Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Benny wrote:
    *Goldfinger is slightly overrated by fans.

    I would actually argue the complete opposite here.

    GF is regarded by media cretins when they do their top 10 lists and the general public at large as being the quintessential Bond film whereas on here I find theres a lot of people who rate it somewhere around the middle if not lower. I may well be wrong but I dont know many members whose opinions I respect who rate it top 5.

    However the fact is that it is the quintessential cinematic Bond film. Its got it all as well as being pretty faithful to Fleming. It really should be a mainstay of everyones top 5.

    Having said that I only rate it midtable myself.


  • I'm not a particular fan of Goldfinger either to be honest. Always preferred Thunderball
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    LeighBurne wrote:
    I'm not a particular fan of Goldfinger either to be honest. Always preferred Thunderball

    There we part company. Dont know if this is controversial or not but I loathe TB and really cannot fathom why a lot of people rate it so highly.

    OK so it is reasonably faithful to the book but dear Christ its dulllllll. Dont get me wrong its not the worst but I have to say if I find DAF and if I am willing to switch my brain off DAD more entertaining. If you remove the scenes with Fiona there really isnt much there to hold your attention.
  • Posts: 1,052
    LeighBurne wrote:
    I'm not a particular fan of Goldfinger either to be honest. Always preferred Thunderball

    There we part company. Dont know if this is controversial or not but I loathe TB and really cannot fathom why a lot of people rate it so highly.

    OK so it is reasonably faithful to the book but dear Christ its dulllllll. Dont get me wrong its not the worst but I have to say if I find DAF and if I am willing to switch my brain off DAD more entertaining. If you remove the scenes with Fiona there really isnt much there to hold your attention.

    TB is definitley one that has never really grabbed me, I have often wondered if the tailing off in Bond's box office was due to TB, as it was the most watched one.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    LeighBurne wrote:
    I'm not a particular fan of Goldfinger either to be honest. Always preferred Thunderball

    There we part company. Dont know if this is controversial or not but I loathe TB and really cannot fathom why a lot of people rate it so highly.

    OK so it is reasonably faithful to the book but dear Christ its dulllllll. Dont get me wrong its not the worst but I have to say if I find DAF and if I am willing to switch my brain off DAD more entertaining. If you remove the scenes with Fiona there really isnt much there to hold your attention.

    TB is definitley one that has never really grabbed me, I have often wondered if the tailing off in Bond's box office was due to TB, as it was the most watched one.

    Calvindyson makes a good point in his review of TB saying that the reason it was the highest grossing was people thought they were going to get another GF. I certainly think that the drop off in box office for YOLT probably has as much to do with viewer apathy after being disappointed in TB and a sense of Bond fatigue - 5 films in 5 years - that with the lacklustre TB seemed to show inspiration was starting to dry up as it has with CR67 actually nicking some of its box office.
  • RC7RC7
    edited August 2013 Posts: 10,512
    LeighBurne wrote:
    I'm not a particular fan of Goldfinger either to be honest. Always preferred Thunderball

    There we part company. Dont know if this is controversial or not but I loathe TB and really cannot fathom why a lot of people rate it so highly.

    OK so it is reasonably faithful to the book but dear Christ its dulllllll. Dont get me wrong its not the worst but I have to say if I find DAF and if I am willing to switch my brain off DAD more entertaining. If you remove the scenes with Fiona there really isnt much there to hold your attention.

    TB is definitley one that has never really grabbed me, I have often wondered if the tailing off in Bond's box office was due to TB, as it was the most watched one.

    Calvindyson makes a good point in his review of TB saying that the reason it was the highest grossing was people thought they were going to get another GF. I certainly think that the drop off in box office for YOLT probably has as much to do with viewer apathy after being disappointed in TB and a sense of Bond fatigue - 5 films in 5 years - that with the lacklustre TB seemed to show inspiration was starting to dry up as it has with CR67 actually nicking some of its box office.

