Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,553
    Agreed @RichardTheBruce and @FatherValentine
    @MakeshiftPython she wasn't armed with a gun, per se, but she was armed I'd say with a radio to a trigger man with an atomic bomb.
  • Posts: 1,394
    Bond isnt a robot.Yes,Paris meant a lot to him and he does show regret,but hes trained and experienced professional and switches back into 007 mode to get the job done.

    Connerys Bond gets ( At least he thinks at first ) revenge of Blofeld in the PTS of DAF,and once thats done hes back to work on his next mission like a pro.

  • Posts: 15,125
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Bond isnt a robot.Yes,Paris meant a lot to him and he does show regret,but hes trained and experienced professional and switches back into 007 mode to get the job done.

    Connerys Bond gets ( At least he thinks at first ) revenge of Blofeld in the PTS of DAF,and once thats done hes back to work on his next mission like a pro.

    First I find their past utterly unconvincing. Paris is good looking, but that's all that is displayed of her so to speak. There's nothing we're shown of the character that would justify Bond finding her more significant than other Bond girls. And the subsequent action sequence doesn't help. Yes he's professional, but he didn't have to grin like that playing with a remote control car. He just looks immature and it makes Paris even less meaningful.

    That said, the scene with Kauffman? Great. Controversial opinion: the best scene of the movie and the only one when there's a sense of danger.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited June 2020 Posts: 6,304
    I'm starting to think that "lost love" is a storyline best left for deep into the franchise. After five films, losing Tracy in OHMSS feels about right.

    But CR, despite it having a deep impact on Bond, took Craig's Bond from escapism (seen earlier in the film) to a so-serious, even haunted direction...and firmly kept him there.

    True, Fleming's Bond did visit Vesper's grave every year, and he did think about how crowded heaven would get, but she wasn't the main emotional thread in *every* novel the way she has been throughout the Craig era (with the exception of SF).

    Personally I love Craig and his interpretation, but I think this is what people are getting at when they argue the "fun" is gone from Craig's Bond.
  • Posts: 1,917
    echo wrote: »
    I'm starting to think that "lost love" is a storyline best left for deep into the franchise. After five films, losing Tracy in OHMSS feels about right.

    But CR, despite it having a deep impact on Bond, took Craig's Bond from escapism (seen earlier in the film) to a so-serious, even haunted direction...and firmly kept him there.

    True, Fleming's Bond did visit Vesper's grave every year, and he did think about how crowded heaven would get, but she wasn't the main emotional thread in *every* novel the way she has been throughout the Craig era (with the exception of SF).

    Personally I love Craig and his interpretation, but I think this is what people are getting at when they argue the "fun" is gone from Craig's Bond.

    Yeah, no easy answer here. There needs to be a good balance. I don't think Bond needs a disposable set of women each film but he also doesn't have to have a deep personal relationship each one either. That's a strength of SF in that it doesn't depend on Bond having a woman at his side the whole film, which QoS also does to its credit.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,638
    Harry Saltzman led Bond films are better than Cubby alone Bond films because they take more risks. Best examples are OHMSS and LALD.
  • Posts: 16,169
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Harry Saltzman led Bond films are better than Cubby alone Bond films because they take more risks. Best examples are OHMSS and LALD.

    I'd add DR NO as well.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,638
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Harry Saltzman led Bond films are better than Cubby alone Bond films because they take more risks. Best examples are OHMSS and LALD.

    I'd add DR NO as well.

    +1 big time.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Not a fan of LALD.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Not a fan of LALD.

    Me neither. Bottom three.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,041
    Not a fan of LALD.

    Me neither. Bottom three.

    I am. One of the better Moore films (like 3 out of 7, or so).
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Unless you grew up with it as a kid, I can’t really see why LALD would be regarded as one of Moore’s better films. Here’s how I’d rank them:

    OP
    MR
    FYEO
    TSWLM
    LALD
    AVTAK
    TMWTGG


    OP being the best of the Moore/Glen films and MR being the best of the 70s Moore films.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Unless you grew up with it as a kid, I can’t really see why LALD would be regarded as one of Moore’s better films. Here’s how I’d rank them:

    OP
    MR
    FYEO
    TSWLM
    LALD
    AVTAK
    TMWTGG


    OP being the best of the Moore/Glen films and MR being the best of the 70s Moore films.

    In the tournament thread:

    1 TSWLM
    2 OP
    3 LALD
    4 FYEO
    5 MR
    6 TMWTGG
    7 AVTAK

    Personally, I have TMWTGG as his best, which is also controversial. I have TSWLM in my bottom five. Also supercontroversial.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited June 2020 Posts: 7,553
    Sometimes the secondary characters can really make a Bond film for me, and push it up in my rankings: this is the case for LALD, FYEO, and GE, and to a lesser extent, TLD.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    Tee Hee is very underrated in the Bond canon. Even Moore said he was his favorite actor in the film.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,553
    echo wrote: »
    Tee Hee is very underrated in the Bond canon. Even Moore said he was his favorite actor in the film.

    Tee Hee is great, but I much prefer Holder as Samedi.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    I like Tee Hee in his few moments he's given.

    I don't understand the point of Baron Samedi.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,553
    I like Tee Hee in his few moments he's given.

    I don't understand the point of Baron Samedi.

