Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    Paris is severely underwritten, for sure, but we could have that argument about most 'secondary' Bond girls.

    I cant help but think if they had cast Monica Bellucci, as originally planned, she would have played out better on screen. At least there may have been more allure and charisma in her. Teri Hatcher was a poor choice.

    I read somewhere that her and Pierce didn't get on, and she really phones it in. Pierce had to try and find some measure of chemistry all on his own.
  • Posts: 7,430
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Paris is severely underwritten, for sure, but we could have that argument about most 'secondary' Bond girls.

    I cant help but think if they had cast Monica Bellucci, as originally planned, she would have played out better on screen. At least there may have been more allure and charisma in her. Teri Hatcher was a poor choice.

    I read somewhere that her and Pierce didn't get on, and she really phones it in. Pierce had to try and find some measure of chemistry all on his own.

    Hatcher was pregnant and so was constantly late to set which annoyed Brossa apparently!! The most convincing part of their chemistry was the face slap.....because she meant it!!
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited February 2020 Posts: 4,636
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Paris is severely underwritten, for sure, but we could have that argument about most 'secondary' Bond girls.

    I cant help but think if they had cast Monica Bellucci, as originally planned, she would have played out better on screen. At least there may have been more allure and charisma in her. Teri Hatcher was a poor choice.

    I read somewhere that her and Pierce didn't get on, and she really phones it in. Pierce had to try and find some measure of chemistry all on his own.

    Hatcher was pregnant and so was constantly late to set which annoyed Brossa apparently!! The most convincing part of their chemistry was the face slap.....because she meant it!!

    Teri Hatcher is also known not to be very nice in general. Just look up her final Desperate Housewives goodbye. She wasn’t thanked we everyone else.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,008
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Paris is severely underwritten, for sure, but we could have that argument about most 'secondary' Bond girls.

    I cant help but think if they had cast Monica Bellucci, as originally planned, she would have played out better on screen. At least there may have been more allure and charisma in her. Teri Hatcher was a poor choice.

    I read somewhere that her and Pierce didn't get on, and she really phones it in. Pierce had to try and find some measure of chemistry all on his own.

    Monica Bellucci would have been perfect in the part. What could have been...

    Ms Hatcher is completely miscast. And an American just seems wrong in the part.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Daniel316 wrote: »
    DAD wasn't the cause of the reboot though, a reboot had been on the table since TLD and they planned one once they got the CR rights back in 2000 I think it was. So a Reboot was inevitable regardless of how DAD did (it made the most out of any bond film up to that point and wasn't too badly received Critically either). Besides Bond was still doing A-Ok afterwards with all the games still being made (Nightfire, Everything Or Nothing). So no DAD wasn't the cause of the reboot like everyone falsely tries to say just so they can find a reason to crap over DAD some more, a film that isn't really deserving of all the hate it gets honestly. Also Spectre is way worse, they made Blofeld be Bond's brother, do I even need to continue there? That alone is sinful enough lol

    You're not telling me that EON didn't want a complete change of direction after this 'Shark jumping' film.

    DAD is comic book fluff. The script is one long quip. Not how you go about building
    character.

    The series required a re-think and overhaul, and we got one of the best films of the series as a result.

    Exactly.
  • Tracy wrote: »
    I think AVTAK was ahead of its time , maybe people wouldve been more familiar with it had it been released in 1995 when computers really started to take off ?

    Hmmm . . .not sure that would be enough to save it. I mean, I don't think the biggest problem with AVTAK is the audience
    didn't know what semiconductors are...
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    Ludovico wrote: »
    A former flame is a good concept, but should have been done with better casting and a better written part.

    Hopefully Madeleine works better as a former flame than as the love internet.

    That's the issue with Paris: she's meant to have been significant and in the end her backstory is just an excuse for Bond to bed her faster.

    it doesn't fit the character. Bond closes the book on anything in the past.
    Sex with his ex for Queen and Country? Now there's an Austin Powers title if I ever saw one. And how many vodka's does he need to drink to bed her again?
    I'm sorry, but it makes Bond look weak as can be. It's just not Bond. He wouldn't do that at all.

    To be fair, Fleming’s Bond constantly gets smitten with a new girl, and at the very least we learn that things got serious with Tiffany Case before it fell apart. So I don’t think Bond developing feelings is beyond the pale, and him pretty much abandoning her once he realized he was getting too attached fits in with a guy who when last got close to someone died.

