Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    edited January 2020 Posts: 13,803
    Briefing from M, that's good to consider, @BT3366.

    I always took it as in the vein of The Stones' "Sympathy for the Devil", with Satan himself as puppetmaster yelling at Bond. Taunting him about the dangerous direction he's taken.

  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,040
    Please "allow me to introduce myself. I am" Ernst Stavro Blofeld (huh-huh).
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    I think that Moonraker and Die Another Day are their respective actors best performance in the role of Bond. Controversial?
  • Agent_47Agent_47 Canada
    Posts: 330
    Octopussy wrote: »
    I think that Moonraker and Die Another Day are their respective actors best performance in the role of Bond. Controversial?

    I don't think that is controversial at all. Not on these forums atleast.

    I believe Brosnan's best performance is TWINE, and Moore's to be TMWTGG.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,134
    Agent_47 wrote: »
    Octopussy wrote: »
    I think that Moonraker and Die Another Day are their respective actors best performance in the role of Bond. Controversial?

    I don't think that is controversial at all. Not on these forums atleast.

    I believe Brosnan's best performance is TWINE, and Moore's to be TMWTGG.

    I agree, though I would also agree with @Octopussy that they were both very good in their most outlandish outings as well.
  • Agent_47Agent_47 Canada
    Posts: 330
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Craig has not come close to matching the overwhelming coolness of Bond vs Dr. Kaufman at any point in his last three outings (he has plenty of equally great, or even greater, moments and scenes in CR).

    What a great scene, easily my favourite moment in TND.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Craig has not come close to matching the overwhelming coolness of Bond vs Dr. Kaufman at any point in his last three outings (he has plenty of equally great, or even greater, moments and scenes in CR).

    Bond facing up to Yusef at the end of QOS, and how Bond manipulates the situation. That was pretty cool.
  • Birdleson wrote: »
    Craig has not come close to matching the overwhelming coolness of Bond vs Dr. Kaufman at any point in his last three outings (he has plenty of equally great, or even greater, moments and scenes in CR).

    Ah, a very interesting thought.

    That sense of cool, of a moment that's really allowed to breathe, of fantastic character development and casting . . . a real battle of wits in a quiet but very high-stakes moment. Given the (apparently) tortured writing process for the movie, one wonders how it managed to bubble to the top.

    More like that, please!
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    octofinger wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Craig has not come close to matching the overwhelming coolness of Bond vs Dr. Kaufman at any point in his last three outings (he has plenty of equally great, or even greater, moments and scenes in CR).

    Ah, a very interesting thought.

    That sense of cool, of a moment that's really allowed to breathe, of fantastic character development and casting . . . a real battle of wits in a quiet but very high-stakes moment. Given the (apparently) tortured writing process for the movie, one wonders how it managed to bubble to the top.

    More like that, please!

    TND did have its moments. Bond and Paris in his hotel room was quietly effective as was Carver recalling his early days in the newspaper business. The film had a few of these nice moments.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    NicNac wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Craig has not come close to matching the overwhelming coolness of Bond vs Dr. Kaufman at any point in his last three outings (he has plenty of equally great, or even greater, moments and scenes in CR).

    Bond facing up to Yusef at the end of QOS, and how Bond manipulates the situation. That was pretty cool.

    I really like Craig in this scene. Amazing intensity. It's an awesome moment and definitely a highlight of his tenure, IMO.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,264
    NicNac wrote: »
    octofinger wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Craig has not come close to matching the overwhelming coolness of Bond vs Dr. Kaufman at any point in his last three outings (he has plenty of equally great, or even greater, moments and scenes in CR).

    Ah, a very interesting thought.

    That sense of cool, of a moment that's really allowed to breathe, of fantastic character development and casting . . . a real battle of wits in a quiet but very high-stakes moment. Given the (apparently) tortured writing process for the movie, one wonders how it managed to bubble to the top.

    More like that, please!

