Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Posts: 6,709
    @Torgeirtrap, most of the time TB is my number 1 as well.
  • edited October 2019 Posts: 7,507
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    My controversial opinions on the Bond films:

    - All 3rd acts in Bond films suck.

    I don't agree they all suck, but personally I find the journey getting there is more satisfying than the resolution in the majority of cases. So much is predictable in many of the third acts.

    That's what I thought. Although I agree there are many weak third acts, there are also many that are many that are either great or at least memorable:

    3rd acts I think are excellent:

    FRWL - Truly iconic
    OHMSS - Both thrilling and heartbreaking
    LTK - Contains some simply riveting action

    3rd acts I think are strong or at the very least decent:

    DN - That dinner scene is iconic
    TB - Not everyone's cup of tea, but some of the imagery is legendary
    YOLT - That gorgeous set alone is enough to make it memorable
    FYEO - Opinions are divided on the mountain climbing and storming of the monastery. I love it!
    OP - The reveal of the atomic bomb and air plane action is top notch
    TLD- Contains some excellent action scenes which makes it impossible to overlook
    CR - Feels like the weakest segment thanks to it's drawn out, melodramatic dialogue sequences, but there is still plenty to enjoy here
    QoS - The confrontation with Yossuf is fantastic.
    SF - Yes, I think this is both a riveting and poetic end

    Not so bad after all, I must say.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Minion wrote: »
    Whenever someone calls TSWLM a masterpiece, I just think about the Liparus sequence onward.

    That's the highlight of the film for me.

    Agreed. There’s some great tension in amongst the spectacle.
  • Agreed, and that’s a good observation: for all the kudos it gets for being lean, it feels like it’s trying to balance too many spinning plates in its quest to be about something.

    Interesting point - it feels as though the Mr.White/Guy Haines subplot (orphaned plot thread?) was the more interesting story to tell. Greene ended up being OK, but one wonders if 'Bond on a mission' could have been better delivered.


  • edited October 2019 Posts: 17,756
    Univex wrote: »
    @Torgeirtrap, most of the time TB is my number 1 as well.

    I'm actually a bit surprised it doesn't get more love here on the forum. It's a favourite for some of us, but not necessarily for the majority (?) – despite being very much a definition of "Bondmania" era Bond.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,134
    Univex wrote: »
    @Torgeirtrap, most of the time TB is my number 1 as well.

    I'm actually a bit surprised it doesn't get more love here on the forum. It's a favourite for some of us, but not necessarily for the majority (?) – despite being very much a definition of "Bondmania" era Bond.

    My absolute favourite of the Connery’s. It succesfully mixes the spy mysteries of DN and FRWL with the outlandishness of GF.
  • ThunderballThunderball playing Chemin de Fer in a casino, downing Vespers
    Posts: 814
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    @Torgeirtrap, most of the time TB is my number 1 as well.

    I'm actually a bit surprised it doesn't get more love here on the forum. It's a favourite for some of us, but not necessarily for the majority (?) – despite being very much a definition of "Bondmania" era Bond.

    My absolute favourite of the Connery’s. It succesfully mixes the spy mysteries of DN and FRWL with the outlandishness of GF.

    You nailed it. That's why Thunderball was always my favorite for about 25 years (very recently, I owned up to the fact that I love CR just a bit more). It's the last time Connery was completely tuned in. More than that, he's at his best in TB, at least to me.
  • TB has Fiona Volpe and that alone puts it above most Bond films.
  • edited October 2019 Posts: 17,756
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    @Torgeirtrap, most of the time TB is my number 1 as well.

    I'm actually a bit surprised it doesn't get more love here on the forum. It's a favourite for some of us, but not necessarily for the majority (?) – despite being very much a definition of "Bondmania" era Bond.

    My absolute favourite of the Connery’s. It succesfully mixes the spy mysteries of DN and FRWL with the outlandishness of GF.

    Very much agree with this. The size of the film is also a factor for me. It feels like a big film, with the widescreen Panavision format really highlighting the beautiful location that is the Bahamas.
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    @Torgeirtrap, most of the time TB is my number 1 as well.

    I'm actually a bit surprised it doesn't get more love here on the forum. It's a favourite for some of us, but not necessarily for the majority (?) – despite being very much a definition of "Bondmania" era Bond.

    My absolute favourite of the Connery’s. It succesfully mixes the spy mysteries of DN and FRWL with the outlandishness of GF.

