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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    Posts: 3,494
    I'm going to side with Khan re Craig's computer expertise in SF. He does know things about computers he shouldn't, going back to him busting into M's place in Casino Royale and hacking his way into her company laptop. Let's face it- once Silva outwitted Q and exposed him as not quite the genius he was portraying himself to be, why not?

    Solange? Madonn, is that woman ever hot. Best looking in 30 years? Well, going back to 1973, there are other gorgeous Bond girls that rate so while not nearly as preposterous or controversial as choosing Grace Jones or Carmen duSautoy, for which a man should be thoroughly flogged for even suggesting, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. Still, I'd get rug burn with Caterina any time and any place :)
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    SirHenryLeeChaChing wrote:
    I'm going to side with Khan re Craig's computer expertise in SF. He does know things about computers he shouldn't, going back to him busting into M's place in Casino Royale and hacking his way into her company laptop. Let's face it- once Silva outwitted Q and exposed him as not quite the genius he was portraying himself to be, why not?

    There's a slight difference between hacking a laptop, which could be put down to his expertise in espionage and thus an ability to uncover passwords, codes etc, than staring at an already quite unbelievable bit of computer bollocks and plucking a name out of the sky. Don't get me wrong, I can let it slide, but every time I see it and I've probably seen it upwards of 30 times, I always wish it wasn't so incredibly lazy. As I said, it's deus ex machina in all it's glory.

  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    A deus ex machina is an adventitious phenomenon that resolves a conundrum. Bond's amazing analytical ability, which has already been established over the course of the decades, is no such thing. It is an internal, and in its Bondian context, entirely plausible factor which moves the plot along.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    All this talk of Deus Ex Machina makes me want to play Deus Ex Again. :))
    deusex1.jpg
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Perilagu_Khan wrote:
    A deus ex machina is an adventitious phenomenon that resolves a conundrum. Bond's amazing analytical ability, which has already been established over the course of the decades, is no such thing. It is an internal, and in its Bondian context, entirely plausible factor which moves the plot along.

    Nah, sorry. That's utter bollocks.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,172
    I'm not sure if this is a controversial opinion or not, but I never like it when Bond is able to work computers like he works women or guns. He's a man of many talents, but I never saw him as a computer specialist. We have Q for that, or computer programmers like Boris and Natalya. We never saw Bond installing little gadgets in his cars or briefcases; we've always accepted this as a thing for other characters, most notably our beloved quartermaster. Of course James Bond has a minimal knowledge of mechanics, of the workings of a gun, of electronics, but not to the point where he could outsmart all of us for example. Same with computers. I don't mind Bond being the better shot, the better poker player, the better car driver, mountaineer, skier and even pilot, but where or when would he have picked up hacker level of computer skills?

    That said, its a conceit I give CR. Bond does things with a laptop and a cell phone and I'm sure we're not supposed to understand what it is that he does or where he might have learned the skills. Giving it a little more thought, I dislike it, so I try not to care and move on. But I think they could and should have avoided these discrepancies.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,111
    It never bothered me in CR. I didn't understand it as Bond being a first class hacker, but knowing basic ways to log into a personal computer. And it's not like he did it for a remote location, he had first to break into M's house (something a 00 can do with relative ease) and physically access the laptop.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,172
    M mentions at one point "how does he know these things?" If even she is astonished to find Bond such a software expert, I think his manoeuvres exceed basic computer skills. ;-)
  • LudovicoLudovico
    edited September 2013 Posts: 15,111
    DarthDimi wrote:
    M mentions at one point "how does he know these things?" If even she is astonished to find Bond such a software expert, I think his manoeuvres exceed basic computer skills. ;-)

