Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Posts: 15,115
    bondjames wrote: »
    That big Russian fella in the jail is a hoot.

    Does that guy pip Anya, Bibi and Christmas to worst acting in a Bond film? And in the same film that stars John 'World War III' Terry that's going some.
    bondjames wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    It might also have to do with how much you can identify yourself with a certain actor. If you watch a film just once or twice that won't matter much. But for being in the mood to watch a film regularly you need to have a certain relation to the actor who personifies Bond. I also find Craig's Bond less likeable than the other Bond incarnations. Maybe that is why I prefer watching the older Bond films.
    That's true. In my case, having thought a little more about it since my last post, I think the continuity also gets in the way of enjoying these newer films. With the older ones, you just put them in the player and are whisked away for 2+ hrs of unconnected enjoyment. With the new ones, one prefers to see them in sequence. To some extent that may be why I prefer viewing SF the most (it is still, to my mind at least, unconnected despite the retro garbage).
    I have a friend who hates Vesper as a character. Even If we've basically canonized her already in the Church of Bond.
    What are his/her reasons for this uncharacteristic dislike?

    Well, here's her reasons...

    *Vesper set up as a non-damsel-in-distress but later revealed to be one
    *Commits suicide without facing the consequences
    *She simply manipulates Bond for the whole time
    *Friend does not get the all "I hate you but after almost dying I now love you" bit

    This is fair. I remember there used to be a bit of debate at how the Bond/Vesper love story was undercooked and needed a few more scenes to really sell it.

    And then we got SP and Madeline and the relationship in CR now looks like Romeo and Juliet.

    Well they all look like Romeo & Juliet in comparison of the original play if you think they needed more time to develop @TheWizardOfIce . It took what, a dance and Romeo and Juliet were in love already.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    I think the decision to have Bind and Vesper fall in love at the end of the movie was a poor one, it invites OHMSS comparisons. If they are going to start changing things from the book, just have Bond and Vespie run away together for a romantic weekend, rather than trying to convincingly portray a love story in the last twenty minutes. I also think that instead of the ending we got, Bond should have cottoned on to the fact that someone was following them and said politely "I'll be back in a minute honey!" To Vesper and gone to sort them out himself. A smaller fight scene talks place inside a hotel room, Bond takes out the guys, cleans himself off and goes to the bar for a drink to calm himself. When he returns home Vesper has already done the deed and left the note.

    That way they could have had their cake and eaten it. We get the book ending, but there is the requisite action for a modern climax (and it's not too over the top).
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,114
    I think the decision to have Bind and Vesper fall in love at the end of the movie was a poor one, it invites OHMSS comparisons. If they are going to start changing things from the book, just have Bond and Vespie run away together for a romantic weekend, rather than trying to convincingly portray a love story in the last twenty minutes. I also think that instead of the ending we got, Bond should have cottoned on to the fact that someone was following them and said politely "I'll be back in a minute honey!" To Vesper and gone to sort them out himself. A smaller fight scene talks place inside a hotel room, Bond takes out the guys, cleans himself off and goes to the bar for a drink to calm himself. When he returns home Vesper has already done the deed and left the note.

    That way they could have had their cake and eaten it. We get the book ending, but there is the requisite action for a modern climax (and it's not too over the top).

    I would have preferred it that way too. The finale is a bit too bombastic for the drama it wants to bring.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    That big Russian fella in the jail is a hoot.

    Does that guy pip Anya, Bibi and Christmas to worst acting in a Bond film? And in the same film that stars John 'World War III' Terry that's going some.
    bondjames wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    It might also have to do with how much you can identify yourself with a certain actor. If you watch a film just once or twice that won't matter much. But for being in the mood to watch a film regularly you need to have a certain relation to the actor who personifies Bond. I also find Craig's Bond less likeable than the other Bond incarnations. Maybe that is why I prefer watching the older Bond films.
    That's true. In my case, having thought a little more about it since my last post, I think the continuity also gets in the way of enjoying these newer films. With the older ones, you just put them in the player and are whisked away for 2+ hrs of unconnected enjoyment. With the new ones, one prefers to see them in sequence. To some extent that may be why I prefer viewing SF the most (it is still, to my mind at least, unconnected despite the retro garbage).
    I have a friend who hates Vesper as a character. Even If we've basically canonized her already in the Church of Bond.
    What are his/her reasons for this uncharacteristic dislike?