    You nailed it. That's why Thunderball was always my favorite for about 25 years (very recently, I owned up to the fact that I love CR just a bit more). It's the last time Connery was completely tuned in. More than that, he's at his best in TB, at least to me.

    I feel the same way re. Connery in TB. I can see how many feel GF is his best performance, but I place TB above GF performance wise.
    TB has Fiona Volpe and that alone puts it above most Bond films.

    Definitely. She's one of my favourite Bond villains – if not the favourite.
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    Posts: 5,185
    Thunderball is still the most successful film, it sold more Tickets than any other Bond. Rightfully so. Connery was at his best. And so was Terrence who got rid of the camp that started to creep into GF and delivered a gripping and tense Thriller, imho.
  • Posts: 17,756
    00Agent wrote: »
    Thunderball is still the most successful film, it sold more Tickets than any other Bond. Rightfully so. Connery was at his best. And so was Terrence who got rid of the camp that started to creep into GF and delivered a gripping and tense Thriller, imho.

    How well did TB do at the box office in comparison with the other films? Adjusted for inflation and all that, of course.
  • Posts: 7,507
    00Agent wrote: »
    Thunderball is still the most successful film, it sold more Tickets than any other Bond. Rightfully so. Connery was at his best. And so was Terrence who got rid of the camp that started to creep into GF and delivered a gripping and tense Thriller, imho.

    How well did TB do at the box office in comparison with the other films? Adjusted for inflation and all that, of course.

    Before SF it used to be considered the most succesful Bond film ever, if Im not mistaken
  • Posts: 17,756
    jobo wrote: »
    00Agent wrote: »
    Thunderball is still the most successful film, it sold more Tickets than any other Bond. Rightfully so. Connery was at his best. And so was Terrence who got rid of the camp that started to creep into GF and delivered a gripping and tense Thriller, imho.

    How well did TB do at the box office in comparison with the other films? Adjusted for inflation and all that, of course.

    Before SF it used to be considered the most succesful Bond film ever, if Im not mistaken

    Which is now SF? I must admit that box office is something I care very little about, but it's interesting to see which Bond films have been the most successful.
  • Posts: 7,507
    jobo wrote: »
    00Agent wrote: »
    Thunderball is still the most successful film, it sold more Tickets than any other Bond. Rightfully so. Connery was at his best. And so was Terrence who got rid of the camp that started to creep into GF and delivered a gripping and tense Thriller, imho.

    How well did TB do at the box office in comparison with the other films? Adjusted for inflation and all that, of course.

    Before SF it used to be considered the most succesful Bond film ever, if Im not mistaken

    Which is now SF? I must admit that box office is something I care very little about, but it's interesting to see which Bond films have been the most successful.

    It is something I care very little about as well, which is why I can't give you a clear answer ;) But it is one of those two, pretty certain of that.
  • edited October 2019 Posts: 17,756
    jobo wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    00Agent wrote: »
    Thunderball is still the most successful film, it sold more Tickets than any other Bond. Rightfully so. Connery was at his best. And so was Terrence who got rid of the camp that started to creep into GF and delivered a gripping and tense Thriller, imho.

    How well did TB do at the box office in comparison with the other films? Adjusted for inflation and all that, of course.

    Before SF it used to be considered the most succesful Bond film ever, if Im not mistaken

    Which is now SF? I must admit that box office is something I care very little about, but it's interesting to see which Bond films have been the most successful.

    It is something I care very little about as well, which is why I can't give you a clear answer ;) But it is one of those two, pretty certain of that.

    Alright, thanks! SF makes sense for sure given the attention it got in 2012 – and I guess TB being released at the height of "Bondmania" should place it high up on the list of Bond films performing best at the box office.
  • ThunderballThunderball playing Chemin de Fer in a casino, downing Vespers
    edited October 2019 Posts: 814
    TB has Fiona Volpe and that alone puts it above most Bond films.