    True, but that didn't bother me much. That said, it is important that Bond is pictured as not as skilled as the villain in some aspects, and even not as smart.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Bond's computer antics in CR were pretty basic. M's line about him knowing these things was in reference to him logging in to the network with her username and password, which any resourceful spy of Bond's pedigree could easily find out. But everything else he did i.e. tracing the text message to the Bahamas and accessing the video footage once there was and is elementary stuff.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    DarthDimi wrote:
    I'm not sure if this is a controversial opinion or not, but I never like it when Bond is able to work computers like he works women or guns. He's a man of many talents, but I never saw him as a computer specialist. We have Q for that, or computer programmers like Boris and Natalya. We never saw Bond installing little gadgets in his cars or briefcases; we've always accepted this as a thing for other characters, most notably our beloved quartermaster. Of course James Bond has a minimal knowledge of mechanics, of the workings of a gun, of electronics, but not to the point where he could outsmart all of us for example. Same with computers. I don't mind Bond being the better shot, the better poker player, the better car driver, mountaineer, skier and even pilot, but where or when would he have picked up hacker level of computer skills?

    That said, its a conceit I give CR. Bond does things with a laptop and a cell phone and I'm sure we're not supposed to understand what it is that he does or where he might have learned the skills. Giving it a little more thought, I dislike it, so I try not to care and move on. But I think they could and should have avoided these discrepancies.

    Indeed, in Fleming's novels he choose not to have any extra bumpf in case he got captured, which happens a lot, i.e. he chose not to have any information, which the enemy could extort from him, on ciphers, for example. Update it to the present day, computers instead of ciphers....
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I love Max the parrot.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Gemma Arteton was horrendously wasted in QoS and should have been cast as a main Bond girl to begin with anyway.
  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    Thunderfinger wrote:
    I love Max the parrot.

    I love the Thatchers Coda. And I'm a fan of Maggie.

  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Perilagu_Khan wrote:
    Thunderfinger wrote:
    I love Max the parrot.

    I love the Thatchers Coda. And I'm a fan of Maggie.

    I'm with you on both points there.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,269
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    Perilagu_Khan wrote:
    Thunderfinger wrote:
    I love Max the parrot.

    I love the Thatchers Coda. And I'm a fan of Maggie.

    I'm with you on both points there.

    Indeed. Lovely stuff.
  • saunderssaunders Living in a world of avarice and deceit
    Posts: 987
    I genuinely found Denise Richards totally believable as a nuclear physicist.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited September 2013 Posts: 18,269
    saunders wrote:
    I genuinely found Denise Richards totally believable as a nuclear physicist.

    Snap. I've never understood all the fuss about that - she wasn't a Mary Goodnight sort by any stretch.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    saunders wrote:
    I genuinely found Denise Richards totally believable as a nuclear physicist.

    I never got why everyone hated her either. I didn't think she was bad in the role and she looked great. There have been much worse Bond girls.
    Dragonpol wrote:
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    Perilagu_Khan wrote:
    Thunderfinger wrote:
    I love Max the parrot.

    I love the Thatchers Coda. And I'm a fan of Maggie.

    I'm with you on both points there.

    Indeed. Lovely stuff.

    I'll never really understand why some people liked that woman.
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    edited September 2013 Posts: 3,494
    Dragonpol wrote:
    saunders wrote:
    I genuinely found Denise Richards totally believable as a nuclear physicist.

    Snap. I've never understood all the fuss about that - she wasn't a Mary Goodnight sort by any stretch.

    Would you go as far to say that Richards was a better actress than Britt Ekland? I wouldn't.

  • saunderssaunders Living in a world of avarice and deceit
    Posts: 987
    Dragonpol wrote:
    saunders wrote:
    I genuinely found Denise Richards totally believable as a nuclear physicist.

    Snap. I've never understood all the fuss about that - she wasn't a Mary Goodnight sort by any stretch.

    It's almost as if the general feeling is that she can't be young and sexy while having an intelligent mind.

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,269
    saunders wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    saunders wrote:
    I genuinely found Denise Richards totally believable as a nuclear physicist.

    Snap. I've never understood all the fuss about that - she wasn't a Mary Goodnight sort by any stretch.

    It's almost as if the general feeling is that she can't be young and sexy while having an intelligent mind.