    TND did have its moments. Bond and Paris in his hotel room was quietly effective as was Carver recalling his early days in the newspaper business. The film had a few of these nice moments.

    Bond and Paris in the hotelroom doesn't work for me at all, mainly because of Terri's terrible acting. I hate the scene because it could've been so cool. Instead we've got an uninterested lady reading autocue
  • Posts: 15,123
    NicNac wrote: »
    octofinger wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Craig has not come close to matching the overwhelming coolness of Bond vs Dr. Kaufman at any point in his last three outings (he has plenty of equally great, or even greater, moments and scenes in CR).

    Ah, a very interesting thought.

    That sense of cool, of a moment that's really allowed to breathe, of fantastic character development and casting . . . a real battle of wits in a quiet but very high-stakes moment. Given the (apparently) tortured writing process for the movie, one wonders how it managed to bubble to the top.

    More like that, please!

    TND did have its moments. Bond and Paris in his hotel room was quietly effective as was Carver recalling his early days in the newspaper business. The film had a few of these nice moments.

    Bond and Paris in the hotelroom doesn't work for me at all, mainly because of Terri's terrible acting. I hate the scene because it could've been so cool. Instead we've got an uninterested lady reading autocue

    I think it works in spite of her. Nice to see her take her clothes off, if nothing else.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    Ludovico wrote: »
    NicNac wrote: »
    octofinger wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Craig has not come close to matching the overwhelming coolness of Bond vs Dr. Kaufman at any point in his last three outings (he has plenty of equally great, or even greater, moments and scenes in CR).

    Ah, a very interesting thought.

    That sense of cool, of a moment that's really allowed to breathe, of fantastic character development and casting . . . a real battle of wits in a quiet but very high-stakes moment. Given the (apparently) tortured writing process for the movie, one wonders how it managed to bubble to the top.

    More like that, please!

    TND did have its moments. Bond and Paris in his hotel room was quietly effective as was Carver recalling his early days in the newspaper business. The film had a few of these nice moments.

    Bond and Paris in the hotelroom doesn't work for me at all, mainly because of Terri's terrible acting. I hate the scene because it could've been so cool. Instead we've got an uninterested lady reading autocue

    I think it works in spite of her. Nice to see her take her clothes off, if nothing else.

    They're real and they're spectacular!
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 15,123
    Octopussy wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    NicNac wrote: »
    octofinger wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Craig has not come close to matching the overwhelming coolness of Bond vs Dr. Kaufman at any point in his last three outings (he has plenty of equally great, or even greater, moments and scenes in CR).

    Ah, a very interesting thought.

    That sense of cool, of a moment that's really allowed to breathe, of fantastic character development and casting . . . a real battle of wits in a quiet but very high-stakes moment. Given the (apparently) tortured writing process for the movie, one wonders how it managed to bubble to the top.

    More like that, please!

    TND did have its moments. Bond and Paris in his hotel room was quietly effective as was Carver recalling his early days in the newspaper business. The film had a few of these nice moments.

    Bond and Paris in the hotelroom doesn't work for me at all, mainly because of Terri's terrible acting. I hate the scene because it could've been so cool. Instead we've got an uninterested lady reading autocue

    I think it works in spite of her. Nice to see her take her clothes off, if nothing else.

    They're real and they're spectacular!

    And she wears fancy lingerie nicely. That said I never believed in the character of Paris Carver or her past relationship with Bond.
  • Posts: 7,507
    NicNac wrote: »
    octofinger wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Craig has not come close to matching the overwhelming coolness of Bond vs Dr. Kaufman at any point in his last three outings (he has plenty of equally great, or even greater, moments and scenes in CR).

    Ah, a very interesting thought.

    That sense of cool, of a moment that's really allowed to breathe, of fantastic character development and casting . . . a real battle of wits in a quiet but very high-stakes moment. Given the (apparently) tortured writing process for the movie, one wonders how it managed to bubble to the top.

