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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited August 2021 Posts: 16,383
    Pussy's name comes from the books, I was talking about her name. Her being a lesbian is also heavily implied in the film too, the original context for her name survives into the movie as well.
    You're a fan of taking things literally, so as 'galore' tends to mean an abundance of things in plural, do we think it suggests she has many pussies? Or does it perhaps mean that she's a fan of many of them?

    Yes, I'm not sure why Plenty has her name because it's not a great joke as played in the film. You're also uncertain about it because you think it's parody of the Pussy scene even though it doesn't really play that way, and that's fine too. We both think it's linked to the Pussy meaning, so that's all good.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited August 2021 Posts: 1,711
    @mtm, I'll leave it at this then, as you seem annoyed and I certainly feel annoying...! I don't think one scene is a parody of another scene, I think Plenty's name is a parody of Pussy's name because it's a ridiculous direct reversal of a ridiculous name and it's a movie which is broadly sending up previous Bond films. If there were a character called Silvertoe or Ms Yes, it would be odd to wonder aloud what the intent was, and the context of the scene would have little bearing on that.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited August 2021 Posts: 24,179
    I don't believe we have to think too hard about Plenty's name. We know that the original intention for DAF was to basically return to the GF well of gold. I presume Plenty's name is just a leftover from that. And so 'Pussy Galore' <-> 'Plenty O'Toole'. I don't know if it's a simple as that, but overthinking anything in the "Hamilton trilogy" is not going to take us to a happy place. ;-)
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited August 2021 Posts: 1,711
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I don't know if it's a simple as that, but overthinking anything in the "Hamilton trilogy" is not going to take us to a happy place. ;-)

    :))

    Overthinking is not the Guy Hamilton way!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    ProfJoeButcher wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I don't know if it's a simple as that, but overthinking anything in the "Hamilton trilogy" is not going to take us to a happy place. ;-)

    :))

    Overthinking is not the Guy Hamilton way!

    "Just roll with it," seems to be the best path to intellectually surviving these films. And I'm not complaining. Let's just say that MR and DAD make way more sense to me than anything in the Hamilton trilogy. Is that controversial, though? I'm not even sure 'bout that. ;-)
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    ProfJoeButcher wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I don't know if it's a simple as that, but overthinking anything in the "Hamilton trilogy" is not going to take us to a happy place. ;-)

    :))

    Overthinking is not the Guy Hamilton way!

    "Just roll with it," seems to be the best path to intellectually surviving these films. And I'm not complaining. Let's just say that MR and DAD make way more sense to me than anything in the Hamilton trilogy. Is that controversial, though? I'm not even sure 'bout that. ;-)

    You know, for all their excesses, I find MR and DAD to be mostly logically constructed movies. In my opinion, it's really the ones that take themselves more seriously that open themselves up to plothole nitpicks or whatever. "Hang on, this doesn't really make sense" comes to my mind more often on a FRWL or CR than on a MR or DAD. Moonraker is like Disneyland, where you pay a big price going in, accepting the world on offer, and something like Casino Royale is more like a carnival where you repeatedly have to pay small amounts of (intellectual) capital....
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    ProfJoeButcher wrote: »
    You know, for all their excesses, I find MR and DAD to be mostly logically constructed movies. In my opinion, it's really the ones that take themselves more seriously that open themselves up to plothole nitpicks or whatever.

    Well, there's always TWINE to easily back this up. ;-)
    ProfJoeButcher wrote: »
    Moonraker is like Disneyland, where you pay a big price going in, accepting the world on offer

    Yes! Absolutely. Excellent way of phrasing things too. "MR is like Disneyland." I'm going to commit that one to memory. :-D
  • Since62Since62
    Posts: 1,630
    Wow trying to make strict sense of a joke is a doomed exercise. They don't have to make sense, and often do not.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited August 2021 Posts: 18,270
    Since62 wrote: »
    Wow trying to make strict sense of a joke is a doomed exercise. They don't have to make sense, and often do not.

    Indeed, and a lot of these types of jokes such as adorn the sillier James Bond films are designed to be read more than one way so different parts of the audience can still enjoy them. They are put in so that they work on more than one level though of course there is often one main intended interpretation of the joke. Ultimately of course, it's left to the individual viewer's discretion as to what it means. The double entendre is probably the simplest from of this kind of thing and the Bond films are littered with examples of this type of humour.
  • AstonLotusAstonLotus
    Posts: 1,394
    Regarding Craig tossing away items.It kinda worked for CR when he’s flicking away the car keys but in the following films ( especially QOS ) it comes across as him trying too hard to come across as a bad ass to the point where he just looks like an ass.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    I don’t see it as him trying, he IS a badass.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,296
    Controversial opinion: DAF is the best Bond song.

    It is original, perfectly matches the mood of the film it's in, uses a Fleming title but doesn't overuse it, and does not overly rely upon the Bond theme or another song (GF).
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,116
    echo wrote: »
    Controversial opinion: DAF is the best Bond song.

    It is original, perfectly matches the mood of the film it's in, uses a Fleming title but doesn't overuse it, and does not overly rely upon the Bond theme or another song (GF).

    I don't think it's the best Bond song, but it's a great one and the one genuinely great thing about the film.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    I definitely agree that it’s Bassey’s best song. I’m not sure what’s THE best Bond song, but DAF is a serious competitor.

    Here’s mine: I don’t really like McCartney’s LALD song. Like “Band on the Run”, it feels very schizophrenic with the changing of modes throughout the song that just made it hard for me to get into. It’s not a good rock tune. It’s just the typical McCartney whimsical noise.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 16,162
    echo wrote: »
    Controversial opinion: DAF is the best Bond song.

