Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Posts: 15,125
    cwl007 wrote: »
    I never bought the idea of Paris and Bond having a past either.
    The writers should have kept the original rumoured concept of that character been Sylvia Trench. It wouldn't have improved Terri Hatcher's acting any but the emotional link would have been more authentic between her and Bond. It would have been a nice little Easter egg for the fan as well. Shame, Missed opportunity

    I'm glad they didn't have Sylvia Trench instead, especially not played by Teri Hatcher! Why and how would Trench suddenly turn into an American? And Trench was not meant to be someone Bond falls for. Or her to fall for Bond. Their affair was entirely sexual. It would have spoiled one great character in so many ways, just to give the fans an unnecessary Easter egg.
  • Posts: 17,759
    Controversial opinion: I'm a huge fan of the Guy Hamilton Bond films – all of them.
  • Agent_47Agent_47 Canada
    Posts: 330
    Controversial opinion: I'm a huge fan of the Guy Hamilton Bond films – all of them.

    Controversial opinion: I'm a huge fan of the Brosnan Bond films - all of them

    ^ Now that is a controversial opinion. I could be charged for heresy on these forums. A few users on here would have me hung if they could. I'm pretty sure you're allowed to have any controversial opinion except this one, forum policy.

    You can't even express joy of any kind for the Brosnan films without the "**** you and Brosnan and everything you enjoy" train showing up to tell you that your opinion is wrong and you should be scolded for liking his era.

    Ultimate controversial opinion... I love the Brosnan era, close thread, can't be topped.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Agent_47 wrote: »
    Controversial opinion: I'm a huge fan of the Guy Hamilton Bond films – all of them.

    Controversial opinion: I'm a huge fan of the Brosnan Bond films - all of them

    ^ Now that is a controversial opinion. I could be charged for heresy on these forums. A few users on here would have me hung if they could. I'm pretty sure you're allowed to have any controversial opinion except this one, forum policy.

    You can't even express joy of any kind for the Brosnan films without the "**** you and Brosnan and everything you enjoy" train showing up to tell you that your opinion is wrong and you should be scolded for liking his era.

    Ultimate controversial opinion... I love the Brosnan era, close thread, can't be topped.

    To be fair, there's really only two or three rabid Brosnan haters on this forum, but they do tend to dogpile any opportunity they get. ;)
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,306
    cwl007 wrote: »
    I never bought the idea of Paris and Bond having a past either.
    The writers should have kept the original rumoured concept of that character been Sylvia Trench. It wouldn't have improved Terri Hatcher's acting any but the emotional link would have been more authentic between her and Bond. It would have been a nice little Easter egg for the fan as well. Shame, Missed opportunity

    Paris was supposed to be Natalya originally.
    I do think DAF has some of the strongest dialogue of the series. Whatever you may think of Charles Gray as Blofeld, I love this particular line that I think really nails Blofeld's worldview.

    "The great powers flexing their military muscles like so many impudent beach boys."

    I do think that Guy Hamilton wasn't the right director to make films based off those scripts. Take Richard Donner's Superman, which was written by Mankiewicz and it feels so grand yet contains all the snappy dialogue that you would expect from that writer. I think had Lewis Gilbert done the Mankiewicz films it would come close to that Donner Superman vibe where it feels both epic and witty. As much contributions Hamilton made that were great, I do think his direction tended to come off rather cheap particularly with the 70s films.

    "Impotent beach boys"
  • Agent_47Agent_47 Canada
    Posts: 330
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Controversial opinion: I'm a huge fan of the Brosnan Bond films - all of them

    ^ Now that is a controversial opinion. I could be charged for heresy on these forums. A few users on here would have me hung if they could. I'm pretty sure you're allowed to have any controversial opinion except this one, forum policy.

    You can't even express joy of any kind for the Brosnan films without the "**** you and Brosnan and everything you enjoy" train showing up to tell you that your opinion is wrong and you should be scolded for liking his era.

    Ultimate controversial opinion... I love the Brosnan era, close thread, can't be topped.

    To be fair, there's really only two or three rabid Brosnan haters on this forum, but they do tend to dogpile any opportunity they get. ;)

    Yes, there are several members on here that love everything he's done: @Murdock , @chrisisall and, I believe @Some_Kind_Of_Hero . I know there are others.

    Heroes, the lot of them.

    Giving balance to the force.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Admittedly, I snicker like Brofeld every time I see unwavering love for Brosnan, about the same as I do for those who unrelentingly hate him. So much love and hate for a guy who to me was just about average.