    Yes, this was the point I was going to raise. I think it's absolutely the case. As a blueprint GF is close to Raiders. It's incredibly tight and stylish and very inventive. To me I've always seen it as adding some much needed cinematic spunk after FRWL. While I respect and enjoy FRWL, it still feels to me that it's very much of it's time, whereas GF is timeless. TB attempted to capitalise on the nuances introduced by Hamilton in GF, but instead of keeping it trim it ended up being tragically flabby. Save a few memorable moments, such as the MI6 briefing scene, Largo's shark pool, the casino face-off, it has nowhere near the kinetic energy of GF. Even when GF slows up during the Auric Stud scenes, it still feels alive. Connery seems effervescent and infinitely charming while Gert Frobe is commanding in every scene he's in. It's proof that bigger isn't always better. A recently example that popped into my head is the gulf between POTC: Black Pearl and POTC: DMC. They'd stumbled upon a great combination of character and action in the original and immediately thought that upping the scale and shooting sequels back to back was the way to go. Financially they were justified, creatively they were stifled and that franchises momentum has suddenly been snuffed out.

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,287
    LeighBurne wrote:
    I'm not a particular fan of Goldfinger either to be honest. Always preferred Thunderball

    There we part company. Dont know if this is controversial or not but I loathe TB and really cannot fathom why a lot of people rate it so highly.

    OK so it is reasonably faithful to the book but dear Christ its dulllllll. Dont get me wrong its not the worst but I have to say if I find DAF and if I am willing to switch my brain off DAD more entertaining. If you remove the scenes with Fiona there really isnt much there to hold your attention.

    Once again, we agree, WoI. A good half hour could have been cut from this film (what happened, Peter Hunt?), although to be fair I guess underwater photography was quite original back then. Fiona was clearly the highlight.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    RC7 wrote:
    *Diana Rigg really isn't that good looking.

    I say this based on the fact a lot of Bond fans I have met tend to feel the opposite. I've always thought her to be one of the least good looking, even in The Avengers as Emma Peel, the catsuit just wasn't enough I'm afraid. I always thought she had a slightly weathered smoker's face and her nose is distractingly upturned. I'd rank most Bond girls above her in terms of looks. I'd lump her in with Ekland as being wildly overrated.
    I think that I understand where you're coming from but it comes off as a little rude. No, she's not quite the supermodel that other Bond girls have been but this works to the advantage of the story. She's not supposed to be pure male fantasy like Ursula Andress in a bikini was. She's real and accessible.

    RC7 wrote:
    As a blueprint GF is close to Raiders. It's incredibly tight and stylish and very inventive. To me I've always seen it as adding some much needed cinematic spunk after FRWL. While I respect and enjoy FRWL, it still feels to me that it's very much of it's time, whereas GF is timeless. TB attempted to capitalise on the nuances introduced by Hamilton in GF, but instead of keeping it trim it ended up being tragically flabby. It's proof that bigger isn't always better.
    I agree that the need to make things "bigger and better" after GF was a detriment to both TB and YOLT.
  • Posts: 2,402
    The underwater stuff made me pass out for about fifteen seconds when I last watched Thunderball. Not good that it's the only Bond film that's literally made me fall asleep. But the first hour of that film is SO damn good, miles better than Goldfinger. I really don't know where I rank it overall.
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 6,396
    The underwater stuff made me pass out for about fifteen seconds when I last watched Thunderball. Not good that it's the only Bond film that's literally made me fall asleep. But the first hour of that film is SO damn good, miles better than Goldfinger. I really don't know where I rank it overall.

    I struggle with the pace of the film from start to finish. It literally plods along and I just yearn for it to pick it's feet up only then to get to the underwater climax and it goes even slower!

    I always found it ironic that the one and only Bond film Kevin McClory was allowed to remake was one of the most boring :-)
  • Posts: 2,483
    I can see why some find TB boring, but I do not. The plot is quite clear, the characters are compelling, the stakes are very high, and I like the underwater stuff. Consequently TB always holds my attention quite well.
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 2,402
    I do like the underwater stuff on paper, and in general, but there's at least ten minutes too much of the stuff. It's beautifully shot but it grinds the film to a halt and goes on much, much too long. Thunderball definitely is ranked higher for me, though, because it has the best score in the entire series.

    Also, I'm not sure how controversial this is, as his reception I find is generally mixed more than negative, but David Arnold is the best Bond composer, not counting John Barry.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    I can see why some find TB boring, but I do not. The plot is quite clear, the characters are compelling, the stakes are very high, and I like the underwater stuff. Consequently TB always holds my attention quite well.