    Yes, the cloven hoof of err...sexism?
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    saunders wrote:
    It's almost as if the general feeling is that she can't be young and sexy while having an intelligent mind.
    I've never had that feeling. I find Natalya from GE to be young, sexy and intelligent. Denise Richards not so much.
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    edited September 2013 Posts: 3,494
    Richards is all show and no go in the tradition of Bach and Roberts. T&A doesn't mean you're a great actress. I certainly don't mind hotties like these from the view of my personal jollies, but when we start to pretend that they're competent past that...so my controversial opinion is that Max The Parrot was a better actor than those three :)
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    pachazo wrote:
    saunders wrote:
    It's almost as if the general feeling is that she can't be young and sexy while having an intelligent mind.
    I've never had that feeling. I find Natalya from GE to be young, sexy and intelligent. Denise Richards not so much.

    She's supposed to be a doctor of nuclear physics in charge of decommissioning soviet warheads at the age of what? 25?

    Now I know the Russians are supposed to be a bit suspect in this arena but personally I'd feel more comfortable with Dr Arkov than a girl fresh out of university.

    Not saying its not possible but it would need a better actress than Richards to pull it off. Holly and Natalya I can buy because they are more mature but Christmas stretches credibility somewhat.
  • WillyGaloreWillyGalore
    Posts: 6,396
    Agree with the above posts. Just listen to her delivery of this line:

    "...so if you need any protection, it's from me".

    Bloody excruciating. If that's meant to be acting, I should give it a go!
  • saunderssaunders Living in a world of avarice and deceit
    Posts: 987
    pachazo wrote:
    saunders wrote:
    It's almost as if the general feeling is that she can't be young and sexy while having an intelligent mind.
    I've never had that feeling. I find Natalya from GE to be young, sexy and intelligent. Denise Richards not so much.

    I wonder if Natalya's Russian accent lends her young character a sense of gravitas that is maybe missing from Dr Jones all American accent? Regardless I still consider them both capable young ladies equally suitable for their professions, yes at 25 Christmas is rather young (but not impossibly) for her job, but surely it's ok by Bond standards of realism. Does Denise Richards honestly really deserve the level of bile and condemnation she receives for this role?

  • WillyGaloreWillyGalore
    Posts: 6,396
    saunders wrote:
    pachazo wrote:
    saunders wrote:
    It's almost as if the general feeling is that she can't be young and sexy while having an intelligent mind.
    I've never had that feeling. I find Natalya from GE to be young, sexy and intelligent. Denise Richards not so much.

    I wonder if Natalya's Russian accent lends her young character a sense of gravitas that is maybe missing from Dr Jones all American accent? Regardless I still consider them both capable young ladies equally suitable for their professions, yes at 25 Christmas is rather young (but not impossibly) for her job, but surely it's ok by Bond standards of realism. Does Denise Richards honestly really deserve the level of bile and condemnation she receives for this role?

    In a word, yes. Just as Halle Berry and Teri Hatcher deserve it. Terrible performances.
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    edited September 2013 Posts: 3,494
    saunders wrote:
    pachazo wrote:
    saunders wrote:
    It's almost as if the general feeling is that she can't be young and sexy while having an intelligent mind.
    I've never had that feeling. I find Natalya from GE to be young, sexy and intelligent. Denise Richards not so much.

    I wonder if Natalya's Russian accent lends her young character a sense of gravitas that is maybe missing from Dr Jones all American accent? Regardless I still consider them both capable young ladies equally suitable for their professions, yes at 25 Christmas is rather young (but not impossibly) for her job, but surely it's ok by Bond standards of realism. Does Denise Richards honestly really deserve the level of bile and condemnation she receives for this role?

    She married Charlie Sheen, how smart can she be? Yes indeed, a terrible monotone performance. Her scene in the pipeline was particularly excruciating to watch.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    saunders wrote:
    Does Denise Richards honestly really deserve the level of bile and condemnation she receives for this role?
    I blame the producers for it more than her. She was a "hot commodity" at the time due to her appearance in Wild Things in 1998. I get it. We've had a history of women with hot bodies in these movies. Honestly, I could have tolerated her if she was not playing a nuclear physicist. The same goes for Tanya Roberts playing a geologist in AVTAK. It's just not believable.
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