Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,250
    echo wrote: »
    FWIW, I think the lyrics of YOLT and DAF make a lot more sense than those of GF and MR.

    YOLT benefits by being sung in the second person.

    YOLT has beautiful lyrics and is the main reason it's one of my favourite Bond themes.

    The lyrics to GF bother me because it seems to me like sometimes she's singing about Bond, sometimes about Goldfinger.

    hear hear!
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Denise Richards gave a perfectly good performance in TWINE.Shes a much better actor than people give her credit for.The character of Christmas Jones is ridiculous ( Everyone even her knew that ) and she played the role well,especially the comedic scenes.

    While she’s not good, I don’t think she’s anywhere close to the worst actresses and for me is the least of TWINE’s problems.

    I think the main problem is that she's actually too hot for the character she's supposed to play. Take Holly Goodhead. She's as bland and boring as a scientist is perceived to be by the crisp-eating-beer-drinking general public. A real life Christmas Jones would happen to have all her male classmates fail every class she was in.

    I think her acting is actually quite good. Not only in this film, but also in i.e. starship troopers. People just have too much trouble looking past her increadable hotness. Same goes for Liz Hurley.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Denise Richards gave a perfectly good performance in TWINE.Shes a much better actor than people give her credit for.The character of Christmas Jones is ridiculous ( Everyone even her knew that ) and she played the role well,especially the comedic scenes.

    I always liked Richards. She's not the best actress in the world but I think she would be the first to tell you that.

    An Academy-Award winning actress wouldn't have made that character any better. Richards did alright. And she's very pleasing on the eye, obviously.
  • Posts: 631
    Denise Richards was perfectly cast in Starship Troopers. One of the satirical points of Starship Troopers is the unfeasible youth and hotness of everyone involved.

    It is one of the few films that has gone way, way up in my estimation over the years, I used to be a bit meh about Starship Troopers, but I now think it’s an intelligent, thoughtful, well-made and well-casted satire about how the modern state interacts and manipulates its own population.

    Unlike TWINE :))
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited July 2020 Posts: 7,546
    Denise Richards was perfectly cast in Starship Troopers. One of the satirical points of Starship Troopers is the unfeasible youth and hotness of everyone involved.

    It is one of the few films that has gone way, way up in my estimation over the years, I used to be a bit meh about Starship Troopers, but I now think it’s an intelligent, thoughtful, well-made and well-casted satire about how the modern state interacts and manipulates its own population.

    Unlike TWINE :))

    I read somewhere recently that Starship Troopers is going through some kind of renaissance. I've never seen it though. I'll see if I can find where I read that.

    EDIT: Saw this as well, maybe it'd would be of some interest to you.
    https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/how-starship-troopers-aligns-with-our-moment-of-american-defeat
  • Posts: 631
    Goldfinger is a bit too shouty, too brassy for my personal taste.

    It’s also a bit too ‘film soundtrack’y. If the film GF didn’t exist, then no one would write the song.

    Whereas Diamonds are Forever is the sort of song that still works without its film. It’s a song about diamonds.

    Also, I personally think the song’s intro is perfect. The melody of the intro is the aural version of light sparkling off diamonds. Wonderful
  • edited July 2020 Posts: 631
    Thank you so much for that New Yorker link @NickTwentyTwo.

    I saw ST when it came out, on the big screen, and (apart from the scene where they land on the planet, which was surprisingly epic and moving) I was really disappointed. It felt so shallow and childish. And the characters were impossibly good-looking! And so immature! And there were too many jokes!

    It was a long time before the film worked its way through my preconception filters and I understood how well made it was.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    Goldfinger is a bit too shouty, too brassy for my personal taste.

    It’s also a bit too ‘film soundtrack’y. If the film GF didn’t exist, then no one would write the song.

    Whereas Diamonds are Forever is the sort of song that still works without its film. It’s a song about diamonds.

