Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,620
    I guess at least the baddies in QoS were doing something clearly bad: inflicting suffering on people by removing and monetising their water supply. Scaramanga's plan seems to be... to give cheap limitless energy to the highest bidder. He's not even planning to do anyone any harm! He's the least evil villain in the series.
  • Posts: 1,650
    [quote="mtm

    Which might have been okay if he'd planned to use that gun, to blow up the moon or shoot down the space shuttle or something (I know there weren't shuttles then, but you know), but it's a pointless gun with no purpose and nothing to shoot at, and it turns out he wants to get out of the assassination business anyway and get into franchised power plants, which is a bit dull. He's not trying to destroy the world, he's a businessman looking to exploit a perfectly legal project which he has legitimately invested in (admittedly he murdered his business partner which makes him quite a git, but it's not really any of Bond's business). As evil plans go, it's not quite evil enough.[/quote]

    Brilliant !
    (At the traditional meal between Bond and the enemy, so brilliantly skewered in Kingsmen)
    "You see, Mr. Bond, I tire of all the killing. I've got plenty of money. I find that I can generate a greater return on my funds were I to simply invest in a grouping -- and it need be so many, it turns out ! -- of fast food franchises ! Rather than making a million for each assassination, I can make that much and more, and bring in more of those millions in, say, a year, than by assassinating people." Pauses..."Of course, I'm not giving up on being Eeee-vil. You see, by serving fast food to the masses, I will kill far more people than I ever could using my handy golden gun."

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited August 2021 Posts: 16,620
    Heh! Yeah, exactly.
    He's basically Zorin if Zorin hadn't planned to blow up Silicon Valley and just keep selling microchips. He's just a man doing business. At least Mr Big was selling drugs, which do harm! :)
  • Posts: 1,650
    In all seriousness, though -- or as serious as one could be about these things -- I'm a huge fan from the very beginning and saw all the films in real time. TMWTGG was scary, though, as a fan. It was obvious the franchise was in trouble. TSWLM brought Bond back and saved the series. As for TMWTGG, it was made very quickly right after LALD to try to keep the audience, and it was low-budget and looked it. It has that awful return of Sheriff JWPepper, and the disappointing use of a Hornet rather than a Javelin (because AMC discontinued the Javelin, the better looking genuine sports coupe with which the stunt was developed), a character who appeared solely for the sake of a dumb "joke" ("Chu Me"), Goodnight is just too dumb to even have held her position (rather like the agent who's afraid of things in LALD, and the character who's supposed to be a tough lady and winds up too good at playing dumb -- OK so she was trying to be innocuous and appear "safe" to Blofeld). Disappointing after having smart, tough, capable ladies in much -- though not all -- the roles in the prior films, and thankfully changed back in TSWLM with a properly tough agent in the lead with Bond. By the time we got to TMWTGG it seemed the producers had given up on a female audience: witness Chu Me, Dumb Goodnight, and the Bottoms Up Club...oh, so Thailand is known for sex tourism and the Bottoms Up Club is a mild example of what goes on there ? Well, that bit of realism wasn't about to entertain female audience members, nor was slapping around the person working for the villain whom you hope might help you !
    The jumping-on-the-bandwagon continued from LALD and was disappointing for a Bond movie, again. And what did the martial arts insertion in the film lead to ? Bond's surprisingly -- umm, ridiculously -- capable fighting companions and the local agent LEAVING him behind !!! That was not funny, and it made NO sense. After the one-two of LALD and TMWTGG it was painfully obvious that Bond was on the ropes. TSWLM was formulaic, yes, but followed a BOND formula, not jumping on someone else's bandwagon. And it was BIG. When that one came out -- even before, because the posters not only said so, but showed it -- BOND was BACK !
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,620
    I tend to think it's really pretty good up until the Kung Fu school, then it all just falls apart. Bond being drafted in by Maud Adams sending the bullet is a great way to start the plot, along with Bond investigating the path the bullet takes etc. but then it flounders and stalls and it feels like there's no plan for where the story is going. Lovely ideas like Scaramanga being a reflection of Bond just get kind of thrown away.
    It's the one Bond film I'd like to see remade, because there are the beginnings of so many good ideas in there, but they don't go anywhere.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited August 2021 Posts: 18,345
    mtm wrote: »
    I guess at least the baddies in QoS were doing something clearly bad: inflicting suffering on people by removing and monetising their water supply. Scaramanga's plan seems to be... to give cheap limitless energy to the highest bidder. He's not even planning to do anyone any harm! He's the least evil villain in the series.

