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Here’s another controversial opinion.
I could have done without Dench’s female M. I prefer Lee, Brown and Fiennes. Obviously Lee being the best by a country mile.
Conti is the reason why FYEO ranks so low. His music works well for Rocky but not 007. I do enjoy Hamlich for TSWLM but the best non Barry is easily George Martin for LALD
Robert Brown a ‘TERRIBLE’ M? Surely that’s a bit of a hyperbole, no? To each his own, of course, but I thought Brown was solid in the role. I prefer Brown to Fiennes, who I feel has been somewhat wasted in his films (particularly in Spectre).
I dont think thats very controversial.Iv seen many comment here that Dench was overused in the Bond films she was in ( Particularly the Craig entries ).M should just be there to give Bond a mission and make the odd appearance but the creators contrived to get Dench;s M as much screen time as possible just because shes DAME Judi Dench.I was glad when she was killed off.
Geez,even being dead didnt stop them from inserting her into Spectre!
Agreed. Brown seemed more like a querulous, petty bureaucrat than an old navy man who commanded Bond's respect and devotion.
I think his score had the right amount of pizazz, glitz, and flair for Bond, especially considering the either lackluster or sedate scores from the films bracketing FYEO. Conti made up for this with a larger helping of melody and rhythm.
I prefer Lee and Brown to Dench.
I'd rather just see Bond work alone rather than having M constantly guide Bond through his earpiece as though he needs training wheels.
Still Judi Dench did a superb job regardless. I just prefer her M in the Brosnan era over Craig.
Not in this thread, no.
Interesting. Granted the last couple of Moore films are my least watched films in the series (along with DAF) so perhaps my memory is tricking me, but I found Brown and Dalton a big mismatch in both films - it being more obvious in LTK due to Bond going rogue.
I think @Revelator's description of him as a petty bureaucrat is pretty accurate.
Put it this way, I could very easily see Bernard Lee taking Sean Connery or Roger Moore to the Blades social club, but I definitely couldn't see Brown doing that for either Moore or Dalton.
I agree, but I feel we’ve never got a bad M. The reason Judi got so much screen time was she got really big in stardom during her time. It’s just that the “Bond leaves MI6 in part because of her” REALLY got old. I didn’t pity her when she died in SF. She knew her job had risks. I enjoyed Mallory more in SF, as he was in and out the right amount of time.
Agreed.
Made worse by Rory Kinnear’s spineless and bland portrayal of Bill Tanner tagging along everywhere. He’s nothing like the Bill Tanner of the books and his portrayal is utterly forgettable.
CR and SF end perfectly, and could have taken us into an exciting new era with Craig's Bond let loose to do his thing. Except in each film he is over laded by baggage from the previous film (SF is the closest thing to just letting him get on with it, and even then he has to contend with coming back from the dead and dealing with his relationship to M).
It's the main reason I am not really looking forward to NTTD (just as well, it turns out!).
I don't think I will ever be able to look at this era as anything other than a lost opportunity. Despite the popularity of Craig and the commercial success, I still feel like each film has been compromised, heavily laden with baggage, and feels somehow dragged down, as if Bond himself is operating with one hand tied behind his back.
I like Rory Kinnear as Tanner.
Agreed. Albeit, I like the QoS continuity, but not the Step Brother...link all the films ‘bolted on’ rubbish from SP.
What do you like about him?
Yes I quite like how QoS starts. But there was never any real need to drag him down with all the emotional baggage. "The bitch is dead" should have been the last word on Vesper imo.
But literally all four films have used their final images to draw a line under what has gone before...only to take two steps backwards with the next film.
True. The annoying gunbarrel in the wrong place should have ended with CR or at worst QoS as well.
I completely agree with you on the problem posed by this tendency to reopen the closed emotional issue, and above all to reiterate a development already concluded, by starting again from zero. As much as I think it is normal that there are wounds, inherited from the previous mission, particularly in the case of QoS, the execution in itself is incomprehensible. Regarding Forster's movie, it's natural that Bond is still marked by the death of Vesper, what is less is that he acts like the character he was at the beginning of CR, and not the man he became at the end of this adventure.
I might be wrong, but the use of Fleming's title would have suggested that Bond had become a cold and dehumanized agent, the opposite of the violent man that he is, purely driven by his emotions. There, his story arc is the same than in the previous movie, learning to be less reckless and more professional. It would have been much more interesting to have the classic portrayal of Bond, glimpsed at the end of CR, but taken to a climax in his coldness. Not reckless, but dehumanized. The character would therefore have learned to have compassion again, something he lacked to fully become the classic Bond.
I'd certainly put him on par with Dench and I'd take him over Fiennes any day. Stil though, I don't think we ever got a bad M. They've all been good overall.
Yes, I think that's the issue. I don't have problems with how Craig plays the role. I just think it is almost pointless retreading the same character trajectory in each film. With a virtually identical "I'm back and fully restored!' ending in each film that is tacked on and takes place the day after the main events.
To be fair, "the bitch is dead" wasn't Fleming's last word on Vesper.
A lot of people simply don't like Dench as M because she's female and his boss. Pure sexism. She's clearly a better actor than any of the others who portrayed M, including Lee. Fiennes is the only one who comes close to Dench in acting ability.
Can't remember who said it on these boards, but they wrote that Bond's demons should be like a scar - not an open wound. Craig's Bond barely mentions Vesper, or any of his demons to be fair, it's just that all the other characters keep going on about them.
Fleming gets used as a blunt instrument on here to help people win arguments. If Fleming has written something, they bring it up and say 'here, this is what Fleming does, so everything that resembles it is justified'. And if something from the movies goes against Fleming but that they happen to like, they say 'Fleming is outdated', 'the movies are different', or 'we need to move on and reflect the times'. You've only got to go on the 'who could be Bond' board whenever the prospect of a non-white Bond turns up. You see that argument played out again and again.
I don't think many of us would particularly relish some of the racial and ethnic discussions the books engage in from time to time, so clearly Fleming's choices have limits.
Fleming for me is the touchstone for the character traits, and overall mood of the Bond universe. But some of what he wrote should remain in the books.
Fleming is a good guide. Perhaps the only guide. But it is clearly a balancing act. Vesper doesn't dominate Live and Let Die, Moonraker, or Diamonds are Forever. Can't remember if she is mentioned in those books. Probably at some point, but it's not at the forefront.
I don't think you are in any position really to decide people's motives for not liking a character or actor. It could just as easily be turned back on you and claimed that you only like Dench because she's a woman.
I like Dench as an actor and her portrayal as M (I think it is one of the strongest elements of the Craig and Brosnan films), but I have no insight to determine the motifs of those who don't like her turn as M.
I don’t like Martin’s work in LALD to be honest. Of all the non-Barry scores it’s probably the second worst soundtrack of the series only behind Monty Norman’s original score. There’s so many times in the movie where the music just BLARES unnecessarily like when Rosie sneaks in Bond’s cabin.
Also Robert Brown as M sucks.
Vesper is mentioned in the DAF novel indirectly. Bond is unserved by a song that reminds him of her.
I don’t particularly like the female M because it changes Fleming’s character and tradition for no apparent reason other than a ‘stunt’ to be PC and reflect the real MI6.
True. I was agreeing with you and expanding on the point.
I think it great to do a female M. It’s not like it’s the same character with a sex change.