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Agreed with all of this. If FYEO hadn’t resorted to Looney Tunes humor “MEESTA BOOOOOOOOOONNNNDDD” *crash* and stuck with the more somber note at the beginning it would have felt satisfactory. But John Glen can’t help himself but end his PTSs with a joke.
Bond was on the receiving end of that, and was more than ready to serve up justice as later with Locque regarding Ferrara. But probably long ago he decided the dead don't care about vengeance, and until Ernst surfaced with another deadly scheme (or crazy attack) 007 had moved on.
So I think the adage is consistent there.
That's a good point, and actually might work to tie the PTS in with the rest of the film thematically (even if I'm not convinced the makers of the film realised it!). I've never thought of that!
Also, the whole intent behind the PTS was originally to introduce a new Bond and showing him go to Tracy’s grave was a swift way to tell audiences that it’s the same man (debunking the Bond is a codename theory). They just kept it after Moore agreed to a fifth film.
Then once it exists on film, there is some making sense of it storywise and relating it to the other missions. So my approach adds to how I enjoy them.
Diamonds Are Forever and A View to Kill are tough for me. I'll always watch them when going back through all the movies but I can never see myself putting one of them in just to watch on a slow day.
I should also add that this is the first time EVER - in 20 years of being a Bond fan - that an EON film rates lower than a non-EON film for me. NSNA is, in my eyes, a hair better than DAF even though both are pretty awful.
As a follow up to OHMSS it fails but it was always intended as a stand-alone Bond adventure.The PTS can be seen as Bond getting revenge for Tracey but I just take it as a follow up to YOLT with Bond trying to track down Blofeld after realising he survived the Volcano explosion.
It's hard for me to dismiss DAF because it has Connery and Barry.
TMWTGG and AVTAK rank a bit lower but they still have Barry and some decent Moore moments.
DAD has none of these advantages.
But the former movies don't have a giant solar laser melting an ice hotel
These are of two of the reasons why it's so disappointing for me, conversely. It has all the elements you could need and some of them (mainly Barry's score) work really well, but overall it's rubbish. I found it a real slog the last time I watched it.
See, for me there's just so much more to enjoy in AVTAK. DAF looks and feels grotty, and although it does have plenty of excellent lines it just sorts of flops along, looking horrible. I don't think it even has any decent set pieces at all (that buggy chase is possibly the low point: where absolutely nothing happens: they just drive around) and then it all culminates in maybe the most depressing finale of them on that ugly oil rig.
The score is lovely.
AVTAK is kind of my comfort food when it comes to Bond: I pretty much love it unconditionally and even the cheesy bits I find totally charming. DAF just doesn't do the same, although it's not the worst film ever made.
I have the complete opposite view. Up front, DAF was the first Bond film I saw in a cinema when it was released, so there's always going to be that. But I just have a good time with it still. The elevator fight alone is vintage Bond and better than anything I can think of in the entirety of AVTAK.
On the flip side, I saw AVTAK opening weekend and couldn't have been more disappointed. I've always personally found when Bond arrives in San Francisco up until the action moves to the mine it's one of the most boring stretches in any Bond film. Less than stellar Connery is more appealing than less than stellar Moore for me. And I may be one of the only people who finds Barry's AVTAK score possibly his weakest. Love the title song and some of the slower versions of it but overall it's not a fun standalone listening experience and I rarely listen to that score.
I wouldn't disagree about the AVTAK score: DAF is much better on that front. But it's still John Barry so miles above most movies.
DAF has two reasons for its popularity: 1)Sean Connery was perceived then as the one and only Bond, and 2)Sean Connery could do no wrong, whatever approach or tone.
I think people make that assumption based on the weight he gained, as if he couldn’t be arsed to lose it. But he only got the role on short notice by a few weeks prior to filming, and wasn’t going to be able to go back to his early 1960s physique so swiftly, especially since he was 40.
Incidentally I think a fair few of the films are tonally a mess. OP is probably the worst IMO (just in terms of tonal consistency, not the film as a whole) but AVTAK and DAD are not far behind.
DAF was the first of three films I 'prepared' her for. (We skipped CR67 and NSNA for obvious reasons.) The other two are TMWTGG and MR. Knowing the kind of stuff that would pose a challenge for her, DAF got me nervous. Let's just say that early 1970's America, the style, the look, the lingo... is something she's entirely unfamiliar with. I tried to sit her down for Dirty Harry once and she zoned out after about 10 minutes. And then there's Tiffany, the kind of dumb, floozy portrayal of women that she just absolutely resents.
Well, she looked at me funny when the "Cai--Cai--Cairo" dude's lips didn't move, when a mud bath had suddenly become lethal, when everybody is so geriatrically slow to respond to threads (I mean, Fake Blofeld just basically lets Bond do what he wants), ... And things went down from there. She sighed at the scorpion bite scene, gave a loud "Oh, come oooon!" with the circus scenes, and she wanted it all to just stop as soon as the oil rig is shown.
But her most effective comment of all, something that's always stuck with me, is that DAF looks like an episode from a TV series. Since DN, everything had looked so wide, so cinematic, so rich in beautiful vistas. Even indoor scenes had almost always been filmed with relatively wide angles. But DAF looks small, like something filmed in your neighbors' house. And I agree with her. Apart from Blofeld's penthouse or where Whyte is being kept, too many places feel like quickly put together sets for the next episode of Dallas.
So my wife still considers DAF the very worst of the bunch. She had slightly less of a problem with TMWTGG (although she did overall very much struggle with the 'Hamilton trilogy' post OHMSS) but absolutely rejected MR as a Bond film, though not as much as DAF. That was the low point in the series for her. I have since done my best to explain that DAF is not to be viewed through the same goggles as the likes of FRWL, OHMSS, CR or LTK. I have also confessed to her that its many flaws and imperfections are exactly why I like DAF, like cheap, canned food that spreads strong odours and looks like it will poison you, but you still want some every once in a while.
I guess it takes a certain type of Bond fan, enough background knowledge and context, and a ton of our Community discussions to turn the silliest and arguably cheapest looking of the Bonds into an outrageous yet deliciously enjoyable Bond film.
And at least our relationship did survive the experience. ;-)
Secondly, it seems like you made a great choice as her opinions on DAF mirror my own. ;)