    Getting smitten isn't the problem, it's the supposedly going back that doesn't work. As @revelator said, he'd be more worried about what vesper would think, but above all try to avoid running into exes. In no way can I see him think ' I closed that chapter, let's open it up so I can get close to her husband'. He'd find it a distraction, not a tool.
    And indeed, Teri was as miscast as they come.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,807
    Regarding the new direction after DAD there were the real world events of 9/11 and the War on Terrorism in play. I don't know if that was mentioned earlier. To me it wasn't so much about Bourne.
  • Posts: 15,124
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Paris is severely underwritten, for sure, but we could have that argument about most 'secondary' Bond girls.

    I cant help but think if they had cast Monica Bellucci, as originally planned, she would have played out better on screen. At least there may have been more allure and charisma in her. Teri Hatcher was a poor choice.

    I read somewhere that her and Pierce didn't get on, and she really phones it in. Pierce had to try and find some measure of chemistry all on his own.

    Most secondary Bond girls are not meant to be of much importance for Bond. Problem is that they gave a backstory to Paris Carver she could not live up to. Casting Monica Bellucci would not have solved the all the problems, but at least you'd have an actress who is both sexy and charismatic. Her mere presence would have made the backstory more believable. With Hatcher, Paris is good looking and has a great body. And that's it.
  • JamesCraigJamesCraig Ancient Rome
    edited February 2020 Posts: 3,497
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Paris is severely underwritten, for sure, but we could have that argument about most 'secondary' Bond girls.

    I cant help but think if they had cast Monica Bellucci, as originally planned, she would have played out better on screen. At least there may have been more allure and charisma in her. Teri Hatcher was a poor choice.

    I read somewhere that her and Pierce didn't get on, and she really phones it in. Pierce had to try and find some measure of chemistry all on his own.

    Most secondary Bond girls are not meant to be of much importance for Bond. Problem is that they gave a backstory to Paris Carver she could not live up to. Casting Monica Bellucci would not have solved the all the problems, but at least you'd have an actress who is both sexy and charismatic. Her mere presence would have made the backstory more believable. With Hatcher, Paris is good looking and has a great body. And that's it.

    Hatcher is an awful actress. Plus her character had some of the most atrocious dialogue in the entire franchise.
  • Posts: 2,918
    Regarding the new direction after DAD there were the real world events of 9/11 and the War on Terrorism in play. I don't know if that was mentioned earlier. To me it wasn't so much about Bourne.

    DAD was released a year after 9/11 and did extremely well--audiences were initially quite happy to enjoy over-the-top escapism. Then the Iraq War happened and the "war on terror," the national mood started to sour, and audiences became more receptive to the Bourne films and grittier spy movies in general.
  • Birdleson wrote: »
    Regarding the new direction after DAD there were the real world events of 9/11 and the War on Terrorism in play.

    That was something that was stressed quite a bit at the time. The producers felt that the direction that they had been going in came off as trite, silly and naive Post-9/11.

    Yeah, this is an interesting and important discussion point re: the film. I find it interesting, using 9/11 as a lens, seeing the more fantastical elements playing like pure escapist mirage/vision. Some ludicrous daydream with an unkillable hero at the center.

    On the flip side, the success of films like the Bourne series, tonally, certainly signaled a shift in the zeitgeist of big-budget cinema. DAD is compelling when read within the socio-political context of its release.
  • Posts: 1,708
    Hatcher did fine as MacGyvers naive gf Penny Parker and as Lois Lane
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,807
    Yeah, this is an interesting and important discussion point re: the film. I find it interesting, using 9/11 as a lens, seeing the more fantastical elements playing like pure escapist mirage/vision. Some ludicrous daydream with an unkillable hero at the center.

    On the flip side, the success of films like the Bourne series, tonally, certainly signaled a shift in the zeitgeist of big-budget cinema. DAD is compelling when read within the socio-political context of its release.
    It's also the path back to Fleming. The Bond character is born from Fleming's wartime experiences, to continue fighting them through the Cold War and beyond. It's natural that real world events could align the use of Casino Royale and Bond films as relevant to a modern fight between good and evil.

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Hatcher is a fine actress, but she was severely miscast and didn't have any chemistry with Brosnan. If I'm correct, she was basically pushed onto EON by MGM much like Denise Richards was. Was Halle Berry the same case? I can't help but feel like there was a very different dynamic with MGM during the Brosnan era where they held more sway, and by the time CR was made with Sony as co-producers that particular sway was gone.
  • Posts: 12,473
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I believe that in this one I truly am alone, always have been. I enjoy Teri Hatcher in the role.

    @Birdleson Make it two :) agreed.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I believe that in this one I truly am alone, always have been. I enjoy Teri Hatcher in the role.

    @Birdleson Make it two :) agreed.

