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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited March 2020 Posts: 5,131
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    ThighsOfXenia wrote: »
    IGotABrudder wrote: »
    Yes, this. There are flashes of emotion in many of Roger’s movies, not sustained emotion admittedly, but still brief glimpses of Bond’s feelings or fears, a crack in the facade. Dalton was good at expressing inner emotion too.

    I'll add an unpopular/controversial opinion here, to comment on this -- I think Moore's ability to imbue Bond with humanity is often criminally underrated. I agree with you, these are more flashes of emotion, brief glimpses, a crack in the façade. Those are all great word choices, and I think they're really befitting of Bond as a character. There is more nuance to his portrayal than he is often credited with.

    The obvious examples here are from FYEO, particularly, but there are shades of it in all of his films, even the Gilbert ones which are more known for depicting Bond as unflappable superhero.

    My love for Moore's Bond only grows as time passes.
    The only reason people don't see his acting prowess is his own selfdeprication. The man was too stylish and friendly for beeing an actor. I think his Bond incarnation is far, far better than is usually accepted. Take his scene from Tswlm when he tells xxx he killed her lover. I'm not saying no other actor could've pulled it off, just that he does it extremely well

    Agreed.
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Brosnan Era defenders will disagree, Brosnan Era haters will disagree as well, but in my opinion the single best thing that came out of Pierce's reign is Eric Serra's avant-garde GE score.

    Very funny my friend. In my opinion the single best thing that came out of Pierce's reign is David Arnold’s Barryesque score after the nightmare of Serra.
  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 7,616
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Brosnan Era defenders will disagree, Brosnan Era haters will disagree as well, but in my opinion the single best thing that came out of Pierce's reign is Eric Serra's avant-garde GE score.

    For me, it would be Daniel Kleinman, though I am hoping he improves on his work from SF and SP!
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    edited March 2020 Posts: 4,078
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Brosnan Era defenders will disagree, Brosnan Era haters will disagree as well, but in my opinion the single best thing that came out of Pierce's reign is Eric Serra's avant-garde GE score.

    Very funny my friend. In my opinion the single best thing that came out of Pierce's reign is David Arnold’s Barryesque score after the nightmare of Serra.

    +1
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,217
    If I had to choose between Serra’s GE score and Arnold’s generic music...

    Serra all the way, baby.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,999
    Arnold (Brosnan era) > Sera > Arnold (Craig era).

    Arnolds scores were better back when the Bond theme was used. And no, i'm not counting a few throwaway bars in the film and the the end credits.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited March 2020 Posts: 8,217
    Arnold’s use of the theme (during Brosnan era, of course) was excessive, TND going to the point of parody.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,999
    Excessive is the Bond theme in the early films when they weren't quite sure how best to use it. Arnold used it just fine. Personally, I would rather it be there, than not.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,217
    In FRWL like when Bond is checking for bugs? Agreed. I prefer how Barry used it from GF and onward where it was used sparingly with more emphasis on original cues whether based on title songs or action motifs. Arnold pulling back with CR and QOS was fine because it made the theme cues stand out more.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,078
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    If I had to choose between Serra’s GE score and Arnold’s generic music...

    Serra all the way, baby.

    Well there's no accounting for taste.... ;)
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    Posts: 17,819
    Barry, Arnold or any other composer could have made a complete score only using the Bond theme for all I care. I'd still enjoy it.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,078
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    Barry, Arnold or any other composer could have made a complete score only using the Bond theme for all I care. I'd still enjoy it.

    Michael Kamen almost did... ;)
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,208
    Arnold's best Bond score is QOS by far. The rest is fine but lacks personality.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    LeonardPine wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    If I had to choose between Serra’s GE score and Arnold’s generic music...

    Serra all the way, baby.

    Well there's no accounting for taste.... ;)

    +1
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    Barry, Arnold or any other composer could have made a complete score only using the Bond theme for all I care. I'd still enjoy it.