    Also, I personally think the song’s intro is perfect. The melody of the intro is the aural version of light sparkling off diamonds. Wonderful

    The version of GF from the Wolf of Wall Street made it onto my Bond playlist recently; I'd give it a try if I were you.
  • Posts: 15,114
    Goldfinger is a bit too shouty, too brassy for my personal taste.

    It’s also a bit too ‘film soundtrack’y. If the film GF didn’t exist, then no one would write the song.

    Whereas Diamonds are Forever is the sort of song that still works without its film. It’s a song about diamonds.

    Also, I personally think the song’s intro is perfect. The melody of the intro is the aural version of light sparkling off diamonds. Wonderful

    I always enjoyed Goldfinger, but song for song maybe Diamonds Are Forever is the best one. It certainly is far superior to its movie. In fact it's the only thing I enjoy of DAF now.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,113
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Goldfinger is a bit too shouty, too brassy for my personal taste.

    It’s also a bit too ‘film soundtrack’y. If the film GF didn’t exist, then no one would write the song.

    Whereas Diamonds are Forever is the sort of song that still works without its film. It’s a song about diamonds.

    Also, I personally think the song’s intro is perfect. The melody of the intro is the aural version of light sparkling off diamonds. Wonderful

    I always enjoyed Goldfinger, but song for song maybe Diamonds Are Forever is the best one. It certainly is far superior to its movie. In fact it's the only thing I enjoy of DAF now.

    The main title sequence is the highlight of that film. Amazing song, poor film.
  • Posts: 7,507
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Goldfinger is a bit too shouty, too brassy for my personal taste.

    It’s also a bit too ‘film soundtrack’y. If the film GF didn’t exist, then no one would write the song.

    Whereas Diamonds are Forever is the sort of song that still works without its film. It’s a song about diamonds.

    Also, I personally think the song’s intro is perfect. The melody of the intro is the aural version of light sparkling off diamonds. Wonderful

    I always enjoyed Goldfinger, but song for song maybe Diamonds Are Forever is the best one. It certainly is far superior to its movie. In fact it's the only thing I enjoy of DAF now.

    The main title sequence is the highlight of that film. Amazing song, poor film.

    Couldn't agree more
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,288
    Goldfinger is a bit too shouty, too brassy for my personal taste.

    It’s also a bit too ‘film soundtrack’y. If the film GF didn’t exist, then no one would write the song.

    Whereas Diamonds are Forever is the sort of song that still works without its film. It’s a song about diamonds.

    Well, actually, it's a song about
  • Posts: 2,162
    The very last scene of Diamonds are Forever really annoys me as it ruins Wint and Kidd.

    Up until that point they are very effective, driven, and competent hitmen. The fact they are in a relationship together does not impact on the ability to do their jobs, its just there as a part of their characters. None of the other characters comment on their relationship in anyway, its just accepted and is there. So when Bond pulls his tails between Wint's legs, and we get the "oooooh", it really really annoys me. To go for a pretty cheap homosexual joke at the very end completely undoes it all. Should've been left on the cutting room floor.
  • Posts: 9,846
    For your eyes Only is my Favorite Moore Film
    Dalton should of done 4
    Janus should of been developed over a series of films
    Spectre should not of been introduced in the Craig era (quantum should of been the main organization)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Spectre should not of been introduced in the Craig era (quantum should of been the main organization)

    They're pretty much the same though (evil globalist organization looking to extort money from countries), so I was never bothered by this the revelation of Quantum being a subsidiary of Spectre. If anything, QOS should have just left them unnamed, especially since their name is only mentioned twice in both times in such an understated way. It's also just dumb ****ing name that confuses the title of the film IMO (Terrorist Organization of Comfort???).
  • Posts: 9,846
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Spectre should not of been introduced in the Craig era (quantum should of been the main organization)

    They're pretty much the same though (evil globalist organization looking to extort money from countries), so I was never bothered by this the revelation of Quantum being a subsidiary of Spectre. If anything, QOS should have just left them unnamed, especially since their name is only mentioned twice in both times in such an understated way. It's also just dumb ****ing name that confuses the title of the film IMO (Terrorist Organization of Comfort???).

