Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Posts: 727
    Casino Royale does the smart thing by having no Yank in speaking part.

    But they have the amazing moment where bond gets arrested and 6 American cops have their shotguns pointed at his head at the same time which is maybe the most American thing I’ve ever seen in my life. It’s a cartoon.

    Bond at that moment: "Boy, I'm glad I'm not black right now".
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    =))
  • Posts: 1,917
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I always wondered about what people thought of Dalton. I was born during his tenure. I always thought LTK underperformed due to the lack of marketing along with the other blockbusters that summer and it just couldn't compete. TLD did pretty well. So I wonder if everyone flocked to the cinema to see a new Bond and came out underwhelmed. Hence the drop off in LTK's box office.

    After watching TLD last night, I realized that I would have loved him in a third film. Perhaps a late 1992 release, people may have forgotten about LTK

    It seemed, other than die hard Bond fans, most were sadly indifferent to Tim.
    I'd say LTK under performed for all those reasons. Perhaps a later summer release might have helped, but it most certainly needed a stronger campaign. The television spots were few and far between, there was very little Bond merchandise, only a couple new books, and most magazine coverage focused on BATMAN, INDY 3 and LETHAL WEAPON 2. It was the "summer of sequels", and Bond, just like The Karate Kid and latest Star Trek film was one of those sequels that got buried by the rest of the blockbusters.

    I do think, though by 1991/92 a 3rd film could have gotten things right, though. One of the biggest complaints was that LTK didn't feel like a Bond film. Most thought it steered too far away from what made the cinematic Bond popular.
    Also many griped that the film wasn't fun. Even though LETHAL WEAPON and DIE HARD were more intense, and violent than a typical PG Bond, those films brought a lot of humor, which audiences loved. LTK probably seemed just a bit too dour.

    It could've been interesting to seen LTK with a Christmas release as its only real competition in the action stakes was the Stallone/Kurt Russell flick Tango and Cash, which did pretty good, not stellar.

    The other big films during that time that I recall were Born on the Fourth of July, Driving Miss Daisy, The War of the Roses and National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Casino Royale does the smart thing by having no Yank in speaking part.

    But they have the amazing moment where bond gets arrested and 6 American cops have their shotguns pointed at his head at the same time which is maybe the most American thing I’ve ever seen in my life. It’s a cartoon.

    Bond at that moment: "Boy, I'm glad I'm not black right now".

    OMG that’s insane because I watched CR a few days ago and that’s exactly what I said out loud
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited February 2018 Posts: 7,114
    Strog wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    LTK second half dull? It has the most exciting finish since OHMSS and Glen builds that brilliantly from when Bond puts his plan into place when he plants Sanchez money on Krests boat!

    I'm with you. LTK has one of the best second halves of any Bond film (most usually have stronger first halves it seems like). As a whole, it's one of the most underrated and exciting Bond films.

    Agree entirely. LTK is one of the few Bond films where the climax is also the high point of the film.
    Yes. YOLT maybe. I think there's also a case to be made with FYEO and the climbing sequence. But the high point of LTK is indisputable.

    It's so good and the way it's built up to through the film is perfect. The final showdown in the desert and Bond collapsing exhausted afterwards is my favourite scene of the series.

    Definitely one of my favourite scenes too. Wonderfully acted by Dalton.

    Also, and this might be the right thread for it, I love Pam Bouvier!
  • Posts: 15,115
    Thrasos wrote: »
    I don't want Bond to ever travel to the USA again. Let's drink to that!
    I'm another Yank who agrees. I love my country and feel very patriotic about it, even these days...but compared to other world locales, the U.S. seems "too boring for Bond". Maybe it's partly because it's a relatively young country, and other countries have much more history, are more "lived-in". But I also think there's a larger-than-life quality about so many of the European (and Caribbean and Asian) locales that the Bond films use. Some are more rugged, others softly tropical, others more exotic. I think the U.S. is pretty "medium" stacked up to them. And I'll be having my drink very soon. Probably not a vodka martini, but then again maybe!

