Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Posts: 15,116
    Birdleson wrote: »
    @Ludovico here is the thread that sprung out of the comment where I addressed why we don't get the type of adventurous and risk taking films from big studios anymore. I hope it's worth your while.

    https://www.mi6community.com/discussion/10177/movies-of-the-seventies-celluloid-of-the-free-the-tales-that-were-brave/p1

    Thanks will read it when I have time.

    Regarding DAF I am getting baffled. Why go the route of the spoof?
  • Posts: 15,116
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    @Ludovico here is the thread that sprung out of the comment where I addressed why we don't get the type of adventurous and risk taking films from big studios anymore. I hope it's worth your while.

    https://www.mi6community.com/discussion/10177/movies-of-the-seventies-celluloid-of-the-free-the-tales-that-were-brave/p1

    Thanks will read it when I have time.

    Regarding DAF I am getting baffled. Why go the route of the spoof?

    A fearful reaction to the audience's rejection of OHMSS.

    I understand that but didn't have it more to with Lazenby than anything else, as @TheWizardOfIce asked? What if they'd go for a straight vengeance story, in a serious movie, even with Sean Connery on autopilot? I'm not saying something as gloomy and realistic as The French Connection (although Blofeld running away like Charnier would have been interesting), but something more akin in tone to the first two Bond movies with a dash of 70s brutality and violence.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2018 Posts: 23,883
    I don't know about others but I am quite happy that Bond didn't jump on the 70's deep realism conspiracy bandwagon. Looking back in retrospect, there is something larger than life, bizarre and outlandish about the early 70s films (all brought to us courtesy of Hamilton). They seem like deliberate counter-programming and are therefore very unique.

    There is certainly a bit more grit (keeping with the times) than the late 70s Gilbert films (which adopted more of the SW fantasy element) but they also still have an element of the whimsical about them. 'Grounded fantasy' (an admitted oxymoron) in a way.

    I think that quality was synonymous with Bond until the 80s. At that point, I detect a marked change in texture and method. I'm not sure if that's on account of Glen, budget cuts or the lack of Adam, but from the 80s onwards the films are far more 'ordinary', 'regular', and lose that sense of bizarre even though they are more in tune with the times.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,585
    I read the book yesterday when I was at the beach. The movie will always be a favorite of mine but it pales in comparison to the book.
  • Posts: 15,116
    @bondjames I'm not saying it should have been The French Connection. But given that the previous movie was OHMSS I wonder why they didn't make DAF more serious and a straight vengeance story rather than the spoof it was. Not the other Bond movies, just that one. The tone of the movies in that decade makes me think they might have accepted a serious DAF more than we think, as long as Sean Connery was in it. The point of contention im OHMSS was truly George Lazenby when everything is said and done. And Connery really sells the PTS.

    But maybe Bond movies were perceived as self parodies at the time and audiences just wanted this proto Austin Powers.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2018 Posts: 23,883
    Oh, I get what you're saying now @Ludovico. I think it really just comes down to a combination of factors which have already been mentioned by @Strog and @Birdleson. Namely, OHMSS didn't do all that well in the US and they were sort of trying to appeal to that market in a more overt way by bringing in Mankiewicz to work the American angle.

    The final result is almost a light parody with noir elements thrown in. Perhaps they didn't go serious/vengeance because they didn't want that element to overwhelm the narrative going forward, since they knew an inevitable actor changeover was forthcoming shortly with Moore. Cubby/Harry were pretty smart in my view, because they didn't box themselves in, which a revenge angle might have done for a continuing character, even as a one-off. Note that Babs didn't go the revenge route in SP either. Bond spared Blofeld.

    I can only imagine it must have been a stressful time for them as they entered a new decade. The last two films hadn't done as well as TB and the culture was changing rapidly. They decided to take this 'quirky' and colourful approach and it worked, at least from a box office perspective.

