Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    jobo wrote: »
    There is no reason why a gay actor should not be able to play Bond.

    100% correct.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Rupert Everett was good looking but very gay so I doubt if EON would have wanted him for their big Alpha male hero.

    Yes I know he is gay. Didnt think that would be a problem though. Seen him in interviews and he comes across a little too posh for the film Bond, but I don't think his sexuality is an issue.

  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,026
    jobo wrote: »
    There is no reason why a gay actor should not be able to play Bond.

    100% correct.

    I agree, since an actor is an actor, and part of that is portraying a character that may not be in line with the actor's own sexual (or other) orientation. It's just that the public expects Bond to be heterosexual for the time being, no matter if the actor in private is gay. In other words, the problem may be less in the actor's personal choice than if the James Bond character were changed to also being gay. The latter, like it or not, may not exactly be to the liking of the majority of Bond fans and therefore would backfire.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    There is no reason why a gay actor should not be able to play Bond.

    100% correct.

    I agree, since an actor is an actor, and part of that is portraying a character that may not be in line with the actor's own sexual (or other) orientation. It's just that the public expects Bond to be heterosexual for the time being, no matter if the actor in private is gay. In other words, the problem may be less in the actor's personal choice than if the James Bond character were changed to also being gay. The latter, like it or not, may not exactly be to the liking of the majority of Bond fans and therefore would backfire.

    why would the character be changed to being gay? Gay actor or not there would be no reason to. You could make him gay without a gay actor playing him.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,779
    Sure, like the Bond actor being American. Not distracting at all.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited May 2020 Posts: 7,546
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    There is no reason why a gay actor should not be able to play Bond.

    100% correct.

    I agree, since an actor is an actor, and part of that is portraying a character that may not be in line with the actor's own sexual (or other) orientation. It's just that the public expects Bond to be heterosexual for the time being, no matter if the actor in private is gay. In other words, the problem may be less in the actor's personal choice than if the James Bond character were changed to also being gay. The latter, like it or not, may not exactly be to the liking of the majority of Bond fans and therefore would backfire.

    Let actors' private lives remain exactly that. I don't care at all about Daniel Craig's heterosexuality in his own life, I don't imagine many others do either.

    Craig wears a flat-cap in his own time. How un-Bond!!

    Shouldn't matter if they're American either, provided they're a good enough actor. The only thing that should (and does) matter is how we'll they're able to portray the character when the cameras are rolling, and the requisite marketing.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Rupert Everett was good looking but very gay so I doubt if EON would have wanted him for their big Alpha male hero.

    Gay men can be big alpha males too.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Rupert Everett was good looking but very gay so I doubt if EON would have wanted him for their big Alpha male hero.

    Gay men can be big alpha males too.

    Exactly. Absolutely nothing wrong with a gay actor in the role. Hasn't Luke Evans been mentioned as a future 007? I believe he is gay but has no problem playing 'straight' parts.
  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    Posts: 2,610
    Welcome, @marc. What do you like?
    Thanks, @NickTwentyTwo :)

    I mainly like the sunnier/lighter atmosphere in the Moore films and in some of the Connery films. TLD is also one of my favourites. And there are many things I like in every Bond film...
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited May 2020 Posts: 7,546
    marc wrote: »
    Welcome, @marc. What do you like?
    Thanks, @NickTwentyTwo :)

    I mainly like the sunnier/lighter atmosphere in the Moore films and in some of the Connery films. TLD is also one of my favourites. And there are many things I like in every Bond film...

    Nice, TLD is a classic favourite of mine as well.

    @FatherValentine I mention Luke Evans every chance I get. ;) He is, and he doesn't.
  • edited May 2020 Posts: 15,111
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Audiences, particularly Americans, thought Hugh Grant was a viable candidate only because he had an English accent. I guess that’s all it takes to qualify. It feels no different than suggesting Richard Gere would have fit as Indiana Jones.

    Still depressing that people think like this. Robbie Williams was also mentioned. Ouch.

    It's this kind of thing that reminds me that, no matter what our issues with the casting of Bond and each actors foibles, EON have always got it right, imo. Some of the names that have been suggestions that I have heard over the years, from either studio bosses, the press, or the public have been nothing short of nightmarish. Cary Grant, Caine, Redford, Gavin, Gibson, Findlay Light, Lambert Wilson, Clive Owen, Brolin, Eric Bana, Hugh Grant, Neeson...

    Not saying these guys couldn't have done a version of Bond, but I'm glad we got who we got. Gives me faith EON will make the right choice next.

    Not to forget Jude Law. Clive Owen I honestly cannot see what people saw on him.

    Had no idea Law was mentioned. Was never a fan of Owen either. I guess every handsome British actor gets mentioned at some point. I know Rupert Everett put his name forward. Don't think I've ever seen him act, but based on his look he didn't seem too bad.