    Yep. It’s a BOND film after all.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 16,226
    Eric Serra is not only the greatest Bond composer, but also the greatest person who ever lived.

    Actually there's quite a bit I enjoy in his GE soundtrack, though I feel overall it makes the film not hold up as well as some of the other Brosnan's.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,078
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Eric Serra is not only the greatest Bond composer, but also the greatest person who ever lived.

    Actually there's quite a bit I enjoy in his GE soundtrack, though I feel overall it makes the film not hold up as well as some of the other Brosnan's.

    Some of his score is pretty good, and I own it, but to say he is better than David Arnold is laughable as well as ludicrous.

    But as we know, some people have no taste 😉
  • ThighsOfXeniaThighsOfXenia
    Posts: 1,596
    Count me in for a defender of Serra's idiosyncratic sensibilities. A few tracks in the film don't work that well, but that's okay, it's a sign that there's something interesting going on. I really, really dig Serra's score. Genuinely. Something new, while still somehow working within that Bond feel.

    I do think Arnold overcooked the Bond theme a bit with TND, but I still can't help but admire him throwing everything he had at it, not knowing if he'd ever get to do it again. The following two scores, however, I think are really overcooked.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,217
    Controversial opinion:

    Not only is “Surrender” NOT a good title song, but EON made the right decision in rejecting it, even though I don’t care for Sheryl Crow’s effort.
  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,507
    As we know there are dinner jackets and dinner jackets. And there are different tastes... and some tastes that are just wrong...

    That is all I have to say about this discussion ;) :P
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    LeonardPine wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Eric Serra is not only the greatest Bond composer, but also the greatest person who ever lived.

    Actually there's quite a bit I enjoy in his GE soundtrack, though I feel overall it makes the film not hold up as well as some of the other Brosnan's.

    Some of his score is pretty good, and I own it, but to say he is better than David Arnold is laughable as well as ludicrous.

    But as we know, some people have no taste 😉

    +1
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    ThighsOfXenia wrote: »
    Count me in for a defender of Serra's idiosyncratic sensibilities. A few tracks in the film don't work that well, but that's okay, it's a sign that there's something interesting going on. I really, really dig Serra's score. Genuinely. Something new, while still somehow working within that Bond feel.

    I do think Arnold overcooked the Bond theme a bit with TND, but I still can't help but admire him throwing everything he had at it, not knowing if he'd ever get to do it again. The following two scores, however, I think are really overcooked.

    Arnold used it after Serra disrespected it. The producers were reportedly thrilled with Arnold’s TND score. Serra....not so much. No ‘step in’ was required by other composers when Arnold had the job. Very telling IMO.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited March 2020 Posts: 7,208
    suavejmf wrote: »
    LeonardPine wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Eric Serra is not only the greatest Bond composer, but also the greatest person who ever lived.

    Actually there's quite a bit I enjoy in his GE soundtrack, though I feel overall it makes the film not hold up as well as some of the other Brosnan's.

    Some of his score is pretty good, and I own it, but to say he is better than David Arnold is laughable as well as ludicrous.

    But as we know, some people have no taste 😉

    +1

    My goodness, just because someone else has a different opinion, he/she has no taste? [-X
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,078
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    LeonardPine wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Eric Serra is not only the greatest Bond composer, but also the greatest person who ever lived.

    Actually there's quite a bit I enjoy in his GE soundtrack, though I feel overall it makes the film not hold up as well as some of the other Brosnan's.

    Some of his score is pretty good, and I own it, but to say he is better than David Arnold is laughable as well as ludicrous.

    But as we know, some people have no taste 😉

    +1

    My goodness, just because someone else has a different opinion, he/she has no taste? [-X

    My own comment about taste was tongue in cheek, hence the winking emoji 👍
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    Arnold’s use of the theme (during Brosnan era, of course) was excessive, TND going to the point of parody.