    I think we may actually see a similar thing with B25. Expect the unexpected.
  • Posts: 15,116
    I sure hope Bond 25 will not be self parodic or anything like DAF!
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    bondjames wrote: »
    I don't know about others but I am quite happy that Bond didn't jump on the 70's deep realism conspiracy bandwagon. Looking back in retrospect, there is something larger than life, bizarre and outlandish about the early 70s films (all brought to us courtesy of Hamilton). They seem like deliberate counter-programming and are therefore very unique.

    There is certainly a bit more grit (keeping with the times) than the late 70s Gilbert films (which adopted more of the SW fantasy element) but they also still have an element of the whimsical about them. 'Grounded fantasy' (an admitted oxymoron) in a way.

    I think that quality was synonymous with Bond until the 80s. At that point, I detect a marked change in texture and method. I'm not sure if that's on account of Glen, budget cuts or the lack of Adam, but from the 80s onwards the films are far more 'ordinary', 'regular', and lose that sense of bizarre even though they are more in tune with the times.

    We could have had Sean sign off with a deadly serious revenge thriller which put SPECTRE and Blofeld to bed and then carried on with the Rog era just the same as it is. I'm not saying the 70s should be all be sheer grittiness but just give us a worthy follow up and answer the questions raised by Tracy's death.

    But I fear at the time they wanted to reassure the public that OHMSS was a blip and we were back to business as usual so that is why the went in the direction they did. 5 mins of sewing up the Tracy story and then let's bring on the slot machine playing elephants.
  • Posts: 15,116
    That's probably what they thought. What's baffling is that DAF is nothing like even the silliest, lightest of the previous movies.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    But I fear at the time they wanted to reassure the public that OHMSS was a blip and we were back to business as usual so that is why the went in the direction they did. 5 mins of sewing up the Tracy story and then let's bring on the slot machine playing elephants.
    I think that's really all it came down to.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    That's probably what they thought. What's baffling is that DAF is nothing like even the silliest, lightest of the previous movies.
    Not now it isn't, but for it's time it probably was.
  • Posts: 16,162
    Also, the intention with DAF was to try to capture more the feel and tone of GF after the disappointing reaction to OHMSS.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited March 2018 Posts: 7,114
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Also, the intention with DAF was to try to capture more the feel and tone of GF after the disappointing reaction to OHMSS.

    Despite having the whole GF team back together, nothing in DAF really feels remotely like GF.

    GF is all about golf, gold and a DB5. DAF has a pretty crass Las Vegas setting and a red Mustang. That’s practically the opposite ;)

  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    bondjames wrote: »
    I don't know about others but I am quite happy that Bond didn't jump on the 70's deep realism conspiracy bandwagon. Looking back in retrospect, there is something larger than life, bizarre and outlandish about the early 70s films (all brought to us courtesy of Hamilton). They seem like deliberate counter-programming and are therefore very unique.

    There is certainly a bit more grit (keeping with the times) than the late 70s Gilbert films (which adopted more of the SW fantasy element) but they also still have an element of the whimsical about them. 'Grounded fantasy' (an admitted oxymoron) in a way.

    I think that quality was synonymous with Bond until the 80s. At that point, I detect a marked change in texture and method. I'm not sure if that's on account of Glen, budget cuts or the lack of Adam, but from the 80s onwards the films are far more 'ordinary', 'regular', and lose that sense of bizarre even though they are more in tune with the times.

    We could have had Sean sign off with a deadly serious revenge thriller which put SPECTRE and Blofeld to bed and then carried on with the Rog era just the same as it is. I'm not saying the 70s should be all be sheer grittiness but just give us a worthy follow up and answer the questions raised by Tracy's death.

    But I fear at the time they wanted to reassure the public that OHMSS was a blip and we were back to business as usual so that is why the went in the direction they did. 5 mins of sewing up the Tracy story and then let's bring on the slot machine playing elephants.

    I have a very controversial opinion on that and think be careful what you wish for.
    Many people here and elsewhere have already mentioned how much they dislike DAF because the Tracy's death was not even mentioned and that Blofeld was not killed in a satisfying way.

    I am very happy that we did not get any of such things because of the following reasons:

    1) There was no continuity with regard to the actors and hence it would not have worked. It would have been stupid to see Connery's Bond killing Grey's Blofeld by mentioning Tracy's death. Both have never met Tracy.

