Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Posts: 7,507
    cwl007 wrote: »
    I remember seeing an interview with Pierce Brosnan in 2002 for the BAFTA 40th anniversary show. It was just before DAD came out and he was asked by Michael Parkinson how you made a good Bond film. Literally the first thing Brosnan said was and I quote " you take a director like Lee Tamahori"...
    Bless him. I don't believe for a second he meant that, he was just doing his job as a good current employee of EON with a film to promote. Lee Tamahori, for me, is the exact reason the film was as disappointing as it was/is. I really do think there is a great film hidden in there somewhere and we'd have got it with a more grounded director. Of courseI know a film is a huge collaborative effort so I shouldn't blame just one person. However Tamahori was a massive influence on the film we got, I feel about him the same as I do about Schumacher after Batman and Robin. Very misguided people with a lack of respect for the subject's legacy.

    Just go and see the films Tamahori made before Bond and you'll appreaciate Brosnan's comments far better. How Tamahori got so unhinged on Bond will probably always be a mistery.

    I suppose he simply didn't understand Bond and got hooked up in all the talk about the "anniversary Bond film" and the "Bond of the new millenium". He felt he had to deliver something epic and modern, and for him that was sci-fi style gadgets and CGI. I don't blame him for feeling the pressure to be honest, and I think he has been singled out a bit too much as a scape goat. He is not alone in making those bad decisions, and the job of the producers (who should understand Bond...) is to be allert when things are getting out of hand.
  • Posts: 15,123
    jobo wrote: »
    cwl007 wrote: »
    I remember seeing an interview with Pierce Brosnan in 2002 for the BAFTA 40th anniversary show. It was just before DAD came out and he was asked by Michael Parkinson how you made a good Bond film. Literally the first thing Brosnan said was and I quote " you take a director like Lee Tamahori"...
    Bless him. I don't believe for a second he meant that, he was just doing his job as a good current employee of EON with a film to promote. Lee Tamahori, for me, is the exact reason the film was as disappointing as it was/is. I really do think there is a great film hidden in there somewhere and we'd have got it with a more grounded director. Of courseI know a film is a huge collaborative effort so I shouldn't blame just one person. However Tamahori was a massive influence on the film we got, I feel about him the same as I do about Schumacher after Batman and Robin. Very misguided people with a lack of respect for the subject's legacy.

    Just go and see the films Tamahori made before Bond and you'll appreaciate Brosnan's comments far better. How Tamahori got so unhinged on Bond will probably always be a mistery.

    I suppose he simply didn't understand Bond and got hooked up in all the talk about the "anniversary Bond film" and the "Bond of the new millenium". He felt he had to deliver something epic and modern, and for him that was sci-fi style gadgets and CGI. I don't blame him for feeling the pressure to be honest, and I think he has been singled out a bit too much as a scape goat. He is not alone in making those bad decisions, and the job of the producers (who should understand Bond...) is to be allert when things are getting out of hand.

    I still blame Tamahori. In the end, it was jus film.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,040
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I still blame Tamahori. In the end, it was jus film.
    I suppose you mean "his" film, and I agree. It's not about blaming him forever or saying he should never direct another movie, but unless the director can claim that the studio screwed up his entire concept and revert to being Alan Smithee, he (occasionally she) is simply responsible for the end product. So the fully deserved criticism that DAD gets is ultimately "directed" (pun intended) at Tamahori. The buck stops there.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,803
    For a Bond film, responsibility lies at the feet of the producers for what made it on screen.

    Reportedly they nixed embracing the code name theory, Tamahori's idea. I don't blame anyone for trying the tsunami parasailing action as a concept, but that should have been left on the cutting room floor. Again, the producers should have stepped in.

  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Birdleson wrote: »
    As a director, Tamahori (Pre-DAD) made my favorite non-Bond film of any Bond director: ONCE WERE WARRIORS. He just wasn't a good fit here.

    It’s a really good film and I remember thinking at the time the hire was an interesting one. It’s a shame as it completely spirals post-credits. I do actually enjoy it for what it is but what we got and what I thought we might get at the time are some distance apart. I believe this was Barbara’s first attempt at the ‘Mendes effect’ and it failed, she got it right with SF.
  • DAD worked great in the cinema. I came out buzzing.

  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,134
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Lately I came to realise I really like the much-maligned Die Another Day. Granted, it's flawed. It has moments of incomprhensible lunacy.
    I'm quite satisfied noting that you realize your sudden love of the worst Bond movie ever qualifies as part of "Controversial opinions about Bond films". My latest attempts at review of DAD (and TWINE) didn't really help propel those two further up from my bottom two rungs of the ladder.