    The thing that people tend to forget about his plan is that he intends to sell the giant sun gun as well and as Bond says that's trouble. That could obviously be very dangerous in the wrong hands. I do agree that he's one of the less evil Bond villains though, by comparison with the others.
  • Posts: 1,650
    Would you go to the book for more ? Bond and Goodnight in the shower to discuss matters confidentially -- for which they must disrobe to make believable. [Seems much easier -- unless they think they're being watched -- to communicate in sign language, by the way.] Goodnight seemingly on the tracks tied up as the train comes along, as in an old silent film. (Perhaps in this production, it could be Goodnight thinking Bond is tied up on the tracks. She doesn't blow the operation trying to save him, though, and remains outwardly cool and collected. Later on, Bond could humorously express his admiration mixed with disappointment over it.) The gruesome end of Scaramanga. Rather difficult to work in the beginning of a brainwashed Bond at MI6 without ending the prior film so as to set it up, or working it directly into the storyline of this TMWTGG remake. Like the first film, it really would need something added to it. Just not that much there in the book. Here's one idea which quickly comes to mind -- particularly after Scaramanga makes his point earlier that Bond and he are rather alike: Scaramanga thwarts some big-shot evil villain from killing many innocent people. So...does Bond kill Scaramanga after that ? It would serve even moreso to draw parallels between Scaramanga and Bond. Scaramanga could be a woman, by the way, and the storyline -- and what-does-Bond-do-ending sketched out above -- would be somewhat like that of Batman and Catwoman. Especially if Scaramanga kills only people who have it coming, ie, like people Bond kills.
  • Posts: 1,394
    I love the Kung fu school scene in TMWTGG.I think it’s hilarious,Especially when Bond kicks his first opponent in the face as they are bowing.Then as the next guy bows he’s careful to look Bond straight in the eye as he’s doing it 😅
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,620
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I guess at least the baddies in QoS were doing something clearly bad: inflicting suffering on people by removing and monetising their water supply. Scaramanga's plan seems to be... to give cheap limitless energy to the highest bidder. He's not even planning to do anyone any harm! He's the least evil villain in the series.

    The thing that people tend to forget about his plan is that he intends to sell the giant sun gun as well and as Bond says that's trouble. That could obviously be very dangerous in the wrong hands. I do agree that he's one of the less evil Bond villains though, by comparison with the others.

    Not much of an evil scheme though. Goldfinger already had one of those ten years earlier! :)
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited August 2021 Posts: 18,345
    mtm wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I guess at least the baddies in QoS were doing something clearly bad: inflicting suffering on people by removing and monetising their water supply. Scaramanga's plan seems to be... to give cheap limitless energy to the highest bidder. He's not even planning to do anyone any harm! He's the least evil villain in the series.

    The thing that people tend to forget about his plan is that he intends to sell the giant sun gun as well and as Bond says that's trouble. That could obviously be very dangerous in the wrong hands. I do agree that he's one of the less evil Bond villains though, by comparison with the others.

    Not much of an evil scheme though. Goldfinger already had one of those ten years earlier! :)

    That's a point. Somehow I'd forgotten about that! I think there were slight differences between the two lasers though. A continuous beam in GF and a kind of "fire and forget" beam in TMWTGG suggesting it was more economical and targeted than the one in GF. It is much the same technology though, I grant you.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited August 2021 Posts: 6,390
    Maybe it should have been something like: Scaramanga makes millions assassinating political figures, etc. Then when the countries come looking for him at his island getaway, he uses the laser golden gun as a defense? But it's up to Bond to stealthily infiltrate the island (LALD barracuda swim?) and take him out in a duel.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,714
    echo wrote: »
    Maybe it should have been something like: Scaramanga makes millions assassinating political figures, etc. Then when the countries come looking for him at his island getaway, he uses the laser golden gun as a defense? But it's up to Bond to stealthily infiltrate the island (LALD barracuda swim?) and take him out in a duel.