    2) In fact, there are many continuity issues in most of the Bond films. Why should DAF be different and now care a lot about continuity. Mostly, people claim that Bond films should be standalone adventures.

    3) I guess a "satisfying" revenge plot could have taken away a special aspect of Bond's character. It is nice to have something unfinished which you can make use it every now and then (e.g. in TSWLM). Bond was harmed by the death of his wife and this harm should remain.

    4) People care too much about revenge and that it is the answer to everything. Remember what Bond says in FYEO or how he behaves in the end of QoS.
  • edited March 2018 Posts: 684
    But I fear at the time they wanted to reassure the public that OHMSS was a blip and we were back to business as usual so that is why the went in the direction they did. 5 mins of sewing up the Tracy story and then let's bring on the slot machine playing elephants.
    At the time I'm not sure Cubby/Harry thought of OHMSS as a blip. We do now obviously, in hindsight and for many reasons. But at the time, though the film didn't do as well as YOLT, it did do well. And Cubby/Harry would appear to have been happy with the final product. In the sense that they asked back Hunt. They asked back Lazenby.

    Not that I can imagine Hunt signing off on what DAF eventualy became, but who's to say the gritty revenge thriller would ever have materialized? We could've gotten a 'light' picture anyway. Cubby/Harry could've mandated it. In fact maybe that was one of the reasons Hunt declined.

    I think going in the direction DAF did was actually a really deft move by Cubby/Harry that allowed the franchise to transition to the 70s. It was in danger of coming to an end. Not simply because of Connery leaving or because Lazenby didn't meet expectations, but because Bond had become an establishment figure. That DAF...
    Ludovico wrote: »
    ...is nothing like even the silliest, lightest of the previous movies.
    ...is exactly the thing. DAF is the first time the pretense of seriousness goes away. The 'lightest, silliest' film before it was YOLT, which played things straight. No matter how ridiculous some of it may seem on the other side of Austin Powers.

    Asking the audience to laugh at Bond instead of with him was kind of a way to absolve the films. What would it have meant in 1971 to ask the audience to still be laughing with Bond? Critics were appalled by the sex and violence in DN in 1962. By OHMSS Bond was family entertainment. Was that because the violence in the films became more cartoonish, less consequential? Partly. Then too maybe it was just perceived as being because every night after dinner footage of slain soldiers in Vietnam was pouring into living rooms around the world. If people were appalled at Bond killing Dent in cold blood, what was their reaction not long after when protestors were being teargassed and shot in the streets?

    To do a gritty, violent film in the early 70s would've meant commenting on the violence happening in the news. Bond could've gone this route. But (a) Bond had always aimed at escapism, and (b) I'm not sure inviting the audience to critique the character was the best way of ensuring his survival.

    Of course now Bond tossing Hans into a piranha pool and making a quip after a guy's guts come flying out of snowblower is just a bit of fun. But those were tumultuous times. It'd be no surprise Cubby/Harry would anticipate people questioning the relevancy of a character originally drawn up in the 1950s. We're still doing it now! But DAF was when it started. A film like DAF, where the seriousness was undermined and the franchise pointed and laughed at itself, was just the thing needed to disarm any potential tide rising against it.

    It's also quite clever of Mankiewicz to incorporate and play with a bunch of topical items in alignment with the targeted younger audience's views—i.e. the villain is a well known but invisible corporatist, Bond ruins a fake moon landing, Bond destroys an oil rig in the finale, etc. I believe there was even a scene cut where Tiffany says she's on the pill.

    Anyway, I'm attaching this for relevancy/interest. Found it trying to satisfy my own curiosity on the matter. From the 1 February 1970 New York Times, two months after OHMSS was released:

    https://www.nytimes.com/1970/02/01/archives/movies-what-sex-what-violence-so-what-else-is-new.html
    What Sex! What Violence! So What Else Is New?
    A. Marks

    THOSE of us who spent our most formative years during that decade which we already refer to with nostalgia as the sixties celebrated the New Year by jettisoning all kinds of paraphernalia. We unloaded all the great childhood gadgets and emotional trinkets which couldn't make it into the seventies without showing signs of appalling age.