    In the novel wasn’t he used as the manifestation of the voodoo culture Big used to control people? It’s been awhile since I’ve read it. It’s possible his purpose got a little diluted in the transition to film but I still love Holders portrayal.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Yeah, in the novel Mr. Big basically went out of his way of making an impression among the superstitious that HE was the great Baron Samedi himself which is why so many feared him. The film version basically makes Samedi an actual supernatural character/henchman.

    Not really fond of Holder, but then again I don’t really know him from anything else.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    OP being the best of the Moore/Glen films and MR being the best of the 70s Moore films.

    Agreed. I'd rank them in this order:

    001) MR
    002) OP
    003) TMWTGG
    004) TSWLM
    005) FYEO
    006) LALD
    007) AVTAK

    I think my love for John Barry's music has a lot to do with how I rank them although I've ranked AVTAK as the nadir of the Moore Bond films ever since my first viewing of the 1985 film its magnificent Barry score notwithstanding.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    Not a fan of LALD.

    Me neither. Bottom three.

    +1

    Never really understood the love for LALD.

    This may not be controversial, but Craig hasn't had a truly great Bond film since Casino Royale and I get the sense that No Time To Die will not make a difference to that statement.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    Octopussy wrote: »
    This may not be controversial, but Craig hasn't had a truly great Bond film since Casino Royale and I get the sense that No Time To Die will not make a difference to that statement.

    +1

    I think that CR is better than the remaining films in the 1995-present/Brosnan & Craig era combined.

  • Posts: 7,436
    echo wrote: »
    Tee Hee is very underrated in the Bond canon. Even Moore said he was his favorite actor in the film.

    Totally agree. Love the character. In fact was going to use TeeHee as my username here before settling on Mathis, but I thought someone got it first.
    Regarding LALD, have really fond memories of my first viewing, and it has one of the strongest set of characters in a Bond movie, and very memorable set pieces. Classic theme too!
    OP though remains my favourite Moore Bond film, and his finest imo.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited June 2020 Posts: 5,131
    Octopussy wrote: »
    Not a fan of LALD.

    Me neither. Bottom three.

    +1

    Never really understood the love for LALD.

    This may not be controversial, but Craig hasn't had a truly great Bond film since Casino Royale and I get the sense that No Time To Die will not make a difference to that statement.

    I think LALD is Moore’s best film, his best performance, the best villains in his era and the best Bond film of the 70’s. The score is also amazing.

    Agreed on the Craig era. I like him. But film quality wise, only CR can compete with the 60’s era.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Funny, I think SF is the only film of his that can compete with the 60s films. The only films that I rank above it are FRWL and GF.
  • Posts: 16,169
    Controversial opinion:
    With the exception of CR, SF (and possibly GE), the Barbara/Michael era has nowhere near the magic of the Cubby/Harry era.
    With Maibaum, Barry, Ken Adam, Cubby and Harry all long gone now, so is a bit of the old spark. Still, Barbara and Michael do an amazing job keeping Bond afloat.
  • Posts: 1,917
    LALD is a middling film for me, but an aspect I really like is Kananga's network of villains. Even a seemingly useless guy like Whisper has his moments. Samedi is used just enough not to overstay his welcome and Adam is kind of underrated. Cabbie guy is fun comic relief. TeeHee is fine, but kind of fills the guy with the unusual physical characteristic quota.
  • edited June 2020 Posts: 2,918
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Controversial opinion:
    With the exception of CR, SF (and possibly GE), the Barbara/Michael era has nowhere near the magic of the Cubby/Harry era.

    My opinion is that there are really two Bond film series. The first lasted from Dr. No to Licence to Kill. The second began with Goldeneye and is marked by the absence of the key creators of the first series (Maibaum, Barry, Binder, Adam, Broccoli and Saltzman). The first series will always have a bit of extra magic because it came first and set the standard.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Controversial opinion:
    With the exception of CR, SF (and possibly GE), the Barbara/Michael era has nowhere near the magic of the Cubby/Harry era.
    With Maibaum, Barry, Ken Adam, Cubby and Harry all long gone now, so is a bit of the old spark. Still, Barbara and Michael do an amazing job keeping Bond afloat.
    Revelator wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Controversial opinion:
    With the exception of CR, SF (and possibly GE), the Barbara/Michael era has nowhere near the magic of the Cubby/Harry era.

    My opinion is that there are really two Bond film series. The first lasted from Dr. No to Licence to Kill. The second began with Goldeneye and is marked by the absence of the key creators of the first series (Maibaum, Barry, Binder, Adam, Broccoli and Saltzman). The first series will always have a bit extra magic because it came first and set the standard.

    The way I felt during the mid-2000s that aside from GE, the Michael/Barbara era was practically a wasteland. TND/TWINE/DAD pretty much rank right at he very bottom for me. The best I could hope for during those years was MAYBE a decent video game. Craig era so far has had a batting average of 50/50, but even the lesser half keeps me engaged.
  • edited June 2020 Posts: 7,507
    I think it can be safely said that Barbara and Michael struck gold with the choice of Craig as Bond. It was a decision that required a lot of courage and which they deserve a lot of credit for. Not all the films of the Craig era have been classics, however it has undeniably made Bond relevant and popular in modern times. Furthermore A list actors, actresses and directors are now interested to work with Bond, which was really not the case during the Salzman/Cubby era. Choosing the next Bond will be another vital decision for Barbara and Michael which will define the next era of Bond. However I won't say they are doing too badly.
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