    Same here, and among the best Bond girls of all time.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    chrisisall wrote:
    I can see why some find TB boring, but I do not. The plot is quite clear, the characters are compelling, the stakes are very high, and I like the underwater stuff. Consequently TB always holds my attention quite well.

    Same here, and among the best Bond girls of all time.

    Gonna have to third this one. I have no issues with Thunderball what so ever. :)
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 3,236
    Thunderball is ultimately a mediocre entry for me. When it's good, it's great, like any scene involving Fiona Volpe, or the briefing scenes (both MI6 and SPECTRE). But when it's bad, it's awful, like Connery running roughshod over all things SPECTRE, and the compulsion to have every other scene underwater. On the whole, the film is bloated and too aware of its own success and is desperately trying to catch lightning in a bottle twice, which failed, as it always does.

    A few more controversial opinions:

    1. There should have been another film between Quantum of Solace and Skyfall. The turnaround from "you're too young and hotheaded" to "you're too old and injured" is too quick.

    2. Casino Royale, Quantum of Solace, and Skyfall all take place before Dr. No, and all the Bond movies are in one continuity.

    3. I don't mind the gun barrel in Die Another Day. In fact, Die Another Day was probably my first Bond, and I didn't like the difference in the other films.

    I was 9, give me a break.

    4. Brosnan's suits were the best in GoldenEye, though his hairdo was the worst.

    5. Licence to Kill has some hilarious line readings (mostly unintentional, I'd assume).
  • Posts: 169
    3. I don't mind the gun barrel in Die Another Day. In fact, Die Another Day was probably my first Bond, and I didn't like the difference in the other films.

    I was 9, give me a break.

    I saw my first Bond at age 9, as well. But that was LALD - now I feel old.
  • Posts: 169
    I can see why some find TB boring, but I do not. The plot is quite clear, the characters are compelling, the stakes are very high, and I like the underwater stuff. Consequently TB always holds my attention quite well.

    Agreed. I used to think it was rather dull. Maybe my attention span and/or patience has been improving.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Dr_Yes wrote:
    Agreed. I used to think it was rather dull. Maybe my attention span and/or patience has been improving.
    I first saw it in the movies (re-released) at age 13- never a dull moment, then or now.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    :

    1. There should have been another film between Quantum of Solace and Skyfall. The turnaround from "you're too young and hotheaded" to "you're too old and injured" is too quick.

    Not controversial in the slightest. Especially given that QOS is just an epilogue to CR.
    I would say 2 films and make SF Craigs last film (although Judi is knocking on so another 5-7 years down the line might be a bit far for her to still be credible - but we're talking in an ideal world here).
    2. Casino Royale, Quantum of Solace, and Skyfall all take place before Dr. No, and all the Bond movies are in one continuity.

    This is rapidly rising to be as irritating as the code name theory.

    5. Licence to Kill has some hilarious line readings (mostly unintentional, I'd assume).

    'We gave her a nice honeymoooooon' and 'I love James so much' are stand outs but remarkably the worst ones belong to the best actor in the film:

    'Things were about to turn nasty' is just bizarre but my favourite has to be 'COME ON' nearly shattering Pam's ear drums despite the fact shes only standing about 2 feet away.
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 11,189
    I actually quite like the "nice honeymooooon" line. Del Torro really makes it sound sinister.

    Something has bugged me for sometime now about the exchange:

    "you know we...we have laws in this country too"
    "do you have a law against what they did to Leiter"

    It just sounds a bit...cheesey to me.
  • BAIN123 wrote:
    I actually quite like the "nice honeymooooon" line. Del Torro really makes it sound sinister.
    Yeah, something about the way del Toro says it makes it work for me.
    'Things were about to turn nasty' is just bizarre but my favourite has to be 'COME ON' nearly shattering Pam's ear drums despite the fact shes only standing about 2 feet away.
    For the first, yeah, what the hell was going on with his accent in that one. As for the second, I assumed he was yelling to anyone else who may still be trapped inside the burning building. No need for all the peasant labour to go up in flames too.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I actually quite like the "nice honeymooooon" line. Del Torro really makes it sound sinister.

    Something has bugged me for sometime now about the exchange:

    "you know we...we have laws in this country too"
    "do you have a law against what you did to Leiter"

    It just sounds a bit...cheesey to me.