    Absolutely, she’s one of my very favorite things about TB. To the point where when I read Fleming’s novel I missed her a great deal. Fiona is my favorite henchman if the whole series.
  • Posts: 613
    Here's one ,I just my not be old enough to get it but I think OHMSS has way to high a ranking amongst the hard core fans it has almost ruined it for me , it wins so many elimination games here I actively root for its downfall
  • ThunderballThunderball playing Chemin de Fer in a casino, downing Vespers
    Posts: 814
    tumblr_putd242Upk1xlb6peo7_r1_500.gif

    Well...
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    Here's one ,I just my not be old enough to get it but I think OHMSS has way to high a ranking amongst the hard core fans it has almost ruined it for me , it wins so many elimination games here I actively root for its downfall

    Funnily enough I feel the same about Goldfinger. Often overwhelming positivity or negativity about something sets me up for major disappointment or enjoyment. That's why I don't tend to watch trailers or read reviews before watching something
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    Posts: 5,185
    jobo wrote: »
    00Agent wrote: »
    Thunderball is still the most successful film, it sold more Tickets than any other Bond. Rightfully so. Connery was at his best. And so was Terrence who got rid of the camp that started to creep into GF and delivered a gripping and tense Thriller, imho.

    How well did TB do at the box office in comparison with the other films? Adjusted for inflation and all that, of course.

    Before SF it used to be considered the most succesful Bond film ever, if Im not mistaken

    Which is now SF? I must admit that box office is something I care very little about, but it's interesting to see which Bond films have been the most successful.

    Adjusted for inflation it is still the most successful Bond film in the US (2nd worldwide)
    https://www.007james.com/articles/box_office.php

    As well as 32 on the all time list, next to Black Panther and Dark Knight.
  • Posts: 7,430
    Here's one ,I just my not be old enough to get it but I think OHMSS has way to high a ranking amongst the hard core fans it has almost ruined it for me , it wins so many elimination games here I actively root for its downfall

    Maybe when you get older.
    OHMSS is number 1 for me, and I'm a diehard Dalton fan (Dalton was offered the role then....Man, I would have loved that!)
    OHMSS has everything I want from a Bond movie, good story, great cast, brilliant action and terrific score, plus many Bondian/Fleming moments.
    NTTD will have to be something extra special to knock it off top spot for me!
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    00Agent wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    00Agent wrote: »
    Thunderball is still the most successful film, it sold more Tickets than any other Bond. Rightfully so. Connery was at his best. And so was Terrence who got rid of the camp that started to creep into GF and delivered a gripping and tense Thriller, imho.

    How well did TB do at the box office in comparison with the other films? Adjusted for inflation and all that, of course.

    Before SF it used to be considered the most succesful Bond film ever, if Im not mistaken

    Which is now SF? I must admit that box office is something I care very little about, but it's interesting to see which Bond films have been the most successful.

    Adjusted for inflation it is still the most successful Bond film in the US (2nd worldwide)
    https://www.007james.com/articles/box_office.php

    As well as 32 on the all time list, next to Black Panther and Dark Knight.

    That is very useful but a bit dated, since those parameters refers to the 2011 inflation.

    Adjusting with the current inflation GF breaks the 1 billion dollars mark as well, while SP stands at 4th place with 935,185 millions.
  • edited October 2019 Posts: 17,756
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Here's one ,I just my not be old enough to get it but I think OHMSS has way to high a ranking amongst the hard core fans it has almost ruined it for me , it wins so many elimination games here I actively root for its downfall

    Maybe when you get older.
    OHMSS is number 1 for me, and I'm a diehard Dalton fan (Dalton was offered the role then....Man, I would have loved that!)
    OHMSS has everything I want from a Bond movie, good story, great cast, brilliant action and terrific score, plus many Bondian/Fleming moments.
    NTTD will have to be something extra special to knock it off top spot for me!

    The thing with OHMSS for me is that I still find new stuff to enjoy. It keeps getting better even though I've watched it so many times. It currently battles TB for that #1 spot.
    00Agent wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    00Agent wrote: »
    Thunderball is still the most successful film, it sold more Tickets than any other Bond. Rightfully so. Connery was at his best. And so was Terrence who got rid of the camp that started to creep into GF and delivered a gripping and tense Thriller, imho.

    How well did TB do at the box office in comparison with the other films? Adjusted for inflation and all that, of course.

    Before SF it used to be considered the most succesful Bond film ever, if Im not mistaken

    Which is now SF? I must admit that box office is something I care very little about, but it's interesting to see which Bond films have been the most successful.

    Adjusted for inflation it is still the most successful Bond film in the US (2nd worldwide)
    https://www.007james.com/articles/box_office.php

    As well as 32 on the all time list, next to Black Panther and Dark Knight.

    Thanks, that's really interesting! A sign of the times it was released one would think, as well. Bond was probably at it's most popular in that period.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Thanks, that's really interesting! A sign of the times it was released one would think, as well. Bond was probably at it's most popular in that period.

