Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited August 2021 Posts: 24,183
    Probably not controversial, but that’s a big reason I hate the “Silva hacks into MI6” scene in Skyfall. Trying to make hacking look cool and visual in movies almost always results in the opposite lol.

    Michael Mann's BlackHat was heavily criticised but according to IT people, he got the computer stuff right. We see people look at lines of code the way they should look in real life.

    Ever since THE NET, computer hacking has been farcical. But if I can't believe that this could be even remotely like the real thing, I have a hard time buying it.

    Now, I am willing to roll with it in a Bond film. I just wish they wouldn't treat us like little kids who equate flashy and beepy to computering like a boss.
  • Posts: 15,124
    Probably not controversial, but that’s a big reason I hate the “Silva hacks into MI6” scene in Skyfall. Trying to make hacking look cool and visual in movies almost always results in the opposite lol.

    Real hacking is far less spectacular visually. But that's the thing: sexing it up is common to most if not all movies.
  • Oh for sure, and I totally get the impulse why movies do this, it just always comes across a bit like “old people don’t know how computers work” to me lol. I guess file hacking alongside the internet and cell phones as tech innovations that have hampered the plausibility and/or cool factor of many a film.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    I don't really mind interfaces looking nice (although it would be nice to see someone in a film use a mouse!) but I must admit I have no idea how the 'Granborough Road' thing is supposed to work: it seems like a visual puzzle more than any sort of logic thing.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    mtm wrote: »
    I don't really mind interfaces looking nice (although it would be nice to see someone in a film use a mouse!) but I must admit I have no idea how the 'Granborough Road' thing is supposed to work: it seems like a visual puzzle more than any sort of logic thing.

    You blew my mind a bit there: mouse use is indeed rather uncommon in films! :))

  • Yeah I don’t understand it either — something about the code conforming to a map of the London Underground, but beyond that I’m not exactly sure. I think they made it look so flashy to sort of distract us from the fact it doesn’t really make sense. That whole sequence is easily my least favorite part of Skyfall (maybe tied with the out of character/tone Komodo dragon bit).
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    Yeah I don’t understand it either — something about the code conforming to a map of the London Underground, but beyond that I’m not exactly sure.

    Yeah, and I kind of remember the map appearing from Q using a method of visualisation that it seemed unlikely Silva would have been able to predict: especially as the film makes it clear that Q is new to this bit of MI6.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited August 2021 Posts: 8,188
    Ludovico wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I don't know how controversial this is, but I think the Bond films, so far and apart from a few exceptions, have done a lousy job of presenting practical, useful, efficient computer interfaces.

    1) There's too much going on.

    Strange, colourful and useless bars, weird moving elements, ... QOS is the absolute worst in this regard. Absolutely meaningless circles, dots and lines flash all over the screen, but it takes ages before useful information appears. If I were doing a desk job at MI6 all day, having to look for intel hidden in a kaleidoscopic jungle of sensory distractions, I'd go home an epileptic.

    2) Things make noises.

    When my PC is processing something, it only produces a faint sound if the cooling system is doing extra work. My software isn't beeping while zooming in on something or printing out a text on the screen. One ping informs me of a finished search. That's it. Why is the MI6 software going BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP with every dotted line appearing on screen? Haven't we evolved past Blade Runner's video system from 1982, when all of this was new and cool and futuristic?

    3) It looks childish, not professional.

    I play video games that present their menus in flashy colours and full of beeps and whatnot. But any software even remotely professional uses colours very sparingly lest they distract, works with the dullest of fonts and gives me what I need instantly rather than zoom in over a ten-second interval (with beeps) or print out intel word for word. And, again, it . makes . no . sounds!

    I like the computer screen Natalya sits at when trying to reprogram the goldeneye in Cuba. A blank, grey-ish screen ready to take lines of code. That's what I'm talking about. QOS, meanwhile, tries to feel extremely sophisticated but actually looks like it's getting ready for us to play Dance Dance Revolution. Yeah yeah, the Bonds exist in a fantasy realm and such, but they still want to make things look really cool and professional in every other way. Then stick to sober but useful designs, with as few unnecessary cosmetic distractions as possible. This isn't Star Trek, Star Wars or The Forbidden Planet. Every high school student is taught to drop stuff that moves, unnecessary animations, colour schemes with more than two or three colours and things that keep you waiting from their presentations. But MI6, for some reason, chooses '70s space funk as a template for their highly sophisticated spy software? Yeah, so not really.

    I think it's a common thing in movies in general, especially spy thrillers: computing always looks overly complicated and flashy. Rule of cool I guess.

    It’s a Unix system, I know this!
  • Posts: 5,994

    It’s a Unix system, I know this!

    Weeeeellllll !
    Aluminum Christmas Trees: The 3D file manager that Lex uses near the end is actually real. It was a shell for the IRIX operating system (which is indeed a UNIX derivative) made by Silicon Graphics, who used to be a major Hollywood supplier of CGI technology. They even released a limited Jurassic Park edition of the computer with the company co-founder's signature.

    From the TV Tropes page about the movie you're quoting from.