    It is original, perfectly matches the mood of the film it's in, uses a Fleming title but doesn't overuse it, and does not overly rely upon the Bond theme or another song (GF).

    A superb Bond song. One of my favorites. My controversial opinion: DAF is a masterpiece Bond film and a excellent sequel to OHMSS.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    It’s not an excellent sequel, but it’s still excellent! And seeing Connery again after having to endure the block of wood that is Lazenby is always refreshing!
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 16,162
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    It’s not an excellent sequel, but it’s still excellent! And seeing Connery again after having to endure the block of wood that is Lazenby is always refreshing!

    Yeah, sequel isn't the right word. But I'd say it's a decent follow up. I'm satisfied with Bond pursuing Blofeld in the PTS as a revenge for Tracy. At the same time, it also works for those who wanted to forget OHMSS at the time.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    I tend to view it as a YOLT follow up, but Connery’s brutality in the PTS does make me think it could work. In fact it makes me wish Connery had not only done OHMSS but then DAF would actually be a straight up sequel.

    But what’s done is done.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    I just watched some of Calvin Dys
    echo wrote: »
    Controversial opinion: DAF is the best Bond song.

    It is original, perfectly matches the mood of the film it's in, uses a Fleming title but doesn't overuse it, and does not overly rely upon the Bond theme or another song (GF).

    I don't think that would be too controversial: I feel like most would agree it's one of the best.
  • Quantum_of_TomorrowQuantum_of_Tomorrow
    Posts: 508
    More controversial opinion: I don't like any of Shirley Bassey's Bond songs. Too loud and ear-piercing for GF and too far the other way for DAF and MR. Moonraker is the least bad in my opinion though.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited August 2021 Posts: 1,711
    Quantum_of_Tomorrow wrote: »
    More controversial opinion: I don't like any of Shirley Bassey's Bond songs. Too loud and ear-piercing for GF and too far the other way for DAF and MR. Moonraker is the least bad in my opinion though.

    I agree on two points... I find GF to be a very irritating song with ridiculous lyrics, and Moonraker is definitely my favorite of the three. I wish that one was 30 minutes long. It's lovely.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    It's not my favourite score but I think it's the best score in terms of peak Bond
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    Quantum_of_Tomorrow wrote: »
    More controversial opinion: I don't like any of Shirley Bassey's Bond songs. Too loud and ear-piercing for GF and too far the other way for DAF and MR. Moonraker is the least bad in my opinion though.

    I do tend to agree on that one: I think they're great songs but I'm not a fan of her voice. Moonraker is okay because she's not being too strident in it: I think I'd have preferred Sinatra or Mathis to have sung it though.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,296
    I think a Frank Sinatra MR would have been a classic, just because it's Sinatra. It's easy to imagine this song sung in his voice.

    As it stands, it feels less fresh because it's Bassey...again.

    Another controversial opinion: TB may be a better song than GF.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    echo wrote: »
    I think a Frank Sinatra MR would have been a classic, just because it's Sinatra. It's easy to imagine this song sung in his voice.

    As it stands, it feels less fresh because it's Bassey...again.

    Another controversial opinion: TB may be a better song than GF.

    Are they that different, though? My feeling is that Barry wanted to go for a different tune, but was then told to give us a GF². I like them both. GF is sexy, TB is powerful, but both are quite similar in many regards, at least in my opinion. ;-)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    I always love the Antony Newley version of Goldfinger: I think I might even prefer it in some ways.
  • AstonLotusAstonLotus
    Posts: 1,394
    echo wrote: »
    Controversial opinion: DAF is the best Bond song.

    It is original, perfectly matches the mood of the film it's in, uses a Fleming title but doesn't overuse it, and does not overly rely upon the Bond theme or another song (GF).

    I agree.It’s my favourite Bond song as well.
  • Quantum_of_TomorrowQuantum_of_Tomorrow
    Posts: 508
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    I think a Frank Sinatra MR would have been a classic, just because it's Sinatra. It's easy to imagine this song sung in his voice.

    As it stands, it feels less fresh because it's Bassey...again.

    Another controversial opinion: TB may be a better song than GF.

    Are they that different, though? My feeling is that Barry wanted to go for a different tune, but was then told to give us a GF². I like them both. GF is sexy, TB is powerful, but both are quite similar in many regards, at least in my opinion. ;-)

    TB is a GF 2, and that's why I don't like it.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    Quantum_of_Tomorrow wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    I think a Frank Sinatra MR would have been a classic, just because it's Sinatra. It's easy to imagine this song sung in his voice.

    As it stands, it feels less fresh because it's Bassey...again.

    Another controversial opinion: TB may be a better song than GF.

    Are they that different, though? My feeling is that Barry wanted to go for a different tune, but was then told to give us a GF². I like them both. GF is sexy, TB is powerful, but both are quite similar in many regards, at least in my opinion. ;-)

    TB is a GF 2, and that's why I don't like it.

    At least he gave us three entirely different and absolutely brilliant theme songs after that.
  • Quantum_of_TomorrowQuantum_of_Tomorrow
    Posts: 508
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Quantum_of_Tomorrow wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    I think a Frank Sinatra MR would have been a classic, just because it's Sinatra. It's easy to imagine this song sung in his voice.

    As it stands, it feels less fresh because it's Bassey...again.

    Another controversial opinion: TB may be a better song than GF.

    Are they that different, though? My feeling is that Barry wanted to go for a different tune, but was then told to give us a GF². I like them both. GF is sexy, TB is powerful, but both are quite similar in many regards, at least in my opinion. ;-)

    TB is a GF 2, and that's why I don't like it.

    At least he gave us three entirely different and absolutely brilliant theme songs after that.

    YOLT and OHMSS I agree on. DAF...well I suppose the actual song is solid, if you discount the singing and the lyrics
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