    It was. On the other hand, the Craig era has been established super popular as well, slightly behind the Connery archetype, with the Mendes combo as its box-office highlights.

    Which is curious, given all the negativity that systematically pops up regarding Craig, inhere.
  • edited October 2019 Posts: 17,756
    matt_u wrote: »
    Thanks, that's really interesting! A sign of the times it was released one would think, as well. Bond was probably at it's most popular in that period.

    It was. On the other hand, the Craig era has been established super popular as well, slightly behind the Connery archetype, with the Mendes combo as its box-office highlights.

    Which is curious, given all the negativity that systematically pops up regarding Craig, inhere.

    Indeed, the Craig era has been very popular, and especially with the two Mendes films (SF being the highest performer of the two). Personally I don't understand the draw towards Craig's Bond, but I've settled with not being aligned with the majority in that regard.
  • My controversial opinion is that while Moonraker is pretty obviously a(n inferior) 1 to 1 ripoff of TSWLM, Drax is a far better villain than Stromberg.

    Not because his plan is cleverer or more evil, it's not, it's essentially the same one, but because he manages to have a character other than "evil German man who loves fish".

    He actually interacts with Bond more than twice, for a start. In fact, he engages Bond in dry, witty repartee multiple times throughout the film and Lonsdale's uber-dry delivery meshes very well with Moore's.

    He's also responsible for Corinne's death, which for me, ranks as one of the most horrific scenes (in a good way) ever to appear in one of these films.
  • Posts: 12,473
    My controversial opinion is that while Moonraker is pretty obviously a(n inferior) 1 to 1 ripoff of TSWLM, Drax is a far better villain than Stromberg.

    Not because his plan is cleverer or more evil, it's not, it's essentially the same one, but because he manages to have a character other than "evil German man who loves fish".

    He actually interacts with Bond more than twice, for a start. In fact, he engages Bond in dry, witty repartee multiple times throughout the film and Lonsdale's uber-dry delivery meshes very well with Moore's.

    He's also responsible for Corinne's death, which for me, ranks as one of the most horrific scenes (in a good way) ever to appear in one of these films.

    I have to agree - Drax is better than Stromberg. Neither are top-tier IMO, but I think both are decent.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,264
    FoxRox wrote: »
    My controversial opinion is that while Moonraker is pretty obviously a(n inferior) 1 to 1 ripoff of TSWLM, Drax is a far better villain than Stromberg.

    Not because his plan is cleverer or more evil, it's not, it's essentially the same one, but because he manages to have a character other than "evil German man who loves fish".

    He actually interacts with Bond more than twice, for a start. In fact, he engages Bond in dry, witty repartee multiple times throughout the film and Lonsdale's uber-dry delivery meshes very well with Moore's.

    He's also responsible for Corinne's death, which for me, ranks as one of the most horrific scenes (in a good way) ever to appear in one of these films.

    I have to agree - Drax is better than Stromberg. Neither are top-tier IMO, but I think both are decent.

    I don't know if it's controversial. I've never considered to compare the two, and I can't really make up my mind. Drax does have a stronger 'grandeur' feel to him.
  • Posts: 12,473
    The only main villains in the series I consider to be on the weak side are Blofeld in DAF, Koskov + Whitaker in TLD, Renard in TWINE (if you count it as him; it’s about shared with Elektra, who is much better), Gustav Graves in DAD, and Blofeld in SP. As for the rest, some are stronger than others, but I enjoy them all.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,040
    My controversial opinion is that while Moonraker is pretty obviously a(n inferior) 1 to 1 ripoff of TSWLM, Drax is a far better villain than Stromberg.

    For me, that isn't controversial at all. Hugo Drax simply has the best lines (of a villain) ever in the franchise, at least since Gert Fröbe's Goldfinger. That MR is a remake of TSWLM is obvious...but then, it is also obvious that TSWLM is a remake of YOLT...and all three of them with the same director. While I think that Curd Jürgens was a great actor, his role in TSWLM never allowed him to prove it. Stromberg is simply a cliché Bond villain, and I'm sure most people have never realised that he supposedly has "webbed" hands to connect him with his deep-sea obsession - which is why he refuses to shake hands (fins?). I'm at the point right now where I question if MR is really inferior to TSWLM and I'm not so sure about it any more. But either way, Drax beats Stromberg either way.

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