    "Sudden love" might be stretching it. While Dalton is without any doubt my favourite Bond actor, I must admit the later Brosnan films have a special place in my heart. After all it was during those days I became a fan of the series. TWINE has always been a top 10 for me, DAD moved up to top 15 in recent times.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,040
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    While Dalton is without any doubt my favourite Bond actor, I must admit the later Brosnan films have a special place in my heart. After all it was during those days I became a fan of the series.
    Yes, that does play a major role in personal preferences. My rather abundant fondness for LALD has similar reasons.

  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,264
    RC7 wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    As a director, Tamahori (Pre-DAD) made my favorite non-Bond film of any Bond director: ONCE WERE WARRIORS. He just wasn't a good fit here.

    It’s a really good film and I remember thinking at the time the hire was an interesting one. It’s a shame as it completely spirals post-credits. I do actually enjoy it for what it is but what we got and what I thought we might get at the time are some distance apart. I believe this was Barbara’s first attempt at the ‘Mendes effect’ and it failed, she got it right with SF.

    That connected to the fact Brosnan already had stated he wanted a more gritty film.... and it turned out to be DAD. Obviously I don't know what was going on, but somewhere they certainly lost it. And yes Tamahori, as director, is the main culprit, but as @RichardTheBruce said: the producers should've stepped in (as they reportedly have done with Boyle).

  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    edited January 2020 Posts: 5,185
    RC7 wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    As a director, Tamahori (Pre-DAD) made my favorite non-Bond film of any Bond director: ONCE WERE WARRIORS. He just wasn't a good fit here.

    It’s a really good film and I remember thinking at the time the hire was an interesting one. It’s a shame as it completely spirals post-credits. I do actually enjoy it for what it is but what we got and what I thought we might get at the time are some distance apart. I believe this was Barbara’s first attempt at the ‘Mendes effect’ and it failed, she got it right with SF.

    That connected to the fact Brosnan already had stated he wanted a more gritty film.... and it turned out to be DAD. Obviously I don't know what was going on, but somewhere they certainly lost it. And yes Tamahori, as director, is the main culprit, but as @RichardTheBruce said: the producers should've stepped in (as they reportedly have done with Boyle).

    Brosnan said that Tamahori came to him and said he wanted to continue off where he left with GE, meaning more grit. They both Agreed on that.
    And in some aspects they pulled that off, it's my second favorite performance of Pierce.

    But i think Tamahoris biggest miscalculation was the rise of CGI. Yes in some ways he was right that it would become a much bigger part of movie making, but obviously that didn't mean that every movie had to rely on it or that it was a good fit for Bond.
    Personally i love a good chunk of DAD, but somewhere in the Ice Palace things start to get wrong, and for me that movie crashes and burns when we reach the CGI plane. Well, just like the CGI plane.
  • cwl007cwl007 England
    Posts: 611
    I agree that Brosnan's performance is good. In fact I think it's the best thing about the film, he tries his best to pull it together and keep the ludicrousness as 'grounded as possible'.
    My biggest annoyance about Tamahori is that he used (crap) CGI when a proper in camera stunt would have been so much better. "What, we can't really surf a sunami?" Get rid of it then and write something else.
    The quality and history of the stunts in Bond films demand so much better than what DAD offered. Imagine back in the old days, "what's that BJ Worth you think you can jump from a plane and wrestle a parachute from another skydiver? Nah, we're gong to use stop motion animation, it'll look great!!
    This is why I said earlier he lacked respect for the legacy.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    The best thing about DAD is that they didn't use the Blades card game and Gala Brand. These could be perfect for a new actor in B26!
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    echo wrote: »
    The best thing about DAD is that they didn't use the Blades card game and Gala Brand. These could be perfect for a new actor in B26!