    Danish modern didn't make it, for instance. The hippie ideal of building a good life in the ghettos didn't make it either. Prop airplanes didn't make it; nor did rail roads or cigarettes or the aspiration of making it and leasing an apartment in a luxury building with a doorman. Also on the list of things we thought we dug but ended up ditching are Brooks Brothers suits, booze, big new cars, haircuts, par lor pianos, opera subscriptions, spin the bottle, etiquette, cocktail parties, foun tain pens, caviar, small talk, neckties, Peggy Lee, white linens, cuff links, corsages, calf‐bound books, Broadway shows, dates, postcards, contraceptives, Monte Carlo, Fort Lauderdale, movie stars, heroes, chicken soup and mamma, buttoned‐down shirts, underwear and James Bond.

    Which brings us to “On Her Majesty's Secret Service” — the sixth and possibly, final installment in the adventures of 007. Do you remember 007? Do you recall May of 1963 when “Dr. No” had lines around the block at your local movie house? And James Bond, played by that rough‐cut sophisticate Sean Cannery — the ultimate kitsch hero who could identify a woman's per fume at 50 feet and knew his caviars and wines from Provence all the way to the Caspian Sea! Wow, the epitome of chic! What every young man wanted to be when he grew up!

    But of course in those days boys didn't grow up; they simply went from Christmas office party to office party. And today many boys don't get a chance to live long enough to grow up. But in 1963 popcorn still cost a dime at the movies and the world was beautiful. Ah, yes, the world of James Bond was the world of the early sixties. There he stood, Brooks Brathered to death in a dark blue serge or getting kinda gamey in a terry‐cloth jump suit. Daredevil gentleman, with expertise in absolutely everything, even a nonchalance which permitted him to seduce superduper double spies on a whim. Ah, the world of 007! Where the enemy was either an exotic samurai with a lethal black derby or six dozen fold‐outs from Playboy magazine. And people always died so beautifully in a James Bond movie. The explosions were the biggest darn explosions we had ever seen. The blood was redder and the sounds of fists in faces were crisper and crunchier than ever.

    Even technology was fun in a Bond movie— the lethal gadgets killed with ultra‐comic book flamboyancy. Death was always so intricate in the world of 007. That astonishing automobile with its deadly cargo of special effects. That attaché case! What magic! What imagination! What spectacle! What violence! What a bore....

    So, while I was standing in line on a recent weekend at the Waverly Theater to see the latest Bond bundle, I noticed that I was not the only die‐hard 007 fan. It was a young crowd which went into the theater smiling and came out looking perplexed. The formula didn't make it any more. And it wasn't merely a question of whether the new Mr. Bond — George Lazenby — was as effective at his bits as Connery had been, or whether the latest Bond thriller was as thrilling as its predecessors. It was essentially a matter of change. But the change was in us and not in 007. Like Superman and all other good super‐heroes, James Bond had not changed. But since 1963, when all of us first caught sight of the dashing Mr. Bond, our heads had gone through more changes than you could shake a joint at. And it was astounding to realize how different.

    I sat there during the movie recalling how incredible the sensation had been during “Dr. No” and “From Russia With Love” and “Goldfinger” and “Thunderball” and “You Only Live Twice.” All that karate and all those bloody noses had really been a thrill. Now, as the en trails of a “nameless” enemy geysered out of a snowplow and Bond quipped, “He sure had a lot of guts,” I was roundly turned off. The fists smashing into faces were grotesque and vicious. The “baseball game” in which bodies were sent flying over a cliff was cruel and humorless.

    Why was I so disturbed by the lavish violence‐which had previously amused me so much? Was it possibly because I had been in Chicago and seen real people and real friends bashed and battered? Was it because I had seen young Bob Kennedy cut down in the pantry of a Los Angeles hotel and the Hell's Angels brutalize a crowd at a rock festival in Altamont, Calif., or because I was desperately sick of the useless obscenity of death in Vietnam? I don't know. I only know that the idea of seeing a Follies of sadism turned me off.