    what abnnyos me is people complained about Quantum's plan for being to small but Spectre's seemed similarly small...


    as for me Eon has been poor with their evil organization uses since really 1989
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Spectre should not of been introduced in the Craig era (quantum should of been the main organization)

    They're pretty much the same though (evil globalist organization looking to extort money from countries), so I was never bothered by this the revelation of Quantum being a subsidiary of Spectre. If anything, QOS should have just left them unnamed, especially since their name is only mentioned twice in both times in such an understated way. It's also just dumb ****ing name that confuses the title of the film IMO (Terrorist Organization of Comfort???).

    what abnnyos me is people complained about Quantum's plan for being to small but Spectre's seemed similarly small...


    as for me Eon has been poor with their evil organization uses since really 1989

    I dunno if I would call instance access to all intelligence organizations of nine different countries as "small".
  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    edited July 2020 Posts: 2,610
    Risico007 wrote: »
    For your eyes Only is my Favorite Moore Film
    Mine too
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Dalton should of done 4
    Sure; AFAIC he should have done all 24 of them, if possible.
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Janus should of been developed over a series of films
    Don't know. I wouldn't have minded at all seeing Sean Bean in several films, but I don't like it when there's no finale with the main villain involved.
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Spectre should not of been introduced in the Craig era (quantum should of been the main organization)
    That wasn't the problem, but the very bad way in which it was introduced, Nine Eyes and all, IMO.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,250
    Denise Richards was perfectly cast in Starship Troopers. One of the satirical points of Starship Troopers is the unfeasible youth and hotness of everyone involved.

    It is one of the few films that has gone way, way up in my estimation over the years, I used to be a bit meh about Starship Troopers, but I now think it’s an intelligent, thoughtful, well-made and well-casted satire about how the modern state interacts and manipulates its own population.

    Unlike TWINE :))

    I read somewhere recently that Starship Troopers is going through some kind of renaissance. I've never seen it though. I'll see if I can find where I read that.

    EDIT: Saw this as well, maybe it'd would be of some interest to you.
    https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/how-starship-troopers-aligns-with-our-moment-of-american-defeat

    Thanks for that! Very nice read, and indeed, shows Verhoeven's genius.
  • Posts: 1,394
    Mallory wrote: »
    The very last scene of Diamonds are Forever really annoys me as it ruins Wint and Kidd.

    Up until that point they are very effective, driven, and competent hitmen. The fact they are in a relationship together does not impact on the ability to do their jobs, its just there as a part of their characters. None of the other characters comment on their relationship in anyway, its just accepted and is there. So when Bond pulls his tails between Wint's legs, and we get the "oooooh", it really really annoys me. To go for a pretty cheap homosexual joke at the very end completely undoes it all. Should've been left on the cutting room floor.

    They are hardly effective and competent though are they? Yeah they killed a few people but before the end of the film they have already tried and failed to kill Bond twice! And they make the classic Bond villain mistake of leaving him unconscious to die without sticking around to make sure the job was done properly!

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited July 2020 Posts: 6,288
    Makes me appreciate how Blofeld in YOLT shoots Osato and then tries to shoot Bond. Pleasance tries to just get it done.

    Of course, in OHMSS Bond himself makes the same mistake (as Wint and Kidd in DAF), leaving Blofeld hanging from the branch.
  • Posts: 16,154
    Controversial opinion:

    I believe the 1976 ABC Sunday Night Movie re-edit of OHMSS is vastly superior to the original film.

    It's longer, has a cool film noir style voice over narration, and reminds me of PULP FICTION in that sections of the story are played out of sequence.

    I think Fukunaga should seriously consider using this version as a template and go back to the editing room with NTTD. Let's mix things up a bit shall we?


    Just kidding.

    Just wanted to stir up the pot a bit.