    Agreed!
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,634
    In the future of Bond films, I would like to see Felix Leiter from Dynamite Comics get co-adapted. If M, Q and Moneypenny can get more screen time, so can Felix. What better way to do it? Plus, Tiger Tanaka can come back.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,803
    cwl007 wrote: »
    My biggest annoyance about Tamahori is that he used (crap) CGI when a proper in camera stunt would have been so much better. "What, we can't really surf a sunami?" Get rid of it then and write something else.
    The quality and history of the stunts in Bond films demand so much better than what DAD offered. Imagine back in the old days, "what's that BJ Worth you think you can jump from a plane and wrestle a parachute from another skydiver? Nah, we're gong to use stop motion animation, it'll look great!!
    This is why I said earlier he lacked respect for the legacy.
    Damn straight, @cwl007. Right on. It didn't help the real world stunt appeared earlier in the film.
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    miAlrn.gif

  • cwl007cwl007 England
    Posts: 611
    :)) The Snake Pliskin one looks better than the Tsunami scene. Brilliant
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    Dr_Metz wrote: »
    Thank you. I think craig is a good actor and a good bond, but he is no where near daltons level.
    If Craig actually got a decent Bond script, he might actually be quite good. But, as they say, wrong place, wrong time.

    Totally agree with both these points. Craig's tenure as Bond peaked with Casino Royale. While Quantum of Solace has definitely grown on me over time, almost presenting like a modern take on Licence To Kill, it still doesn't beat the "original". Skyfall is average, IMO. The best scene in the entire film is the finale where Bond enters the 'classic' M office. I enjoyed Spectre up until the car chase, but then it really suffers badly, which is putting it mildly.

    Ironically, I watched a video of the Royal Premiere of Licence To Kill this afternoon and hearing Dalton speak about Bond as a character, it's almost like listening to Craig. Dalton states that The Living Daylights was a step towards where he wanted the films to go and LTK was a leap. Similarly, Craig has said that he always had a vision of reinventing the character. Dalton was the original harder edge Bond. It's quite amusing hearing news outlets make it out as though Craig has done something revolutionary. It's so disappointing that Timothy only made TLD and LTK as I can imagine a Goldeneye with him in it would've been incredible.

    Unfortunately, while I like Craig as Bond, I too feel that the writing has let him down since Casino. Hopefully No Time To Die will be a redeeming swansong.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    Octopussy wrote: »
    Dr_Metz wrote: »
    Thank you. I think craig is a good actor and a good bond, but he is no where near daltons level.
    If Craig actually got a decent Bond script, he might actually be quite good. But, as they say, wrong place, wrong time.

    Totally agree with both these points. Craig's tenure as Bond peaked with Casino Royale. While Quantum of Solace has definitely grown on me over time, almost presenting like a modern take on Licence To Kill, it still doesn't beat the "original". Skyfall is average, IMO. The best scene in the entire film is the finale where Bond enters the 'classic' M office. I enjoyed Spectre up until the car chase, but then it really suffers badly, which is putting it mildly.

    Ironically, I watched a video of the Royal Premiere of Licence To Kill this afternoon and hearing Dalton speak about Bond as a character, it's almost like listening to Craig. Dalton states that The Living Daylights was a step towards where he wanted the films to go and LTK was a leap. Similarly, Craig has said that he always had a vision of reinventing the character. Dalton was the original harder edge Bond. It's quite amusing hearing news outlets make it out as though Craig has done something revolutionary. It's so disappointing that Timothy only made TLD and LTK as I can imagine a Goldeneye with him in it would've been incredible.

    Unfortunately, while I like Craig as Bond, I too feel that the writing has let him down since Casino. Hopefully No Time To Die will be a redeeming swansong.
    I remember that quote so vividly, outside the Royal Premier. So, I was a bit shocked when in later years Dalton said that he preferred TLD. I guess he was being paid not just to make the latest Bond, but to properly promote it as well.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    NicNac wrote: »
    Octopussy wrote: »
    Dr_Metz wrote: »
    Thank you. I think craig is a good actor and a good bond, but he is no where near daltons level.
    If Craig actually got a decent Bond script, he might actually be quite good. But, as they say, wrong place, wrong time.

    Totally agree with both these points. Craig's tenure as Bond peaked with Casino Royale. While Quantum of Solace has definitely grown on me over time, almost presenting like a modern take on Licence To Kill, it still doesn't beat the "original". Skyfall is average, IMO. The best scene in the entire film is the finale where Bond enters the 'classic' M office. I enjoyed Spectre up until the car chase, but then it really suffers badly, which is putting it mildly.

    Ironically, I watched a video of the Royal Premiere of Licence To Kill this afternoon and hearing Dalton speak about Bond as a character, it's almost like listening to Craig. Dalton states that The Living Daylights was a step towards where he wanted the films to go and LTK was a leap. Similarly, Craig has said that he always had a vision of reinventing the character. Dalton was the original harder edge Bond. It's quite amusing hearing news outlets make it out as though Craig has done something revolutionary. It's so disappointing that Timothy only made TLD and LTK as I can imagine a Goldeneye with him in it would've been incredible.

