Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • edited March 2021 Posts: 2,917
    Blofeld's oil platform in DAF also survives, though the buildings on its top get blown up. Consider it a halfway case.

    The oil platform is also another instance of the lower-budget feel of the early 70s Bonds.
    The rented setting isn't a bad location, but nothing very interesting is done with it.

    The planned climax had been for Blofeld to escape in his Bathosub--Bond would tie the long rope of a weather balloon to the conning tower of the sub and catch a perilous ride by holding onto the balloon. The sub would surface on a beach in Mexico, with Blofeld emerging to find Bond hanging from the balloon. Blofeld quips "Mary Poppins, I presume" and shoots the balloon, sending Bond into the sea. Bond swims out and chases Blofeld into a salt mine. A fight ensues, with Blofeld falling to his death in a salt granulator. Felix arrives with the authorities and asks "Where's that bastard Blofeld?" Bond replies, "Bastard? He's the salt of the Earth." Red-colored salt gushes from the granulator...

    Alas, the owners of the salt mine chosen by Guy Hamilton refused permission for their industrial plant to be filmed. Hamilton was already under tight budgetary and time constraints and decided to scrap the sequence.

    One could argue that filmed version of DAF's climax at least kept the door open for Blofeld to return (even if it was badly filmed and unsatisfying). But since Bond already killed two of Blofeld's doubles, a future film could have just argued that the Blofeld who died in the salt mine was another duplicate.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2021 Posts: 16,381
    An oil rig does make sense as a Bond lair, but in practice it’s just ugly and a bit boring.

    Thanks for the info about the salt mine though, that sounds not a bad sequence.
  • Posts: 15,116
    Revelator wrote: »
    Blofeld's oil platform in DAF also survives, though the buildings on its top get blown up. Consider it a halfway case.

    The oil platform is also another instance of the lower-budget feel of the early 70s Bonds.
    The rented setting isn't a bad location, but nothing very interesting is done with it.

    The planned climax had been for Blofeld to escape in his Bathosub--Bond would tie the long rope of a weather balloon to the conning tower of the sub and catch a perilous ride by holding onto the balloon. The sub would surface on a beach in Mexico, with Blofeld emerging to find Bond hanging from the balloon. Blofeld quips "Mary Poppins, I presume" and shoots the balloon, sending Bond into the sea. Bond swims out and chases Blofeld into a salt mine. A fight ensues, with Blofeld falling to his death in a salt granulator. Felix arrives with the authorities and asks "Where's that bastard Blofeld?" Bond replies, "Bastard? He's the salt of the Earth." Red-colored salt gushes from the granulator...

    Alas, the owners of the salt mine chosen by Guy Hamilton refused permission for their industrial plant to be filmed. Hamilton was already under tight budgetary and time constraints and decided to scrap the sequence.

    One could argue that filmed version of DAF's climax at least kept the door open for Blofeld to return (even if it was badly filmed and unsatisfying). But since Bond already killed two of Blofeld's doubles, a future film could have just argued that the Blofeld who died in the salt mine was another duplicate.

    With all the flaws the demise of Blofeld has I'm FYEO, it's better than the one we would have had in DAF. I keep thinking Blofeld was the wrong villain for the film and its American setting.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,291
    Blofeld should have died in DAF. He doesn't really make sense with any Bonds afterward.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited March 2021 Posts: 18,270
    echo wrote: »
    Blofeld should have died in DAF. He doesn't really make sense with any Bonds afterward.

    Or even better he should've died in YOLT if they'd filmed the Bond novels in the proper order (TB-OHMSS-YOLT). Then we could've had the Spangs or more likely some substitute villain in DAF instead.
  • Posts: 15,116
    echo wrote: »
    Blofeld should have died in DAF. He doesn't really make sense with any Bonds afterward.

    Given the DAF we got, I would have hated for him to die then.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,381
    echo wrote: »
    Blofeld should have died in DAF. He doesn't really make sense with any Bonds afterward.