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Of course, 3D imaging was all the rage in the 90s. Like that shot of a lab worker using VR tech to play with DNA!
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    These over-the-top GUIs are kind of like the modern version of the science lab filled with dry ice and Tesla coils.
  • Posts: 15,124
    mtm wrote: »
    I don't really mind interfaces looking nice (although it would be nice to see someone in a film use a mouse!) but I must admit I have no idea how the 'Granborough Road' thing is supposed to work: it seems like a visual puzzle more than any sort of logic thing.

    You blew my mind a bit there: mouse use is indeed rather uncommon in films! :))

    Don't we see Q using one in SF?
    Oh for sure, and I totally get the impulse why movies do this, it just always comes across a bit like “old people don’t know how computers work” to me lol. I guess file hacking alongside the internet and cell phones as tech innovations that have hampered the plausibility and/or cool factor of many a film.

    And all exaggerations aside, the plots of both SF and SP are fairly plausible. Heck compared to some cyberthreats we've had recently Silva comes off as a borderline amateur.

    Other controversial opinion and a bit paradoxical as I love the film: FYEO is maybe the most tonally inconsistent Bond movie. I think it sort of works, but I have no idea how.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    Ludovico wrote: »
    FYEO is maybe the most tonally inconsistent Bond movie. I think it sort of works, but I have no idea how.

    I think this applies to both FYEO and OP, but there's a difference. FYEO jumps from its over-the-top PTS to a more dramatic film with a funky car chase in it. But overall, I think FYEO knows what it's doing and keeps a straight face.

    OP, by contrast, is essentially a very light-hearted semi-slapsticky comedy with a few relatively tense and darkly dramatic scenes dispersed in it.
  • Posts: 7,507
    mtm wrote: »
    I don't really mind interfaces looking nice (although it would be nice to see someone in a film use a mouse!) but I must admit I have no idea how the 'Granborough Road' thing is supposed to work: it seems like a visual puzzle more than any sort of logic thing.

    Well, there is a mouse in SP. And there are even three of them in DN ;)
  • DarthDimi wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    FYEO is maybe the most tonally inconsistent Bond movie. I think it sort of works, but I have no idea how.

    I think this applies to both FYEO and OP, but there's a difference. FYEO jumps from its over-the-top PTS to a more dramatic film with a funky car chase in it. But overall, I think FYEO knows what it's doing and keeps a straight face.

    OP, by contrast, is essentially a very light-hearted semi-slapsticky comedy with a few relatively tense and darkly dramatic scenes dispersed in it.

    Yes, OP is generally light-hearted with a few dark moments, FYEO is a bit of a tonal mess, might even beat DAD as the most tonally inconsistent Bond film because at least when that film starts not to take itself seriously, it continues to do that.
  • Posts: 1,630
    Interesting observations re FYEO. I recall well how the producers said and did bring the story back to earth, after MR left the planet. But -- they couldn't resist some nonsense ! The entire inclusion in the story of the girl young enough to be Bond's daughter -- nearly granddaughter -- was terrible. As with the young folks in the car in Germany pooling away from Bond after teasing him with an offered ride in their car, it served only to highlight the actor's age. Why on earth do that ?!!?
  • I definitely agree that FYEO is the most tonally inconsistent of the films. I always remember it as the “dark and grounded” Moore film, and while that’s technically true due to the comparison with the others it’s still like 50/50 in terms of silliness and seriousness. In that regard the PTS doesn’t really stick out to me as odd because its randomness and weirdness is practically repeated throughout the film on a scene to scene basis.
  • Posts: 1,630
    Just realized that the pigeons startling Bond in the PTS for TLD might have been a call back to a somewhat similar moment for Bond climbing the tower of stone in FYEO.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited August 2021 Posts: 18,281
    Since62 wrote: »
    Just realized that the pigeons startling Bond in the PTS for TLD might have been a call back to a somewhat similar moment for Bond climbing the tower of stone in FYEO.

    Yes, John Glen used his pigeon motif a lot. Every Glen Bond film has that type of animal jump scare moment when you think about it though it's a cat instead of a pigeon in AVTAK. Pigeons feature I FYEO, OP, TLD and LTK. You could say that AVTAK is a cat among the pigeons. ;)
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    I find the FYEO tone thing surprising. The movie is bookended with silliness, but nothing in the middle is very silly.

    All the movies have darker and lighter moments, but none of them are really all that dark. Bibi isn't exactly Jar Jar Binks, and the car chase is another statement of intent: Bond won't be saved by gadgets this time.
  • Posts: 15,124
    Since62 wrote: »
    Interesting observations re FYEO. I recall well how the producers said and did bring the story back to earth, after MR left the planet. But -- they couldn't resist some nonsense ! The entire inclusion in the story of the girl young enough to be Bond's daughter -- nearly granddaughter -- was terrible. As with the young folks in the car in Germany pooling away from Bond after teasing him with an offered ride in their car, it served only to highlight the actor's age. Why on earth do that ?!!?

