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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 16,162
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Revelator wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    What about King Arthur and First Knight?

    Just joking. ;-)

    Ah well, it's not actually bad, just mediocre, and seeing Connery as King Arthur was worth the price of admission. What other actor could so authoritatively play mythic figures--King Arthur, Robin Hood, James Bond, Agamemnon, Hotspur, and the Green Night?

    Sean Connery or not, First Knight was terrible. Sean Connery was the right actor for King Arthur, but to write the character as a geriatric bachelor was stupid. As for Richard Gere, the less said the better.

    I remember enjoying the film only for Connery, but finding Gere the weak link.
    I've never had the desire to revisit it.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    The big issue with that film was that the leading lady had strong chemistry with Connery, and very little with Gere. So when her character falls for Gere it breaks believability.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    edited June 2021 Posts: 3,262
    IGotABrudder wrote: »
    There’s only one character, just one, in the films that I would like to have seen a bit more of, and that was the Apollo airways stewardess in MR. “Any higher, Mr Bond, and my ears will pop.”

    They should have made a hundred films about her ... ah well

    I have similar feelings about Lady Victoria Devon from the same film.

    I don't know how controversial this opinion is but lately I've been preferring "James Bond with Bongos" from FRWL:



    to the original James Bond theme from DN:

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    I’ve always preferred that version because of the slower tempo, the build up, and of course the use of bongos (which I’m usually against, with this exception!)
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,116
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    The big issue with that film was that the leading lady had strong chemistry with Connery, and very little with Gere. So when her character falls for Gere it breaks believability.

    There's many issues with the movie, but let's face it, making Connery a cuckold to Richard Gere is grossly impossible.

    As a medievalist who wrote his thesis on Chrétien de Troyes, I can also say that there's nothing remotely faithful, in spirit or otherwise, to the source material, which is supposed to be "Le chevalier de la charrette".
  • AstonLotusAstonLotus
    Posts: 1,394

    Mallory wrote: »
    I too like the whole QoS title sequence. The women coming out of the sand is a particularly nice touch.

    I think the terrible song gives the QOS title sequence a bad reputation.I’ve always liked the visuals of that title sequence but the song...ugh!

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    The song is easily the worst of all title songs. Absolute trash.
  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,507
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    The song is easily the worst of all title songs. Absolute trash.

    I beg to differ. DAD is much worse.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,116
    jobo wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    The song is easily the worst of all title songs. Absolute trash.

    I beg to differ. DAD is much worse.

    Yes. As terrible as the QOS song was, it's still better than DAD.

    Oh and it appears that others think a Bondverse with spinoffs and so on would be the way to go: https://screenrant.com/no-time-die-james-bond-franchise-fix-after-how/amp/

    I'll say it again: oh Hell no!
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,571
    Really like AWTD - it's rock, it's orchestral, it's bombastic. DAD, apart from the strings, is merely a repetitive dance song that came at a time when, IMO, Madonna's music was going through a creative slump. If she had been approached in the 1990s, particularly around '98, her theme would have sounded very Bondian. The title sequence would have looked completely different though.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,270
    jobo wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    The song is easily the worst of all title songs. Absolute trash.

    I beg to differ. DAD is much worse.

    It's certainly different and much more experimental as far as Bond songs go. As a song I find it OK, especially the extended end tune but as a Bond song I suppose it is rather "out there". For me I think the worst Bond song is the latest Billie Eilish song for NTTD. It's just too understated and whispery for a Bond song. It needed to come alive a lot more and it just never really did.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    jobo wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    The song is easily the worst of all title songs. Absolute trash.

    I beg to differ. DAD is much worse.

    Nah, DAD is at least trying something unique. With QOS, it felt like they just wanted to repeat CR by picking a rock act again, but what we get is the most incompatible artists collaborating to make a song that just reminds me of a strangling cat. Just because it’s Jack White on guitars doesn’t make it less crap.
  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,507
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    The song is easily the worst of all title songs. Absolute trash.

    I beg to differ. DAD is much worse.

    Nah, DAD is at least trying something unique. With QOS, it felt like they just wanted to repeat CR by picking a rock act again, but what we get is the most incompatible artists collaborating to make a song that just reminds me of a strangling cat. Just because it’s Jack White on guitars doesn’t make it less crap.

    On the contrary, Madonna's generic techno beat is extremely unoriginal. And it's a bad song regardless of wether it's a Bond song or not.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    You call DAD “unoriginal” and “generic” yet regard AWTD as somehow better? This is bizarre. Truly bizarre.

    But then again, TND has fans, so nothing is impossible.
  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,507
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    You call DAD “unoriginal” and “generic” yet regard AWTD as somehow better? This is bizarre. Truly bizarre.

    But then again, TND has fans, so nothing is impossible.

    It is not bizarre at all. I consider DAD a worse song than AWTD. You were the one who made it a discussion about perceived "originality". The truth is neither songs are original. One of them however is horrible and one is just forgettable.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    I said it was trying to be unique in that Madonna could have easily coasted by singing to an orchestra in a traditional Bondian style, but instead she indulged in the electroclash sub genre that she was at the time immersed in. Even if I didn’t like the song, I could respect her for swinging for the fences instead of adhering to convention.