    He doesn't really appear afterwards though! By the time he pops up again properly the whole thing has been rebooted.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited March 2021 Posts: 6,291
    Think on it. No Blofeld after 1971.

    No "You've made your point" in TSWLM. (-1)
    No PTS for FYEO (+1).
    No "He was married once, but it was a long time ago." (-1)
    No "Have you ever lost a loved one, Mr. Bond?" (+1)
    No SP (+1)

    The plusses have it!

    I'm purposely leaving out a few vaguer pseudo-references like "Mrs. Bond?" and Trevelyan's taunt because Bond barely reacts.

    Blofeld's strongest (only?) characteristic is that he recurs! And possibly the cat. At any rate, he's no Moriarty.

    Blofeld and/or Tracy only had a history with Connery, Lazenby, and Moore. I would even argue that Moore feels Tibbett's death more strongly than Tracy's.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,381
    Mentions of Tracy aren't appearances of Blofeld though.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,291
    mtm wrote: »
    Mentions of Tracy aren't appearances of Blofeld though.

    Yes, but they kind of get excised together.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,381
    I'm not sure what we're talking about. Killing him off in DAF wouldn't stop him being mentioned afterwards, much like it didn't stop Tracy from being mentioned.
  • Posts: 15,116
    mtm wrote: »
    I'm not sure what we're talking about. Killing him off in DAF wouldn't stop him being mentioned afterwards, much like it didn't stop Tracy from being mentioned.

    And it wouldn't stop them using Blofeld again once the series got rebooted and they got the rights to the character.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,291
    The series would be better off without Blofeld after 1971 (I would say 1969 but DAF gave a little bit of closure to OHMSS). He's too tied to Connery/Lazenby and the '60s.
  • Posts: 15,116
    echo wrote: »
    The series would be better off without Blofeld after 1971 (I would say 1969 but DAF gave a little bit of closure to OHMSS). He's too tied to Connery/Lazenby and the '60s.

    I don't think he is. He's been overused in the past, yes, but a recurring, resilient villain is a strength for any series if used properly.

    Also given the radical and frankly baffling switch of tone in DAF, I don't think there was any true closure done with the character.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,381
    echo wrote: »
    The series would be better off without Blofeld after 1971

    And until 2015 (after the reboot, where anything goes) it is! He doesn't appear.

    Wheelchair guy in FYEO doesn't exactly make a massive impact on the film (and Blofeld was never in a wheelchair! :D Yes, I know that's a bit of a cheat, but it's true!).

  • Posts: 1,630
    Please recall the producers had no legal rights to use the Blofeld character for years and years. The PTS sequence in FYEO was terrific, though it certainly and barely skirted the issue of rights. Really, it didn't, and likely could have been a point of more litigious contention. But the fans got a little fun.
  • Posts: 1,630
    By the way, it would have been fun for the producers to have Christoph Waltz's Blofeld come out bald in NTTD. Shaved for some reason or another in Evil Mastermind prison. Were he released as part of a deal made by politicians, have him left off in an alley, and then a limo comes to pick him up (a moment for an homage to Goldfinger's Rolls ?), and in the limo...a fluffy white cat with a diamond necklace. Blofeld smiles. "Did you miss me ?" his line as the limo pulls away. Mind you, GF's Rolls had the open driver's seat, so the question becomes -- would you show a large, strong, quiet gentleman driving ? Perhaps not a direct Oddjob reference, but maybe Hinx ? Rather like "Blofeld" in the FYEO PTS, he could be wearing a neckbrace. Not to suggest he's now serving as Blofeld's driver, but something more like doing him a favor. So -- Blofeld approaches. "Thanks for doing me this favor on such short notice." Hinx nods. Blofeld continues, "I never forget a favor from a friend. Let's talk business during the drive, shall we ?" then gets in, cat, etc. Ah, well. Too late, it seems.
  • Posts: 631
    I love Kananga's lair! One of my favorites! And TMWTGG has some of the best production design in the series: the Queen Elizabeth, Scaramanga's living/dining area, Lazar's workshop. Love it.