    I don't want to see Bond in the US again either, but I'm just wondering if for you and other Americans it's not a bit because it's too familiar a place and not exotic enough?
  • edited February 2018 Posts: 19,339
    I take it with all this negative US location for a Bond film comments,that 007 in New York is a non-starter,chaps ?
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Strog wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    LTK second half dull? It has the most exciting finish since OHMSS and Glen builds that brilliantly from when Bond puts his plan into place when he plants Sanchez money on Krests boat!

    I'm with you. LTK has one of the best second halves of any Bond film (most usually have stronger first halves it seems like). As a whole, it's one of the most underrated and exciting Bond films.

    Agree entirely. LTK is one of the few Bond films where the climax is also the high point of the film.
    Yes. YOLT maybe. I think there's also a case to be made with FYEO and the climbing sequence. But the high point of LTK is indisputable.

    It's so good and the way it's built up to through the film is perfect. The final showdown in the desert and Bond collapsing exhausted afterwards is my favourite scene of the series.

    Definitely one of my favourite scenes too. Wonderfully acted by Dalton.

    Also, and this might be the right thread for it, I love Pam Bouvier!

    Me too GG !!!

  • Posts: 15,115
    I'm all for bringing more Fleming to the movies, but the scenes from 007 in NY would not need to be extensive.
  • Posts: 16,162
    I'd say US locations could work if they weren't cliched and obvious. I think LALD works wonderfully and I never minded the Florida Keys locale in LTK.
    Actually, I'd love to see a return to a more singular locale. I love Jamaica as seen in DN and the Bahamas in TB. YOLT makes me really want to visit Japan, for instance. . Some of the newer films don't spend enough time in one exotic location to give the film that extra atmosphere.
  • Posts: 17,753
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I take it with all this negative US location for a Bond film comments,that 007 in New York is a non-starter,chaps ?
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Strog wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    LTK second half dull? It has the most exciting finish since OHMSS and Glen builds that brilliantly from when Bond puts his plan into place when he plants Sanchez money on Krests boat!

    I'm with you. LTK has one of the best second halves of any Bond film (most usually have stronger first halves it seems like). As a whole, it's one of the most underrated and exciting Bond films.

    Agree entirely. LTK is one of the few Bond films where the climax is also the high point of the film.
    Yes. YOLT maybe. I think there's also a case to be made with FYEO and the climbing sequence. But the high point of LTK is indisputable.

    It's so good and the way it's built up to through the film is perfect. The final showdown in the desert and Bond collapsing exhausted afterwards is my favourite scene of the series.

    Definitely one of my favourite scenes too. Wonderfully acted by Dalton.

    Also, and this might be the right thread for it, I love Pam Bouvier!

    Me too GG !!!

    No arguments, there! :-D
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,114
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I take it with all this negative US location for a Bond film comments,that 007 in New York is a non-starter,chaps ?
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Strog wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    LTK second half dull? It has the most exciting finish since OHMSS and Glen builds that brilliantly from when Bond puts his plan into place when he plants Sanchez money on Krests boat!

    I'm with you. LTK has one of the best second halves of any Bond film (most usually have stronger first halves it seems like). As a whole, it's one of the most underrated and exciting Bond films.

    Agree entirely. LTK is one of the few Bond films where the climax is also the high point of the film.
    Yes. YOLT maybe. I think there's also a case to be made with FYEO and the climbing sequence. But the high point of LTK is indisputable.

    It's so good and the way it's built up to through the film is perfect. The final showdown in the desert and Bond collapsing exhausted afterwards is my favourite scene of the series.

    Definitely one of my favourite scenes too. Wonderfully acted by Dalton.

    Also, and this might be the right thread for it, I love Pam Bouvier!

    Me too GG !!!

    As Zorro would say:

    “FINALLY, we agree on something.” ;)
  • Posts: 19,339
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I take it with all this negative US location for a Bond film comments,that 007 in New York is a non-starter,chaps ?
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Strog wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    LTK second half dull? It has the most exciting finish since OHMSS and Glen builds that brilliantly from when Bond puts his plan into place when he plants Sanchez money on Krests boat!