    Well, here's her reasons...

    *Vesper set up as a non-damsel-in-distress but later revealed to be one
    *Commits suicide without facing the consequences
    *She simply manipulates Bond for the whole time
    *Friend does not get the all "I hate you but after almost dying I now love you" bit

    This is fair. I remember there used to be a bit of debate at how the Bond/Vesper love story was undercooked and needed a few more scenes to really sell it.

    And then we got SP and Madeline and the relationship in CR now looks like Romeo and Juliet.

    Well they all look like Romeo & Juliet in comparison of the original play if you think they needed more time to develop @TheWizardOfIce . It took what, a dance and Romeo and Juliet were in love already.

    Fair point. Just couldn't be arsed to put any thought in so went with Romeo and Juliet as a great love story. On reflection I should've said Attack of the Clones.
  • Posts: 19,339
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Russian accents done in English I can give a pass to. The gangster accents in GF are what get me.

    "Hey, what are you tryin' to pull, Goldfinga?" It's more like Johnny Dangerously than James Bond. It takes me out of it, but it seems like GF gets a pass when comes to things like this.

    Not from me .
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Same here. I can't stand the gangsters.
  • It takes me out of it is a perfect way to describe it. I need another 10 minutes to get back into the film again. Such horrific dialogue and acting.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2018 Posts: 23,883
    I find in general that American accents and mannerisms tend to be exaggerated a bit in some of the earlier Bond films. Almost like how some other series overdo the French accents. Even if the actors are American, they overplay it imho (take Killifer in LTK with his 'old buddy' routine for instance). I wonder if that's intentional.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,114
    bondjames wrote: »
    I find in general that American accents and mannerisms tend to be exaggerated a bit in some of the earlier Bond films. Almost like how some other series overdo the French accents. Even if the actors are American, they overplay it imho (take Killifer in LTK with his 'old buddy' routine for instance). I wonder if that's intentional.

    Absolutely love that character though.

    “Just came by to kiss the bride.” (takes a puff from his cigar)

    I chuckle every time.

    When I later got into Twin Peaks, McGill was one of my favourite characters of that show as well.
  • Posts: 19,339
    He is brilliant in LTK,a real slimeball.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    McGill was certainly a complete scumbag in LTK. His end was quite befitting and appropriate.

    @GoldenGun, I agree he was really good in Twin Peaks as well. I recommend Under Siege 2 for another exaggerated and charismatic performance from him.
  • edited February 2018 Posts: 12,837
    barryt007 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    That big Russian fella in the jail is a hoot.

    Does that guy pip Anya, Bibi and Christmas to worst acting in a Bond film? And in the same film that stars John 'World War III' Terry that's going some.
    He's certainly up there with the worst of the lot. The accent in particular is terrible. Unintentionally hilarious in some ways when perhaps they were instead going for intimidating.

    As mentioned on here before,the guy used to be in a soap opera based in Liverpool called Brookside,hence his accent is basically as Scouse as 'The Beatles' !!

    You might find him on You Tube if you look up Brookside.

    His accent is nearly the same in TLD,talk about bad casting.

    How hard is it to find a big bloke who can do a passable Russian accent?

    To be fair though it's probably Dalton's best fight scene.

    This is what i find incredible Wiz,why do they cast someone from a British soap,in a British film,a BOND film,that people will recognize and laugh at.

    How do these casting directors get away with it..isnt the final cut checked ?

    I know he's barely in it but similarly, I can't take Guy Haines seriously as a Quantum agent now that I've seen him as the dad in Friday Night Dinner (channel 4 sitcom).
    I think the decision to have Bind and Vesper fall in love at the end of the movie was a poor one, it invites OHMSS comparisons. If they are going to start changing things from the book, just have Bond and Vespie run away together for a romantic weekend, rather than trying to convincingly portray a love story in the last twenty minutes. I also think that instead of the ending we got, Bond should have cottoned on to the fact that someone was following them and said politely "I'll be back in a minute honey!" To Vesper and gone to sort them out himself. A smaller fight scene talks place inside a hotel room, Bond takes out the guys, cleans himself off and goes to the bar for a drink to calm himself. When he returns home Vesper has already done the deed and left the note.

    That way they could have had their cake and eaten it. We get the book ending, but there is the requisite action for a modern climax (and it's not too over the top).

