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However, it's not a popular opinion to like TWINE it seems. But for me I'd say both SF and TWINE have problems. Problems that wildly differ in nature, though not in numbers.
TWINE is ambitious but holds on to a formula at times when it should let go. (No doubt LTK's American box office letdown was still fresh in Bab's mind and the reappraisal of said film and OHMSS wasn't yet en vogue.) I don't mind the tone though, there are serious moments but the film keeps its sense of entertainment. The plot holds up rather well too.
SF on the other hand is gorgeous to look at, has great dialogue and is filled with phenomenal shot compositions. It is however so ambitious that it takes itself overly serious and forgets its own McGuffin halfway through. I find it easier to suspend my disbelief when a film doesn't try to convince me that we're watching The Godfather of spy movies at any given opportunity.
I would say SF's strong points are TWINE's weaker points, but it also goes the other way around. In the end though, I must admit I like both of them, despite these above remarks. The difference is that TWINE gets a pretty bad rap and SF is considered a masterpiece. I'd say the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
Well, I am certainly denying that claim! Care to explain why I am so obviously wrong and you are right??
The only major or significant similarites between the films I can see is that the main villain has a past history with M and a grudge against her as well as the fact that there is an attack on MI6. However for me, the similarities stop there. To call Skyfall a "remake" is quite simply ridiculous, and TWINE does not deserve to revel in its glory simply because there are parallels in the villain's back story.
It is a bit like calling Spectre a remake of Empire Strikes Back because there is a family relation between the protagonist and the villain...
I’m not sure what is and isn’t a masterpiece but SF, to me, is a phenomenal film. I was blown away by it at the time and I still love it dearly. It vies with CS for second place in my affections, just behind OHMSS. TWINE is a movie that definitely doesn’t have the courage of its convictions. So many interesting elements set up and then ham-fistedley fumbled. You’re absolutely right that it reverting back to formula is what lets it down. Most egregiously in the case of Christmas Jones. She isn’t required as a character to be in the film at all. Seems the producers lost the nerve to have the main Bond girl be the villain, so they have another one turn up to take her place more or less just when Electra’s villainy becomes apparent.
Still, it’s a movie I enjoyed quite a bit more than I was expecting on a recent watch through. At least a damn site more than the miserable TND.
Exactly. Next they will be saying QOS is a remake of TSWLM, because it features someone holding on to a tie, and a scene in a desert.
Bond films always cannibalise each other, for want of a better way of saying it.
All right, I shouldn't put it that way. Still though, I feel SF and TWINE are like two houses constructed on the same fundaments. But where TWINE shied away from certain risks, SF took those risks and got rewarded for it. While doing so however it also slitghtly lost a sense of self-awareness.
In any case, I never said SF was a remake of TWINE. In fact, I clearly stated that I don't think it is.
For me TWINE just isn't quite the pile of garbage many make it out to be. SF, on the other hand, I don't consider to be the magnus opus of the franchise either. I do think both of them are enjoyable, if a bit flawed in certain areas.
I'm with you on Skyfall, it's good, but not great.
I find TWINE pretty hard to defend, though. I won't go into the other points that have already been made on the thread as nauseaum. I can some up my problems with it one sentence. It's boring. That, to me, is the one indefensible thing for a Bond film.
SF is not a masterpiece, but then, to me there are few if any Bond films I’d call a masterpiece. OHMSS, perhaps. Connery’s first four, maybe. Casino Royale? Absolutely. SF is a tremendously great film, though. @GoldenGun, you’ll find you’re not the only one here who finds SF lackluster, if not flat out crap (not me though, I love it). Hell, virtually every Bond film has it’s fans and detractors.
Okay, that is a description I can agree with although we will have to disagree regarding the quality of the respective films. SF is a top five category for me while TWINE is lurking somewhere in the bottom three with DAF and DAD.
Have to agree on Skyfall. It’s good, but not the greatest Bond outing. I found TWINE a very mediocre outing that wasted Robert Carlyle and reduced him to a glorified sidekick. If you so much as criticise it on YouTube, the Brosnan fanboys who can’t get out of the 90’s defend it like rabid dogs.
Bring 'em on over here and we'll see how the craignotbond crowd is received in 2020. I'd dare say TWINE is the forgotten Bond film of the '90s, of the Brosnan era and of the series as a whole. There's just not much that stands out about it.
There's definitely loud echoes of the 1999 Bond film in the 2012 one. I'd say SF also recycles elements of TMWTGG and GE too.
Only Skyfall has a villain that actually succeeds and not some jumped up sociopath with daddy issues.
Ah, @jobo we have the same bottom three. Those narrowly beat out QOS for my 'terrible trio'
That's part of the problem. GE is excellent, TND is middling, but memorable. DAD is arguably just as bad, if not worse, than TWINE, but at least it's fast paced and looks fairly spectacular and big.
+1. I get why people might not like TWINE, but I always have a great time watching it. That's all I want from a film really.
- Someone from the past resurfaces, changing one's perception of reality
- Bond struggling between being motivated by his duty and motivated by a personal interest
- M's faith in Bond being tested, towards the end realizing Bond is on the right.
- The revelation that MI6 has a traitor among their ranks
- Bond's cool exterior is challenged by something that personally rankles him beneath the surface.
- The Bond leading lady initially has her doubts about Bond before growing onto him
As far as recurring elements go for TWINE and SF, I'd point to just the attack on MI6 because that's much more specific on those two films, whereas all the other elements I've written above are elements that occur throughout most of the films. I think it's fair to say that they have become part of the Bond formula as much as the older formulaic elements like sacrificial lambs and convenient gadgets.
-A terrorist with a physical oddity
-A female associate of the villain who is terrified of him and says in her dialogue Bond can't protect her from him
-Bond suffers an injury which hampers him for part of the film but is eased out as the film progresses
-Bond strapped to a chair by the villain as they gloat
There are likely many others.
While I love AWTD, I'll forever wish Amy had gotten the gig instead.
Yes! I love it too.TND used to be ny favourite brosnan Bond as its arguably more fun,but as i got older i began to apreciate the more complex TWINE.
I never had any issue with any of that stuff. Most of what lets TWINE down is the stagey action and the payoffs towards the end.
She would of fitted the theme song for QOS a lot better.
Ummm... No. Compared to NSNA, his performance in DAF is way better. As for YOLT, it's a little closer.
I'd certainly say his performance is consistent with those films.
I really enjoy Connery's performance in NSNA.