    Here's another controversial opinion: Bibi in FYEO is a great character and helps to establish a dark side to Kristatos: he's potentially a sexual predator.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Since62 wrote: »
    Interesting observations re FYEO. I recall well how the producers said and did bring the story back to earth, after MR left the planet. But -- they couldn't resist some nonsense ! The entire inclusion in the story of the girl young enough to be Bond's daughter -- nearly granddaughter -- was terrible. As with the young folks in the car in Germany pooling away from Bond after teasing him with an offered ride in their car, it served only to highlight the actor's age. Why on earth do that ?!!?

    Here's another controversial opinion: Bibi in FYEO is a great character and helps to establish a dark side to Kristatos: he's potentially a sexual predator.

    +1 I love Bibi!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Since62 wrote: »
    Just realized that the pigeons startling Bond in the PTS for TLD might have been a call back to a somewhat similar moment for Bond climbing the tower of stone in FYEO.

    Yes, John Glen used his pigeon motif a lot. Every Glen Bond film has that type of animal jump scare moment when you think about it though it's a cat instead of a pigeon in AVTAK. Pigeons feature I FYEO, OP, TLD and LTK. You could say that AVTAK is a cat among the pigeons. ;)

    Along with he liked to get Tim Dalton to tap fuel gauges :D
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Since62 wrote: »
    Interesting observations re FYEO. I recall well how the producers said and did bring the story back to earth, after MR left the planet. But -- they couldn't resist some nonsense ! The entire inclusion in the story of the girl young enough to be Bond's daughter -- nearly granddaughter -- was terrible. As with the young folks in the car in Germany pooling away from Bond after teasing him with an offered ride in their car, it served only to highlight the actor's age. Why on earth do that ?!!?

    Here's another controversial opinion: Bibi in FYEO is a great character and helps to establish a dark side to Kristatos: he's potentially a sexual predator.

    +1 I love Bibi!

    Bibi doesn't bother me in the slightest. She's the comic relief (for Bond) in a rather dark story.

    It's also the series starting to acknowledge Moore's age, and besides that, he is rather gentlemanly and turns her down.

    Now the iceberg submarine woman in AVTAK...*that* scene is creepy. (At least Pola and Stacey seem a bit more age-appropriate.)

    Imagine, instead, if it had been Octopussy waiting in that submarine. It wouldn't have made a lot of sense, but it wouldn't have been creepy, either.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    mtm wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Since62 wrote: »
    Just realized that the pigeons startling Bond in the PTS for TLD might have been a call back to a somewhat similar moment for Bond climbing the tower of stone in FYEO.

    Yes, John Glen used his pigeon motif a lot. Every Glen Bond film has that type of animal jump scare moment when you think about it though it's a cat instead of a pigeon in AVTAK. Pigeons feature I FYEO, OP, TLD and LTK. You could say that AVTAK is a cat among the pigeons. ;)

    Along with he liked to get Tim Dalton to tap fuel gauges :D

    Ha! Good one! I'll have to watch our for how often he dies that now! I suppose that tap could release another 50p of fuel and that could make all the difference! ;)
  • Posts: 2,165
    echo wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Since62 wrote: »
    Interesting observations re FYEO. I recall well how the producers said and did bring the story back to earth, after MR left the planet. But -- they couldn't resist some nonsense ! The entire inclusion in the story of the girl young enough to be Bond's daughter -- nearly granddaughter -- was terrible. As with the young folks in the car in Germany pooling away from Bond after teasing him with an offered ride in their car, it served only to highlight the actor's age. Why on earth do that ?!!?

    Here's another controversial opinion: Bibi in FYEO is a great character and helps to establish a dark side to Kristatos: he's potentially a sexual predator.

    +1 I love Bibi!

    Bibi doesn't bother me in the slightest. She's the comic relief (for Bond) in a rather dark story.

    It's also the series starting to acknowledge Moore's age, and besides that, he is rather gentlemanly and turns her down.

    Now the iceberg submarine woman in AVTAK...*that* scene is creepy. (At least Pola and Stacey seem a bit more age-appropriate.)

    Imagine, instead, if it had been Octopussy waiting in that submarine. It wouldn't have made a lot of sense, but it wouldn't have been creepy, either.

    5 days to Alaska...

    That sub would be absolutely minging after that long. I hope there’s a toilet on board, and more food than just vodka and caviar.
  • I find the FYEO tone thing surprising. The movie is bookended with silliness, but nothing in the middle is very silly.

    All the movies have darker and lighter moments, but none of them are really all that dark. Bibi isn't exactly Jar Jar Binks, and the car chase is another statement of intent: Bond won't be saved by gadgets this time.

    I dunno, stuff like a hockey rink full of goons disguised as hockey players I would definitely count as silly. And Bibi basically solely existing as comic relief via her constant fawning over Bond is a low-brow trope I found pretty grating, and adding her to many of the villain’s scenes really diminished an antagonist who was already lacking in menace. I like FYEO quite a bit, mind, but I find it pretty uneven.
  • Posts: 15,124
    Bibi is not only comic relief: she reveals quite a sinister side to Kristatos.
  • edited August 2021 Posts: 532
    I dunno, that might have been the intent but it was pretty undercooked to me.
  • Posts: 15,124
    I dunno, that might have been the intent but it was pretty undercooked to me.

    It was not developed but it's definitely there.
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