    I'm just right in the middle, criticizing and appreciating what the Broz brought to the franchise. That's TRUE balance. ;) I'll blast his performance in TWINE, but if you give a bad word about him in DAD I'll blow up diamonds in your face.
  • Agent_47Agent_47 Canada
    Posts: 330
    Admittedly, I snicker like Brofeld every time I see unwavering love for Brosnan, about the same as I do for those who unrelentingly hate him. So much love and hate for a guy who to me was just about average.

    I'm just right in the middle, criticizing and appreciating what the Broz brought to the franchise. That's TRUE balance. ;) I'll blast his performance in TWINE, but if you give a bad word about him in DAD I'll blow up diamonds in your face.

    I've noticed a lot of love for Brosnan's performance in DAD on the forums lately. I may have to pop that one in and reevaluate it a bit.

    Brosnan's performance in TWINE is my favourite of his (minus 2 scenes where he drops the ball) but I've always felt that his most consistent performances were TND and DAD.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Brosnan in DAD is the guy I wish we got from the very start. In GE and TND he always seemed a little too restrained, like there was a conscious effort to come off very cool and smooth but it always felt artificial to me. By DAD he seemed to have dropped that by just being naturally cool. There's also more of an edge to him, a take no prisoners approach added. I think that was due to his growth as an actor. No coincidence, I think he really grew up as an actor as evident in his post-Bond films like THE MADATOR and THE GHOST WRITER. It's kind of a shame he hasn't been getting more prolific parts, ending up in rental stuff like I.T.
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    Posts: 5,185
    Agent_47 wrote: »
    Admittedly, I snicker like Brofeld every time I see unwavering love for Brosnan, about the same as I do for those who unrelentingly hate him. So much love and hate for a guy who to me was just about average.

    I'm just right in the middle, criticizing and appreciating what the Broz brought to the franchise. That's TRUE balance. ;) I'll blast his performance in TWINE, but if you give a bad word about him in DAD I'll blow up diamonds in your face.

    I've noticed a lot of love for Brosnan's performance in DAD on the forums lately. I may have to pop that one in and reevaluate it a bit.

    Brosnan's performance in TWINE is my favourite of his (minus 2 scenes where he drops the ball) but I've always felt that his most consistent performances were TND and DAD.

    You need to hang out in the Brosnan appreciation thread more. There are many dedicated Brosnan fanatics here. Me being one of them. And there aren't really that many haters, after a couple month on here you know them all by name and it will be easy to ignore them ;)
  • Agent_47Agent_47 Canada
    Posts: 330
    Brosnan in DAD is the guy I wish we got from the very start. In GE and TND he always seemed a little too restrained, like there was a conscious effort to come off very cool and smooth but it always felt artificial to me. By DAD he seemed to have dropped that by just being naturally cool. There's also more of an edge to him, a take no prisoners approach added. I think that was due to his growth as an actor. No coincidence, I think he really grew up as an actor as evident in his post-Bond films like THE MADATOR and THE GHOST WRITER. It's kind of a shame he hasn't been getting more prolific parts, ending up in rental stuff like I.T.

    Funny enough, I remember Lee Tamahori (in the BTS featurette) claiming he didn't feel the need to really direct Pierce because he knew Bond by this point.
  • Agent_47Agent_47 Canada
    Posts: 330
    00Agent wrote: »
    Agent_47 wrote: »
    Admittedly, I snicker like Brofeld every time I see unwavering love for Brosnan, about the same as I do for those who unrelentingly hate him. So much love and hate for a guy who to me was just about average.

    I'm just right in the middle, criticizing and appreciating what the Broz brought to the franchise. That's TRUE balance. ;) I'll blast his performance in TWINE, but if you give a bad word about him in DAD I'll blow up diamonds in your face.

    I've noticed a lot of love for Brosnan's performance in DAD on the forums lately. I may have to pop that one in and reevaluate it a bit.

    Brosnan's performance in TWINE is my favourite of his (minus 2 scenes where he drops the ball) but I've always felt that his most consistent performances were TND and DAD.

    You need to hang out in the Brosnan appreciation thread more. There are many dedicated Brosnan fanatics here. Me being one of them. And there aren't really that many haters, after a couple month on here you know them all by name and it will be easy to ignore them ;)

    I really should. Expect to find plenty of posts in the Brosnan thread from me moving forward.

  • Agent_47Agent_47 Canada
    Posts: 330
    Don't think this is that controversial, but I don't think Bond movies should ever visit North America. Bond can go into space... but not the States.

