Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    My favourite Arnold score is definitely TND, but QOS comes in second I think.
  • Posts: 12,474
    I think QOS has the best Bond score since OHMSS. That may or may not be controversial.
  • Posts: 17,757
    QoS is the last score I enjoyed. Bond 25 cries for a score just as good, or better.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Not my controversial opinion but my son (a year and a half) thinks the opening credits of CR with YKMN is the coolest thing and he sometimes dances on it.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,400
    Craig's acting in CR is very unnatural and stiff. He didn't relax in the role until QoS.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Not my controversial opinion but my son (a year and a half) thinks the opening credits of CR with YKMN is the coolest thing and he sometimes dances on it.

    I think your son is very educated for his age, and has exquisite taste ;-)
  • Posts: 17,757
    Craig's acting in CR is very unnatural and stiff. He didn't relax in the role until QoS.

    I see it that way with all the Bond actors (Lazenby aside, obviously). Connery better in FRWL, Moore better in TMWTGG, Dalton better in LTK (which for some might be controversial?), Brosnan better in TND, and Craig better in QoS.
  • Posts: 7,653
    FoxRox wrote: »
    I think QOS has the best Bond score since OHMSS. That may or may not be controversial.

    The best since CR absolutely but DA has nothing on any John Barry soundtrack after OHMSS, he showed with CR & QoB that he really cannot create a cohesive soundtrack, I used to call it poor elevator music but that is way to much of a compliment. The re-imagination of 007 music by Arnold or that git after them only illustrates the sheer brilliance of Barry and how tough it is to create a new movie sound for the 007 franchise.

    Let hope we get somebody more talented to have a go with the next movie..
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited May 2018 Posts: 8,400
    Craig's acting in CR is very unnatural and stiff. He didn't relax in the role until QoS.

    I see it that way with all the Bond actors (Lazenby aside, obviously). Connery better in FRWL, Moore better in TMWTGG, Dalton better in LTK (which for some might be controversial?), Brosnan better in TND, and Craig better in QoS.

    That might be true, but in the case of CR all I ever hear is how Craig knocked it out of the park. I hear lots of criticism Brosnan in GE, and some mild complaints about the others. Never Craig, just glowing praise. Which for me is strange because a lot of his deliveries come off as weird. Just one example, when Bond offers solange a lift in the Aston, he glowers at her in a way that seems less seductive and more creepy.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Not my controversial opinion but my son (a year and a half) thinks the opening credits of CR with YKMN is the coolest thing and he sometimes dances on it.

    I think your son is very educated for his age, and has exquisite taste ;-)

    Thanks. So young and already a Bond fan.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    edited May 2018 Posts: 2,730
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Not my controversial opinion but my son (a year and a half) thinks the opening credits of CR with YKMN is the coolest thing and he sometimes dances on it.

    My favorite song as a 4 year old I’m told
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Not my controversial opinion but my son (a year and a half) thinks the opening credits of CR with YKMN is the coolest thing and he sometimes dances on it.

    My favorite song as a 4 year old I’m told

    Holy shit.
  • Posts: 17,757
    Craig's acting in CR is very unnatural and stiff. He didn't relax in the role until QoS.

    I see it that way with all the Bond actors (Lazenby aside, obviously). Connery better in FRWL, Moore better in TMWTGG, Dalton better in LTK (which for some might be controversial?), Brosnan better in TND, and Craig better in QoS.

    That might be true, but in the case of CR all I ever hear is how Craig knocked it out of the park. I hear lots of criticism Brosnan in GE, and some mild complaints about the others. Never Craig, just glowing praise. Which for me is strange because a lot of his deliveries come off as weird. Just one example, when Bond offers solange a lift in the Aston, he glowers at her in a way that seems less seductive and more creepy.

    His performance in CR is good, but he had to grow into the role, just as the other actors. Haven't watched CR in a long time; will look out for that scene the next time!
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    SaintMark wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    I think QOS has the best Bond score since OHMSS. That may or may not be controversial.

    The best since CR absolutely but DA has nothing on any John Barry soundtrack after OHMSS, he showed with CR & QoB that he really cannot create a cohesive soundtrack, I used to call it poor elevator music but that is way to much of a compliment. The re-imagination of 007 music by Arnold or that git after them only illustrates the sheer brilliance of Barry and how tough it is to create a new movie sound for the 007 franchise.

    Let hope we get somebody more talented to have a go with the next movie..

    The LALD score gets better every time I listen to it...
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,890
    w2bond wrote: »
    Not much will much the themes Barry produced (he's dangerous, Bob sled chase) - he left such a mark that all composers will be compared with him. And that is unfair to Arnold for QoS because it matches and surpasses a few Barry efforts, which while brilliant felt repetitive in the later years (ice chase theme).

    Indeed, but I would even add that several of Arnold greatest scores (essentially all of them) are better than Barry's worst. And I personally rate CR higher than all but one Barry effort.
  • AntiLocqueBrakesAntiLocqueBrakes The edge
    edited May 2018 Posts: 538
    Jaws stinks. Could have been so much more. (see comments in Comments Bond as you watch thread).
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    w2bond wrote: »
    Not much will much the themes Barry produced (he's dangerous, Bob sled chase) - he left such a mark that all composers will be compared with him. And that is unfair to Arnold for QoS because it matches and surpasses a few Barry efforts, which while brilliant felt repetitive in the later years (ice chase theme).

    Indeed, but I would even add that several of Arnold greatest scores (essentially all of them) are better than Barry's worst. And I personally rate CR higher than all but one Barry effort.