    Unfortunately, while I like Craig as Bond, I too feel that the writing has let him down since Casino. Hopefully No Time To Die will be a redeeming swansong.
    I remember that quote so vividly, outside the Royal Premier. So, I was a bit shocked when in later years Dalton said that he preferred TLD. I guess he was being paid not just to make the latest Bond, but to properly promote it as well.

    There was also Carey Lowell stating that she was happy to redefine the 'Bond Girl' and demonstrate that they are strong and powerful. Hmm... sounds familiar? I prefer The Living Daylights personally, but I feel that Licence To Kill was a more refined and clearer vision of where Dalton wanted to take the character, with less trappings of the Moore era.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    Octopussy wrote: »
    Dr_Metz wrote: »
    Thank you. I think craig is a good actor and a good bond, but he is no where near daltons level.
    If Craig actually got a decent Bond script, he might actually be quite good. But, as they say, wrong place, wrong time.

    Totally agree with both these points. Craig's tenure as Bond peaked with Casino Royale. While Quantum of Solace has definitely grown on me over time, almost presenting like a modern take on Licence To Kill, it still doesn't beat the "original". Skyfall is average, IMO. The best scene in the entire film is the finale where Bond enters the 'classic' M office. I enjoyed Spectre up until the car chase, but then it really suffers badly, which is putting it mildly.

    Ironically, I watched a video of the Royal Premiere of Licence To Kill this afternoon and hearing Dalton speak about Bond as a character, it's almost like listening to Craig. Dalton states that The Living Daylights was a step towards where he wanted the films to go and LTK was a leap. Similarly, Craig has said that he always had a vision of reinventing the character. Dalton was the original harder edge Bond. It's quite amusing hearing news outlets make it out as though Craig has done something revolutionary. It's so disappointing that Timothy only made TLD and LTK as I can imagine a Goldeneye with him in it would've been incredible.

    Unfortunately, while I like Craig as Bond, I too feel that the writing has let him down since Casino. Hopefully No Time To Die will be a redeeming swansong.

    Agree with you completely. Particularly on the last statement.

    I think, since Cubby handed over the reigns, Bond has been a decidedly mixed bag.

    A lot of the fans talk about Craig's era as though it's a beacon of quality, but I rank it similarly to Brosnan's. To me they both had one great film (GE, CR) one decent film (TND, SF) and two each that are, to out it bluntly, fair to crap (TWINE, DAD, QOS, SP). I am still hopeful for NTTD, but I don't have anywhere near the confidence in EON that I did under Broccoli senior.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Octopussy wrote: »
    NicNac wrote: »
    Octopussy wrote: »
    Dr_Metz wrote: »
    Thank you. I think craig is a good actor and a good bond, but he is no where near daltons level.
    If Craig actually got a decent Bond script, he might actually be quite good. But, as they say, wrong place, wrong time.

    Totally agree with both these points. Craig's tenure as Bond peaked with Casino Royale. While Quantum of Solace has definitely grown on me over time, almost presenting like a modern take on Licence To Kill, it still doesn't beat the "original". Skyfall is average, IMO. The best scene in the entire film is the finale where Bond enters the 'classic' M office. I enjoyed Spectre up until the car chase, but then it really suffers badly, which is putting it mildly.

    Ironically, I watched a video of the Royal Premiere of Licence To Kill this afternoon and hearing Dalton speak about Bond as a character, it's almost like listening to Craig. Dalton states that The Living Daylights was a step towards where he wanted the films to go and LTK was a leap. Similarly, Craig has said that he always had a vision of reinventing the character. Dalton was the original harder edge Bond. It's quite amusing hearing news outlets make it out as though Craig has done something revolutionary. It's so disappointing that Timothy only made TLD and LTK as I can imagine a Goldeneye with him in it would've been incredible.

    Unfortunately, while I like Craig as Bond, I too feel that the writing has let him down since Casino. Hopefully No Time To Die will be a redeeming swansong.
    I remember that quote so vividly, outside the Royal Premier. So, I was a bit shocked when in later years Dalton said that he preferred TLD. I guess he was being paid not just to make the latest Bond, but to properly promote it as well.

    There was also Carey Lowell stating that she was happy to redefine the 'Bond Girl' and demonstrate that they are strong and powerful. Hmm... sounds familiar? I prefer The Living Daylights personally, but I feel that Licence To Kill was a more refined and clearer vision of where Dalton wanted to take the character, with less trappings of the Moore era.

