Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Posts: 1,394
    All Bond movies have product placement.Pointing it out is part of the fun of this franchise.T.o criticise one film for having it it to criticise them all.
  • Posts: 2,919
    Some place products better than others. And some of the products have no business being placed by Bond.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737
    Revelator wrote: »
    Some place products better than others. And some of the products have no business being placed by Bond.

    Agreed.
  • Posts: 15,218
    jobo wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    DaltonFan wrote: »
    @Dragonpol: Fun fact: His father was also a Bond fan until Die Another Day because for some nutty reason he got upset that the bad guys were North Korean.

    Yes, I've read that the film didn't go down well in North Korea. I suppose that's an understandable reaction from a Communist dictatorship heavily reliant on censorship though.

    I've also read that the current North Korean leader's father, Kim Jong-il, learned to speak English from watching Star Trek episodes. Oh, and Klingon as well. ;)

    My bet is thar he was also insulted to have the Bond villain be a petulant child.

    Maybe it hit a little too close to home?

    I just wished the film hadn't been that bad.

    Me too. It's my least favourite film in the series. Instead of focusing on one or two specific areas it tries to be all things to all people and fails miserably.

    The first half is good, though, right? It's only when he goes to Iceland that it falls to pieces. Or do you hate it all?

    In my case I hate it all.

    Yeah, the somewhat fashionable "the first half of DAD is actually good" notion does not resonate with me. The PTS action is boring (can we please aim higher than generic machine gun action in mud?), Madonna's theme song is still horrible, Bond's escspe is utterly bizarre (more at home in a Harry Potter movie), the product placement galore scene in the hotel is pastiche, the dialogue and acting performances between Brosnan and Berry are embarrassing beyond words, the slow mo action edits are bad taste, Jinx' CGI jump is obnoxious and silly, Madonna's cameo is a travesty, the sexual innuendos are childish, the invicible car is ridiculous... :-&

    Rant over... but I could go on...

    It just starts bad with the gunbarrel sequence thar suddenly has a slowmo bullet in it. It was already dated back in 2002. I tried very hard to love DAD when I watched it for the first time. But it was like watching a horror movie: the first shot is pure gore, then you know there'll be more horror coming afterwards.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,359
    The Smirnoff (Smirnoff!) in TND as Bond waits for Paris is pretty bad.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    edited February 2021 Posts: 737
    echo wrote: »
    The Smirnoff (Smirnoff!) in TND as Bond waits for Paris is pretty bad.

    You do wonder why a more select brand wouldn't pay more to be involved.

    But again, the issue I have with CR is that the sequence with the Mondeo actually resembles a car advert. It is shot and edited like one.

    I don't have an issue with him drinking Smirnoff or driving a Mondeo, but at least he doesn't take a sip of the vodka and then go 'hhmmm' into camera, which is pretty much the equivalent of what happens when he drives the Mondeo in CR.

    At least the Smirnoff is just there (albeit 'tastefully' pointed towards the lens), rather than dominating the scene.

    Has anyone watched any of season three of Cobra Kai? The product placement is absolutely shameless. You can actually see the actors turning the bottle label toward the camera in shot.

    Anyway, that's a great show regardless.
  • edited February 2021 Posts: 787
    echo wrote: »
    Controversial opinion: TMWTGG is the laziest of all the Bond films, followed by DAF.

    Curious to hear where you slot DAF into the laziness scale - surely it's up there?

    EDIT: nevermind, I misread your post as DAD, not DAF.

    I suppose DAD is many things, but it isn't exactly lazy.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,599
    octofinger wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Controversial opinion: TMWTGG is the laziest of all the Bond films, followed by DAF.

    Curious to hear where you slot DAF into the laziness scale - surely it's up there?

    EDIT: nevermind, I misread your post as DAD, not DAF.

    I suppose DAD is many things, but it isn't exactly lazy.

    It's Brosnans Moonraker or YOLT. I'm not a huge fan of it as much as I was in 2002-03 but it has a special place in my heart as it was the first Bond film that I saw in theaters. There are definitely some WTF were they thinking moments but I'll usually skip the dragster scene and go from the escape from the biodomes to the car chase. It is really two movies in one, similar to how I view Moonraker as Bond following the clues on Drax and then goes bananas after Rio.
  • I'm late to this, but I don't think DAF is lazy. I think DAF is seen as lazy because it doesn't conform to our ideas of what a Bond film is (or was, contextually at that point in time in the series' history).