    Agreed. The Bond Theme loses it's impact when used all the time.
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    In FRWL like when Bond is checking for bugs? Agreed. I prefer how Barry used it from GF and onward where it was used sparingly with more emphasis on original cues whether based on title songs or action motifs. Arnold pulling back with CR and QOS was fine because it made the theme cues stand out more.

    Agreed. Casino Royale is Arnold's best work in the Bond franchise for that exact reason, IMO. The moments you hear the Bond cue in the film really stand out for the reason you've stated and make your hairs stand on end. It also creates more emphasise around these moments as a result. In Dr. No and From Russia With Love I agree that they used it at inappropriate times, but I can excuse this as this was early on in the franchise.
    ThighsOfXenia wrote: »
    Count me in for a defender of Serra's idiosyncratic sensibilities. A few tracks in the film don't work that well, but that's okay, it's a sign that there's something interesting going on. I really, really dig Serra's score. Genuinely. Something new, while still somehow working within that Bond feel.

    I do think Arnold overcooked the Bond theme a bit with TND, but I still can't help but admire him throwing everything he had at it, not knowing if he'd ever get to do it again. The following two scores, however, I think are really overcooked.

    +1

    There's a balancing act between using the Bond cue respectfully and then overusing it and I do feel that Serra struck that balance well, IMO. Barry created his own action tracks and therefore didn't need use the Bond theme constantly throughout his soundtracks, I feel that Serra did the same.

  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,208
    LeonardPine wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    LeonardPine wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Eric Serra is not only the greatest Bond composer, but also the greatest person who ever lived.

    Actually there's quite a bit I enjoy in his GE soundtrack, though I feel overall it makes the film not hold up as well as some of the other Brosnan's.

    Some of his score is pretty good, and I own it, but to say he is better than David Arnold is laughable as well as ludicrous.

    But as we know, some people have no taste 😉

    +1

    My goodness, just because someone else has a different opinion, he/she has no taste? [-X

    My own comment about taste was tongue in cheek, hence the winking emoji 👍

    No hard feelings than :)

  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 16,226
    I do think Arnold overused the Bond theme on occasion. Barry didn't always gives us a full representation of the Bond theme in his films, but rather interwove chords and melodies throughout.
    In this day and age, though, I'd welcome a slight overuse of the Bond theme with open arms.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I do think Arnold overused the Bond theme on occasion. Barry didn't always gives us a full representation of the Bond theme in his films, but rather interwove chords and melodies throughout.
    In this day and age, though, I'd welcome a slight overuse of the Bond theme with open arms.

    Arnold used it after Serra disrespected it.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,208
    suavejmf wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I do think Arnold overused the Bond theme on occasion. Barry didn't always gives us a full representation of the Bond theme in his films, but rather interwove chords and melodies throughout.
    In this day and age, though, I'd welcome a slight overuse of the Bond theme with open arms.

    Arnold used it after Serra disrespected it.

    Not quite, The GoldenEye Ouverture is a magnificently atmospherical piece of music and makes excellent use of the Bond Theme. Arnold has done some nice things but he has never matched that.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,331
    Serra made GE feel like a parallel universe, whereas if there was any film that should've felt like a continuation of what existed before, it's GE. Every time I watch it my mind goes 'oh yeah, that terrible soundtrack'. Works with the mime artist though. Bonds Batman moment.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I do think Arnold overused the Bond theme on occasion. Barry didn't always gives us a full representation of the Bond theme in his films, but rather interwove chords and melodies throughout.
    In this day and age, though, I'd welcome a slight overuse of the Bond theme with open arms.

    Arnold used it after Serra disrespected it.

    Not quite, The GoldenEye Ouverture is a magnificently atmospherical piece of music and makes excellent use of the Bond Theme. Arnold has done some nice things but he has never matched that.

    Ok the Gunbarrel and pre-title sequence score was good. It went downhill from the car chase.
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