    Spot on.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Octopussy wrote: »
    Dr_Metz wrote: »
    Thank you. I think craig is a good actor and a good bond, but he is no where near daltons level.
    If Craig actually got a decent Bond script, he might actually be quite good. But, as they say, wrong place, wrong time.

    Totally agree with both these points. Craig's tenure as Bond peaked with Casino Royale. While Quantum of Solace has definitely grown on me over time, almost presenting like a modern take on Licence To Kill, it still doesn't beat the "original". Skyfall is average, IMO. The best scene in the entire film is the finale where Bond enters the 'classic' M office. I enjoyed Spectre up until the car chase, but then it really suffers badly, which is putting it mildly.

    Ironically, I watched a video of the Royal Premiere of Licence To Kill this afternoon and hearing Dalton speak about Bond as a character, it's almost like listening to Craig. Dalton states that The Living Daylights was a step towards where he wanted the films to go and LTK was a leap. Similarly, Craig has said that he always had a vision of reinventing the character. Dalton was the original harder edge Bond. It's quite amusing hearing news outlets make it out as though Craig has done something revolutionary. It's so disappointing that Timothy only made TLD and LTK as I can imagine a Goldeneye with him in it would've been incredible.

    Unfortunately, while I like Craig as Bond, I too feel that the writing has let him down since Casino. Hopefully No Time To Die will be a redeeming swansong.

    Agree with you completely. Particularly on the last statement.

    I think, since Cubby handed over the reigns, Bond has been a decidedly mixed bag.

    A lot of the fans talk about Craig's era as though it's a beacon of quality, but I rank it similarly to Brosnan's. To me they both had one great film (GE, CR) one decent film (TND, SF) and two each that are, to out it bluntly, fair to crap (TWINE, DAD, QOS, SP). I am still hopeful for NTTD, but I don't have anywhere near the confidence in EON that I did under Broccoli senior.

    It is all about opinion though. I mean IMHO CR is greater than GE, SF is more decent than TND, QoS is better than TWINE and SP is better than DAD - if truth be told.

    I feel on this forum that a controversial opinion is to rate SF as highly as I do.
    It's my favourite Craig film, well paced, superbly acted by one and all, and highly entertaining. I've never once been anything but entertained by it.

    Another controversial opinion - I think LTK is the worst Bond film of them all.

  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,006
    NicNac wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Octopussy wrote: »
    Dr_Metz wrote: »
    Thank you. I think craig is a good actor and a good bond, but he is no where near daltons level.
    If Craig actually got a decent Bond script, he might actually be quite good. But, as they say, wrong place, wrong time.

    Totally agree with both these points. Craig's tenure as Bond peaked with Casino Royale. While Quantum of Solace has definitely grown on me over time, almost presenting like a modern take on Licence To Kill, it still doesn't beat the "original". Skyfall is average, IMO. The best scene in the entire film is the finale where Bond enters the 'classic' M office. I enjoyed Spectre up until the car chase, but then it really suffers badly, which is putting it mildly.

    Ironically, I watched a video of the Royal Premiere of Licence To Kill this afternoon and hearing Dalton speak about Bond as a character, it's almost like listening to Craig. Dalton states that The Living Daylights was a step towards where he wanted the films to go and LTK was a leap. Similarly, Craig has said that he always had a vision of reinventing the character. Dalton was the original harder edge Bond. It's quite amusing hearing news outlets make it out as though Craig has done something revolutionary. It's so disappointing that Timothy only made TLD and LTK as I can imagine a Goldeneye with him in it would've been incredible.

    Unfortunately, while I like Craig as Bond, I too feel that the writing has let him down since Casino. Hopefully No Time To Die will be a redeeming swansong.

    Agree with you completely. Particularly on the last statement.

    I think, since Cubby handed over the reigns, Bond has been a decidedly mixed bag.

    A lot of the fans talk about Craig's era as though it's a beacon of quality, but I rank it similarly to Brosnan's. To me they both had one great film (GE, CR) one decent film (TND, SF) and two each that are, to out it bluntly, fair to crap (TWINE, DAD, QOS, SP). I am still hopeful for NTTD, but I don't have anywhere near the confidence in EON that I did under Broccoli senior.

    It is all about opinion though. I mean IMHO CR is greater than GE, SF is more decent than TND, QoS is better than TWINE and SP is better than DAD - if truth be told.