    To be controversial: I don't think the volcano base or supertanker are particularly great sets. They're great construction projects of course, but the volcano base is only very interesting or impressive in distant shots, where you can't see what anybody's doing anyway. In YOLT, they keep pulling back and doing establishment shots to remind you "We really built this whole thing" but there's no real way to shoot anything interesting on it because when you get down to where you can see faces and action it's just a lot of brown rock.

    Ken Adam's best work was easily on Dr No, though he did make some great large sets on Moonraker, where it's not overboard in scope and you actually have things to look at even when you're up close. The non-volcano sets in YOLT are wonderful too.

    I can see what you mean about the volcano set.

    It has some additional problems too, rather major ones IMO. Firstly the forced perspective is overdone, it just looks like it’s got a tilted roof. Secondly they only built three sides, they never built the fourth side (or even just part of the fourth wall), the side behind the camera. So it looks really obvious that it’s a set, like we’re in a theatre.

    I know the Liparus set doesn’t get very much love here, but I think it’s magnificent. Its layout is really clear architecturally as soon as you see it. You see the subs and the docks and the gantries and the wall at the end, and within seconds you are fully orientated as to where things are. I think the fact that it has bilateral symmetry helps.

    Also, it is a proper 360 set with all four walls built. So you feel inside it, rather than just looking at it.

    As a final thought I find it the most threatening set too, because of all the nuclear missile submarines in there. The place contains something like 30 to 40 fully armed nuclear missiles for much of the time. YOLT’s volcano doesn’t contain within it the same threat.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2021 Posts: 16,381
    I love Kananga's lair! One of my favorites! And TMWTGG has some of the best production design in the series: the Queen Elizabeth, Scaramanga's living/dining area, Lazar's workshop. Love it.

    To be controversial: I don't think the volcano base or supertanker are particularly great sets. They're great construction projects of course, but the volcano base is only very interesting or impressive in distant shots, where you can't see what anybody's doing anyway. In YOLT, they keep pulling back and doing establishment shots to remind you "We really built this whole thing" but there's no real way to shoot anything interesting on it because when you get down to where you can see faces and action it's just a lot of brown rock.

    Ken Adam's best work was easily on Dr No, though he did make some great large sets on Moonraker, where it's not overboard in scope and you actually have things to look at even when you're up close. The non-volcano sets in YOLT are wonderful too.

    I can see what you mean about the volcano set.

    It has some additional problems too, rather major ones IMO. Firstly the forced perspective is overdone, it just looks like it’s got a tilted roof. Secondly they only built three sides, they never built the fourth side (or even just part of the fourth wall), the side behind the camera. So it looks really obvious that it’s a set, like we’re in a theatre.

    I know the Liparus set doesn’t get very much love here, but I think it’s magnificent. Its layout is really clear architecturally as soon as you see it. You see the subs and the docks and the gantries and the wall at the end, and within seconds you are fully orientated as to where things are. I think the fact that it has bilateral symmetry helps.

    Also, it is a proper 360 set with all four walls built. So you feel inside it, rather than just looking at it.

    As a final thought I find it the most threatening set too, because of all the nuclear missile submarines in there. The place contains something like 30 to 40 fully armed nuclear missiles for much of the time. YOLT’s volcano doesn’t contain within it the same threat.

    Can't entirely disagree there. I do love the volcano set, it's an incredible achievement, but it is one of Adam's proscenium arch sets, which he did do a fair bit, whereas the Liparus is, as you say, a 360 set which we as the audience actually enter. But it also looks absolutely awesome from that viewpoint which he designed it from: directly from in front of the middle Sub.

    I really love that set with the magnet and the sharks: it's almost too lovely and intricate for the relatively short scene it contains- it looks like it was really hard to build!
  • Posts: 15,116
    We need more food porn in the films.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,270
    Ludovico wrote: »
    We need more food porn in the films.

    To match with the original Fleming Bond novels? Certainly!
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,291
    The films that (in my opinion, strain to) give multiple meanings to the title are among the worst: DAF, TMWTGG, and QoS.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    Ludovico wrote: »
    We need more food porn in the films.