    That's pretty good! I agree with @mtm that TMWTGG is the most remakeable of the movies. But as is, I still love it, and think that it's a contender for best Bond film up until the sumo wrestlers show up...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,835
    Reading all this is actually fascinating (thanks guys), but my bottom line is that I enjoy it immensely, and there are no double-taking pigeons, no bad guys turning into balloons, no Tarzan yells... it's played as straight as it could be, and plot holes are not that big (for ME). I love the duel, and the ending! Good night, good night my dear.... ;)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,620
    echo wrote: »
    Maybe it should have been something like: Scaramanga makes millions assassinating political figures, etc. Then when the countries come looking for him at his island getaway, he uses the laser golden gun as a defense? But it's up to Bond to stealthily infiltrate the island (LALD barracuda swim?) and take him out in a duel.

    Something like that, yeah (you actually make it sound a bit like Shatterhand’s castle which is cool) but he needed to be poised to do one big hit which would plunge the world into chaos or something.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,345
    echo wrote: »
    Maybe it should have been something like: Scaramanga makes millions assassinating political figures, etc. Then when the countries come looking for him at his island getaway, he uses the laser golden gun as a defense? But it's up to Bond to stealthily infiltrate the island (LALD barracuda swim?) and take him out in a duel.

    That's a good sounding plot and certainly a lot better than the then topical Solex Agitator energy crisis plot that ended up getting married to the most dangerous assassin in the world plot in the film. In the literary sphere one novel that comes to mind that could work with this type of plot is John Gardner's Never Send Flowers (1993) where the villain kills famous people with the same level of senseless and irrational madness and wantonness as Ernst Stavro Blofeld and his Garden of Death in the novel of You Only Live Twice (1964). Basically just killing and allowing others to kill themselves en masse just because they're good at it and just because they can seemingly in the service of pure evil. So maybe that novel could be adapted as a kind of The Man with the Golden Gun II. It even has an animatronic theatre museum that could have been inspired by the funhouse in the film version of TMWTGG.
  • Posts: 1,650
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Reading all this is actually fascinating (thanks guys), but my bottom line is that I enjoy it immensely, and there are no double-taking pigeons, no bad guys turning into balloons, no Y

    You really do like it ! Enough to forget the Slide Whistle sound during the corkscrew car jump...and Chu Me...and placing Mini Me, I mean, Tattoo, I mean Nick Nack in a suitcase oh but that wasn't enough -- despite the cast, Bond places him way up a mast. ??? So, yes, more than enough silliness in this one, too. But you like it, so enjoy ! Heaven knows that trying to apply reason evenly will only get a fan to realizing pretty much each film has issues, just some more than others, and even then, it would depend on your preferred flavor of Bond and your mood.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,835
    Since62 wrote: »

    You really do like it ! Enough to forget the Slide Whistle sound during the corkscrew car jump...and Chu Me...and placing Mini Me, I mean, Tattoo, I mean Nick Nack in a suitcase oh but that wasn't enough -- despite the cast, Bond places him way up a mast. ??? So, yes, more than enough silliness in this one, too. But you like it, so enjoy ! Heaven knows that trying to apply reason evenly will only get a fan to realizing pretty much each film has issues, just some more than others, and even then, it would depend on your preferred flavor of Bond and your mood.

    I concur!
  • Posts: 15,233
    My four year old controversial opinion, not so much for a Bond film but a Bond actor: Pierce Brosnan's greatest role is the narrator of the Thomas the Tank Engine stories.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited August 2021 Posts: 18,345
    Ludovico wrote: »
    My four year old controversial opinion, not so much for a Bond film but a Bond actor: Pierce Brosnan's greatest role is the narrator of the Thomas the Tank Engine stories.

