Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,177
    I don't know how controversial this will be in this forum but with the Oscars about to happen, I have this to say.

    Who can take the Academy seriously when over the span of 24 (I'm being generous now) Bond films full of record-breaking stunts, sets of unmatched quality, amazing cinematography and innovative everything, only four (!) statues were ever won and the most recent of those feels more like a concession than anything else. What's more, not a single one of John Barry's epic Bond scores like GF, YOLT, OHMSS, MR, ... was even nominated!

    LALALAND won 6 Oscars for doing what had been done countless times before but with the added spice of celebrating Hollywood in its golden years as well. Now, I have nothing against LALALAND; I'm just a trifle frustrated that the Academy has continuously chosen to neglect the unparalleled technical and artistic brilliance that's prevalent in the Bond series.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,114
    I suppose Laz’ simular comment before OHMSS was released had
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I don't know how controversial this will be in this forum but with the Oscars about to happen, I have this to say.

    Who can take the Academy seriously when over the span of 24 (I'm being generous now) Bond films full of record-breaking stunts, sets of unmatched quality, amazing cinematography and innovative everything, only four (!) statues were ever won and the most recent of those feels more like a concession than anything else. What's more, not a single one of John Barry's epic Bond scores like GF, YOLT, OHMSS, MR, ... was even nominated!

    LALALAND won 6 Oscars for doing what had been done countless times before but with the added spice of celebrating Hollywood in its golden years as well. Now, I have nothing against LALALAND; I'm just a trifle frustrated that the Academy has continuously chosen to neglect the unparalleled technical and artistic brilliance that's prevalent in the Bond series.

    I agree.


    The Oscars, of course, aren’t credible for the single reason only English-language films are more or less able to win the bloody thing.

    Even if they go for something different in recent years they came up with La vie en rose and La vita è bella. That’s just not getting it.

    Of course a film like YOLT should have won Best Score, Best Cinematography and Best Production Design, but the fact that it didn’t just proves you don’t have to give a damn anyway.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,584
    The Oscars are a joke. It's more of a political statement than an awards show.
  • Posts: 17,753
    Is it just because it's a action franchise? Bond have never been Oscar bait films, after all.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,114
    Is it just because it's a action franchise? Bond have never been Oscar bait films, after all.

    And when they are, it's not Duran Duran's A View to a Kill or a-ha's The Living Daylights or Tina's GoldenEye that wins but Sam Smith crying.

    Or, as pointed out, TSWLM score gets nominated but none of the John Barry scores. I mean surely OHMSS, YOLT or TLD deserved it more, right?
  • Posts: 16,162
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I don't know how controversial this will be in this forum but with the Oscars about to happen, I have this to say.

    Who can take the Academy seriously when over the span of 24 (I'm being generous now) Bond films full of record-breaking stunts, sets of unmatched quality, amazing cinematography and innovative everything, only four (!) statues were ever won and the most recent of those feels more like a concession than anything else. What's more, not a single one of John Barry's epic Bond scores like GF, YOLT, OHMSS, MR, ... was even nominated!

    LALALAND won 6 Oscars for doing what had been done countless times before but with the added spice of celebrating Hollywood in its golden years as well. Now, I have nothing against LALALAND; I'm just a trifle frustrated that the Academy has continuously chosen to neglect the unparalleled technical and artistic brilliance that's prevalent in the Bond series.

    I couldn't agree more. Any one of Barry's scores should have been nominated. TBH, that Sam Smiths's "Writing's On The Wall" would actually win the Oscar when, for example, 'You Only Live Twice", "All the Time In the World", or "A View To A Kill" was never even nominated signifies the drop in standards for current film scores. I imagine WOTW was the best out of a very unmemorable batch of songs.
    Most music in films today I couldn't hum, whereas "Journey to Blofeld's Hideaway" I instantly recognize.
  • Posts: 1,917
    I've said for many years the best original song category has gotten worse and worse. I challenge most people to recall many of them (WOWT, Skyfall and Let it Go nonwithstanding). It seems like a challenge just to nominate enough to round out the category. It clearly isn't that big a factor in films anymore.

    It was great being young in the '80s when a lot of movies had great soundtracks loaded with pop and rock tunes.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited March 2018 Posts: 13,978
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I don't know how controversial this will be in this forum but with the Oscars about to happen, I have this to say.

    Who can take the Academy seriously when over the span of 24 (I'm being generous now) Bond films full of record-breaking stunts, sets of unmatched quality, amazing cinematography and innovative everything, only four (!) statues were ever won and the most recent of those feels more like a concession than anything else. What's more, not a single one of John Barry's epic Bond scores like GF, YOLT, OHMSS, MR, ... was even nominated!

    LALALAND won 6 Oscars for doing what had been done countless times before but with the added spice of celebrating Hollywood in its golden years as well. Now, I have nothing against LALALAND; I'm just a trifle frustrated that the Academy has continuously chosen to neglect the unparalleled technical and artistic brilliance that's prevalent in the Bond series.