    And what about James the man? Well, he seemed something of a drag. A rather pompous dirty old man who asserts his moribund concept of masculinity by cruising every chick who passes. The covey of allergic ladies In the film comes on as the ultimate male self‐deception. A lady on the hour, every hour, is the phallic fantasy of the middle‐aged man. He's not up to the mere physical labor, let alone possessing the sexual prowess. What Bond used to do as our surrogate adulterer he can't do for us any more. We would rather do it ourselves because we do it so much better. 007 gets zero for sexual conduct. Bond is masculinity according to Madison Avenue.

    Intellectually, he's also fraudulent. Spectre—that diabolical world organization of sin and corruption — seems less corrupt than Bond himself, not to mention his heartless superiors who license 007 to kill. Meanwhile, the enemy is an enigma. We aren't told why we must hate the enemy but only that we must at all costs HATE the enemy. But it doesn't work. We are enlightened young men and women who have learned the importance of knowing the enemy — and we have learned to know him well in real life. In fact, we are downright intellectual about the enemy. And we aren't buying any hate propaganda; so the evil that lurks behind the gullible shadows of childhood doesn't frighten the activist‐oriented kids of the seventies. We don't get our jollies from sitting in dark theaters and hating prescribed enemies.

    Bond Is fighting a shadow in a shadow play. Ultimately it's all fake. However, it is not harmless because it's essentially sadistic and cruel and a last‐ditch expression of that confounded militant egotism which used to be the trademark of the normal middle‐class male.

    Rest in pieces, James Bond. Rest in PIECES!
    Possibly not indicative of common views on Bond at the time, but evidence nevertheless that, maybe for the first time, the question of whether Bond was a man out of his time were being asked.
  • Posts: 3,333
    I think one of the major contributing factors as to why OHMSS might have under-performed, was due to Lazenby announcing before he'd finished the 11 month shoot that he was quitting the role. This was before the movie had even been premiered or been released. Once the public caught wind of the fact that this was to be only a one-off performance, I think their general enthusiasm simply waned. After all, why invest in going to see the new Bond movie if there's no hope of seeing a continuation or another movie with the same actor? But let's be clear here, OHMSS wasn't badly received, nor did it perform badly at the BO. It just wasn't the numbers UA were hoping for. Clearly the producers also felt that their movie was good enough, otherwise they wouldn't have tried to tempt Lazenby back with a $1m contract to do DAF afterwards. As others have pointed out, the tonal shift came about when trying to lure Connery back into the role. He wanted something a bit different to what he'd been playing before.

    As to why UA felt they needed to go down this particular route, they clearly thought it needed to be steered in a new direction for bigger BO receipts. Again, I'm not exactly sure why. Maybe they had one eye on the previous success of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid as a barometer? As others have pointed out, the landscape of 70s cinema was to change dramatically with the release of The French Connection, probably the most influential movie of that decade. But very much like Midnight Cowboy before it, the studios didn't think it was going to be the huge success it turned out being. The popularity of Dirty Harry that very same year would also cement the grittier and more violent trend of movies that some felt started with Bonnie and Clyde in a 1967 and would continue onward, due the more relaxed censorship rules. It does seem odd that during the Sixties, the Bond producers were fighting tooth and nail with the censors over getting a lower classification for their movies, but when things eventually became more relaxed, they decided to go the more campy route and lose their well-fought edginess. Just as a reminder, at one stage TB was in danger of actually receiving an X certificate unless the producers made certain cuts to their movie!!