    It has some of the sharpest dialogue and best comedic acting in the series, imo. And in those respects, hardly lazy.
  • Posts: 1,926
    I'm late to this, but I don't think DAF is lazy. I think DAF is seen as lazy because it doesn't conform to our ideas of what a Bond film is (or was, contextually at that point in time in the series' history).

    It has some of the sharpest dialogue and best comedic acting in the series, imo. And in those respects, hardly lazy.

    I'm a bigger fan of DAF than most, but I can understand the laziness criticism and I think it's more due to the circumstances surrounding DAF's production, mostly I think because it was somewhat rushed due to multiple things.

    Lazenby's leaving meant finding a replacement, finding one (John Gavin) and at the last minute rejecting him for Connery. Then there was getting a proper script, starting with Maibaum's Goldfinger's twin brother to Cubby's dream about Howard Hughes that led to the Willard Whyte character and that plot.

    There was also a concentrated effort to make sure the film finished in time to make sure Eon didn't have to pay Connery beyond his contract, which would've happened had it gone overschedule, adding to the budget. Connery's contract also meant other things in the budget suffered, such as the ropey special effects.

    We've also discussed on one of the threads how Peter Hunt's touch is missing in the editing - with the infamous Mustang on wrong side, bouncing moon buggy wheels, ropey special effects, and so on. Again, all to make sure they didn't have to pay Connery more and had to meet the Christmas season release date. The really polished feel is just not there with DAF.
    echo wrote: »

    Has anyone watched any of season three of Cobra Kai? The product placement is absolutely shameless. You can actually see the actors turning the bottle label toward the camera in shot.

    Anyway, that's a great show regardless.

    I've watched all Cobra Kai seasons this year. Loved them. The one product placement that stands out in my mind is Johnny's preferred beer, Coors. And he drives a Challenger (or did). What other examples are there, just can't recall any specifically.
  • Posts: 1,394
    echo wrote: »
    The Smirnoff (Smirnoff!) in TND as Bond waits for Paris is pretty bad.

    Whats wrong with Smirnoff? And lets lay off the Mondeo bashing people,i owned one of those back in the day and really enjoyed driving it!
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,359
    It's crap vodka, IMHO.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited February 2021 Posts: 7,589
    Well, maybe not in Bond's opinion. I mean he must like it a little, he's drinking it right in the movie! ;)
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    jobo wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    DaltonFan wrote: »
    @Dragonpol: Fun fact: His father was also a Bond fan until Die Another Day because for some nutty reason he got upset that the bad guys were North Korean.

    Yes, I've read that the film didn't go down well in North Korea. I suppose that's an understandable reaction from a Communist dictatorship heavily reliant on censorship though.

    I've also read that the current North Korean leader's father, Kim Jong-il, learned to speak English from watching Star Trek episodes. Oh, and Klingon as well. ;)

    My bet is thar he was also insulted to have the Bond villain be a petulant child.

    Maybe it hit a little too close to home?

    I just wished the film hadn't been that bad.

    Me too. It's my least favourite film in the series. Instead of focusing on one or two specific areas it tries to be all things to all people and fails miserably.

    The first half is good, though, right? It's only when he goes to Iceland that it falls to pieces. Or do you hate it all?

    In my case I hate it all.

    Yeah, the somewhat fashionable "the first half of DAD is actually good" notion does not resonate with me. The PTS action is boring (can we please aim higher than generic machine gun action in mud?), Madonna's theme song is still horrible, Bond's escspe is utterly bizarre (more at home in a Harry Potter movie), the product placement galore scene in the hotel is pastiche, the dialogue and acting performances between Brosnan and Berry are embarrassing beyond words, the slow mo action edits are bad taste, Jinx' CGI jump is obnoxious and silly, Madonna's cameo is a travesty, the sexual innuendos are childish, the invicible car is ridiculous... :-&

    Rant over... but I could go on...