    +3.
  • Posts: 1,917
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I love Connery's wobbly gunbarrel. The man actually looks like he could surprise someone, so do George and Timmy. I'd say those are the best gunbarrels.

    I agree on the Dalton and Lazenby gunbarrels, especially Dalton's. He just looks so confident and smooth. So thankful they didn't do another take on the jumping from the rough cut.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    suavejmf wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I believe that in this one I truly am alone, always have been. I enjoy Teri Hatcher in the role.

    @Birdleson Make it two :) agreed.

    +3.

    +4.

    Liking Teri Hatcher's Mrs. Carver seems to be more of a controversial opinion than disliking her. But I'm glad she got to be a Bond girl, especially after this prescient clip made two years prior to TND:



    Or maybe I just like the idea of Remington Steele and Lois Lane sharing a secret past together?
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited February 2020 Posts: 5,131
    suavejmf wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I believe that in this one I truly am alone, always have been. I enjoy Teri Hatcher in the role.

    @Birdleson Make it two :) agreed.

    +3.

    +4.

    Liking Teri Hatcher's Mrs. Carver seems to be more of a controversial opinion than disliking her. But I'm glad she got to be a Bond girl, especially after this prescient clip made two years prior to TND:



    Or maybe I just like the idea of Remington Steele and Lois Lane sharing a secret past together?

    She was fine in the film. It was Jonathan ‘hammy acting/ pantomime dame’ Pryce that was the issue!
  • Daniel316Daniel316 United States
    Posts: 210
    Yeah sure totally, We get the picture. Teri Hatcher was one of the issues of TND alongside characters like Gupta and Stamper not getting development they needed mainly due to having scenes cut to make the film under 2 hours, which wasn't needed tbh.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    BT3366 wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I love Connery's wobbly gunbarrel. The man actually looks like he could surprise someone, so do George and Timmy. I'd say those are the best gunbarrels.

    I agree on the Dalton and Lazenby gunbarrels, especially Dalton's. He just looks so confident and smooth. So thankful they didn't do another take on the jumping from the rough cut.



    Quite literally dodged a bullet.
  • Gustav_TrevelyanGustav_Trevelyan The Triskelion, Washington D.C.
    edited March 2020 Posts: 9
    - Goldfinger is a bit overrated. Although it may have indeed cemented the Bond formula, the movie itself hasn't quite aged too well. The pacing feels a tad slow, Bond seems like a bit of an idiot and the way he makes Pussy Galore abandon Goldfinger was rather, well, rough and creepy. Oh and Auric Goldfinger just popping up in the plane at the end was also rather odd. Overall it is still a great Bond movie, but it has many glaring flaws that imo can't really be overlooked.

    - A View To A Kill is a bit overhated. For one thing, there's certainly no denying that Moore was a bit old by that time. On the other hand, even then he still pulled it off and gave one last great performance as Bond, though as much as I love Moore, it was time for him to go after this one. The villain Max Zorin was also great, and was well complimented by May Day as his henchwoman. If anything, it's somewhat like an 80s version of Goldfinger, but with better pacing and without some of the flaws in it. Really the only weakest link in AVTAK is Stacy Sutton, who was almost insufferable.

    - Personally I have always thought that the Pierce Brosnan era is very overhated. Tomorrow Never Dies is a really great second entry in his era, giving a very classic Bond adventure with a wild, yet realistic villain in Elliot Carver, great action sequences, a great Bond girl with Wai Lin and an excellent debut soundtrack by David Arnold. The World is Not Enough is good as well, though the plot seemed messier and the tone felt more melodramatic, so as such it doesn't quite hold up as well as GE and TND, or even DAD. As far as Die Another Day is concerned, having watched it several times, I have to say the negative hype around this movie is just borderline echo-chambery. It's a good mix of seriousness and classic 70s-esque campiness with a great villain in Gustav Graves, an underrated Bond girl in Jinx, a great henchwoman, great action sequences and a good revenge plot with an over-the-top yet psychopathic and warmongering villain. It also has what is, in my opinion, David Arnold's single greatest Bond soundtrack from his time as Bond composer. Personally, it's Brosnan's 2nd best entry in the series for me, next to GE, and in my personal top 5 of the franchise as well.