    I'm with you. LTK has one of the best second halves of any Bond film (most usually have stronger first halves it seems like). As a whole, it's one of the most underrated and exciting Bond films.

    Agree entirely. LTK is one of the few Bond films where the climax is also the high point of the film.
    Yes. YOLT maybe. I think there's also a case to be made with FYEO and the climbing sequence. But the high point of LTK is indisputable.

    It's so good and the way it's built up to through the film is perfect. The final showdown in the desert and Bond collapsing exhausted afterwards is my favourite scene of the series.

    Definitely one of my favourite scenes too. Wonderfully acted by Dalton.

    Also, and this might be the right thread for it, I love Pam Bouvier!

    Me too GG !!!

    As Zorro would say:

    “FINALLY, we agree on something.” ;)

    Haha indeed we do !!

  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited February 2018 Posts: 9,117
    Casino Royale does the smart thing by having no Yank in speaking part.

    Barry Nelson born San Farancisco.

    Orson Welles born Kenosha,WI.

    Jeffrey Wright born Washington DC.

    Is there another version of CR out there I'm unaware of?
    Thrasos wrote: »
    I don't want Bond to ever travel to the USA again. Let's drink to that!
    I'm another Yank who agrees. I love my country and feel very patriotic about it, even these days...but compared to other world locales, the U.S. seems "too boring for Bond". Maybe it's partly because it's a relatively young country, and other countries have much more history, are more "lived-in". But I also think there's a larger-than-life quality about so many of the European (and Caribbean and Asian) locales that the Bond films use. Some are more rugged, others softly tropical, others more exotic. I think the U.S. is pretty "medium" stacked up to them. And I'll be having my drink very soon. Probably not a vodka martini, but then again maybe!

    Again not wanting to have a go at Yanks and America particularly but America just lacks a bit of the class and mystique of Europe I'm afraid.

    Istanbul, Venice, East Berlin, Vienna, Lake Garda, the Alps - these are Bondian locations.

    Maybe it's something to do with the snootiness you get in Europe that doesn't exist as much in America? If you turn up at the average Bond location in jeans and trainers in Europe they wouldn't let you in (and a bloody good thing too) whereas I don't get the impression anyone makes such a big deal of such things stateside.

    I remember going to Raffles in Singapore. I was gratified to see the hefty doorman (think Gobinda) quietly but firmly put his arm across the door as two yank backpackers tried to gain entry to the billiard bar then wave me through (obviously I was playing the colonial British overlord to the hilt and was dressed up like the man from Del Monte). That's the difference and that's what I want from a Bond location; a sense, as Basil Fawlty himself said, of 'turning away some of the riffraff'.

    Mind you it's the same with Top Gear (proper Top Gear I mean not the multiethnic bullshit that's back on Sunday), I never get the same sense of romance and adventure when they drive across the states as I do when they drive across Europe.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2018 Posts: 23,883
    Folks, I understand the comments about how the US has appeared in Bond films to date.

    I still think that one shouldn't necessarily use that as an indicator of how it could appear if done properly. If there's a will, there is ample evidence outside of the Bond universe to show that one could create a suitably lavish and stylish film set in the US. The natural scenery doesn't compare to the old world beauty of Europe or the exoticism of Asia, but there are still ways to make a film look appealing in a larger than life manner fitting for Bond.

    You just need the right director. I guarantee you David Fincher, or anyone with the support of Roger Deakins, would be able to do it with considerable ease.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,114

    Again not wanting to have a go at Yanks and America particularly but America just lacks a bit of the class and mystique of Europe I'm afraid.

    Istanbul, Venice, East Berlin, Vienna, Lake Garda, the Alps - these are Bondian locations.

    Maybe it's something to do with the snootiness you get in Europe that doesn't exist as much in America? If you turn up at the average Bond location in jeans and trainers in Europe they wouldn't let you in (and a bloody good thing too) whereas I don't get the impression anyone makes such a big deal of such things stateside.