    That would have probably pushed CR into the top ten for me. Trim the Miami scenes and get rid of the origin story stuff as well and maybe even top five. I like the film but it does frustrate me. It's way too long and I've always thought making it such a drastic reboot was unnecessary. The book wasn't an origin story.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    For those bemoaning the gangsters in GF - I agree they are terrible. But in fairness they are faithful to Fleming whose own depiction is possibly even more cheesy.
  • Posts: 19,339
    bondjames wrote: »
    McGill was certainly a complete scumbag in LTK. His end was quite befitting and appropriate.

    @GoldenGun, I agree he was really good in Twin Peaks as well. I recommend Under Siege 2 for another exaggerated and charismatic performance from him.

    Aaah of course,Under Siege 2 as well !

  • For those bemoaning the gangsters in GF - I agree they are terrible. But in fairness they are faithful to Fleming whose own depiction is possibly even more cheesy.

    I think the book is really underrated but yeah. I don't know why he kept coming back to the idea of American gangsters (DAF, GF, TSWLM). Part of the reason the books are so great is because he seems to be writing about what he knows a lot of the time.
  • Posts: 17,753
    barryt007 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    That big Russian fella in the jail is a hoot.

    Does that guy pip Anya, Bibi and Christmas to worst acting in a Bond film? And in the same film that stars John 'World War III' Terry that's going some.
    He's certainly up there with the worst of the lot. The accent in particular is terrible. Unintentionally hilarious in some ways when perhaps they were instead going for intimidating.

    As mentioned on here before,the guy used to be in a soap opera based in Liverpool called Brookside,hence his accent is basically as Scouse as 'The Beatles' !!

    You might find him on You Tube if you look up Brookside.

    His accent is nearly the same in TLD,talk about bad casting.

    How hard is it to find a big bloke who can do a passable Russian accent?

    To be fair though it's probably Dalton's best fight scene.

    This is what i find incredible Wiz,why do they cast someone from a British soap,in a British film,a BOND film,that people will recognize and laugh at.

    How do these casting directors get away with it..isnt the final cut checked ?

    I know he's barely in it but similarly, I can't take Guy Haines seriously as a Quantum agent now that I've seen him as the dad in Friday Night Dinner (channel 4 sitcom).

    Hah! Had almost forgot Paul Ritter played one of the Quantum guys! He's a good actor, though. Seen him in more than one drama role.

    tumblr_mdlt7qEErr1qcbzi7.gif
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    So Quantum eat squirrel? Didnt notice that.
  • Posts: 19,339
    So Quantum eat squirrel? Didnt notice that.

    Oh yes....a lovely bit of squirrel.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,114
    barryt007 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    McGill was certainly a complete scumbag in LTK. His end was quite befitting and appropriate.

    @GoldenGun, I agree he was really good in Twin Peaks as well. I recommend Under Siege 2 for another exaggerated and charismatic performance from him.

    Aaah of course,Under Siege 2 as well !

    Are you guys recommending a Seagal film to me? ;)

    Never really liked the first Under Siege though it’s probably his least terrible film.

    For more Ed Killifer however, I’d even sit through a Fast and Furious flick :))
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    McGill was certainly a complete scumbag in LTK. His end was quite befitting and appropriate.

    @GoldenGun, I agree he was really good in Twin Peaks as well. I recommend Under Siege 2 for another exaggerated and charismatic performance from him.

    Aaah of course,Under Siege 2 as well !

    Are you guys recommending a Seagal film to me? ;)

    Never really liked the first Under Siege though it’s probably his least terrible film.

    For more Ed Killifer however, I’d even sit through a Fast and Furious flick :))
    I actually prefer Under Siege 2 to the first one (I'm probably in the minority). It moves faster and has a bit of humour sprinkled throughout along with a bit of cheese. Strictly fun. Also, I'm a sucker for any thriller/actioner set on a train.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    bondjames wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    McGill was certainly a complete scumbag in LTK. His end was quite befitting and appropriate.

    @GoldenGun, I agree he was really good in Twin Peaks as well. I recommend Under Siege 2 for another exaggerated and charismatic performance from him.

    Aaah of course,Under Siege 2 as well !

    Are you guys recommending a Seagal film to me? ;)

    Never really liked the first Under Siege though it’s probably his least terrible film.