    Another thing to consider is that movie attendances had been dropping off dramatically by the late 1940s and were in dire straits by the early 1970s. It was only the occasional "event movie" that were drawing the big crowds and keeping some of the major studios afloat. In America, there had already been a huge decline in people going to the movies due to the advent of TV which happened to coincide with the United States Supreme Court antitrust making all the studios give up their own Movie Theatres which they used to use for the purposes of showing their own movies in. With little incentive to feed the new independently owned theatres with new movies they had made, the decline was quick and severe. It was a slump that would not be reversed until 1972, with the release of The Godfather. So part of me understands the need for reinvention during this turbulent period. It's just a shame that the reinvention didn't go a little more grittier, is all.
  • Posts: 15,116
    @GBF there was always some continuity between the early Bond movies though. Among them Bond's previous antagonism with SPECTRE was at least acknowledged. But it's the casual way he talks to Blofeld post PTS that is so infuriating. If there was a Bond movie that needed to acknowledge the previous one it's DAF!
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    Posts: 732
    Very intersting reads here in regards to DAF! I always asked myself, too why they did the campy route - especially before Moore starred as 007. The shift in tone with each actor makes sense to me - but I wondered for some time if DAF was supposed to he a Moore film already until Connery was lured back. But what was written here sounds logical to me
  • edited March 2018 Posts: 684
    bondsum wrote: »
    But let's be clear here, OHMSS wasn't badly received, nor did it perform badly at the BO. It just wasn't the numbers UA were hoping for. Clearly the producers also felt that their movie was good enough, otherwise they wouldn't have tried to tempt Lazenby back with a $1m contract to do DAF afterwards. As others have pointed out, the tonal shift came about when trying to lure Connery back into the role. He wanted something a bit different to what he'd been playing before.
    Agree with you there, @bondsum, re: the producers being content with OHMSS as a Bond film. But I'm curious whether the tonal shift would have come about no matter who directed and starred. Was it more down to Hamilton taking over for Hunt, Lazenby departing, or would it have happened even if both had stayed?

    In this interview Hunt says...
    "At the end of that film, they didn't know what they were going to do, whereas prior to that we had gone on, and on and on. But the team sort of broke up and went on to other things. Then Broccoli asked me to come back for Diamonds Are Forever, but at that time he and Saltzman were fighting and I was involved with something else. I told them that if they moved the production date I might be able to, but they couldn't and so they went with Guy Hamilton...If Lazenby had done Diamonds, then I may have done it, as well as the next two..."

    Not knowing what they were going to do potentially refers to Maibaum's failed revenge draft, which was written before Lazenby quit — but maybe even more importantly before OHMSS was received. From Variety:
    Several treatments and a script were completed while the film was still in post-production.

    “The initial treatments were very much revenge-themed,” said Bond historian Charles Helfenstein, author of “The Making of On Her Majesty’s Secret Service” and “The Making of The Living Daylights.”

    [...]

    “It would have been a true sequel,” Helfenstein said. “Secondary characters like Irma Bunt and Marc Ange Draco would have returned, and it even featured a scene where Bond mourns his murdered wife while Louis Armstrong’s familiar theme plays in the background.”

    Unfortunately, Lazenby’s sudden departure required a complete rewrite.

    [...]

    “But Maibaum’s treatments about a revenge-obsessed Bond didn’t impress Cubby Broccoli and Harry Saltzman.”
    "Unfortunately, Lazenby’s sudden departure required a complete rewrite." — was it his departure though? Because a few paragraphs later we get, "“But Maibaum’s treatments about a revenge-obsessed Bond didn’t impress Cubby Broccoli and Harry Saltzman.”

    I can't find anything as to why it didn't impress them, or why they didn't want to go that direction. I suppose the assumption is that if Laz had stayed they might have been more willing to rework that idea until they liked it? The outside forces I mentioned in a previous post seem to have been at work, though, too.

    So it's interesting to speculate that perhaps Cubby would've wanted Bond to 'get younger' and have hired Mankiewicz anyway, resulting in a Hunt/Laz DAF that still shied away from the original OHMSS post-production plan. Of course I can't see Hunt signing off on the stuff Hamilton did, but I don't think that would have precluded a lighter direction being taken in general.
    bondsum wrote: »
    Just as a reminder, at one stage TB was in danger of actually receiving an X certificate unless the producers made certain cuts to their movie!!
    Thanks for this. I had no idea.
  • Posts: 15,116
    SeanCraig wrote: »
    Very intersting reads here in regards to DAF! I always asked myself, too why they did the campy route - especially before Moore starred as 007. The shift in tone with each actor makes sense to me - but I wondered for some time if DAF was supposed to he a Moore film already until Connery was lured back. But what was written here sounds logical to me

