but also some glaring deficits. I guess it's shaped by the villain, and Kristatos certainly lacks the ostentatious flavour of most Bond villains. Interestingly enough, Stromberg would be in next in line as the weakest villain of the Moore era. Yet TSWLM and FYEO are widely considered to be Moore's best.

    FYEO has slipped considerably in my rankings, though, or rather other films have just gone up past it. It's down to 12 or 13 on my list now.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,583
    FYEO is pretty low either 23 or 24. It's like dry toast, yeah I'll eat it if I'm hungry but I need some jelly or butter
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,569
    FYEO was the first one I ever saw. It has always been in the top half for me. I'll throw in a little controversy and state that I love the whole score, Rage's song, post-disco and all.
  • FYEO is pretty low either 23 or 24. It's like dry toast, yeah I'll eat it if I'm hungry but I need some jelly or butter

    Yeah I'm not a fan either. It's just so forgettable, and the whole "down to earth, back to basics" angle is undermined by the slapstick cringey moments. I do like a lot of the action (especially the climbing bit), Bond and Melina's dynamic, and the scenes with the smugglers. But overall I don't really see what the fuss is about. I think OP is a lot better, even as a serious/gritty Bond film.

    I was gutted that for the double bill charity showings they did TSWLM/FYEO. Don't get me wrong it was great getting to see them at the cinema but I really wish it'd been TSWLM/OP. I guess it's because all people remember from OP is the clown makeup. If any Bond film deserves a proper reappraisal it's that one.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    edited November 2017 Posts: 1,984
    Yeah I'm not a fan either. It's just so forgettable, and the whole "down to earth, back to basics" angle is undermined by the slapstick cringey moments. I do like a lot of the action (especially the climbing bit), Bond and Melina's dynamic, and the scenes with the smugglers. But overall I don't really see what the fuss is about. I think OP is a lot better, even as a serious/gritty Bond film.

    I was gutted that for the double bill charity showings they did TSWLM/FYEO. Don't get me wrong it was great getting to see them at the cinema but I really wish it'd been TSWLM/OP. I guess it's because all people remember from OP is the clown makeup. If any Bond film deserves a proper reappraisal it's that one.

    Yeah, I'm back to liking OP more again. Sustained intensity (couple of tense spikes), nice balance between gritty reality and humorous fantasy, a plot that's also "grounded and realistic" (unfortunately it's quite underrated) and much more confrontation between Bond and the villains.

    I know Bond only encounters Orlov once in OP but that didn't even happen with Kristatos after he was revealed as the villain. I think he exchanged a few words with Bond on the boat before the keelhauling and that was it. They were within metres of each other at the monastery as well but once again Bond was occupied with other people.

    That was kind of what dragged FYEO down for me on the recent viewing. I can get behind Kristatos' more realistic villain but when he gets completely glossed over the protagonist (twice!) you just know he's not being an effective villain. And that's a great shame as I liked him otherwise (well, apart from the terrible "I will deal with you" line he says to Jacoba Brink). The fault of the script, really.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    The box-office low until LTK was TMWTGG.

    Missed this. From what I can see, TMWTGG made more than OHMSS in terms of inflated gross, and with less of a budget. OHMSS is not surpassed as the lowest gross until AVTAK, which doesn't hold the title for long before LTK snatches it away, and it still holds that title today.
  • Posts: 16,154
    The box-office low until LTK was TMWTGG.


    That's what I always though. Unless history has been revised, I don't really think any of the Bonds prior to LTK's reception in the U.S. actually posed much of a threat to the series' future.

    OHMSS certainly did less than TB or YOLT, and really didn't get the appreciation we have for it now. Even in the '80's it was considered an odd curiosity rather than a masterpiece.

    Post TMWTGG, Eon was ready to carry on with SPY until the situation with Harry occurred, which then delayed production. Still it was a lower than expected box-office, and I can imagine had TSWLM been released, say in December of 1975, it would have been a smaller scale production. Maybe more along the lines of LALD. I do believe Cubby was considering Guy to direct until he got involved with the SUPERMAN film.
  • Posts: 12,466
    I think it's pretty nice that QoS has gotten a small reappraisal from the core fans. It's actually one of my least-watched Bond films, but it has the potential to make a rise or fall with my next Bondathon. It is one that can do really well for me if I'm in the mood, or come off as sort of meh if I'm not in the mood. Honestly there is a lot of good stuff about it though; I have never viewed it as a bottom-tier Bond film.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,253
    FoxRox wrote: »
    I think it's pretty nice that QoS has gotten a small reappraisal from the core fans. It's actually one of my least-watched Bond films, but it has the potential to make a rise or fall with my next Bondathon. It is one that can do really well for me if I'm in the mood, or come off as sort of meh if I'm not in the mood. Honestly there is a lot of good stuff about it though; I have never viewed it as a bottom-tier Bond film.

    It's been in my top ten (for as much as I have one) since I managed to get used to the shakey cam in the beginning. I love it how Bond is dead set on doing his job while everyone else thinks he's preoccupied with Vesper's death.