    Generally more lifestyle porn. Once Nicholas Hoult takes over the role, I want the aesthetic of the films to go full Instagram influencer.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2021 Posts: 16,381
    Ludovico wrote: »
    We need more food porn in the films.

    The Food Programme on Radio 4 tomorrow will actually be all about the food of Bond :)

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000tm9f

    We don’t often see James Bond eating in the films, but in the novel food is almost as important as espionage, cocktails, sex, villains and travel. As many await the release of the new Bond film, we want to take your taste buds on a journey, to the flavours that were so unimaginably exotic when these books were written in the 1950s and 60s.

    Tom Jaine, former restaurateur and editor of The Good Food Guide, came of age when the Bond books were written. He remembers sneaking a copy of Casino Royale from his parents’ book group and being transported by it’s exoticism. The food was completely beyond the imagination for a post-war generation who were newly out of rationing.

    We meet Edward Biddulph, archaeologist by day, Bond enthusiast by night who has written Licence to Cook, in which he recreates the meals in the Bond books. Edward teaches Sheila how to make Bond’s most iconic dish - scrambled eggs.

    Biographer Andrew Lycett explains how the appetites of Ian Fleming made it into James Bond’s own tastes. And food journalist Clare Finney connect with the desire to be transported on a culinary adventure when the world around you is rather drab.



    Kind of amazing Mr Biddulph didn't call his book 'Licence To Grill', but maybe that's a bit too on the nose :D
  • Posts: 7,507
    Ludovico wrote: »
    We need more food porn in the films.

    The only thing I don't like about Craig's portrayal of Bond is the lack of sophistication.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,381
    I'm not really seeing that. He wears a suit to walk across rooftops and when he's waiting for a Rolls Royce in the desert: he's pretty sharp and sophisticated! :)
  • edited March 2021 Posts: 1,469
    I'm not sure if you're both speaking of sophistication here as relating more to personality or not, but as mtm mentions the suit, I think wardrobe as an extension of sophistication is certainly an interesting aspect of the Bond films. When I think of Craig's Bond, I remember him more in scenes where he's wearing short-sleeve or pullover shirts or occasionally a turtleneck, I think. He has looked good in a suit in some scenes, but overall I think the more casual look suits both his "grittier" personality and equally or more so his particular physique. Regarding sophistication, I think Roger Moore portrayed that the best on most levels, and I instantly see him looking dapper in suits--Pierce Brosnan too--though both have more casual or sporty wear in various scenes; I think of Roger's navy blue outfit on Columbo's yacht, and his climbing attire in FYEO. In OHMSS, I was impressed by George Lazenby's outfit when he walks into the hotel at the beginning, an off-white suit with pink shirt and navy blue tie (it's probably not that often that Bond could pull off pink), though of course he had more casual or sporty wear in other scenes. I think Connery looked at home in both suits and casual wear. Dalton, probably turtlenecks and more casual wear, though I haven't seen LTK in a long time so can't recall wardrobe too well in that.
  • Posts: 15,116
    mtm wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    We need more food porn in the films.

    The Food Programme on Radio 4 tomorrow will actually be all about the food of Bond :)

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000tm9f

    We don’t often see James Bond eating in the films, but in the novel food is almost as important as espionage, cocktails, sex, villains and travel. As many await the release of the new Bond film, we want to take your taste buds on a journey, to the flavours that were so unimaginably exotic when these books were written in the 1950s and 60s.

    Tom Jaine, former restaurateur and editor of The Good Food Guide, came of age when the Bond books were written. He remembers sneaking a copy of Casino Royale from his parents’ book group and being transported by it’s exoticism. The food was completely beyond the imagination for a post-war generation who were newly out of rationing.

    We meet Edward Biddulph, archaeologist by day, Bond enthusiast by night who has written Licence to Cook, in which he recreates the meals in the Bond books. Edward teaches Sheila how to make Bond’s most iconic dish - scrambled eggs.

    Biographer Andrew Lycett explains how the appetites of Ian Fleming made it into James Bond’s own tastes. And food journalist Clare Finney connect with the desire to be transported on a culinary adventure when the world around you is rather drab.