    Don't most of these award shows just boil down to politics in the end? And it only appears to be getting worse. All this hijacking of awards to make a political statement needs to be nipped in the bud.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I sure don t care about the Oscars. Almost as silly as the Nobel Peace Prize.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    The score for skyfall got nominated but not Casino Royale?

    How does CR not get nominated for best director or best actor, it’s a blockbuster franchise film but when talent is there it shouldn’t be ignored.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,787
    Part of the answer is the Oscars represent the Hollywood filmmakers recognizing their own. Very subjective. Not popular thought or based on box office.

    Plus they're usually wrong.
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    edited March 2018 Posts: 732
    The Oscars ... how can one take them any serious when they gave a trophy to Sam Smith for his ... „work“. I would not wonder a bit if those trophys are bought like the stars on the walk of fame.

    Also - I am sure Sylvester Stallone did not get an Oscar just because he played and wrote „Rambo“. He acted wonderful in „Creed“ and would have deserved it - but as said I am sure it was political why he did not receive it.
  • edited March 2018 Posts: 17,753
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Is it just because it's a action franchise? Bond have never been Oscar bait films, after all.

    And when they are, it's not Duran Duran's A View to a Kill or a-ha's The Living Daylights or Tina's GoldenEye that wins but Sam Smith crying.

    Or, as pointed out, TSWLM score gets nominated but none of the John Barry scores. I mean surely OHMSS, YOLT or TLD deserved it more, right?

    Didn't even know the Sam Smith song got nominated! TSWLM nomination I had simply forgot about. Barry not getting nominated for his scores just emphasize how much of a joke the The Oscars is.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Is it just because it's a action franchise? Bond have never been Oscar bait films, after all.

    And when they are, it's not Duran Duran's A View to a Kill or a-ha's The Living Daylights or Tina's GoldenEye that wins but Sam Smith crying.

    Or, as pointed out, TSWLM score gets nominated but none of the John Barry scores. I mean surely OHMSS, YOLT or TLD deserved it more, right?

    Didn't even know the Sam Smith song got nominated! TSWLM nomination I had simply forgot about. Barry not getting nominated for his scores just emphasize how much of a joke the The Oscars is.

    Exactly. The ignoring of Barry and Adam in particular is laughable.

    Not a single nomination for Barry's Bond work? There must have been some staggeringly good scores in 67 and 69.

    Adam just as bad - a solitary nomination for TSWLM?

    I thought it was only recently the Oscars have become a total joke but it seems ''twas ever thus.

    If only they'd been working now where the only requirement is to be black or a woman (or ideally both).
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,290
    The truth is that the Oscars are all about buzz.

    The nominations at the height of Bondmania (GF, TB) make sense, as do the ones at the first critical/commercial rejuvenation (TSWLM, leading to MR and FYEO). Paul McCartney of course is an icon, as was the song.

    And say what you will about Mendes--god knows I do--but the man is Oscar bait.
  • Posts: 15,115
    Is it just because it's a action franchise? Bond have never been Oscar bait films, after all.

    I actually don't consider Bond movies primarily action movies.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    For DC's 50th, I re-watched CR (and re-watched the "4th Act" tonight, which I love, have always loved; if you don't get it, you don't get it...); a controversial opinion on these threads of late, I proudly state that there were two great Bonds:

    Sean

    and

    Dan

    ... have at it, boys (as I never seem to have an argument on this statement with our better halves)
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,177
    Even if some sourpusses at the Academy think less of the Bond culture as a whole than they do of their pet dogs' droppings, there are technical and artistic achievements in the series that even objectively speaking cannot be overlooked. I'm not gunning for best picture and best director and best actor and whatnot, but cinematography, score, song, visual effects, ... have more than once been nothing short of pure genius in the past five and a half decades of Bond. Take Titanic for example. Took home 11 no doubt well deserved statues. One of those was best song. And it was indeed a good song. But if a ballad like "My Heart Will Go On" can win an Oscar, so can YOLT, WHATTITW, NDIB, FYEO, ... If that film wins Best Cinematography, surely at least 5 Bonds should have won in that category too by now. FRWL, GF, OHMSS, SF, SP, ... Maybe my love for Bond is blinding my good sense, but I honestly can't figure out why only 4 statues were ever taken home by the Bonds, when, comparing the films to other winners, it could have been 40 by now.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,253
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Even if some sourpusses at the Academy think less of the Bond culture as a whole than they do of their pet dogs' droppings, there are technical and artistic achievements in the series that even objectively speaking cannot be overlooked. I'm not gunning for best picture and best director and best actor and whatnot, but cinematography, score, song, visual effects, ... have more than once been nothing short of pure genius in the past five and a half decades of Bond. Take Titanic for example. Took home 11 no doubt well deserved statues. One of those was best song. And it was indeed a good song. But if a ballad like "My Heart Will Go On" can win an Oscar, so can YOLT, WHATTITW, NDIB, FYEO, ... If that film wins Best Cinematography, surely at least 5 Bonds should have won in that category too by now. FRWL, GF, OHMSS, SF, SP, ... Maybe my love for Bond is blinding my good sense, but I honestly can't figure out why only 4 statues were ever taken home by the Bonds, when, comparing the films to other winners, it could have been 40 by now.