    For more Ed Killifer however, I’d even sit through a Fast and Furious flick :))
    I actually prefer Under Siege 2 to the first one (I'm probably in the minority). It moves faster and has a bit of humour sprinkled throughout along with a bit of cheese. Strictly fun. Also, I'm a sucker for any thriller/actioner set on a train.

    No I'm with you there. If you're watching a Segal film you've already given up on quality plot and dramatic heft so I prefer the faster paced Dark Territory to the original which drags a bit for me in places. Both are reasonably competent if naff Die Hard clones.
  • Posts: 15,115
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    That big Russian fella in the jail is a hoot.

    Does that guy pip Anya, Bibi and Christmas to worst acting in a Bond film? And in the same film that stars John 'World War III' Terry that's going some.
    bondjames wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    It might also have to do with how much you can identify yourself with a certain actor. If you watch a film just once or twice that won't matter much. But for being in the mood to watch a film regularly you need to have a certain relation to the actor who personifies Bond. I also find Craig's Bond less likeable than the other Bond incarnations. Maybe that is why I prefer watching the older Bond films.
    That's true. In my case, having thought a little more about it since my last post, I think the continuity also gets in the way of enjoying these newer films. With the older ones, you just put them in the player and are whisked away for 2+ hrs of unconnected enjoyment. With the new ones, one prefers to see them in sequence. To some extent that may be why I prefer viewing SF the most (it is still, to my mind at least, unconnected despite the retro garbage).
    I have a friend who hates Vesper as a character. Even If we've basically canonized her already in the Church of Bond.
    What are his/her reasons for this uncharacteristic dislike?

    Well, here's her reasons...

    *Vesper set up as a non-damsel-in-distress but later revealed to be one
    *Commits suicide without facing the consequences
    *She simply manipulates Bond for the whole time
    *Friend does not get the all "I hate you but after almost dying I now love you" bit

    This is fair. I remember there used to be a bit of debate at how the Bond/Vesper love story was undercooked and needed a few more scenes to really sell it.

    And then we got SP and Madeline and the relationship in CR now looks like Romeo and Juliet.

    Well they all look like Romeo & Juliet in comparison of the original play if you think they needed more time to develop @TheWizardOfIce . It took what, a dance and Romeo and Juliet were in love already.

    Fair point. Just couldn't be arsed to put any thought in so went with Romeo and Juliet as a great love story. On reflection I should've said Attack of the Clones.

    I think it is more or less the case of almost every romance in movies: it's always rushed. In novels it's different, partially because novels are biographical rather than topical (to use Anthony Burgess' expression).
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,290
    barryt007 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    That big Russian fella in the jail is a hoot.

    Does that guy pip Anya, Bibi and Christmas to worst acting in a Bond film? And in the same film that stars John 'World War III' Terry that's going some.
    He's certainly up there with the worst of the lot. The accent in particular is terrible. Unintentionally hilarious in some ways when perhaps they were instead going for intimidating.

    As mentioned on here before,the guy used to be in a soap opera based in Liverpool called Brookside,hence his accent is basically as Scouse as 'The Beatles' !!

    You might find him on You Tube if you look up Brookside.

    His accent is nearly the same in TLD,talk about bad casting.

    How hard is it to find a big bloke who can do a passable Russian accent?

    To be fair though it's probably Dalton's best fight scene.

    This is what i find incredible Wiz,why do they cast someone from a British soap,in a British film,a BOND film,that people will recognize and laugh at.

    How do these casting directors get away with it..isnt the final cut checked ?

    I know he's barely in it but similarly, I can't take Guy Haines seriously as a Quantum agent now that I've seen him as the dad in Friday Night Dinner (channel 4 sitcom).
    I think the decision to have Bind and Vesper fall in love at the end of the movie was a poor one, it invites OHMSS comparisons. If they are going to start changing things from the book, just have Bond and Vespie run away together for a romantic weekend, rather than trying to convincingly portray a love story in the last twenty minutes. I also think that instead of the ending we got, Bond should have cottoned on to the fact that someone was following them and said politely "I'll be back in a minute honey!" To Vesper and gone to sort them out himself. A smaller fight scene talks place inside a hotel room, Bond takes out the guys, cleans himself off and goes to the bar for a drink to calm himself. When he returns home Vesper has already done the deed and left the note.

    That way they could have had their cake and eaten it. We get the book ending, but there is the requisite action for a modern climax (and it's not too over the top).