    The pre-title sequence is ok.

    It’s downhill from the end of Cuba IMO.

    However, how does Bond leave a PoW camp after a year and leave chubby?? 🤣😂
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    echo wrote: »
    It's crap vodka, IMHO.

    The Modeo and Smirnoff are pure marketing. Middle of the road affordable brands with no glamour. They shouldn’t really appear in a modern Bond film...but sponsorship money talks.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,339
    suavejmf wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    DaltonFan wrote: »
    @Dragonpol: Fun fact: His father was also a Bond fan until Die Another Day because for some nutty reason he got upset that the bad guys were North Korean.

    Yes, I've read that the film didn't go down well in North Korea. I suppose that's an understandable reaction from a Communist dictatorship heavily reliant on censorship though.

    I've also read that the current North Korean leader's father, Kim Jong-il, learned to speak English from watching Star Trek episodes. Oh, and Klingon as well. ;)

    My bet is thar he was also insulted to have the Bond villain be a petulant child.

    Maybe it hit a little too close to home?

    I just wished the film hadn't been that bad.

    Me too. It's my least favourite film in the series. Instead of focusing on one or two specific areas it tries to be all things to all people and fails miserably.

    The first half is good, though, right? It's only when he goes to Iceland that it falls to pieces. Or do you hate it all?

    In my case I hate it all.

    Yeah, the somewhat fashionable "the first half of DAD is actually good" notion does not resonate with me. The PTS action is boring (can we please aim higher than generic machine gun action in mud?), Madonna's theme song is still horrible, Bond's escspe is utterly bizarre (more at home in a Harry Potter movie), the product placement galore scene in the hotel is pastiche, the dialogue and acting performances between Brosnan and Berry are embarrassing beyond words, the slow mo action edits are bad taste, Jinx' CGI jump is obnoxious and silly, Madonna's cameo is a travesty, the sexual innuendos are childish, the invicible car is ridiculous... :-&

    Rant over... but I could go on...

    The pre-title sequence is ok.

    It’s downhill from the end of Cuba IMO.

    However, how does Bond leave a PoW camp after a year and leave chubby?? 🤣😂

    Perhaps because it's just a film and it didn't actually happen? The Bond actors have never exactly been into method acting, even in the most serious incarnations. Ditto Sean Connery's weight fluctuations during DAF. Film "reality" is but the outline of a dream.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,589
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    DaltonFan wrote: »
    @Dragonpol: Fun fact: His father was also a Bond fan until Die Another Day because for some nutty reason he got upset that the bad guys were North Korean.

    Yes, I've read that the film didn't go down well in North Korea. I suppose that's an understandable reaction from a Communist dictatorship heavily reliant on censorship though.

    I've also read that the current North Korean leader's father, Kim Jong-il, learned to speak English from watching Star Trek episodes. Oh, and Klingon as well. ;)

    My bet is thar he was also insulted to have the Bond villain be a petulant child.

    Maybe it hit a little too close to home?

    I just wished the film hadn't been that bad.

    Me too. It's my least favourite film in the series. Instead of focusing on one or two specific areas it tries to be all things to all people and fails miserably.

    The first half is good, though, right? It's only when he goes to Iceland that it falls to pieces. Or do you hate it all?

    In my case I hate it all.

    Yeah, the somewhat fashionable "the first half of DAD is actually good" notion does not resonate with me. The PTS action is boring (can we please aim higher than generic machine gun action in mud?), Madonna's theme song is still horrible, Bond's escspe is utterly bizarre (more at home in a Harry Potter movie), the product placement galore scene in the hotel is pastiche, the dialogue and acting performances between Brosnan and Berry are embarrassing beyond words, the slow mo action edits are bad taste, Jinx' CGI jump is obnoxious and silly, Madonna's cameo is a travesty, the sexual innuendos are childish, the invicible car is ridiculous... :-&

    Rant over... but I could go on...

    The pre-title sequence is ok.

    It’s downhill from the end of Cuba IMO.

    However, how does Bond leave a PoW camp after a year and leave chubby?? 🤣😂

    Perhaps because it's just a film and it didn't actually happen? The Bond actors have never exactly been into method acting, even in the most serious incarnations. Ditto Sean Connery's weight fluctuations during DAF. Film "reality" is but the outline of a dream.