    As for OP, I love the film itself but I dislike Maud Adams so much it takes me out of the film. She's outshined by everything and everyone, including inane objects. Kristina Wayborn is so much more interesting. It's a pity, with a different actress it could have been so much better, and they could have known as she doesn't do any better in TMWTGG.
  • Posts: 1,917
    As for OP, I love the film itself but I dislike Maud Adams so much it takes me out of the film. She's outshined by everything and everyone, including inane objects. Kristina Wayborn is so much more interesting. It's a pity, with a different actress it could have been so much better, and they could have known as she doesn't do any better in TMWTGG.

    I think Adams is Moore's best Bond woman chemistry-wise, possibly because she's at least in the ballpark as far as age goes. No, she isn't a great actress, but which of the other leads were?

    Wayborn's Magda is more interesting, true, and obviously attractive, but as an actress she's not that far off from Talisa Soto. Maybe it's the dubbing in some of the scenes, but many of her line readings are horrid and that distracts me.

    But she and Adams are nice complements to each other and two of the more underrated women in the series.
  • Posts: 19,339
    I love the way she 'eats' Roger's face off in that bed scene in OP..hilarious.
  • I think Anya is Moore's best Bond girl. I like their whole dynamic, I've never found Bach to be as wooden as people make out and I think the drama with Bond killing her boyfriend, the little mention of Tracy and Bond going back for her at the end even after she threatened to kill him all add up and make it seem like there's genuinely something there between them.
  • Posts: 12,466
    My favorite Bond girls for Moore's era are the ones in all my favorite movies of his: Solitaire in LALD, Anya in TSWLM, and Melina in FYEO. If I were to pick just one of these, I would probably choose Melina.
  • Posts: 7,507
    FoxRox wrote: »
    My favorite Bond girls for Moore's era are the ones in all my favorite movies of his: Solitaire in LALD, Anya in TSWLM, and Melina in FYEO. If I were to pick just one of these, I would probably choose Melina.


    I agree. I think Melina is very underrated. Unlike Anya for instance, she actually showcases some ability and character. She does admittedly have one or two unconvincing moments performance vise, but so do most Bond girls to be fair...
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I like pretty much all of Rog's girls. I think he had an excellent dynamic with all of them. Personal favourites are Anya, Melina, Holly, Solitaire and Mary. The only one I question is Stacey, but again as I've said before I just found Moore a bit too old to be credible there.
  • Posts: 7,507
    Creating chemistry with women was never much of a problem for Rog... ;)
  • Solitaire I'm really indifferent towards. She's stunning, and she isn't badly written or badly acted, but she's never stuck out to me as one of the best either. Cool backstory though. And I know she was white in the book but I really do think she should have been played by a black actress like the producers originally wanted.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Solitaire I'm really indifferent towards. She's stunning, and she isn't badly written or badly acted, but she's never stuck out to me as one of the best either. Cool backstory though. And I know she was white in the book but I really do think she should have been played by a black actress like the producers originally wanted.

    I agree,it should have been a black actress,and Solitaire has never appealed to me,quite bland.

  • edited November 2017 Posts: 12,837
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Solitaire I'm really indifferent towards. She's stunning, and she isn't badly written or badly acted, but she's never stuck out to me as one of the best either. Cool backstory though. And I know she was white in the book but I really do think she should have been played by a black actress like the producers originally wanted.

    I agree,it should have been a black actress,and Solitaire has never appealed to me,quite bland.

    Honestly if you cut the boat chase in half, have Solitaire get recaptured on San Monique (cut the airport chase), recast Solitaire with a black actress, made her a bit more interesting and gave it a more exciting/climatic finale then LALD would be top ten for me, maybe even top five.

    I do like it, but it frustrates me because it has so much going for it but a couple of nagging little issues hold it back. It could have easily been a classic with just a little bit of tinkering imo.

    I think it has the best cast of villains in the series, Moore is perfect, the theme song is legendary, it has one of the best stunts, it has the great bit where Bond hang-gliders in while smoking a cigar, the score is great, the hints at the supernatural are really cool and perfectly done, and the whole thing feels really fresh and exciting every time I watch it (well, up until the boat chase maybe). It's a great film. I just think it could have been even better.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    bondjames wrote: »
    I like pretty much all of Rog's girls. I think he had an excellent dynamic with all of them. Personal favourites are Anya, Melina, Holly, Solitaire and Mary. The only one I question is Stacey, but again as I've said before I just found Moore a bit too old to be credible there.

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  • Posts: 16,154
    I think Anya is Moore's best Bond girl. I like their whole dynamic, I've never found Bach to be as wooden as people make out and I think the drama with Bond killing her boyfriend, the little mention of Tracy and Bond going back for her at the end even after she threatened to kill him all add up and make it seem like there's genuinely something there between them.

    I always thought she was great. Cold and aloof, especially during the Mojave Club scenes and gradually warms to Bond's charm. I think they had a great rapport, really. She's definitely one of my favorites.
    bondjames wrote: »
    I like pretty much all of Rog's girls. I think he had an excellent dynamic with all of them. Personal favourites are Anya, Melina, Holly, Solitaire and Mary. The only one I question is Stacey, but again as I've said before I just found Moore a bit too old to be credible there.

    I loved all of Roger's leading ladies. Good chemistry, IMO, despite often a difference in age. To be honest I thought his relationship with Stacey was more convincing than Daniel/Bond's with Swann.
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