    Carry on.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    It would be cool if EON could include that ABC cut as a bonus feature. WB had just recently released the ABC three hour version of SUPERMAN ‘78 on blu-ray. Hopefully someday they’ll put out an extended cut of SUPERMAN II.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,785
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Controversial opinion:

    I believe the 1976 ABC Sunday Night Movie re-edit of OHMSS is vastly superior to the original film.

    [That was awesome, @ToTheRight.]
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,113
    It would be cool if EON could include that ABC cut as a bonus feature. WB had just recently released the ABC three hour version of SUPERMAN ‘78 on blu-ray. Hopefully someday they’ll put out an extended cut of SUPERMAN II.

    What's the difference? I haven't seen it and I'd like to know...
  • Posts: 16,154
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Controversial opinion:

    I believe the 1976 ABC Sunday Night Movie re-edit of OHMSS is vastly superior to the original film.

    [That was awesome, @ToTheRight.]

    Thanks, @RichardTheBruce.



    It would be cool if EON could include that ABC cut as a bonus feature. WB had just recently released the ABC three hour version of SUPERMAN ‘78 on blu-ray. Hopefully someday they’ll put out an extended cut of SUPERMAN II.

    That would be quite interesting. I was just watching the new Blu-ray of Hammer's KISS OF THE VAMPIRE . The television re-edit KISS OF EVIL is included and reminded me of the ABC version of OHMSS
    . So I posted my little joke comment.

    I actually really liked the ABC re-edit of SUPERMAN II and prefer the ABC version of SUPERMAN III to it's original film. The space title sequence makes a big difference to me.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    I don't think the differences are major enough to warrant its own release, which is why I suggest it be better offer it as a bonus feature strictly for fans that are curious of it. It was the very first televised airing of OHMSS in the US, so in 1976 it was for a lot of people who missed it in theaters their first exposure to OHMSS.

    Of course, the same can be said for a lot of TV airings that served as a gateway for Bond fans. I know that a lot of the Bond films I watched for the very first time were on TV marathons during Christmas, usually promoted as 007 Days of Bond.
  • Posts: 16,154
    I don't think the differences are major enough to warrant its own release, which is why I suggest it be better offer it as a bonus feature strictly for fans that are curious of it. It was the very first televised airing of OHMSS in the US, so in 1976 it was for a lot of people who missed it in theaters their first exposure to OHMSS.

    Of course, the same can be said for a lot of TV airings that served as a gateway for Bond fans. I know that a lot of the Bond films I watched for the very first time were on TV marathons during Christmas, usually promoted as 007 Days of Bond.

    I agree. Much rather see it as a bonus feature. In addition I wouldn't mind seeing some of the various title sequence re-edits included as an extra feature. I recall the title card for FYEO being oddly placed at the top pf the screen rather than the bottom on ABC. Also TMWTGG had several changes to Binder's titles on ABC.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    BT3366 wrote: »
    I much prefer the Bond-Sanchez relationship opposed to the Bond-Trevelyan relationship. Sanchez is more complex and interesting and feels more dangerous despite Trevelyan's service training.

    Agreed. One weakness in GE for me was that the 007 vs. 006 antagonistic relationship lacked the dramatic antagonistic tension that the Bond vs. Sanchez one did. Another reason I wish Dalton had played Bond in GE instead of Brosnan.
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    It would be cool if EON could include that ABC cut as a bonus feature. WB had just recently released the ABC three hour version of SUPERMAN ‘78 on blu-ray. Hopefully someday they’ll put out an extended cut of SUPERMAN II.

    What's the difference? I haven't seen it and I'd like to know...

    @GoldenGun Here's some of it:




  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    It's funny to think that OHMSS cut was a ratings hit for its day, but it's something EON went onto have locked in a vault and throwing away the key.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,785
    That ABC airing was also my first witness to OHMSS. It lived alongside John Brosnan's description in James Bond in the Cinema for many years.

    Bond history, seeing the failure myth across the years. Even so there are fan edits out there recreating that presentation. Interesting how things play out in the long view.

    14f982f40544dc0025a0861b4859119b544648fc.png
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