    I remember going to Raffles in Singapore. I was gratified to see the hefty doorman (think Gobinda) quietly but firmly put his arm across the door as two yank backpackers tried to gain entry to the billiard bar then wave me through (obviously I was playing the colonial British overlord to the hilt and was dressed up like the man from Del Monte). That's the difference and that's what I want from a Bond location; a sense, as Basil Fawlty himself said, of 'turning away some of the riffraff'.

    Mind you it's the same with Top Gear (proper Top Gear I mean not the multiethnic bullshit that's back on Sunday), I never get the same sense of romance and adventure when they drive across the states as I do when they drive across Europe.

    I agree, the crassy Las Vegas scenes in DAF being the absolute worst in that regard.
  • Posts: 15,115
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I'd say US locations could work if they weren't cliched and obvious. I think LALD works wonderfully and I never minded the Florida Keys locale in LTK.
    Actually, I'd love to see a return to a more singular locale. I love Jamaica as seen in DN and the Bahamas in TB. YOLT makes me really want to visit Japan, for instance. . Some of the newer films don't spend enough time in one exotic location to give the film that extra atmosphere.

    They
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I'd say US locations could work if they weren't cliched and obvious. I think LALD works wonderfully and I never minded the Florida Keys locale in LTK.
    Actually, I'd love to see a return to a more singular locale. I love Jamaica as seen in DN and the Bahamas in TB. YOLT makes me really want to visit Japan, for instance. . Some of the newer films don't spend enough time in one exotic location to give the film that extra atmosphere.

    They could work but for me it's a case of why bother. I agree with @TheWizardOfIce that generally US locations in Bond movies were rather weak overall. We could have a Bond movie that features New York, Washington, Chicago... Or we could have a Bond movie that features Stockholm, Avignon, Bergamo... To name a few off my head. Places we don't see that often.

    And I agree with your second point. I would love to see Bond in one main environment setting for most of the movie.
  • I love America in LTK because it isn't Bondanian but that's the whole point. It's meant to be a bit Miami Vice and I think they do a great job of making it look really seedy.

    That's what I love about LTK. It's basically an 80s action movie/crime thriller where it all seems to be going so well for the villain until a pissed off James Bond (bunking off what the audience would expect to be the film, his mission in Istanbul) storms in, completely out of his usual element and wanted by his own government and goes on a revenge rampage. I wouldn't want every Bond film to be so different but as a one off, it's perfect.
  • edited February 2018 Posts: 17,753
    I'm sure they could find a way to portray the U.S. in a good way (a lot of films have, of course!). The only thing I have against Bond going there, is that you probably have seen whatever location they choose in several films already (think New York for example).

    How often do you see "Old World" places like Italy, Japan, Germany etc. in big film productions outside Bond?
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Ludovico wrote: »
    They could work but for me it's a case of why bother. I agree with @TheWizardOfIce that generally US locations in Bond movies were rather weak overall. We could have a Bond movie that features New York, Washington, Chicago... Or we could have a Bond movie that features Stockholm, Avignon, Bergamo... To name a few off my head. Places we don't see that often.

    You've sold me old son. If those are announced as the locations for B25 I'll be more than satisfied.
  • Casino Royale does the smart thing by having no Yank in speaking part.

    Barry Nelson born San Farancisco.

    Orson Welles born Kenosha,WI.

    Jeffrey Wright born Washington DC.

    Is there another version of CR out there I'm unaware of?
    Thrasos wrote: »
    I don't want Bond to ever travel to the USA again. Let's drink to that!
    I'm another Yank who agrees. I love my country and feel very patriotic about it, even these days...but compared to other world locales, the U.S. seems "too boring for Bond". Maybe it's partly because it's a relatively young country, and other countries have much more history, are more "lived-in". But I also think there's a larger-than-life quality about so many of the European (and Caribbean and Asian) locales that the Bond films use. Some are more rugged, others softly tropical, others more exotic. I think the U.S. is pretty "medium" stacked up to them. And I'll be having my drink very soon. Probably not a vodka martini, but then again maybe!