    Because it's Bond, it's a series and any film which is part of a series falls out anyway. Personally I don't find lalaland a good film at all. I always thought (still think) film is a medium to tell stories, and the oscars wer meant to judge those films on their ability to do so. For that alone CR should've won an oscar. But hell, it's part of a frenchise, so fat chance. It isn't 'artistic' enough for snobs in Hollywood.

    @peter I disagree, there are 6 ;-)
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,177
    Yet Peter Jackson took home a couple Oscars for ROTK which, of course, is a good film.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Even if some sourpusses at the Academy think less of the Bond culture as a whole than they do of their pet dogs' droppings, there are technical and artistic achievements in the series that even objectively speaking cannot be overlooked. I'm not gunning for best picture and best director and best actor and whatnot, but cinematography, score, song, visual effects, ... have more than once been nothing short of pure genius in the past five and a half decades of Bond. Take Titanic for example. Took home 11 no doubt well deserved statues. One of those was best song. And it was indeed a good song. But if a ballad like "My Heart Will Go On" can win an Oscar, so can YOLT, WHATTITW, NDIB, FYEO, ... If that film wins Best Cinematography, surely at least 5 Bonds should have won in that category too by now. FRWL, GF, OHMSS, SF, SP, ... Maybe my love for Bond is blinding my good sense, but I honestly can't figure out why only 4 statues were ever taken home by the Bonds, when, comparing the films to other winners, it could have been 40 by now.

    It's not even the winning it's the lack of nominations.

    Newman gets a nomination for SF but Barry doesn't for any of his Bond scores? I'm sorry but that's taking the piss academy.
  • Posts: 16,162
    I suppose any of us here could name our pick for Barry's least effective Bond score, and I'd still chose it over Newman's SF.
  • Posts: 1,162
    No doubt about it!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    These Oscar people aren't very objective, that's for sure.
  • Posts: 15,115
    The Godfather lost against whatever was nominated at the time. Nuff said.
  • Posts: 1,917
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Is it just because it's a action franchise? Bond have never been Oscar bait films, after all.

    And when they are, it's not Duran Duran's A View to a Kill or a-ha's The Living Daylights or Tina's GoldenEye that wins but Sam Smith crying.

    Or, as pointed out, TSWLM score gets nominated but none of the John Barry scores. I mean surely OHMSS, YOLT or TLD deserved it more, right?

    Didn't even know the Sam Smith song got nominated! TSWLM nomination I had simply forgot about. Barry not getting nominated for his scores just emphasize how much of a joke the The Oscars is.

    Exactly. The ignoring of Barry and Adam in particular is laughable.

    Not a single nomination for Barry's Bond work? There must have been some staggeringly good scores in 67 and 69.

    This got me curious and I went searching. There were actually two sets of nominations back then, one for original score and another adapted for a musical or original musical, so there were even more chances.

    YOLT was beaten in original by Thoroughly Modern Millie, which somehow won, Cool Hand Luke, Dr. Doolittle, Far from the Maddening Crowd and In Cold Blood.

    OHMSS was beaten by Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, which won, Anne of the Thousand Days, The Reivers, The Wild Bunch and The Secret of Santa Vittoria, whatever that is.

    After Barry, my other favorite film composer is Jerry Goldsmith, who got screwed over even more. The man earned 18 Oscar nominations for scores and won just once, deservedly for The Omen, which helped that film immensely. He also never won a Golden Globe nor a Grammy for his scores although several nominations, but had better luck winning Emmys.

    His Planet of the Apes score is one of the most original of all time and frequently on my playlist.

    No question John Williams is one of the greatest, but I'm convinced he gets a nomination each time out due to respect or obligation.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,114
    Good points. I also think Ennio Morricone just won his first Oscar only last year. Another indication they frequently overlook some great work.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    BT3366 wrote: »
    After Barry, my other favorite film composer is Jerry Goldsmith,
    Mine too. Both geniuses at creating suspense effortlessly through their scores.
  • edited March 2018 Posts: 1,469
    BT3366 wrote: »
    After Barry, my other favorite film composer is Jerry Goldsmith, who got screwed over even more.
    Yeah, even as I was reading your post I easily recalled one of the main themes from Patton. My god--then there's Chinatown! L.A. Confidential and other favorites, Oscar-nominated for those but not won.
  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,176
    peter wrote: »
    ... have at it, boys (as I never seem to have an argument on this statement with our better halves)

    Well, I don't really like arguing on the internet, even when it's just for fun.

    So I'm not going to argue, but I am going to register my strong disapproval!
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