    I disagree, wouldn’t even say CR is in Arnold’s top 3.

    All of Barry’s scores are miles better than CR in my opinion, as are LALD, TSWLM and GE.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Jaws stinks. Could have been so much more. (see comments in Comments Bond as you watch thread).

    I'd agree with this.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    edited May 2018 Posts: 984
    None of Arnold's are better than any of John Barry's. As for Newman, eesh.

    They need to get somebody new for Bond 25.

    It seems as though the producer's have forgotten how important the incidental music is to Bond. Several of the most iconic scenes in the 60's-80's run are so memorable, in part, because of the score. Take the helicopter ride in OHMSS. Beautiful scenery, but it would be pretty flat if it wasn't for the excellent "Journey to Blofelds hideaway" playing in the background.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited May 2018 Posts: 7,136
    Exactly. Take the space hijacking in YOLT, would not hold up today without Barry’s Capsule in Space.

    As for Arnold though, I do rate TND and QOS highly.

    Newman’s scores are the worst imo.
  • Posts: 1,596
    “Flight into Space” turns Moonraker into a transcendental experience when they’re..well..flying into space. Great point about how large a role the music plays in the films. Can’t be overstated.

    Also, all of Moonraker’s score is outstanding. One of Barry’s best, easily. Is that a controversial opinion?

    Newman’s scores aren’t great. Skyfall’s isn’t terrible. Spectre’s is abysmal. As for Arnold, I liked him a lot when I was younger, but nowadays I can only really get into TND and QoS (the latter of which is the only score of his that I’d rank close to some of Barry’s lesser scores).
  • Posts: 7,434
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Exactly. Take the space hijacking in YOLT, would not hold up today without Barry’s Capsule in Space.

    As for Arnold though, I do rate TND and QOS highly.

    Newman’s scores are the worst imo.

    I would say Eric Serra's score for GE is the worst. Plus that goddawful final song, only rivalled by Madonna as worst ever!
  • Posts: 1,917
    As a standalone listening experience, Serra's GE score is far more interesting than either of Newman's efforts. Not that good, but it has interesting sounds and ideas. That's from long travels listening to these on CD.

    Honestly with Newman and even some Arnold scores I would zone out and not even realize the music was even on, they are that uninvolving. Yes, that counts for the viewing experiences as well.
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 17,757
    I'd rank any Barry score over any other Bond scores, with the exception of George Martin's LALD score, which I find good enough to rival some of Barry's lesser scores (meaning really great scores which suits the films perfectly, but missing that little extra).

    Then comes Hamlisch's TSWLM, any of the Arnold scores (all of which I really like) and Conti's FYEO (my guilty pleasure) - followed by Kamen's LTK and Norman's Dr. No; two scores I can easily listen to, without leaving too much of an impression.

    Serra's GE and Newman's two scores are safely at the bottom. With the exception of a couple tracks, these scores are nothing I'd ever want to hear similar to in a future Bond film.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    I would still say Serra's work in Goldeneye is superior to Newmans. I dont know the name of the tracks, but the music playing over the Casino meeting with Onatopp, the Cuba beach scene and the action theme when Bond and Trevelyan battle at the end are better than anything I heard in SF or SP.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    BT3366 wrote: »
    As a standalone listening experience, Serra's GE score is far more interesting than either of Newman's efforts. Not that good, but it has interesting sounds and ideas. That's from long travels listening to these on CD.

    Honestly with Newman and even some Arnold scores I would zone out and not even realize the music was even on, they are that uninvolving. Yes, that counts for the viewing experiences as well.

    That's the point in a nutshell. He was supposed to make a film experience even more engaging, not a musical experiment.
  • Posts: 1,917
    BT3366 wrote: »
    As a standalone listening experience, Serra's GE score is far more interesting than either of Newman's efforts. Not that good, but it has interesting sounds and ideas. That's from long travels listening to these on CD.

    Honestly with Newman and even some Arnold scores I would zone out and not even realize the music was even on, they are that uninvolving. Yes, that counts for the viewing experiences as well.

    That's the point in a nutshell. He was supposed to make a film experience even more engaging, not a musical experiment.
    Oh I agree completely on GE. They should've paid Barry his worth or at least gotten somebody close for the return of the series after 6 years. But it has grown on me and I can't see that happening with Newman.
  • Posts: 1,596
    I like Serra’s work on GE a lot more than Newman’s banality. Some pieces don’t work at all, but Serra’s score is singular enough that it feels woven with the film in a memorable way. Works with the tone, also. Newman’s music is forgettable, it isn’t tied with the images the way Serra’s does.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2018 Posts: 23,883
    I've never had a problem with any of the 'one-offs'. I think they all brought their own approach and style, and the respective films benefit from their distinct sound in all cases. They give the films in question character. Are they as consistent or melodic as Barry? Not quite, although Martin got close. Still, I'm fine with them, and that includes Serra (perfect for GE) and Newman (perfect for SF).

    I see Newman as a 'one-off' anyway because I have no idea what he was doing with SP. Regurgitated tripe, perhaps fitting for that film.

    The one I have the most trouble with is Mr. Barry-lite himself, David Arnold. Although I like his work on CR & QoS I've never been all that enamoured with his approach. There is a distinct whiff of substandard hackery to me. Unoriginal. Imitative. That's just me though. I realize he has his fans.
  • Posts: 1,596
    @bondjames I don’t HATE Arnold, but I think we’re mostly in agreement. Some of his Barry aping I don’t mind. The echoes of it are nice to hear now and then. But I do agree, QoS notwithstanding.
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