    The only innovative thing about AWTD is a duet, which is great if only their vocals didn’t clash so horribly.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,116
    DAD sounds like a Madonna song. That's it. I would have rather listened to something more traditional.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    I’m always in favor of throwing aside tradition. One of the unfortunate things to happen to something groundbreaking like Bond films, SNL, etc was that they became institutions when they originally set out to be an outlier. Part of my fondness for Craig was that they largely decided to veer away from what was expected of Bond traditionally, like having M as the female lead for one film.

    The Madonna song was one of the few instances that the Brosnan era was allowed to break away from that traditional sound that became so stale, especially when David Arnold was the creative director. Thankfully Chris Cornell actually wrote his own song instead of leaving it all to David Arnold and having Don Black write lyrics.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,116
    I'd actually say that the Craig era is in many ways coming back to tradition, after it's been cluttered by peripheral elements, such as gadgets. Sure, they are there, but they are far less prominent. You have also the return of the recurring threat, a generally more vulnerable Bond, a more serious tone overall, etc.
  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,507
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    I’m always in favor of throwing aside tradition. One of the unfortunate things to happen to something groundbreaking like Bond films, SNL, etc was that they became institutions when they originally set out to be an outlier. Part of my fondness for Craig was that they largely decided to veer away from what was expected of Bond traditionally, like having M as the female lead for one film.

    The Madonna song was one of the few instances that the Brosnan era was allowed to break away from that traditional sound that became so stale, especially when David Arnold was the creative director. Thankfully Chris Cornell actually wrote his own song instead of leaving it all to David Arnold and having Don Black write lyrics.

    I agree with your point, but it doesn't make sense in the context of the previous discussion. A rock song like AWTD is not in line with traditional Bond themes only because the previous song happened to be a rock song as well (and a very different rock song at that...). To claim that Madonna's techno song is a break with tradition, and AWTD isn't, doesn't make much sense. (Or it's "truly bizarrre" as another poster here would patronizingly put it... cough... cough...) I don't think anyone would listen to AWTD and say, "yes, this is keeping with Bond tradition".

    If you think DAD is the better song, fine. You are entitled to your opinion. Let's leave it at that...
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    We’ve had rock songs prior to Craig, even if it wasn’t the typical route due to the series usually preferring bombastic themes or ballads. Electroclash was of a very specific subgere and time that I doubt we’ll ever see again. Going the rock route clearly was a conscious effort to continue what Cornell started, but with a different spin.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    edited June 2021 Posts: 9,028
    I'm pretty sure I wrote this before in the last 4 1/2 years on this board, but before QOS came out, they released a video of AWTD that was visually unconnected to Bond. And I thought, they couldn't really mean it and elevate that crap to a Bond theme. Next time I saw (and listened to) it in context...and I felt a lot better about it! Different, yes, but quite appropriate for the situation. No chance of being even near my favourite Bond theme, but beats Madonna's crap by miles. DAD is the worst Bond theme ever, and is likely to remain in that position.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure I wrote this before in the last 4 1/2 years on this board, but before QOS came out, they released a video of AWTD that was visually unconnected to Bond. And I thought, they couldn't really mean it and elevate that crap to a Bond theme. Next time I saw (and listened to) it in context...and I felt a lot better about it! Different, yes, but quite appropriate for the situation. No chance of being even near my favourite Bond theme, but beats Madonna's crap by miles. DAD is the worst Bond theme ever, and is likely to remain in that position.

    There's always NSNA. ;-)
  • MalloryMallory
    Posts: 2,163
    @DarthDimi NSNA has a decent opening 15 seconds going for it. Thats about it, but more than DAD.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    Nah, the NSNA title song is the worst if you count that movie. The kind of 80s cheese that the EON films luckily avoided (though LTK came close)
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited June 2021 Posts: 24,179
    Mallory wrote: »
    @DarthDimi NSNA has a decent opening 15 seconds going for it. Thats about it, but more than DAD.

    I think they are both horrible songs. ;-) Whoever imagined that it was a good idea to throw some electro pop in our face, was delusional. It may have been 'hip' at the time, but it lost its 'hipness' almost instantly. The lyrics are another problem. Few of the Bond themes are worthy of Shakespearean praise, but DAD isn't even cheeky, playful or clever. It's just a collection of empty phrases.

    Its one saving grace is that Kleinman at least knew how to minimize the damage. But yeah, it's baaaaad (as Jinx would say.)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    And Madonna got the last laugh when her song was the biggest hit for Bond since AVTAK, and there wouldn’t be another until Adele threw her two cents.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    And Madonna got the last laugh when her song was the biggest hit for Bond since AVTAK, and there wouldn’t be another until Adele threw her two cents.

    I bet that if Madonna had recorded herself while snoring in her sleep and put a funky beat on that, it would have been a hit too. ;-)
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    And Madonna got the last laugh when her song was the biggest hit for Bond since AVTAK, and there wouldn’t be another until Adele threw her two cents.

    I bet that if Madonna had recorded herself while snoring in her sleep and put a funky beat on that, it would have been a hit too. ;-)

    You mean to say that's not what she actually did?!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    ProfJoeButcher wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    And Madonna got the last laugh when her song was the biggest hit for Bond since AVTAK, and there wouldn’t be another until Adele threw her two cents.

    I bet that if Madonna had recorded herself while snoring in her sleep and put a funky beat on that, it would have been a hit too. ;-)

    You mean to say that's not what she actually did?!

    Good one, @ProfJoeButcher! =)) What would Sigmund Freud have to say about this?

    "I need to lay down."

    *Shrugs*
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