    Nailed it. Also it could be a case of swollen stomach? You see this sometimes with people who are starving; the damage from starvation on your stomach can cause it to swell.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,230
    I get that he doesn't look like a PoW (actors rarely do), but the idea that Brosnan is overweight in Die Another Day is hilarious. Those prisoner sequences aside, he looks great throughout the film.
  • Posts: 7,507
    I get that he doesn't look like a PoW (actors rarely do), but the idea that Brosnan is overweight in Die Another Day is hilarious. Those prisoner sequences aside, he looks great throughout the film.

    He didn't say overweight, he said "chubby", and I would agree with that.

    It might be that Craig has set a somewhat unreasonable standard, but I hope future Bond actors also put in the work to be in great physical condition when shooting the film.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited February 2021 Posts: 8,230
    jobo wrote: »
    I get that he doesn't look like a PoW (actors rarely do), but the idea that Brosnan is overweight in Die Another Day is hilarious. Those prisoner sequences aside, he looks great throughout the film.

    He didn't say overweight, he said "chubby", and I would agree with that.

    They're synonyms - one is just cheekier and less intense than the other. Believe me, I spent a lot of my teenage years being called one or the other. They mean the same thing. It's a laughable suggestion.
  • Posts: 15,218
    suavejmf wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    DaltonFan wrote: »
    @Dragonpol: Fun fact: His father was also a Bond fan until Die Another Day because for some nutty reason he got upset that the bad guys were North Korean.

    Yes, I've read that the film didn't go down well in North Korea. I suppose that's an understandable reaction from a Communist dictatorship heavily reliant on censorship though.

    I've also read that the current North Korean leader's father, Kim Jong-il, learned to speak English from watching Star Trek episodes. Oh, and Klingon as well. ;)

    My bet is thar he was also insulted to have the Bond villain be a petulant child.

    Maybe it hit a little too close to home?

    I just wished the film hadn't been that bad.

    Me too. It's my least favourite film in the series. Instead of focusing on one or two specific areas it tries to be all things to all people and fails miserably.

    The first half is good, though, right? It's only when he goes to Iceland that it falls to pieces. Or do you hate it all?

    In my case I hate it all.

    Yeah, the somewhat fashionable "the first half of DAD is actually good" notion does not resonate with me. The PTS action is boring (can we please aim higher than generic machine gun action in mud?), Madonna's theme song is still horrible, Bond's escspe is utterly bizarre (more at home in a Harry Potter movie), the product placement galore scene in the hotel is pastiche, the dialogue and acting performances between Brosnan and Berry are embarrassing beyond words, the slow mo action edits are bad taste, Jinx' CGI jump is obnoxious and silly, Madonna's cameo is a travesty, the sexual innuendos are childish, the invicible car is ridiculous... :-&

    Rant over... but I could go on...

    The pre-title sequence is ok.

    It’s downhill from the end of Cuba IMO.

    However, how does Bond leave a PoW camp after a year and leave chubby?? 🤣😂

    He was forced fed bangers and mash.

    Not but seriously thus is another flaw of DAD.
  • Posts: 7,507
    Ludovico wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    DaltonFan wrote: »
    @Dragonpol: Fun fact: His father was also a Bond fan until Die Another Day because for some nutty reason he got upset that the bad guys were North Korean.

    Yes, I've read that the film didn't go down well in North Korea. I suppose that's an understandable reaction from a Communist dictatorship heavily reliant on censorship though.

    I've also read that the current North Korean leader's father, Kim Jong-il, learned to speak English from watching Star Trek episodes. Oh, and Klingon as well. ;)

    My bet is thar he was also insulted to have the Bond villain be a petulant child.

    Maybe it hit a little too close to home?

    I just wished the film hadn't been that bad.

    Me too. It's my least favourite film in the series. Instead of focusing on one or two specific areas it tries to be all things to all people and fails miserably.

    The first half is good, though, right? It's only when he goes to Iceland that it falls to pieces. Or do you hate it all?

    In my case I hate it all.