    Something just feels wrong about Bond in America to me.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    While Timmy is my favourite, I love the Brosnan Era as well. It has a lot of nostalgic value for me.
    TND however doesn't quite cut it for me. Apart from that, I love both GE and TWINE, and DAD will always be the first 'upcoming Bond' I experienced.
    I've got to add NF and EON too, couldn't stop playing them. Eventually the Pierce films made me a fan and I'll be eternally grateful for that.
  • Agent_47Agent_47 Canada
    Posts: 330
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    While Timmy is my favourite, I love the Brosnan Era as well. It has a lot of nostalgic value for me.
    TND however doesn't quite cut it for me. Apart from that, I love both GE and TWINE, and DAD will always be the first 'upcoming Bond' I experienced.
    I've got to add NF and EON too, couldn't stop playing them. Eventually the Pierce films made me a fan and I'll be eternally grateful for that.

    I've been curious, why doesn't TND work for you? I remember it being around the bottom of your rankings.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Agent_47 wrote: »
    Don't think this is that controversial, but I don't think Bond movies should ever visit North America. Bond can go into space... but not the States.

    Something just feels wrong about Bond in America to me.

    It only works so well in the books for just one reason: Fleming's narration/commentary on America. It's incredibly difficult to depict Bond in America without that commentary because Bond is such a internal person you won't hear his perspective beyond body language and brief remarks, which isn't a whole lot. It's some of my favorite aspects of even his weaker novels like Live and Let Die and Diamonds Are Forever.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Agent_47 wrote: »
    Don't think this is that controversial, but I don't think Bond movies should ever visit North America. Bond can go into space... but not the States.

    Something just feels wrong about Bond in America to me.

    It only works so well in the books for just one reason: Fleming's narration/commentary on America. It's incredibly difficult to depict Bond in America without that commentary because Bond is such a internal person you won't hear his perspective beyond body language and brief remarks, which isn't a whole lot. It's some of my favorite aspects of even his weaker novels like Live and Let Die and Diamonds Are Forever.

    Why is LALD a weaker novel? I think it's one of the best.

    His second book in the James Bond series was very exciting. Full of dangers from poisonous fish, voodoo and a sophisticated crime syndicate based in Harlem. I found the action in this one (especially at the finish) to be raised several notches above the previous book (Casino Royale).

    The second Bond novel works fairly well as a suspense thriller with some genuinely pulse-pounding moments, including Bond's midnight swim to Mr. Big's hideout.

    To charge this book with racism, as many reviews have done so, is absurd. The book and attitudes were of the time and obviously these views are expressed within the pages. The same charges could be aimed at Sherlock Holmes, Agatha Christie, Bulldog Drummond and any classic character.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Controversial opinion: I'm a huge fan of the Guy Hamilton Bond films – all of them.

    Not too controversial. There are several of us.

    I don't dislike any of the Hamilton films, apart from DAF. They just don't have any real visual flair.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    Agent_47 wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    While Timmy is my favourite, I love the Brosnan Era as well. It has a lot of nostalgic value for me.
    TND however doesn't quite cut it for me. Apart from that, I love both GE and TWINE, and DAD will always be the first 'upcoming Bond' I experienced.
    I've got to add NF and EON too, couldn't stop playing them. Eventually the Pierce films made me a fan and I'll be eternally grateful for that.

    I've been curious, why doesn't TND work for you? I remember it being around the bottom of your rankings.

    It's still watchable of course, but I never liked the way they just went for non-stop action and dual-wielding gunplay in the entire second half. It also has something to do with the uninteresting locations. While other Brosnan entries boast more (post) Cold War-esque worlds with St. Petersburg, the Caucasus and North Korea, and more glamourous locals like casinos, fencing clubs or even an ice palace, TND is a bit drab on that account. Still though 3 out of 4 is a good score for Pierce.
  • RyanRyan Canada
    Posts: 692
    I think there's some good visual choices in GF that makes it stand out, like how Hamilton is able to convey information in a exposition scene visually. Like in the scene with Colonel Smithers where he's talking about gold smuggling and how the price of gold "varies from country to country" while at the same time Hamilton is having the characters passing the brandy from one to the other. It's little touches like that that put it a step above his later efforts. He turned down doing more Bond films initially after GF, so I wonder if he was just kind of slumming it in the 70s.

    He seemed to be fairly passive making his post-Goldfinger films. I always cringe a little when I watch the "Inside DAF" documentary and he describes the Mustang stunt and how his attitude when the drivers did it on the wrong set of wheel was basically "meh, it's all the same."

    I feel like that attitude comes across in the remaining films. That said, I do love LALD.
    Agent_47 wrote: »
    Admittedly, I snicker like Brofeld every time I see unwavering love for Brosnan, about the same as I do for those who unrelentingly hate him. So much love and hate for a guy who to me was just about average.