    What, he's even better than Ringo Starr? 😲
  • Posts: 15,233
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    My four year old controversial opinion, not so much for a Bond film but a Bond actor: Pierce Brosnan's greatest role is the narrator of the Thomas the Tank Engine stories.

    What, he's even better than Ringo Starr? ;)

    Don't know, but he's a better narrator of Thomas than he was a James Bond.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited August 2021 Posts: 18,345
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    My four year old controversial opinion, not so much for a Bond film but a Bond actor: Pierce Brosnan's greatest role is the narrator of the Thomas the Tank Engine stories.

    What, he's even better than Ringo Starr? ;)

    Don't know, but he's a better narrator of Thomas than he was a James Bond.

    A damning indictment of the Brosnan Bond. He is my least favourite Bond though so that's OK.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,228
    Second least favorite for me. Only because he can at least act.
  • Second least favorite for me. Only because he can at least act.

    Lazenby can act, it just wasn't as refined as the other 5.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,345
    Second least favorite for me. Only because he can at least act.

    Brosnan can act but Lazenby has to be given an allowance as it was his first acting role and it's widely agreed to be the best Bond film in the series.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,261
    I'm quite confident that Lazenby, had he done another Bond film and had he been given the proper mentoring, could have become quite the polished actor. A Bond production, in the hands of the right people, strikes me as very conducive to "artistic" skill-building after all. He'd probably never have been called the greatest thespian of his time but he was a smooth charmer as well as a burly "brawler", two talents well worth something. Of course, he would've had to shake off that "I don't give a bleep" attitude and try to live the role rather than the stardom, but he strikes me as a talented entertainer, someone who mightn't have been able to go full-on Shakespeare, but who could have been good enough for parts that were more demanding in other corners of the art of acting.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited August 2021 Posts: 8,228
    *delete*
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,702
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    My four year old controversial opinion, not so much for a Bond film but a Bond actor: Pierce Brosnan's greatest role is the narrator of the Thomas the Tank Engine stories.

    What, he's even better than Ringo Starr? 😲

    I’m American, so I’m biased towards George Carlin being my favorite narrator. It was so against his type. He was so proud of it.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited August 2021 Posts: 18,345
    Second least favorite for me. Only because he can at least act.

    Brosnan can act but Lazenby has to be given an allowance as it was his first acting role and it's widely agreed to be the best Bond film in the series. It is my favourite as I feel it's the closest adaptation of a Fleming novel we've seen thus far and they've of filmmaking and storytelling was of a consistently very high standard.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited August 2021 Posts: 8,228
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Second least favorite for me. Only because he can at least act.

    Brosnan can act but Lazenby has to be given an allowance as it was his first acting role and it's widely agreed to be the best Bond film in the series. It is my favourite as I feel it's the closest adaptation of a Fleming novel we've seen thus far and they've of filmmaking and storytelling was of a consistently very high standard.

    Whether it’s his first film or not is irrelevant. The performance we got is the performance we got, and it’s pretty wooden compared to the other five actors. And the film IS great, but that’s in spite of Lazenby, not because of him. I credit Peter Hunt for how solid OHMSS is.
  • Posts: 15,233
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Second least favorite for me. Only because he can at least act.

    Brosnan can act but Lazenby has to be given an allowance as it was his first acting role and it's widely agreed to be the best Bond film in the series. It is my favourite as I feel it's the closest adaptation of a Fleming novel we've seen thus far and they've of filmmaking and storytelling was of a consistently very high standard.

    My controversial opinions about the OHMSS to LALD time period:
    1)Only Moore could have been maybe, maybe, MAYBE accepted as Connery's successor for OHMSS.
    2)Only Connery could have sold DAF. Put any other actor and the franchise would have ended then and there.
    3)Only Moore could succeed to Sean Connery.
    And here's another one:
    4)Dalton's tenure was doomed from the start.
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