    Yeah, the somewhat fashionable "the first half of DAD is actually good" notion does not resonate with me. The PTS action is boring (can we please aim higher than generic machine gun action in mud?), Madonna's theme song is still horrible, Bond's escspe is utterly bizarre (more at home in a Harry Potter movie), the product placement galore scene in the hotel is pastiche, the dialogue and acting performances between Brosnan and Berry are embarrassing beyond words, the slow mo action edits are bad taste, Jinx' CGI jump is obnoxious and silly, Madonna's cameo is a travesty, the sexual innuendos are childish, the invicible car is ridiculous... :-&

    Rant over... but I could go on...

    The pre-title sequence is ok.

    It’s downhill from the end of Cuba IMO.

    However, how does Bond leave a PoW camp after a year and leave chubby?? 🤣😂

    He was forced fed bangers and mash.

    Not but seriously thus is another flaw of DAD.

    Some say they even put him in the dreaded comfy chair with the dastardly soft cushions while they force fed him ;)
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,250
    They're synonyms - one is just cheekier and less intense than the other. Believe me, I spent a lot of my teenage years being called one or the other. They mean the same thing. It's a laughable suggestion.

    Then it is important that we respect that, @CraigMooreOHMSS. I'm sure @jobo will too.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
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    As someone struggling with their weight since childhood, I'd be enthusiastic if I looked like that. The hair is getting there after 3 months of lockdown. But he also doesn't look like a POW, that much is true.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,230
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    They're synonyms - one is just cheekier and less intense than the other. Believe me, I spent a lot of my teenage years being called one or the other. They mean the same thing. It's a laughable suggestion.

    Then it is important that we respect that, @CraigMooreOHMSS. I'm sure @jobo will too.

    Cheers, @DarthDimi. Any decent folk would, that's for sure! :)
    ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bondsuits.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F09%2FHospital-Pyjamas.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

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    As someone struggling with their weight since childhood, I'd be enthusiastic if I looked like that. The hair is getting there after 3 months of lockdown. But he also doesn't look like a POW, that much is true.

    Also, I had never noticed this before but doesn't it look like he has drastically less chest hair in the second shot? I know he has just come out of the water etc. and perhaps the lighting is causing it to be less visible.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    They're synonyms - one is just cheekier and less intense than the other. Believe me, I spent a lot of my teenage years being called one or the other. They mean the same thing. It's a laughable suggestion.

    Then it is important that we respect that, @CraigMooreOHMSS. I'm sure @jobo will too.

    Cheers, @DarthDimi. Any decent folk would, that's for sure! :)
    ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bondsuits.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F09%2FHospital-Pyjamas.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

    ?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.payneful.co.uk%2Fblogsplosion%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2FDieAnotherDay-005.png&f=1&nofb=1

    As someone struggling with their weight since childhood, I'd be enthusiastic if I looked like that. The hair is getting there after 3 months of lockdown. But he also doesn't look like a POW, that much is true.

    Also, I had never noticed this before but doesn't it look like he has drastically less chest hair in the second shot? I know he has just come out of the water etc. and perhaps the lighting is causing it to be less visible.

    I think he looks pretty different overall in the two shots. Which could be down to various things including the lower picture probably being a screengrab while the top photo could conceivably be an on-set photo.
  • Posts: 15,218
    ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bondsuits.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F09%2FHospital-Pyjamas.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

    ?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.payneful.co.uk%2Fblogsplosion%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2FDieAnotherDay-005.png&f=1&nofb=1

    As someone struggling with their weight since childhood, I'd be enthusiastic if I looked like that. The hair is getting there after 3 months of lockdown. But he also doesn't look like a POW, that much is true.

    Well, you've never been detained and tortured in a North Korean prison for more than a year.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    Starting to feel like it though...
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,589
    I’ve watched DAD many times and the thought that Bond at any point in the film is “chubby” never even began to enter my mind. Completely insane.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited February 2021 Posts: 7,198
    I’ve watched DAD many times and the thought that Bond at any point in the film is “chubby” never even began to enter my mind. Completely insane.

    Same for me. It did cross my mind about Connery in DAF though, but I don't think that comes as a surprise to anyone. In fact, I think Connery looks in better shape in NSNA than he does in DAF.
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