    - In contrast, the Daniel Craig era is overrated. Having said my thoughts on his era before, I'll keep them short and straight to the point here. My main issues with the Craig era are that the franchise has been turned into needlessly dark and gritty nonsense that clearly came on the heels of Bourne and Nolan Batman, as well as the fact that the movies are so connected between each other. As for the movies, first of all, Casino Royale is something I personally never thought was that great. However, it is still fairly enjoyable with good characters. Quantum of Solace, while butchered by the writer's strike, is also a fairly decent entry and wraps up the CR story nicely, or would have. Skyfall however is where it goes completely off-rails and is honestly just completely awful, with a non-sensical disjointed storyline, terrible characters, a terrible soundtrack and bad action sequences, on top of suddenly jumping to "Bond is old, how will he be relevant now?". Spectre however is even worse, as it copies scene after scene and trope after trope from previous Bond movies to hide a story ripped off from The Winter Soldier, as well as a terrible "reimagined" Blofeld who is now Bond's evil brother who became evil because "Bond was treated better" and a hamfisted attempt to make Spectre look more threatening by making them "the author of all Bond's pain", if you catch my drift. And as such, I am not too optimistic about how No Time To Die will turn out. If anything, I doubt I will be seeing it in theaters.
  • Daniel316Daniel316 United States
    Posts: 210
    +1
  • edited March 2020 Posts: 1,708
    What i meant was that computers were more main stream in 1995 whereas 1985 it was in the stone age so in that sense it was ahead of its time , perhaps too ahead then. I also find it realistic , at least afa Bond plots are concerned.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited March 2020 Posts: 5,131
    Daniel316 wrote: »
    Yeah sure totally, We get the picture. Teri Hatcher was one of the issues of TND alongside characters like Gupta and Stamper not getting development they needed mainly due to having scenes cut to make the film under 2 hours, which wasn't needed tbh.

    Nope. Not what I said. The main issue is the weak villain.

    I think the idea of a media mogul as a Bond villain is quite clever and timely for the beginning of the 21st century, now if only they cast someone remotely interesting. Johnathan Pryce had zero charisma and his awful overacting didn’t help matters. I find it hard to believe him in the role of a headlines-obsessed, power-hungry megalomaniac. For want of a better word he is a fanny.

    I find him to be a weak villain in every sense of the word. When Bond finally offed him with his own sea drill it wasn’t a moment too soon. The embarrassment of a pathetic, overacted, pantomime dame was over.

    One of the best villains is Franz Sanchez...In an unusual brutal outing, Sanchez is a Bond villain free of gimmicks, but Robert Davi's intense antagonist is the perfect match for Timothy Dalton's more sober Bond – one of the few Bond villains to be genuinely, properly scary.
  • Posts: 1,917
    - Goldfinger is a bit overrated. Although it may have indeed cemented the Bond formula, the movie itself hasn't quite aged too well. The pacing feels a tad slow, Bond seems like a bit of an idiot and the way he makes Pussy Galore abandon Goldfinger was rather, well, rough and creepy. Oh and Auric Goldfinger just popping up in the plane at the end was also rather odd. Overall it is still a great Bond movie, but it has many glaring flaws that imo can't really be overlooked.

    - A View To A Kill is a bit overhated. For one thing, there's certainly no denying that Moore was a bit old by that time. On the other hand, even then he still pulled it off and gave one last great performance as Bond, though as much as I love Moore, it was time for him to go after this one. The villain Max Zorin was also great, and was well complimented by May Day as his henchwoman. If anything, it's somewhat like an 80s version of Goldfinger, but with better pacing and without some of the flaws in it. Really the only weakest link in AVTAK is Stacy Sutton, who was almost insufferable.
    While I also have expressed my feelings about GF being a bit overrated, in no way, shape or form could I ever call anything in AVTAK better. I find it the worst paced of Glen's films, especially from when Bond arrives in San Francisco up until the city hall scenes possibly the slowest and most boring stretch in the series. The tone is all over the place from unnecessary comedy to overly serious, with Moore's performance following this as well.

    I don't see where Bond is an idiot in GF. In what instances would those be? The villain popping up at the end was a Bond tradition which actually began in FRWL when Klebb showed up as the maid in Bond's hotel room. I like the way that's handled.
  • RyanRyan Canada
    Posts: 692
    Octopussy wrote: »
    BT3366 wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I love Connery's wobbly gunbarrel. The man actually looks like he could surprise someone, so do George and Timmy. I'd say those are the best gunbarrels.

    I agree on the Dalton and Lazenby gunbarrels, especially Dalton's. He just looks so confident and smooth. So thankful they didn't do another take on the jumping from the rough cut.



    Quite literally dodged a bullet.

    The timing doesn't help matters. The blood is a quarter of the way down the screen before he even fires! I'm glad they went for his other (much better) take.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Controversial - The LALD score is the coolest and best none Barry score of the series.
  • Posts: 12,473
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Controversial - The LALD score is the coolest and best none Barry score of the series.

    If not for David Arnold I’d probably agree with that.
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