    Every good looking British actor who was seen in a tuxedo. Whether they are manly or not.

    Controversial opinion : I'd rather have relatively unknown veteran actors to play villains, rather than stars or Oscar winning actors.
  • Posts: 15,111
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Rupert Everett was good looking but very gay so I doubt if EON would have wanted him for their big Alpha male hero.

    Gay men can be big alpha males too.

    Exactly. Absolutely nothing wrong with a gay actor in the role. Hasn't Luke Evans been mentioned as a future 007? I believe he is gay but has no problem playing 'straight' parts.

    Evans could give masculinity lessons to many straight men. Everett, not so much.
  • Posts: 7,653
    I am very happy with the enlightened crowd here at MI6 but I expect that the personal life of the actor would be taken very serious these days due to the Social Media and the still very narrow minded ideas some people have over sexuality that is considered different from the so called "accepted society". There are still a lot people not as accepting as you might expect in the western world but certainly less in other markets like middle east. Africa or Asia. I wish it were different.
    James Bond at the end of the day is a tool to make money with and the actor playing him has become an important tool. Craig & Brosnan both have taken very much care of how they showed themselves out there in media land and any slip-up they found their selves in a unwanted media-hype.
    James Bond will remain male, heterosexual, white and British I expect any other choice might end the franchise.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    SaintMark wrote: »
    I am very happy with the enlightened crowd here at MI6 but I expect that the personal life of the actor would be taken very serious these days due to the Social Media and the still very narrow minded ideas some people have over sexuality that is considered different from the so called "accepted society". There are still a lot people not as accepting as you might expect in the western world but certainly less in other markets like middle east. Africa or Asia. I wish it were different.
    James Bond at the end of the day is a tool to make money with and the actor playing him has become an important tool. Craig & Brosnan both have taken very much care of how they showed themselves out there in media land and any slip-up they found their selves in a unwanted media-hype.
    James Bond will remain male, heterosexual, white and British I expect any other choice might end the franchise.

    It's impossible to disagree with anything you've said here. Even still, I'd be disappointed if EON declined casting an actor because they were gay, despite all the correct points you've mentioned. Maybe I'm an idealist, but IMO it's a rational person's responsibility to go to war with homophobia/intolerance.

    It's why I overextend myself fighting things I see as wrong on the boards here at times. :P As some more level headed members here would say, it's best to just move past things you don't agree with, and I agree to a certain extent, but sometimes I feel too you have to make the other opinion known.
  • Agent_OneAgent_One Ireland
    edited May 2020 Posts: 280
    I don't see why a gay actor can't play the usual heterosexual Bond. Character/actor separation is a thing,
  • Posts: 7,507
    One thing is certain: Casting a gay actor to play Bond is a much better way of making a politically correct statement than casting a female Bond.
  • R1s1ngs0nR1s1ngs0n France
    edited May 2020 Posts: 2,148
    Cary Grant was one of the first actors to be considered for the role of James Bond and while not publicized, it was well known he was bi-sexual due to his close relationship to Randolph Scott.
    He was eventually deemed too old at the time hence why he didn’t get the part (or he declined it, can’t remember exactly).
    He would have been a fantastic Bond no doubt, probably in the same tongue in cheek manner of Moore but I can’t honestly have regrets as we got the ultimate Bond in Connery.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737
    R1s1ngs0n wrote: »
    Cary Grant was one of the first actors to be considered for the role of James Bond and while not publicized, it was well known he was bi-sexual due to his close relationship to Randolph Scott.
    He was eventually deemed too old at the time hence why he didn’t get the part (or he declined it, can’t remember exactly).
    He would have been a fantastic Bond no doubt, probably in the same tongue in cheek manner of Moore but I can’t honestly have regrets as we got the ultimate Bond in Connery.

    Just watched Randolph Scott's Budd Boetticher westerns recently and had no idea he was gay/bisexual. He certainly puts to bed the (stupid) idea that a gay/bi man can't play rugged and masculine heterosexual roles. You couldn't find a more masculine man than Randolph Scott!
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737
    SaintMark wrote: »
    I am very happy with the enlightened crowd here at MI6 but I expect that the personal life of the actor would be taken very serious these days due to the Social Media and the still very narrow minded ideas some people have over sexuality that is considered different from the so called "accepted society". There are still a lot people not as accepting as you might expect in the western world but certainly less in other markets like middle east. Africa or Asia. I wish it were different.
    James Bond at the end of the day is a tool to make money with and the actor playing him has become an important tool. Craig & Brosnan both have taken very much care of how they showed themselves out there in media land and any slip-up they found their selves in a unwanted media-hype.
    James Bond will remain male, heterosexual, white and British I expect any other choice might end the franchise.