    Kind of amazing Mr Biddulph didn't call his book 'Licence To Grill', but maybe that's a bit too on the nose :D

    There might be a technical reason for seeing less food in the movies. Isn't it difficult to keep food looming good and piping hot after multiple takes?
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    edited March 2021 Posts: 1,351
    Ludovico wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    We need more food porn in the films.

    The Food Programme on Radio 4 tomorrow will actually be all about the food of Bond :)

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000tm9f

    We don’t often see James Bond eating in the films, but in the novel food is almost as important as espionage, cocktails, sex, villains and travel. As many await the release of the new Bond film, we want to take your taste buds on a journey, to the flavours that were so unimaginably exotic when these books were written in the 1950s and 60s.

    Tom Jaine, former restaurateur and editor of The Good Food Guide, came of age when the Bond books were written. He remembers sneaking a copy of Casino Royale from his parents’ book group and being transported by it’s exoticism. The food was completely beyond the imagination for a post-war generation who were newly out of rationing.

    We meet Edward Biddulph, archaeologist by day, Bond enthusiast by night who has written Licence to Cook, in which he recreates the meals in the Bond books. Edward teaches Sheila how to make Bond’s most iconic dish - scrambled eggs.

    Biographer Andrew Lycett explains how the appetites of Ian Fleming made it into James Bond’s own tastes. And food journalist Clare Finney connect with the desire to be transported on a culinary adventure when the world around you is rather drab.



    Kind of amazing Mr Biddulph didn't call his book 'Licence To Grill', but maybe that's a bit too on the nose :D

    There might be a technical reason for seeing less food in the movies. Isn't it difficult to keep food looming good and piping hot after multiple takes?

    Difficult, but not impossible. I think the bigger problem is keeping the shots consistent, when you have multiple angles and the plate is at various stages of being eaten in the different takes. I think filmmakers are more apprehensive of stuff like that now than they were 20 years ago because there will immediately be entries in the IMDb "goofs" section and YouTube videos and all of that stuff. But it's something a top crew should be able to navigate.
    I also remember hearing that many actors hate having to eat on screen, because depending on the director you might do dozens of takes and then maybe even the pick-up from the other side and you have to shovel food into you face every single time. That is why you will often see people gesticulating with food on their fork without actually putting it in their mouths.
    A more egregious one that I find fun to track after hearing about it is whether there actually is any liquid in cups actors are carrying around. Especially on TV you can see quite clearly that they are empty most of the time.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,381
    Ludovico wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    We need more food porn in the films.

    The Food Programme on Radio 4 tomorrow will actually be all about the food of Bond :)

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000tm9f

    We don’t often see James Bond eating in the films, but in the novel food is almost as important as espionage, cocktails, sex, villains and travel. As many await the release of the new Bond film, we want to take your taste buds on a journey, to the flavours that were so unimaginably exotic when these books were written in the 1950s and 60s.

    Tom Jaine, former restaurateur and editor of The Good Food Guide, came of age when the Bond books were written. He remembers sneaking a copy of Casino Royale from his parents’ book group and being transported by it’s exoticism. The food was completely beyond the imagination for a post-war generation who were newly out of rationing.

    We meet Edward Biddulph, archaeologist by day, Bond enthusiast by night who has written Licence to Cook, in which he recreates the meals in the Bond books. Edward teaches Sheila how to make Bond’s most iconic dish - scrambled eggs.

    Biographer Andrew Lycett explains how the appetites of Ian Fleming made it into James Bond’s own tastes. And food journalist Clare Finney connect with the desire to be transported on a culinary adventure when the world around you is rather drab.



    Kind of amazing Mr Biddulph didn't call his book 'Licence To Grill', but maybe that's a bit too on the nose :D

    There might be a technical reason for seeing less food in the movies. Isn't it difficult to keep food looming good and piping hot after multiple takes?

    Probably, but is there less food in the Bond movies? They’re adventure films, he can’t be sitting down for dinner all the time :)
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