Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Posts: 1,146
    Here's another:

    The stairwell fight in Casino Royale is the best fight in the modern Bond era.
  • Posts: 2,402
    Here's another:

    The stairwell fight in Casino Royale is the best fight in the modern Bond era.

    Oooh, good one. Though you have a very strong case to be made there. Personally, I'd have to say the bathroom brawl in the PTS and Bond vs. Janus on the cradle in GE are the only two that top it.
  • Here's another:

    The stairwell fight in Casino Royale is the best fight in the modern Bond era.

    What is the modern era? However you define it, the stairwell fight is one of the best in Bond, regardless of the era. And the fact that it punctuates the incredible card game section makes it even more powerful.
  • Posts: 2,402
    Here's another:

    The stairwell fight in Casino Royale is the best fight in the modern Bond era.

    What is the modern era? However you define it, the stairwell fight is one of the best in Bond, regardless of the era. And the fact that it punctuates the incredible card game section makes it even more powerful.

    I think the modern Bond would be Dalton onwards.
  • Posts: 1,146
    I will say that it's a very tough call between that and the final fight in Goldeneye. Casino wins because it's a better picture and the fight is simply ferocious, but I like the Goldeneye fight a whole lot.
  • edited November 2013 Posts: 57
    Here's another:

    The stairwell fight in Casino Royale is the best fight in the modern Bond era.
    It's a brilliant fight, but the one in GoldenEye is better. It's a seriously savage scrap, that one. In fact, I might consider it the best from any of the Bond films.

    I've also always loved the one in the kitchen in TLD.
  • Posts: 6,396
    The boat chase in TWINE is over-long and insipid.
  • The boat chase in TWINE is over-long and insipid.

    Agreed. If the PTS was just the Bilbao bank escape it would've been one of the best in the series, but as it stands it suffers from 'too much too soon.'
  • The boat chase in TWINE is over-long and insipid.

    Agreed. If the PTS was just the Bilbao bank escape it would've been one of the best in the series, but as it stands it suffers from 'too much too soon.'

    I wholeheartedly agree.

  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited November 2013 Posts: 13,356
    Too much too soon? More like everything too soon. That's all it has to give us. Better to get it out of the way at the start, then we can just switch the film off.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    The boat chase in TWINE is over-long and insipid.

    Overlong - agreed.

    Insipid - I don't think so. The shots of Pierce getting facefuls of Thames water and the boat bouncing across the wake are superb, Gary Powell's barrel roll is a truly dangerous stunt done to perfection and some of the boatmanship is phenomenal.

    Before you think I'm being too praiseworthy however I'll add another adjective: inane.

    The opening in the wall where the boat jumps out of the MI6 building is utter bollocks. Why is there a small dock in Q branch with an opening onto the river which is 25 ft above the surface? Is the boat only designed for when the the ice caps have melted?

    Why, when the boat has no protective windscreen and Cigar Girl is shooting a pretty hefty machine gun at point blank range, does Bond not end up with a faceful of lead?

    Why after diving once to go under an obstacle does Bond not do the same later on when the surface is on fire rather than the more preposterous and likely to fail option of going down the street?

    Driving down the street for miles and even actually turning corners! How does the boat stay upright? How does it turn with just a rudder? Whatever happened to friction? Complete and utter bullshit.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited November 2013 Posts: 13,356
    Not to forget why is Cigar Girl waiting outside to begin with? Like she knew the hole in the wall would appear there.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Not to forget why is Cigar Girl waiting outside to begin with? Like she knew the hole in the wall would appear there.

    Fair point. The bomb is presumably to kill King and Bond brought the money/bomb and King the trigger so why is she there at all?

    What sort of terrorist sits outside MI6 waiting for their bomb to detonate?
  • edited November 2013 Posts: 6,396
    The boat chase in TWINE is over-long and insipid.

    Overlong - agreed.

    Insipid - I don't think so. The shots of Pierce getting facefuls of Thames water and the boat bouncing across the wake are superb, Gary Powell's barrel roll is a truly dangerous stunt done to perfection and some of the boatmanship is phenomenal.

    Before you think I'm being too praiseworthy however I'll add another adjective: inane.

    The opening in the wall where the boat jumps out of the MI6 building is utter bollocks. Why is there a small dock in Q branch with an opening onto the river which is 25 ft above the surface? Is the boat only designed for when the the ice caps have melted?

    Why, when the boat has no protective windscreen and Cigar Girl is shooting a pretty hefty machine gun at point blank range, does Bond not end up with a faceful of lead?

    Why after diving once to go under an obstacle does Bond not do the same later on when the surface is on fire rather than the more preposterous and likely to fail option of going down the street?

    Driving down the street for miles and even actually turning corners! How does the boat stay upright? How does it turn with just a rudder? Whatever happened to friction? Complete and utter bullshit.

    What is the purpose of the Q Boat performing a barrell roll? It makes no sense at all other than to serve the appetites of the filmmakers and stunt team to say "Hey! Do you remember the barrell roll in TMWTGG? We can do that with a boat too!" It doesn't help that you can see the jets on the top and bottom of the boat when it rolls.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited November 2013 Posts: 9,117
    The boat chase in TWINE is over-long and insipid.

    Overlong - agreed.

    Insipid - I don't think so. The shots of Pierce getting facefuls of Thames water and the boat bouncing across the wake are superb, Gary Powell's barrel roll is a truly dangerous stunt done to perfection and some of the boatmanship is phenomenal.

    Before you think I'm being too praiseworthy however I'll add another adjective: inane.