    I think in many ways Sean Connery sold the Moore era with DAF.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    I genuinely think Octopussy is a great Bond film. Guilty pleasure doesn't even come to mind
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    w2bond wrote: »
    I genuinely think Octopussy is a great Bond film. Guilty pleasure doesn't even come to mind
    You're in the wrong thread mate. That's not controversial in the slightest.
  • Posts: 17,753
    w2bond wrote: »
    I genuinely think Octopussy is a great Bond film. Guilty pleasure doesn't even come to mind

    It was my favourite back when I first started with the films. Stayed first a couple of years, I think. Still a top ten!
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,028
    w2bond wrote: »
    I genuinely think Octopussy is a great Bond film. Guilty pleasure doesn't even come to mind
    You're in the wrong thread mate. That's not controversial in the slightest.

    Quite controversial for me. I see OP definitely in the lowest quarter of them all and keep wondering if I don't prefer even AVTAK and DAF in the meantime.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited April 2018 Posts: 9,117
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    w2bond wrote: »
    I genuinely think Octopussy is a great Bond film. Guilty pleasure doesn't even come to mind
    You're in the wrong thread mate. That's not controversial in the slightest.

    Quite controversial for me. I see OP definitely in the lowest quarter of them all and keep wondering if I don't prefer even AVTAK and DAF in the meantime.
    It's everything DAF and AVTAK wish they were.

    Just need to lose the Tarzan roar and the gorilla suit and it's a luscious slice of Roger romp smothered in a indulgently tense Cold War thriller sauce and with an incredible stuntwork cherry on top.

    If you lover Roger in the role you simply have to love OP.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,028
    At any rate, it's hardly non-controversial.
  • Posts: 17,753
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    w2bond wrote: »
    I genuinely think Octopussy is a great Bond film. Guilty pleasure doesn't even come to mind
    You're in the wrong thread mate. That's not controversial in the slightest.

    Quite controversial for me. I see OP definitely in the lowest quarter of them all and keep wondering if I don't prefer even AVTAK and DAF in the meantime.
    It's everything DAF and AVTAK wish they were.

    Just need to lose the Tarzan roar and the gorilla suit and it's a luscious slice of Roger romp smothered in a indulgently tense Cold War thriller sauce and with an incredible stuntwork cherry on top.

    If you lover Roger in the role you simply have to love OP.

    Spot on!
  • Posts: 15,116
    Saying AVTAK is superior would be controversial. I think not many people who like AVTAK would even dare to say it.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    w2bond wrote: »
    I genuinely think Octopussy is a great Bond film. Guilty pleasure doesn't even come to mind
    You're in the wrong thread mate. That's not controversial in the slightest.

    Quite controversial for me. I see OP definitely in the lowest quarter of them all and keep wondering if I don't prefer even AVTAK and DAF in the meantime.
    It's everything DAF and AVTAK wish they were.

    Just need to lose the Tarzan roar and the gorilla suit and it's a luscious slice of Roger romp smothered in a indulgently tense Cold War thriller sauce and with an incredible stuntwork cherry on top.

    If you lover Roger in the role you simply have to love OP.

    I even love the gorilla suit and looking at the time thing. My main complaint is why didn't 009 ditch the balloons before running into the forest?
  • Posts: 1,917

    If you lover Roger in the role you simply have to love OP.

    While I wouldn't say I love Roger in the role, he made it his and was Bond for the duration of my school years and OP is the best showcase of his Bond. It hits all the marks - best fights, humor, seriousness, suave, lover, etc. Maybe not physical peak, but everything else more than overcomes that.

    I thought this 35 years ago when I first saw OP and it holds true in 2018.
  • Posts: 16,162
    OP is in my top 10 Bonds and easily a favorite Roger. Had my folks not taken me to see this fun adventure as a lad, I might not have become the Bond fan I remain today.



    Controversially, I love it's 1983 rival, NSNA just as much.
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