    I feel on this forum that a controversial opinion is to rate SF as highly as I do.
    It's my favourite Craig film, well paced, superbly acted by one and all, and highly entertaining. I've never once been anything but entertained by it.

    Another controversial opinion - I think LTK is the worst Bond film of them all.

    LTK is middle tier for me, and it has crept up in my rankings recently.

    Why do you think its the worst Bond film @NicNac ?
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    NicNac wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Octopussy wrote: »
    Dr_Metz wrote: »
    Thank you. I think craig is a good actor and a good bond, but he is no where near daltons level.
    If Craig actually got a decent Bond script, he might actually be quite good. But, as they say, wrong place, wrong time.

    Totally agree with both these points. Craig's tenure as Bond peaked with Casino Royale. While Quantum of Solace has definitely grown on me over time, almost presenting like a modern take on Licence To Kill, it still doesn't beat the "original". Skyfall is average, IMO. The best scene in the entire film is the finale where Bond enters the 'classic' M office. I enjoyed Spectre up until the car chase, but then it really suffers badly, which is putting it mildly.

    Ironically, I watched a video of the Royal Premiere of Licence To Kill this afternoon and hearing Dalton speak about Bond as a character, it's almost like listening to Craig. Dalton states that The Living Daylights was a step towards where he wanted the films to go and LTK was a leap. Similarly, Craig has said that he always had a vision of reinventing the character. Dalton was the original harder edge Bond. It's quite amusing hearing news outlets make it out as though Craig has done something revolutionary. It's so disappointing that Timothy only made TLD and LTK as I can imagine a Goldeneye with him in it would've been incredible.

    Unfortunately, while I like Craig as Bond, I too feel that the writing has let him down since Casino. Hopefully No Time To Die will be a redeeming swansong.

    Agree with you completely. Particularly on the last statement.

    I think, since Cubby handed over the reigns, Bond has been a decidedly mixed bag.

    A lot of the fans talk about Craig's era as though it's a beacon of quality, but I rank it similarly to Brosnan's. To me they both had one great film (GE, CR) one decent film (TND, SF) and two each that are, to out it bluntly, fair to crap (TWINE, DAD, QOS, SP). I am still hopeful for NTTD, but I don't have anywhere near the confidence in EON that I did under Broccoli senior.

    It is all about opinion though. I mean IMHO CR is greater than GE, SF is more decent than TND, QoS is better than TWINE and SP is better than DAD - if truth be told.

    I feel on this forum that a controversial opinion is to rate SF as highly as I do.
    It's my favourite Craig film, well paced, superbly acted by one and all, and highly entertaining. I've never once been anything but entertained by it.

    Another controversial opinion - I think LTK is the worst Bond film of them all.

    LTK is middle tier for me, and it has crept up in my rankings recently.

    Why do you think its the worst Bond film @NicNac ?

    Well, I have never been a Dalton fan. He was quite good in TLD, but I don't like his performance at all in LTK (apart from isolated moments).
    The film features the weakest M, the worst Moneypenny and the most irritating Bond girl in Talisa Soto.
    I find the film far too grim with exploding heads, hearts being cut out and a young bride being murdered (and possibly raped) on her wedding day. That isn't what Bond is about, and it all leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
    Bond tracking down Sanchez, one of the most powerful man in South America and infiltrating his complex and tightly guarded empire with such ease (the Chinese agents had spent years trying to get in) within a couple of days is a trifle jaw dropping. Not to mention the way this naturally suspicious and untrusting villain was hanging on Bond's every word about who was betraying him.

    I liked
    Robert Davi
    Benicio del Toro
    In fact all the villains down to and including Wayne Newton were excellent.

    I also liked the tanker chase.

    Most of the rest I have struggled with.


  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,006
    NicNac wrote: »
    NicNac wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Octopussy wrote: »
    Dr_Metz wrote: »
    Thank you. I think craig is a good actor and a good bond, but he is no where near daltons level.
    If Craig actually got a decent Bond script, he might actually be quite good. But, as they say, wrong place, wrong time.

    Totally agree with both these points. Craig's tenure as Bond peaked with Casino Royale. While Quantum of Solace has definitely grown on me over time, almost presenting like a modern take on Licence To Kill, it still doesn't beat the "original". Skyfall is average, IMO. The best scene in the entire film is the finale where Bond enters the 'classic' M office. I enjoyed Spectre up until the car chase, but then it really suffers badly, which is putting it mildly.