    The opening in the wall where the boat jumps out of the MI6 building is utter bollocks. Why is there a small dock in Q branch with an opening onto the river which is 25 ft above the surface? Is the boat only designed for when the the ice caps have melted?

    Why, when the boat has no protective windscreen and Cigar Girl is shooting a pretty hefty machine gun at point blank range, does Bond not end up with a faceful of lead?

    Why after diving once to go under an obstacle does Bond not do the same later on when the surface is on fire rather than the more preposterous and likely to fail option of going down the street?

    Driving down the street for miles and even actually turning corners! How does the boat stay upright? How does it turn with just a rudder? Whatever happened to friction? Complete and utter bullshit.

    What is the purpose of the Q Boat performing a barrell roll? It makes no sense at all other than to serve the appetites of the filmmakers and stunt team to say "Hey! Do you remember the barrell roll in TMWTGG? We can do that with a boat too!" It doesn't help that you can see the jets on the top and bottom of the boat when it rolls.

    Granted that is the real reason but I tend to suspend disbelief that Bond thinks 'I know - I'll take out that massive machine gun by jumping over the back of the boat. In the process I might get shot in the face or have my neck broken by the force of the water if I don't nail the barrel roll perfectly but that's a risk I'm prepared to take. Certainly its a more sensible option than firing my torpedoes at a stationary target - that would be sheer lunacy.'
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,823
    @TheWizardOfIce & @WillyGalore, congratulations: you two have put me off most of the boat scene in TWINE's PTS... :|
  • Posts: 6,396
    chrisisall wrote:
    @TheWizardOfIce & @WillyGalore, congratulations: you two have put me off most of the boat scene in TWINE's PTS... :|

    We aim to please ;-)
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    What sort of terrorist sits outside MI6 waiting for their bomb to detonate?
    Not only that but she starts shooting at the building in broad daylight and then seems surprised when someone is pursuing her. Granted, I wouldn't have expected a boat to come flying out of the building either but surely she must have considered the possibility that someone would have seen her. What exactly was her escape plan?
  • Posts: 1,976
    I like Diamonds are Forever better than Goldfinger
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited November 2013 Posts: 17,823
    fjdinardo wrote:
    I like Diamonds are Forever better than Goldfinger

    For the longest time I did too, but now I like them about evenly. Except GF's climax is the best in any Hamilton Bond.... IMO.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    chrisisall wrote:
    Except GF's climax is the best in any Hamilton Bond.... IMO.
    That's not saying much though :)
  • edited November 2013 Posts: 157
    The shots of Pierce getting facefuls of Thames water and the boat bouncing across the wake are superb, Gary Powell's barrel roll is a truly dangerous stunt done to perfection and some of the boatmanship is phenomenal.

    True, there are some nice moments, but like most of Vic Armstrong's action sequences it's pretty bland, and throws everything at the viewer hoping some of it will stick. No visual flair, tepid editing and pointless explosions galore.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    LeighBurne wrote:
    Here's another:

    The stairwell fight in Casino Royale is the best fight in the modern Bond era.
    It's a brilliant fight, but the one in GoldenEye is better. It's a seriously savage scrap, that one. In fact, I might consider it the best from any of the Bond films.

    I've also always loved the one in the kitchen in TLD.

    The GE fight better? With the way you described it, I think you need to watch the stairwell fight again and the Bond vs Slate fight from QoS; 2 fights that make the GE fight look elementary by comparison.

  • fjdinardo wrote:
    I like Diamonds are Forever better than Goldfinger


    So do I. Quite a bit better, actually.
  • The shots of Pierce getting facefuls of Thames water and the boat bouncing across the wake are superb, Gary Powell's barrel roll is a truly dangerous stunt done to perfection and some of the boatmanship is phenomenal.

    True, there are some nice moments, but like most of Vic Armstrong's action sequences it's pretty bland, and throws everything at the viewer hoping some of it will stick. No visual flair, tepid editing and pointless explosions galore.

    That's just it. The boat chase is bland, generic and fundamentally unexciting. And that goes for the vast majority of the action in both TWINE and TND.

  • doubleoego wrote:
    LeighBurne wrote:
    Here's another:

    The stairwell fight in Casino Royale is the best fight in the modern Bond era.
    It's a brilliant fight, but the one in GoldenEye is better. It's a seriously savage scrap, that one. In fact, I might consider it the best from any of the Bond films.

    I've also always loved the one in the kitchen in TLD.

    The GE fight better? With the way you described it, I think you need to watch the stairwell fight again and the Bond vs Slate fight from QoS; 2 fights that make the GE fight look elementary by comparison.

    I don't think the Slate fight is in the same class as the others mentioned here. It suffers from the same poor editing that plagues QOS' first third.

  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    It's definitely the worst in terms if how it's edited but the fight itself is arguably Bond's most violent fist fight.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,007
    I don't have a problem with the editing of the Bond vs. Slate fight, though it might be because I've watched it so much that I know exactly what's going on.
  • Creasy47 wrote:
    I don't have a problem with the editing of the Bond vs. Slate fight, though it might be because I've watched it so much that I know exactly what's going on.

    It's not so much the editing for me as the pace. It seems too stylized, in contrast with the raw brutality of Bond vs. Grant, Bond vs. Trevelyan, and Bond vs. Obanno. I still like it, though.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,007
    @Soundofthesinners, I feel that it's hectic enough to not feel terribly stylized. Bond is attacked out of the blue and he has to scavenge and use the room as his weapon, fast.
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