    Again not wanting to have a go at Yanks and America particularly but America just lacks a bit of the class and mystique of Europe I'm afraid.

    Istanbul, Venice, East Berlin, Vienna, Lake Garda, the Alps - these are Bondian locations.

    Maybe it's something to do with the snootiness you get in Europe that doesn't exist as much in America? If you turn up at the average Bond location in jeans and trainers in Europe they wouldn't let you in (and a bloody good thing too) whereas I don't get the impression anyone makes such a big deal of such things stateside.

    I remember going to Raffles in Singapore. I was gratified to see the hefty doorman (think Gobinda) quietly but firmly put his arm across the door as two yank backpackers tried to gain entry to the billiard bar then wave me through (obviously I was playing the colonial British overlord to the hilt and was dressed up like the man from Del Monte). That's the difference and that's what I want from a Bond location; a sense, as Basil Fawlty himself said, of 'turning away some of the riffraff'.

    Mind you it's the same with Top Gear (proper Top Gear I mean not the multiethnic bullshit that's back on Sunday), I never get the same sense of romance and adventure when they drive across the states as I do when they drive across Europe.

    Very very spot on!
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    I love America in LTK because it isn't Bondanian but that's the whole point. It's meant to be a bit Miami Vice and I think they do a great job of making it look really seedy.

    That's what I love about LTK. It's basically an 80s action movie/crime thriller where it all seems to be going so well for the villain until a pissed off James Bond (bunking off what the audience would expect to be the film, his mission in Istanbul) storms in, completely out of his usual element and wanted by his own government and goes on a revenge rampage. I wouldn't want every Bond film to be so different but as a one off, it's perfect.

    Couldn't have said it better myself.
  • Posts: 15,115
    Regardless of the qualities of LTK, that was maybe the most toxic Bond film to give to Dalton for his second outing. I think it sealed his fate.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,253
    DAF had all th wrong locales when it comes down to that: Las Vegas was as bad (then already) as Amsterdam. There's little class to both places. And that's the problem: Bond locales need a vibe, a feel of having character, and to my knowledge those places are hard to find in the US. But then again I haven't ben to the north or centre so perhaps (hopefully) I'm mistaken. Still, I'd rather see Bond in Afrika.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,027
    Let's keep in mind that for everyone but the U.S. moviegoers the U.S. was quite an exotic place in the 1960s. Hardly anyone I knew at the time had ever been to the U.S. The U.S. was a land of dreams for many Europeans. When I was 6 and 7 years old, I lived in a town in Hesse with a large U.S. garrison and was amazed by the giant and powerful cars, and the fighter jets which regularly broke the sound barriers on their training flights. When my uncle, in the late 60s, actually flew to the U.S. to visit his daughter, my cousin (who was 25 years older than me and had emigrated in the early fifties) in Pittsburgh, that was a major event. Wow, a close relative flying(!) to the U.S.(!!!). Even when I myself went to the U.S. as an exchange student in 1974 for eleven months, that was quite a pivotal turn in my life and something that set me apart from 90-plus per cent of my classmates.

    What I'm trying to say is that foreign locations are what the audience make of them. Today it's normal or at least within reach to travel just about everywhere. But fifty years ago you could basically come up with any place overseas and it would have been interesting. I found Kentucky (or its Pinewood personality) just as attractive as Jamaica at the time, and wouldn't have passed up Las Vegas as a destination either (which in the meantime I have deliberately avoided on several travels to the U.S.).
  • edited February 2018 Posts: 684
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    Let's keep in mind that for everyone but the U.S. moviegoers the U.S. was quite an exotic place in the 1960s. Hardly anyone I knew at the time had ever been to the U.S. The U.S. was a land of dreams for many Europeans. When I was 6 and 7 years old, I lived in a town in Hesse with a large U.S. garrison and was amazed by the giant and powerful cars, and the fighter jets which regularly broke the sound barriers on their training flights. When my uncle, in the late 60s, actually flew to the U.S. to visit his daughter, my cousin (who was 25 years older than me and had emigrated in the early fifties) in Pittsburgh, that was a major event. Wow, a close relative flying(!) to the U.S.(!!!). Even when I myself went to the U.S. as an exchange student in 1974 for eleven months, that was quite a pivotal turn in my life and something that set me apart from 90-plus per cent of my classmates.