    That would have probably pushed CR into the top ten for me. Trim the Miami scenes and get rid of the origin story stuff as well and maybe even top five. I like the film but it does frustrate me. It's way too long and I've always thought making it such a drastic reboot was unnecessary. The book wasn't an origin story.

    I think they were afraid of another OHMSS reception: new actor, downer ending. So they reworked the suicide within a more Bond film-like action ending. It doesn't totally work (Vesper's mindset in the elevator is a bit murky--compare to the obvious fear of authority of--and I can't believe I am making this comparison, Cigarette Girl in TWINE).

    But I see why they did the CR ending the way they did.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    echo wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    That big Russian fella in the jail is a hoot.

    Does that guy pip Anya, Bibi and Christmas to worst acting in a Bond film? And in the same film that stars John 'World War III' Terry that's going some.
    He's certainly up there with the worst of the lot. The accent in particular is terrible. Unintentionally hilarious in some ways when perhaps they were instead going for intimidating.

    As mentioned on here before,the guy used to be in a soap opera based in Liverpool called Brookside,hence his accent is basically as Scouse as 'The Beatles' !!

    You might find him on You Tube if you look up Brookside.

    His accent is nearly the same in TLD,talk about bad casting.

    How hard is it to find a big bloke who can do a passable Russian accent?

    To be fair though it's probably Dalton's best fight scene.

    This is what i find incredible Wiz,why do they cast someone from a British soap,in a British film,a BOND film,that people will recognize and laugh at.

    How do these casting directors get away with it..isnt the final cut checked ?

    I know he's barely in it but similarly, I can't take Guy Haines seriously as a Quantum agent now that I've seen him as the dad in Friday Night Dinner (channel 4 sitcom).
    I think the decision to have Bind and Vesper fall in love at the end of the movie was a poor one, it invites OHMSS comparisons. If they are going to start changing things from the book, just have Bond and Vespie run away together for a romantic weekend, rather than trying to convincingly portray a love story in the last twenty minutes. I also think that instead of the ending we got, Bond should have cottoned on to the fact that someone was following them and said politely "I'll be back in a minute honey!" To Vesper and gone to sort them out himself. A smaller fight scene talks place inside a hotel room, Bond takes out the guys, cleans himself off and goes to the bar for a drink to calm himself. When he returns home Vesper has already done the deed and left the note.

    That way they could have had their cake and eaten it. We get the book ending, but there is the requisite action for a modern climax (and it's not too over the top).

    That would have probably pushed CR into the top ten for me. Trim the Miami scenes and get rid of the origin story stuff as well and maybe even top five. I like the film but it does frustrate me. It's way too long and I've always thought making it such a drastic reboot was unnecessary. The book wasn't an origin story.

    I think they were afraid of another OHMSS reception: new actor, downer ending. So they reworked the suicide within a more Bond film-like action ending. It doesn't totally work (Vesper's mindset in the elevator is a bit murky--compare to the obvious fear of authority of--and I can't believe I am making this comparison, Cigarette Girl in TWINE).

    But I see why they did the CR ending the way they did.

    I think it also demonstrates a lack of confidence in the card game scenes. Remember, they had no idea how the audience would react to such a long time spent on a card game, or even how the sequence would look once it was editted together (story boards can only tell you so much). My assumption has always been that the balls out climax was basically insurance for if people found the poker scenes boring, they would still leave the cinema satisfied.

    Its missing that strength of conviction that OHMSS had if you ask me.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    My controversial opinions that will be fine for some, others will continue wanting me tied to a seatless chair...:

    Bashing down some drywall in my basement, starting a home reno, I put in music to join in the task. My choice? DAD...

    For a film I haven't seen in, I'm guessing, well over a decade (if not longer), David Arnold's work is so strong I almost feel like watching DAD again. Almost.

    Lastly, if they brought Arnold back for DC's swan-song, I'd be ecstatic (his music for QoS was magnificent).
  • edited February 2018 Posts: 17,753
    peter wrote: »
    My controversial opinions that will be fine for some, others will continue wanting me tied to a seatless chair...:

    Bashing down some drywall in my basement, starting a home reno, I put in music to join in the task. My choice? DAD...

    For a film I haven't seen in, I'm guessing, well over a decade (if not longer), David Arnold's work is so strong I almost feel like watching DAD again. Almost.