    Ironically, I watched a video of the Royal Premiere of Licence To Kill this afternoon and hearing Dalton speak about Bond as a character, it's almost like listening to Craig. Dalton states that The Living Daylights was a step towards where he wanted the films to go and LTK was a leap. Similarly, Craig has said that he always had a vision of reinventing the character. Dalton was the original harder edge Bond. It's quite amusing hearing news outlets make it out as though Craig has done something revolutionary. It's so disappointing that Timothy only made TLD and LTK as I can imagine a Goldeneye with him in it would've been incredible.

    Unfortunately, while I like Craig as Bond, I too feel that the writing has let him down since Casino. Hopefully No Time To Die will be a redeeming swansong.

    Agree with you completely. Particularly on the last statement.

    I think, since Cubby handed over the reigns, Bond has been a decidedly mixed bag.

    A lot of the fans talk about Craig's era as though it's a beacon of quality, but I rank it similarly to Brosnan's. To me they both had one great film (GE, CR) one decent film (TND, SF) and two each that are, to out it bluntly, fair to crap (TWINE, DAD, QOS, SP). I am still hopeful for NTTD, but I don't have anywhere near the confidence in EON that I did under Broccoli senior.

    It is all about opinion though. I mean IMHO CR is greater than GE, SF is more decent than TND, QoS is better than TWINE and SP is better than DAD - if truth be told.

    I feel on this forum that a controversial opinion is to rate SF as highly as I do.
    It's my favourite Craig film, well paced, superbly acted by one and all, and highly entertaining. I've never once been anything but entertained by it.

    Another controversial opinion - I think LTK is the worst Bond film of them all.

    LTK is middle tier for me, and it has crept up in my rankings recently.

    Why do you think its the worst Bond film @NicNac ?

    Well, I have never been a Dalton fan. He was quite good in TLD, but I don't like his performance at all in LTK (apart from isolated moments).
    The film features the weakest M, the worst Moneypenny and the most irritating Bond girl in Talisa Soto.
    I find the film far too grim with exploding heads, hearts being cut out and a young bride being murdered (and possibly raped) on her wedding day. That isn't what Bond is about, and it all leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
    Bond tracking down Sanchez, one of the most powerful man in South America and infiltrating his complex and tightly guarded empire with such ease (the Chinese agents had spent years trying to get in) within a couple of days is a trifle jaw dropping. Not to mention the way this naturally suspicious and untrusting villain was hanging on Bond's every word about who was betraying him.

    I liked
    Robert Davi
    Benicio del Toro
    In fact all the villains down to and including Wayne Newton were excellent.

    I also liked the tanker chase.

    Most of the rest I have struggled with.


    Fair enough. Points well made.

    I must admit i was watching a youtube review of LTK the other day and the reviewer made an intresting point. If any of Sanchez's men or Milton Crest had simply described Bond to him after their encounters with him, Sanchez would have been immediately alerted to who Bond was and what he was up to!
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    NicNac wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Octopussy wrote: »
    Dr_Metz wrote: »
    Thank you. I think craig is a good actor and a good bond, but he is no where near daltons level.
    If Craig actually got a decent Bond script, he might actually be quite good. But, as they say, wrong place, wrong time.

    Totally agree with both these points. Craig's tenure as Bond peaked with Casino Royale. While Quantum of Solace has definitely grown on me over time, almost presenting like a modern take on Licence To Kill, it still doesn't beat the "original". Skyfall is average, IMO. The best scene in the entire film is the finale where Bond enters the 'classic' M office. I enjoyed Spectre up until the car chase, but then it really suffers badly, which is putting it mildly.

    Ironically, I watched a video of the Royal Premiere of Licence To Kill this afternoon and hearing Dalton speak about Bond as a character, it's almost like listening to Craig. Dalton states that The Living Daylights was a step towards where he wanted the films to go and LTK was a leap. Similarly, Craig has said that he always had a vision of reinventing the character. Dalton was the original harder edge Bond. It's quite amusing hearing news outlets make it out as though Craig has done something revolutionary. It's so disappointing that Timothy only made TLD and LTK as I can imagine a Goldeneye with him in it would've been incredible.

    Unfortunately, while I like Craig as Bond, I too feel that the writing has let him down since Casino. Hopefully No Time To Die will be a redeeming swansong.

    Agree with you completely. Particularly on the last statement.

    I think, since Cubby handed over the reigns, Bond has been a decidedly mixed bag.