    I'm just right in the middle, criticizing and appreciating what the Broz brought to the franchise. That's TRUE balance. ;) I'll blast his performance in TWINE, but if you give a bad word about him in DAD I'll blow up diamonds in your face.

    I've noticed a lot of love for Brosnan's performance in DAD on the forums lately. I may have to pop that one in and reevaluate it a bit.

    Brosnan's performance in TWINE is my favourite of his (minus 2 scenes where he drops the ball) but I've always felt that his most consistent performances were TND and DAD.

    "There's no point in LIVING if you can't feel ALIVE?!"
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    Agent_47 wrote: »
    Brosnan in DAD is the guy I wish we got from the very start. In GE and TND he always seemed a little too restrained, like there was a conscious effort to come off very cool and smooth but it always felt artificial to me. By DAD he seemed to have dropped that by just being naturally cool. There's also more of an edge to him, a take no prisoners approach added. I think that was due to his growth as an actor. No coincidence, I think he really grew up as an actor as evident in his post-Bond films like THE MADATOR and THE GHOST WRITER. It's kind of a shame he hasn't been getting more prolific parts, ending up in rental stuff like I.T.

    Funny enough, I remember Lee Tamahori (in the BTS featurette) claiming he didn't feel the need to really direct Pierce because he knew Bond by this point.

    Considering the rest of the film it probably saved Brosnans' performance....


    Another shout out to the awesomeness of the LALD novel, and then a truly controversial opinion:

    People find Denise Richards unbelievable because of sexism. They think a nuclear phisisist just can't be that hot, but in fact a good student should be able to finish university at 22-23. She might be working on her PhD at the site..
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Agent_47 wrote: »
    Brosnan in DAD is the guy I wish we got from the very start. In GE and TND he always seemed a little too restrained, like there was a conscious effort to come off very cool and smooth but it always felt artificial to me. By DAD he seemed to have dropped that by just being naturally cool. There's also more of an edge to him, a take no prisoners approach added. I think that was due to his growth as an actor. No coincidence, I think he really grew up as an actor as evident in his post-Bond films like THE MADATOR and THE GHOST WRITER. It's kind of a shame he hasn't been getting more prolific parts, ending up in rental stuff like I.T.

    Funny enough, I remember Lee Tamahori (in the BTS featurette) claiming he didn't feel the need to really direct Pierce because he knew Bond by this point.

    Considering the rest of the film it probably saved Brosnans' performance....


    Another shout out to the awesomeness of the LALD novel, and then a truly controversial opinion:

    People find Denise Richards unbelievable because of sexism. They think a nuclear phisisist just can't be that hot, but in fact a good student should be able to finish university at 22-23. She might be working on her PhD at the site..

    I agree. People should be ashamed of themselves.
  • Agent_47Agent_47 Canada
    Posts: 330
    Ryan wrote: »
    I think there's some good visual choices in GF that makes it stand out, like how Hamilton is able to convey information in a exposition scene visually. Like in the scene with Colonel Smithers where he's talking about gold smuggling and how the price of gold "varies from country to country" while at the same time Hamilton is having the characters passing the brandy from one to the other. It's little touches like that that put it a step above his later efforts. He turned down doing more Bond films initially after GF, so I wonder if he was just kind of slumming it in the 70s.

    He seemed to be fairly passive making his post-Goldfinger films. I always cringe a little when I watch the "Inside DAF" documentary and he describes the Mustang stunt and how his attitude when the drivers did it on the wrong set of wheel was basically "meh, it's all the same."

    I feel like that attitude comes across in the remaining films. That said, I do love LALD.
    Agent_47 wrote: »
    Admittedly, I snicker like Brofeld every time I see unwavering love for Brosnan, about the same as I do for those who unrelentingly hate him. So much love and hate for a guy who to me was just about average.

    I'm just right in the middle, criticizing and appreciating what the Broz brought to the franchise. That's TRUE balance. ;) I'll blast his performance in TWINE, but if you give a bad word about him in DAD I'll blow up diamonds in your face.

    I've noticed a lot of love for Brosnan's performance in DAD on the forums lately. I may have to pop that one in and reevaluate it a bit.

    Brosnan's performance in TWINE is my favourite of his (minus 2 scenes where he drops the ball) but I've always felt that his most consistent performances were TND and DAD.

    "There's no point in LIVING if you can't feel ALIVE?!"