    It's impossible to disagree with anything you've said here. Even still, I'd be disappointed if EON declined casting an actor because they were gay, despite all the correct points you've mentioned. Maybe I'm an idealist, but IMO it's a rational person's responsibility to go to war with homophobia/intolerance.

    It's why I overextend myself fighting things I see as wrong on the boards here at times. :P As some more level headed members here would say, it's best to just move past things you don't agree with, and I agree to a certain extent, but sometimes I feel too you have to make the other opinion known.

    I agree. I couldn't me a bigger opponent of shallow identity politics, but there is simply no logical reason whatsoever why a gay actor couldn't play a 'straight' role and vice versa. It goes beyond being 'progressive' or fighting homophobia and intolerance (although important of course). It's just pure sense and logic. The same as if an actor was a die hard socialist or whatever - he could still play Bond.

  • Posts: 7,653
    The names mentioned here like Randolph Scott, Cary Grant and so did their best to keep that part of their identity a secret, we learned this about Rock Hudson after his active career.
    I agree it should not be a problem, but a movie industry runs on perceptions and it can kill a career immediately
  • Posts: 15,111
    For the record, I'm all for a gay or bi actor to play Bond. Not Luke Evans specifically (he's too old now and not too sure about his face) , but someone with his skills and his talent. I do think however that they won't cast an openly gay actor for now, fearing a potential controversy.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    Evans is definitely too old at this point.
  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    Posts: 2,610
    Nice, TLD is a classic favourite of mine as well.

    Yes, very entertaining movie, probably my favourite after TSWLM. I really enjoyed the LEGO version someone had posted some days ago: (I had never noticed how close the chasers really were, close to the border)
    vzok wrote: »
    Fortunately, this time it was only a LEGO cello that got damaged.
  • Posts: 16,153
    Ludovico wrote: »
    For the record, I'm all for a gay or bi actor to play Bond. Not Luke Evans specifically (he's too old now and not too sure about his face) , but someone with his skills and his talent. I do think however that they won't cast an openly gay actor for now, fearing a potential controversy.

    My hunch is the media would probably make the casting of an openly gay actor as Bond the primary focus (rather than the film itself) in terms of publicity.

    Doesn't matter to me either way, as my controversial opinion still stands:
    I believe NTTD will probably be the last Bond film we get for a very long time, if ever.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    Re your controversial opinion: A agree 100%, but I don't think the community will let Bond films/content end, even if we have to do it ourselves.
    I know that sounds dire but I imagine there's a lot of great talent within the community.
    I agree though that the future of EON Bond films, as they are now, is tenuous.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737
    The end of Bond has been predicted many, many times over. But I have to agree that it has never felt more possible that we are witnessing then end of it all.
  • Posts: 16,153
    Re your controversial opinion: A agree 100%, but I don't think the community will let Bond films/content end, even if we have to do it ourselves.
    I know that sounds dire but I imagine there's a lot of great talent within the community.
    I agree though that the future of EON Bond films, as they are now, is tenuous.

    I think with Cubby Bond was his life and primary passion, thus the reason there was a new film every other year. Barbara and Michael, on the other hand have other interests and enjoy producing the Bond films every once in awhile, just to keep the legacy and memory alive.

    After NTTD, I could completely understand if they want to take a massive break, not be bothered with recasting and re-thinking the franchise's approach.
    Perhaps bring Bond back in say, 20 years for a one off film?

    I hope I'm mistaken and NTTD gives Eon it's second wind and inspiration to fast track B26.
  • Posts: 631
    In 20 years time the James Bond character will be out of copyright. He will no longer be Eon’s unique intellectual property asset. If they want to sweat as much money out of their asset as they can, before everyone else gets their hands on it, then they have to pump out films/TV within the next 16 years or so, after that it’s too late
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,779
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I hope I'm mistaken and NTTD gives Eon it's second wind and inspiration to fast track B26.
    That's one natural reaction to this situation, get the next one ready for a fast turn. And among other uncertainties, bringing Craig back one more time could play into that.

    Many possibilities.

  • Posts: 631
    So to be clear, I do not think we will see the end of Bond. Because

    (1) Eon are a business and they need to generate turnover. They need to create income now in order that they can survive and therefore create income in the future. Bond is their biggest asset and unique ISP. No one else can legally use the character. So Eon will continue to create Bond product. Sorry for sounding so capitalist there but at the end of the day Eon exist in a market, and Bond is the biggest and flashiest product that they can put on their stall.

    (2) After 2036 (I think) the JB character is out of copyright. Copyright law is very clear. So we will continue to see JB films or TV after then too, just not made by Eon.

    So the future looks ok to me
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