    More like that, please!

    TND did have its moments. Bond and Paris in his hotel room was quietly effective as was Carver recalling his early days in the newspaper business. The film had a few of these nice moments.

    Bond and Paris in the hotelroom doesn't work for me at all, mainly because of Terri's terrible acting. I hate the scene because it could've been so cool. Instead we've got an uninterested lady reading autocue

    True, and honestly I don't think Brosnan is much better actually...

    Pierce was never at his best in dramatic, emotional scenes. It always comes of as melodramatic and soap opery.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    In that scene, I think Brosnan is fine. I like his stillness. Hatcher may be going for the soap opera digest award in that scene, but not Brosnan.

    Indeed you could interpret that Bond is just manipulating Paris in order to get her into bed.

    "Did I get to close for comfort?"
    "Sure."
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Birdleson wrote: »
    NicNac wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Craig has not come close to matching the overwhelming coolness of Bond vs Dr. Kaufman at any point in his last three outings (he has plenty of equally great, or even greater, moments and scenes in CR).

    Bond facing up to Yusef at the end of QOS, and how Bond manipulates the situation. That was pretty cool.

    I really do like that scene, and most all of QOS, but to me Craig is still just coming off as the usual angry, commanding Craig; which is great, but not particularly “cool” (cool would be the denouement of CR).

    Really? I think Daniel has the screen presence on an English Steve McQueen. Indeed, in the past Daniel Craig has been tipped to play screen legend Steve McQueen by the late actor's widow. Barbara McQueen Brunsvold insists Craig is the only actor who can do the mammoth role justice in any biopic.

    She said: "I think Daniel would be the best one to play Steve. He's kind of got that swagger, the good looks - if I wasn't married I'd date him."
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,264
    royale65 wrote: »
    In that scene, I think Brosnan is fine. I like his stillness. Hatcher may be going for the soap opera digest award in that scene, but not Brosnan.

    Indeed you could interpret that Bond is just manipulating Paris in order to get her into bed.

    "Did I get to close for comfort?"
    "Sure."

    I agree. Brosnan's actually cool for a change in an emotional scene. No wild movements. I've always thought he'd actually had a few vodka's before the scene to come off authentically.
    Hate the line too though. Teri's acting is terrible but the line is typical P&W (don't even know if they wrote it, but ok ;-) ). Horrid.

    suavejmf wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    NicNac wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Craig has not come close to matching the overwhelming coolness of Bond vs Dr. Kaufman at any point in his last three outings (he has plenty of equally great, or even greater, moments and scenes in CR).

    Bond facing up to Yusef at the end of QOS, and how Bond manipulates the situation. That was pretty cool.

    I really do like that scene, and most all of QOS, but to me Craig is still just coming off as the usual angry, commanding Craig; which is great, but not particularly “cool” (cool would be the denouement of CR).

    Really? I think Daniel has the screen presence on an English Steve McQueen. Indeed, in the past Daniel Craig has been tipped to play screen legend Steve McQueen by the late actor's widow. Barbara McQueen Brunsvold insists Craig is the only actor who can do the mammoth role justice in any biopic.

    She said: "I think Daniel would be the best one to play Steve. He's kind of got that swagger, the good looks - if I wasn't married I'd date him."

    I could see Craig play Steve definately. He's got the swagger and like McQueen can move from blue collar to white collar without any effort.