    It may be my favourite Bond movie but that one scene... ugh.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Birdleson wrote: »
    It's her (Richards) crappy acting, poor dialogue (not her fault) and annoying presence that I dislike. As a film, EON should have taken its' cue from OHMSS (which it references in several ways) and, like the later CR, let Elektra be the sole major Bond Girl of the film and let her die, with no clever Bond/Bond Girl ending. The film would have been demonstrably improved if the character of Christmas Jones was completely written out of the movie. That, along with some more interesting and inventive ways to exploit Renard's condition, would have possibly put TWINE among the great ones (at least in my book), rather than sitting at near bottom (SP gives it a cushion to rest upon).

    There's several reasons why TWINE feels like a film that pulls its punches, and the presence of Christmas Jones is the biggest. That said, I have nothing against Denise Richards, I think she was just given a lousy role that no one could have made interesting because the character really serves no substantial purpose beyond exposition dumps about nuclear science and being the conquest at the end. She was also pushed onto EON by MGM, and EON did a pretty lousy job treating the actress.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,638
    Speaking of PB’s films, here’s another controversial opinion of mine: the spin off media of all 4 of PB’s films are better than the films themselves. The Nintendo 64 versions of GE and TWINE and Raymond Benson’s novelizations of TND and DAD are definitely better than their original movie sources.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Birdleson wrote: »
    That, along with some more interesting and inventive ways to exploit Renard's condition, would have possibly put TWINE among the great ones (at least in my book), rather than sitting at near bottom (SP gives it a cushion to rest upon).

    It needs that cushion because it is lazy.
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 7,507
    Agent_47 wrote: »
    Brosnan in DAD is the guy I wish we got from the very start. In GE and TND he always seemed a little too restrained, like there was a conscious effort to come off very cool and smooth but it always felt artificial to me. By DAD he seemed to have dropped that by just being naturally cool. There's also more of an edge to him, a take no prisoners approach added. I think that was due to his growth as an actor. No coincidence, I think he really grew up as an actor as evident in his post-Bond films like THE MADATOR and THE GHOST WRITER. It's kind of a shame he hasn't been getting more prolific parts, ending up in rental stuff like I.T.

    Funny enough, I remember Lee Tamahori (in the BTS featurette) claiming he didn't feel the need to really direct Pierce because he knew Bond by this point.

    Considering the rest of the film it probably saved Brosnans' performance....


    Another shout out to the awesomeness of the LALD novel, and then a truly controversial opinion:

    People find Denise Richards unbelievable because of sexism. They think a nuclear phisisist just can't be that hot, but in fact a good student should be able to finish university at 22-23. She might be working on her PhD at the site..

    No, the problem is not that she looks hot, the problem is that she is completely out of her depth acting the part. A good looking physicist would be believable if she was able to convey some conviction in her lines and general presence. She doesn't.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    Agent_47 wrote: »
    Brosnan in DAD is the guy I wish we got from the very start. In GE and TND he always seemed a little too restrained, like there was a conscious effort to come off very cool and smooth but it always felt artificial to me. By DAD he seemed to have dropped that by just being naturally cool. There's also more of an edge to him, a take no prisoners approach added. I think that was due to his growth as an actor. No coincidence, I think he really grew up as an actor as evident in his post-Bond films like THE MADATOR and THE GHOST WRITER. It's kind of a shame he hasn't been getting more prolific parts, ending up in rental stuff like I.T.

    Funny enough, I remember Lee Tamahori (in the BTS featurette) claiming he didn't feel the need to really direct Pierce because he knew Bond by this point.

    I don't think Brosnan knew Bond, but I think by Die Another Day as mentioned, he had given up the facade of being a hybrid of Connery/Moore and approached the film as Pierce Brosnan would. It's for this reason that DAD represents Brosnan's best performance in the role. It's also another reason why I think The World Is Not Enough is painstakingly awful. The delivery of lines such as "There's no point in living, if you can't feel alive" are really overly acted, IMO. Then there's Brosnan's pain face. The whole film feels like an episode of Bold & The Beautiful, whereas despite DAD being undeniably stupid, I enjoy Brosnan's more natural, carefree portrayal. Brosnan never understood the character of Bond, he had a perception of who Bond was based upon those that preceded him, IMO.
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 2,918
    Octopussy wrote: »
    I think by Die Another Day as mentioned, he had given up the facade of being a hybrid of Connery/Moore and approached the film as Pierce Brosnan would. It's for this reason that DAD represents Brosnan's best performance in the role.

    Very well said. DAD might have major problems with its second half, but it has an advantage above its three predecessors, which is Bronan's performance. He had finally relaxed into the role and was no longer posing.

  • Very astute comments about why TWINE is bad. Just wanted to say I appreciate the nuanced insight, @MakeshiftPython @Birdleson
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