    What I'm trying to say is that foreign locations are what the audience make of them. Today it's normal or at least within reach to travel just about everywhere. But fifty years ago you could basically come up with any place overseas and it would have been interesting. I found Kentucky (or its Pinewood personality) just as attractive as Jamaica at the time, and wouldn't have passed up Las Vegas as a destination either (which in the meantime I have deliberately avoided on several travels to the U.S.).
    Yes, this is true. It is tough to function as a travelogue now since people are much more well-traveled. Or if not that then at least much more exposed to the world through film. Let's not forget that color film and location shooting (let alone shooting on exotic locations) were not a common combination pre-1962. Bond led the way in that department. Now it's commonplace. How many countries can you 'visit' just by flipping through the channels?

    If the 60s films worked back then as travelogues, perhaps over the decades they've shifted to working more in time as well as place? As you say, @j_w_pepper 60s America was an exotic place — what's more, it still is. Over time the location of GF's second half has become specifically 1960s America not just America. While I agree that the Bond films have rarely done the US well, the best of them for me is definitely the Harlem stuff in LALD, and that most definitely works in a large way because of how much of a time capsule it is.
  • edited February 2018 Posts: 727
    As you say, @j_w_pepper 60s America was an exotic place — what's more, it still is.

    Bond: Where is my next mission M?

    M: Oh, a strange land where their leaders can lose by three million votes and still get elected. An exotic place where there is three mass shootings a week but their citizenry have no free access to healthcare. A basket case where a paedophile can mobilise half of the electorate.

    Bond: You are shipping me off to a different planet? Wasn't that one adventure in the 70's sufficient?

    M: Oh no. This place exists.

    Bond: With all due respect sir, that's utterly bonkers. Where in the developing world is this?
  • Posts: 3,333
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Back in 1990, the feeling was that after the disappointing US box office results of LTK, EON really needed to up their game for Tim's 3rd outing.
    I can attest the 11 times I saw LTK in the cinema, the seats were pretty much empty. What few people who were in the auditorium did cheer in several scenes, though. Certainly LTK had the most dismal marketing campaign, and audiences were pretty much luke-warm to Tim's Bond. Most casual fans and movies goers I spoke with almost always said "it still should have been Brosnan", when referring to one of Tim's films.
    So the planned 3rd Dalton really would have needed some clever strategy to get audiences back in.
    Interesting. Can I ask you where you saw LTK? Was it here in the UK or US? I saw it with a large group of friends in London in its first week and it was packed out. Admittedly, unlike TLD, I only watched LTK the once, not being particularly taken by it. All my friends enjoyed it; I was the only one voicing dissent. I thought at the time the higher certification was squandered as I really wanted to see Bond being more badass then what we got. I wanted to see Dalton going more toe-to-toe with his adversaries like we got in the stairwell fight in CR, not fencing with a bloody swordfish. I was also hugely disappointed with the PTS and I didn't care much for Dalton's long hair in the movie either. Seriously, there was a lot I didn't like about LTK: from the music score to the title song and no London M scene to name just a few. However, it was still head and shoulders above AVTAK, which did have the advantage of a decent Bong song and excellent musical score despite it being one of the worst Bond movies, until DAD came along and snatched that accolade. That's the thing with watching some of the Bond movies; you think you're watching a poor entry when a few year's later another release makes you realise that it wasn't so bad.
  • Posts: 15,115
    @bondsum That's pretty much how I felt and still feel about LTK.
  • edited February 2018 Posts: 16,162
    bondsum wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Back in 1990, the feeling was that after the disappointing US box office results of LTK, EON really needed to up their game for Tim's 3rd outing.
    I can attest the 11 times I saw LTK in the cinema, the seats were pretty much empty. What few people who were in the auditorium did cheer in several scenes, though. Certainly LTK had the most dismal marketing campaign, and audiences were pretty much luke-warm to Tim's Bond. Most casual fans and movies goers I spoke with almost always said "it still should have been Brosnan", when referring to one of Tim's films.
    So the planned 3rd Dalton really would have needed some clever strategy to get audiences back in.
    Interesting. Can I ask you where you saw LTK? Was it here in the UK or US? I saw it with a large group of friends in London in its first week and it was packed out. Admittedly, unlike TLD, I only watched LTK the once, not being particularly taken by it. All my friends enjoyed it; I was the only one voicing dissent. I thought at the time the higher certification was squandered as I really wanted to see Bond being more badass then what we got. I wanted to see Dalton going more toe-to-toe with his adversaries like we got in the stairwell fight in CR, not fencing with a bloody swordfish. I was also hugely disappointed with the PTS and I didn't care much for Dalton's long hair in the movie either. Seriously, there was a lot I didn't like about LTK: from the music score to the title song and no London M scene to name just a few. However, it was still head and shoulders above AVTAK, which did have the advantage of a decent Bong song and excellent musical score despite it being one of the worst Bond movies, until DAD came along and snatched that accolade. That's the thing with watching some of the Bond movies; you think you're watching a poor entry when a few year's later another release makes you realise that it wasn't so bad.