    Lastly, if they brought Arnold back for DC's swan-song, I'd be ecstatic (his music for QoS was magnificent).

    Think Arnold had some sense of entertainment in his soundtracks. I've tried to like the last two soundtracks (I really have!) – but they just don't do it for me. In several scenes I found the music putting me off what's on screen too, which is even worse. With Arnold you knew you'd get some entertaining tunes, something including the theme tune, and the usual Bond theme. Worked every time!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    echo wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    That big Russian fella in the jail is a hoot.

    Does that guy pip Anya, Bibi and Christmas to worst acting in a Bond film? And in the same film that stars John 'World War III' Terry that's going some.
    He's certainly up there with the worst of the lot. The accent in particular is terrible. Unintentionally hilarious in some ways when perhaps they were instead going for intimidating.

    As mentioned on here before,the guy used to be in a soap opera based in Liverpool called Brookside,hence his accent is basically as Scouse as 'The Beatles' !!

    You might find him on You Tube if you look up Brookside.

    His accent is nearly the same in TLD,talk about bad casting.

    How hard is it to find a big bloke who can do a passable Russian accent?

    To be fair though it's probably Dalton's best fight scene.

    This is what i find incredible Wiz,why do they cast someone from a British soap,in a British film,a BOND film,that people will recognize and laugh at.

    How do these casting directors get away with it..isnt the final cut checked ?

    I know he's barely in it but similarly, I can't take Guy Haines seriously as a Quantum agent now that I've seen him as the dad in Friday Night Dinner (channel 4 sitcom).
    I think the decision to have Bind and Vesper fall in love at the end of the movie was a poor one, it invites OHMSS comparisons. If they are going to start changing things from the book, just have Bond and Vespie run away together for a romantic weekend, rather than trying to convincingly portray a love story in the last twenty minutes. I also think that instead of the ending we got, Bond should have cottoned on to the fact that someone was following them and said politely "I'll be back in a minute honey!" To Vesper and gone to sort them out himself. A smaller fight scene talks place inside a hotel room, Bond takes out the guys, cleans himself off and goes to the bar for a drink to calm himself. When he returns home Vesper has already done the deed and left the note.

    That way they could have had their cake and eaten it. We get the book ending, but there is the requisite action for a modern climax (and it's not too over the top).

    That would have probably pushed CR into the top ten for me. Trim the Miami scenes and get rid of the origin story stuff as well and maybe even top five. I like the film but it does frustrate me. It's way too long and I've always thought making it such a drastic reboot was unnecessary. The book wasn't an origin story.

    I think they were afraid of another OHMSS reception: new actor, downer ending. So they reworked the suicide within a more Bond film-like action ending. It doesn't totally work (Vesper's mindset in the elevator is a bit murky--compare to the obvious fear of authority of--and I can't believe I am making this comparison, Cigarette Girl in TWINE).

    But I see why they did the CR ending the way they did.

    I think it also demonstrates a lack of confidence in the card game scenes. Remember, they had no idea how the audience would react to such a long time spent on a card game, or even how the sequence would look once it was editted together (story boards can only tell you so much). My assumption has always been that the balls out climax was basically insurance for if people found the poker scenes boring, they would still leave the cinema satisfied.

    Its missing that strength of conviction that OHMSS had if you ask me.
    You're probably right. I personally really enjoy all of CR up to ball buster. Then it becomes terribly tedious for me to watch. In part, that's why it's a film I hardly revisit, despite ranking it quite high.

    The film really comes alive for me from the train ride to ball beater.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    All the foreigners who work for British intelligence in their own countries are traitors.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,253
    peter wrote: »
    My controversial opinions that will be fine for some, others will continue wanting me tied to a seatless chair...:

    Bashing down some drywall in my basement, starting a home reno, I put in music to join in the task. My choice? DAD...

    For a film I haven't seen in, I'm guessing, well over a decade (if not longer), David Arnold's work is so strong I almost feel like watching DAD again. Almost.

    Lastly, if they brought Arnold back for DC's swan-song, I'd be ecstatic (his music for QoS was magnificent).

    I'm not very fond of his Brosnan-era work (amongst which of course DAD), but from CR on he went a completely different way which I actually love. So yes, bringing him back would be very good. His rendition of the James Bond theme at the end of CR is the best.
  • Posts: 15,115
    I think Dalton comes off as unthreatening and is the least dangerous Bond.
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