    A lot of the fans talk about Craig's era as though it's a beacon of quality, but I rank it similarly to Brosnan's. To me they both had one great film (GE, CR) one decent film (TND, SF) and two each that are, to out it bluntly, fair to crap (TWINE, DAD, QOS, SP). I am still hopeful for NTTD, but I don't have anywhere near the confidence in EON that I did under Broccoli senior.

    It is all about opinion though. I mean IMHO CR is greater than GE, SF is more decent than TND, QoS is better than TWINE and SP is better than DAD - if truth be told.

    I feel on this forum that a controversial opinion is to rate SF as highly as I do.
    It's my favourite Craig film, well paced, superbly acted by one and all, and highly entertaining. I've never once been anything but entertained by it.

    Another controversial opinion - I think LTK is the worst Bond film of them all.

    It's a matter of opinion, like you said. GE and CR are both top 5 or 6 in the series for me. TND and SF are both middling. And the other four Brosnan/Craig efforts are all in my bottom 5.

    Surprised to hear LTK at the bottom of the heap, for you. Its an upper middle for me. It does have a slight 'TV movie of the week' look, but I enjoy it's hard boiled nature, as a one off. I wouldn't have wanted the series to continue in that fashion, but on its own merit, it's a good film.

    That's the beauty of this forum. The opinion and analysis is so diverse. One man's trash is another's treasure.
  • Posts: 1,917
    My current controversial opinion is that the seemingly universally-hated The Writing's on the Wall is a more enjoyable theme song than Skyfall.

    SF's title song is like about everything else about the film: overblown and overrated. I guess it didn't help that I was dead tired of Adele's overexposure at that point. The first screening I went to there was some teen girl who kept singing the song over and over who likely only came to the film because she knew the song.

    Then there's the lyrics, which make Duran Duran's or a-Ha's seem less cryptic. A lot just seem to be grasping for rhymes. Jim Morrison did just fine with using The End, thank you. They throw in number and name to try to give it a Bond nod, but it just reminds me of the Secret Agent Man song. Then there's the echoed part that really grates on my nerves.

    Smith's lyrics aren't necessarily any better and his voice can be hard to take, but the music itself is more satisfying for me. And it gets a nice insertion into the score later on during the train scene. The difference is I liked the smoothness of Smith's song and it was more pleasant in my recall than the echoes of the Adele song.

    That said, neither seems worth of a Best Original Song Oscar, particularly when themes like Goldfinger, You Only Live Twice and Diamonds are Forever couldn't even get nominations. It just shows how things have changed and what is considered these days.
  • Posts: 15,123
    echo wrote: »
    The best thing about DAD is that they didn't use the Blades card game and Gala Brand. These could be perfect for a new actor in B26!

    I'm glad they were not spoiled by being included in that movie.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,264
    BT3366 wrote: »
    My current controversial opinion is that the seemingly universally-hated The Writing's on the Wall is a more enjoyable theme song than Skyfall.

    SF's title song is like about everything else about the film: overblown and overrated. I guess it didn't help that I was dead tired of Adele's overexposure at that point. The first screening I went to there was some teen girl who kept singing the song over and over who likely only came to the film because she knew the song.

    Then there's the lyrics, which make Duran Duran's or a-Ha's seem less cryptic. A lot just seem to be grasping for rhymes. Jim Morrison did just fine with using The End, thank you. They throw in number and name to try to give it a Bond nod, but it just reminds me of the Secret Agent Man song. Then there's the echoed part that really grates on my nerves.

    Smith's lyrics aren't necessarily any better and his voice can be hard to take, but the music itself is more satisfying for me. And it gets a nice insertion into the score later on during the train scene. The difference is I liked the smoothness of Smith's song and it was more pleasant in my recall than the echoes of the Adele song.

    That said, neither seems worth of a Best Original Song Oscar, particularly when themes like Goldfinger, You Only Live Twice and Diamonds are Forever couldn't even get nominations. It just shows how things have changed and what is considered these days.

    Allthough I disagree about the Adele song, I'm definately not a 'Writing's' hater. or a modern pop song I think it's pretty good. Oscar worthy? maybe not, but the Oscars only judge on the current competition.

    I do like SF as well though. It's not perfect, far from it, but both songs are not bad and good to listen to once in a while. Again, sure no competition to the songs from the sixties but what else is?
  • Posts: 1,917
    I relistened to You Know My Name and already really liked it, it's the best modern theme in my opinion, and listened to the lyrics closely and my appreciation grew as it seems to be like a briefing between M and Bond prior to being granted his 00 status.
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