    I saw it in the U.S. in two different cinemas. 6 times at one and 5 at the other.
    The first weekend there was an okay, but not overwhelming amount of audience members. You didn't have to worry about anyone with a hat sitting in front of you, or even finding a decent seat.

    I remember there had been a small blackout opening day, and I waited outside the theater prior to the first showing hoping the lights came back on and the attendant would let us in. There were a few people behind me in line, and a couple left to catch it at another cinema. Well, the city got the power back in time for the first 1 pm showing and I sat in the remodeled old school cinema not even bothering to go to the concession stand. The trailer that played was for the animated film All Dogs Go To Heaven. I've never seen that film and to this day still remember the music in the trailer.
    Then the abbreviated version of the 1987 UA logo kicked in followed by the gunbarrel. Kamen's intense stretched out chords during the dots I thought was different, but was thrilled to hear the guitar melody make a comeback. I remember noticing the length of Tim's hair changing throughout the movie. Also the print was grainy in many shots. There a reel change during the casino sequence: Pam stacks some chips and it cuts to a close up of Sanchez. At that moment there was a remarkable change in the film stock. Suddenly the colors were more lush and the film looked cleaner. The red in Talisa's dress as the camera pans up really popped.

    I recall audience reactions during LTK as well: they cheered as Bond water skied behind the plane, and when he pops the wheelie with the tanker truck. They laughed at Sanchez's quips, and during the Q scenes.

    My initial reaction was it was great to finally see Felix get the shark treatment from the novels. Tim seemed really focused as thought he were playing Bond's primary objective of revenge in every scene. I loved Carey and Talisa and thought Sanchez was an improvement over Koskov. Benicio del Toro's Dario reminded me of some of the kids in middle school. A real wiesel of a Bond villain. I thought he was GREAT, and cheered when Bond knocks him down at the Barrelhead bar.

    What was missing was a memorable score. As I left TLD, Barry's haunting music during the Afghanistan sequences stayed with me, but here nothing.

    The next day I took my Dad to see it and he loved it. The following week I took my Mom. Although she hated the violence during the mines in AVTAK, this one didn't quite bother her. She thought Carey was a great Bond girl and Tim was her favorite 007 after Sean.


    I probably saw it about once a week until it disappeared from cinemas late September. The matinee I caught on the last Thursday it played, I was the pretty much only one in attendance. I think there might have been one homeless guy in the back row using the film to get a couple hours sleep.
    I loved LTK, and began saving up the money for the rather expensive $89.99 to purchase the film on VHS upon it's release the following January. Much like TLD, I'd probably watch it every other week until 1991 (when I was anticipating B17).
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    When LTK came out, I didn t enjoy it quite as much as TLD. Now I think they are equally good, and just outside my top ten.
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