    I agree. Its one of the reasons I prefer TLD over LTK. Dalton seems just a bit too hammy in LTK - is that a controversial opinion Daltonites?
  • I agree. Its one of the reasons I prefer TLD over LTK. Dalton seems just a bit too hammy in LTK - is that a controversial opinion Daltonites?
    I don't know if I'd call him "hammy", but I definitely prefer him in TLD.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    2. Casino Royale, Quantum of Solace, and Skyfall all take place before Dr. No, and all the Bond movies are in one continuity.

    This is rapidly rising to be as irritating as the code name theory.

    Agreed. It's almost as irritating as the awful beat-boxer who insists on performing outside my office window. That, simultaneously coupled with my balls being clamped in a slowly tightening vice.

  • edited August 2013 Posts: 6,396
    2. Casino Royale, Quantum of Solace, and Skyfall all take place before Dr. No, and all the Bond movies are in one continuity.

    This is rapidly rising to be as irritating as the code name theory.

    Yes this annoys me too. Some fans still have trouble getting their head around the fact that the films Dr No through to Die Another Day take place on one timeline and Casino Royale onwards is an alternative timeline. They have no connection to the previous twenty films. That is the essence of a "reboot".
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    2. Casino Royale, Quantum of Solace, and Skyfall all take place before Dr. No, and all the Bond movies are in one continuity.

    This is rapidly rising to be as irritating as the code name theory.

    Yes this annoys me too. Some fans still have trouble getting their head around the fact that the films Dr No through to Die Another Day take place on one timeline and Casino Royale onwards is an alternative timeline. They have no connection to the previous twenty films. That is the essence of a "reboot".

    Some fans are just stoopid.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    LeighBurne wrote:
    I agree. Its one of the reasons I prefer TLD over LTK. Dalton seems just a bit too hammy in LTK - is that a controversial opinion Daltonites?
    I don't know if I'd call him "hammy", but I definitely prefer him in TLD.

    Fair point. Lets just say he seems to have turned the theatrical stuff up to 11 which is often too much for the screen.

    RC7 wrote:

    Agreed. It's almost as irritating as the awful beat-boxer who insists on performing outside my office window. That, simultaneously coupled with my balls being clamped in a slowly tightening vice.

    Where do you work mate? You want to check your terms and conditions as I'm pretty sure there must be some EU employment law that covers that.
    RC7 wrote:
    2. Casino Royale, Quantum of Solace, and Skyfall all take place before Dr. No, and all the Bond movies are in one continuity.

    This is rapidly rising to be as irritating as the code name theory.

    Yes this annoys me too. Some fans still have trouble getting their head around the fact that the films Dr No through to Die Another Day take place on one timeline and Casino Royale onwards is an alternative timeline. They have no connection to the previous twenty films. That is the essence of a "reboot".

    Some fans are just stoopid.

    And alas an alarming number of them seem to find their way on here.

    That said because it is a full reboot it does mean that all of Flemings material is available from scratch if theres the desire and I wouldnt be totally surprised if EON get seduced by the thought of casting a seriously A list actor as Blofeld and bringing back SPECTRE - especially given that Mcclory is dead and buried now.

    Not really sure how I feel about that. On the one hand starting to do remakes could derail the series but then again the concept of someone with serious chops putting in an Oscar winning performance as the villain is pretty hard to resist.

    Cant help feeling that an opportunity was missed at the end of SF when Mallory hands Bond the file. A shot of the file with the name 'Ernst Stavro Blofeld' on it would have made me wet my knickers at the premiere. I'd probably hate the idea now but on the night it would have been spectacular. But probably too blatant a rip off of the end of Batman Begins.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Ha! MI6 in the Craig era aren't competent enough to get ahold of Blofeld's name let alone a whole file on the man.
  • RC7RC7
    edited August 2013 Posts: 10,512

    Where do you work mate? You want to check your terms and conditions as I'm pretty sure there must be some EU employment law that covers that.

    Covent Garden, near the tube. If it's not him, it's some bloke with his megaphone harping on about the horrors of capitalism.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    I agree. Its one of the reasons I prefer TLD over LTK. Dalton seems just a bit too hammy in LTK - is that a controversial opinion Daltonites?
    A little, I'd say...
    b-(
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