  • cwl007cwl007 England
    Posts: 611
    I never bought the idea of Paris and Bond having a past either.
    The writers should have kept the original rumoured concept of that character been Sylvia Trench. It wouldn't have improved Terri Hatcher's acting any but the emotional link would have been more authentic between her and Bond. It would have been a nice little Easter egg for the fan as well. Shame, Missed opportunity
  • Posts: 12,473
    cwl007 wrote: »
    I never bought the idea of Paris and Bond having a past either.
    The writers should have kept the original rumoured concept of that character been Sylvia Trench. It wouldn't have improved Terri Hatcher's acting any but the emotional link would have been more authentic between her and Bond. It would have been a nice little Easter egg for the fan as well. Shame, Missed opportunity
    cwl007 wrote: »
    I never bought the idea of Paris and Bond having a past either.
    The writers should have kept the original rumoured concept of that character been Sylvia Trench. It wouldn't have improved Terri Hatcher's acting any but the emotional link would have been more authentic between her and Bond. It would have been a nice little Easter egg for the fan as well. Shame, Missed opportunity

    Same goes for naming Miranda Frost in DAD Gala Brand. The easter egg would have been nice.
  • cwl007cwl007 England
    Posts: 611
    +1 - it's the little touches.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,634
    Believe it or not as much as I want Purvis and Wade gone, I don’t think they’re the worst James Bond writers, or screenplay writers. The worst screenwriter would probably go to Tom Mankiewicz, although I blame Guy Hamilton more for the end result.
  • Posts: 12,473
    Both Hamilton and P&W are hit-and-miss for me.
  • Posts: 16,167
    I'll take Hamilton over P&W any day. Even lesser Hamilton.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    edited January 2020 Posts: 13,803
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Believe it or not as much as I want Purvis and Wade gone, I don’t think they’re the worst James Bond writers, or screenplay writers. The worst screenwriter would probably go to Tom Mankiewicz, although I blame Guy Hamilton more for the end result.
    To me the faults really lie at the feet of the producers for what was filmed and made it on screen. Then the director, then the writers. Or maybe sometimes switch those two.

    With Purvis, Wade, and Mankiewicz there is also the example of Christopher Wood who wrote likely the silliest mission Moonraker. But you wouldn't know it if you read his novelization. He was writing to the wishes of the producer(s) at the time. This is especially true for Bond films.

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    I think Dalton earnestly wanted a movie like LTK but not exactly in the way it resulted in that 1989 film. There’s a solid concept of a film that Dalton could sink his teeth in, but it clearly needed filmmakers that could deliver and John Glen was just out of his league.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,134
    Mankiewicz might not have been the man who wrote watertight plots, but he sure was able to come up with some great dialogue. Hamilton's 70's outings have their problems but wittiness isn't one of them.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    I do think DAF has some of the strongest dialogue of the series. Whatever you may think of Charles Gray as Blofeld, I love this particular line that I think really nails Blofeld's worldview.

    "The great powers flexing their military muscles like so many impudent beach boys."

    I do think that Guy Hamilton wasn't the right director to make films based off those scripts. Take Richard Donner's Superman, which was written by Mankiewicz and it feels so grand yet contains all the snappy dialogue that you would expect from that writer. I think had Lewis Gilbert done the Mankiewicz films it would come close to that Donner Superman vibe where it feels both epic and witty. As much contributions Hamilton made that were great, I do think his direction tended to come off rather cheap particularly with the 70s films.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    I find Hamilton the most overrated of all the multiple film Bond directors.

    Goldfinger is a good film, with an excellent villain but that wasn't down to Hamilton. It still didn't have the visual flair of Terence Young, or Lewis Gilbert's films.
    DAF and LALD are probably the two most pedestrian looking Bond films until TWINE.

    TMWTGG looks great when Bond arrives at Scaramanga's island, but before that, nothing. Incredible when you factor in Hong Kong(which is barely shown apart from an establishing shot or two) and Thailand. Two very stunning, exotic places(believe me, I have been) woefully underused.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    I think there's some good visual choices in GF that makes it stand out, like how Hamilton is able to convey information in a exposition scene visually. Like in the scene with Colonel Smithers where he's talking about gold smuggling and how the price of gold "varies from country to country" while at the same time Hamilton is having the characters passing the brandy from one to the other. It's little touches like that that put it a step above his later efforts. He turned down doing more Bond films initially after GF, so I wonder if he was just kind of slumming it in the 70s.
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