Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Posts: 1,394
    There was no “ Battle/race “ between OP and NSNA in 1983.

    I think that’s something the media played up as it made great headlines.And Rog did not “ see off “ Sean and his film that year.This would only have been true had both movies opened on the same date.OP opened in summer.NSNA opened at Christmas.Both movies were very successful and made a lot of money.

    Sean and Rog probably had a good laugh about it together over the years whenever they ran into each other.
  • Posts: 16,169
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    There was no “ Battle/race “ between OP and NSNA in 1983.

    I think that’s something the media played up as it made great headlines.And Rog did not “ see off “ Sean and his film that year.This would only have been true had both movies opened on the same date.OP opened in summer.NSNA opened at Christmas.Both movies were very successful and made a lot of money.

    Sean and Rog probably had a good laugh about it together over the years whenever they ran into each other.

    Exactly!
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737
    Great comment, @FatherValentine. And Moore himself is actually unusually dour in his scenes with Walken, at least after they're known to each other as enemies. I'm not sure how wildly different Tim could/would have played those moments.

    Thanks.

    Yes, he does play it that way, as well as showing some genuine hate towards him in the City Hall scenes, as @mtm points out.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,415
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    There was no “ Battle/race “ between OP and NSNA in 1983.

    I think that’s something the media played up as it made great headlines.And Rog did not “ see off “ Sean and his film that year.This would only have been true had both movies opened on the same date.OP opened in summer.NSNA opened at Christmas.Both movies were very successful and made a lot of money.

    Well, Octopussy made more money. And cost less :)
  • Posts: 7,507
    mtm wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    There was no “ Battle/race “ between OP and NSNA in 1983.

    I think that’s something the media played up as it made great headlines.And Rog did not “ see off “ Sean and his film that year.This would only have been true had both movies opened on the same date.OP opened in summer.NSNA opened at Christmas.Both movies were very successful and made a lot of money.

    Well, Octopussy made more money. And cost less :)

    And is a significantly better film.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    There was no “ Battle/race “ between OP and NSNA in 1983.

    I think that’s something the media played up as it made great headlines.And Rog did not “ see off “ Sean and his film that year.This would only have been true had both movies opened on the same date.OP opened in summer.NSNA opened at Christmas.Both movies were very successful and made a lot of money.

    Sean and Rog probably had a good laugh about it together over the years whenever they ran into each other.

    NSNA opened in October.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    mtm wrote: »
    Rocketeer does show that Dalton could have pulled off a more suave and charming Bond if he really wanted, but that’s not what he was going for and I respect that he worked to bring as much Fleming to the screen to the best of his ability. It was his way to differentiate himself from Connery and Moore, and I think he was very successful, regardless of how audiences couldn’t appreciate it.

    It's not really about the exact character he plays in Rocketeer: it's more that he has actual presence and owns the screen in that role, which he doesn't do in Bond. It's very odd.

    It's something Craig managed to do which Dalton didn't. I think it also helps that Craig saw what worked and was expected of Bond and added that to the more serious Fleming Bond.

    That's because Dalton was playing up the swagger in THE ROCKETEER, whereas with Bond he was intentionally downplaying it because that's not really a part of Fleming's Bond. That's really more of a cinematic Bond trope that Connery started and Moore continued. It does make me wonder that if Dalton had got his third film that he would have conceded to playing up that swagger for his Bond given how audiences were not embracing his strict Fleming approach.

    And you're right about Craig, though he went closer to Fleming's moroseness, he retained the cinematic swagger that people strongly associate with Bond so he was more embraced as a result.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    mtm wrote: »
    Rocketeer does show that Dalton could have pulled off a more suave and charming Bond if he really wanted, but that’s not what he was going for and I respect that he worked to bring as much Fleming to the screen to the best of his ability. It was his way to differentiate himself from Connery and Moore, and I think he was very successful, regardless of how audiences couldn’t appreciate it.

    It's not really about the exact character he plays in Rocketeer: it's more that he has actual presence and owns the screen in that role, which he doesn't do in Bond. It's very odd.

    It's something Craig managed to do which Dalton didn't. I think it also helps that Craig saw what worked and was expected of Bond and added that to the more serious Fleming Bond.

    That's because Dalton was playing up the swagger in THE ROCKETEER, whereas with Bond he was intentionally downplaying it because that's not really a part of Fleming's Bond. That's really more of a cinematic Bond trope that Connery started and Moore continued. It does make me wonder that if Dalton had got his third film that he would have conceded to playing up that swagger for his Bond given how audiences were not embracing his strict Fleming approach.

    And you're right about Craig, though he went closer to Fleming's moroseness, he retained the cinematic swagger that people strongly associate with Bond so he was more embraced as a result.

    There's a hint of that kind of swagger in the Lark cigarettes advert:

    I love the way Tim played Bond, but this would have been cool to see in movie three...
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited August 2021 Posts: 8,188
    That's it right there. The difference is that Dalton is playing a character that RELISHES the thrill of the moment, whereas he played Bond a way that largely didn't seem to enjoy being in the action, hence why he's accused of taking the role "too seriously".

    The only time that relishing creeps up in the films is in bits like when Bond does his semi stunt in LTK, he has a smirk on his face after dodging a stinger missile and is about to smash the goons' vehicle.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    That's it right there. The difference is that Dalton is playing a character that RELISHES the thrill of the moment, whereas he played Bond a way that largely didn't seem to enjoy being in the action, hence why he's accused of taking the role "too seriously".

    The only time that relishing creeps up in the films is in bits like when Bond does his semi stunt in LTK, he has a smirk on his face after dodging a stinger missile and is about to smash the goons' vehicle.

    God, yeah. I think one of his most Fleming moments is when he grins to himself while driving the tanker wreaking havoc on Sanchez. He's great.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Another bit I like is when he takes off with Sanchez's money and has a grin on his face like he hit the jackpot.

    Contrast that with how he behaved during the Aston Martin chase in TLD, where he says complete with a straight face "I have a few optional extras in store" as he's about to blow up a road block. There's not enough of him enjoying the toys he has at his disposal there.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited August 2021 Posts: 16,415
    mtm wrote: »
    Rocketeer does show that Dalton could have pulled off a more suave and charming Bond if he really wanted, but that’s not what he was going for and I respect that he worked to bring as much Fleming to the screen to the best of his ability. It was his way to differentiate himself from Connery and Moore, and I think he was very successful, regardless of how audiences couldn’t appreciate it.

    It's not really about the exact character he plays in Rocketeer: it's more that he has actual presence and owns the screen in that role, which he doesn't do in Bond. It's very odd.

    It's something Craig managed to do which Dalton didn't. I think it also helps that Craig saw what worked and was expected of Bond and added that to the more serious Fleming Bond.

    That's because Dalton was playing up the swagger in THE ROCKETEER, whereas with Bond he was intentionally downplaying it because that's not really a part of Fleming's Bond. That's really more of a cinematic Bond trope that Connery started and Moore continued. It does make me wonder that if Dalton had got his third film that he would have conceded to playing up that swagger for his Bond given how audiences were not embracing his strict Fleming approach.

    And you're right about Craig, though he went closer to Fleming's moroseness, he retained the cinematic swagger that people strongly associate with Bond so he was more embraced as a result.

    Yes, he doesn't have that self-confidence. And if Bond doesn't seem to believe in himself -which I would argue is there in Fleming's Bond: he very much believes in all of his little opinions on the world and has an unshakable faith in his little rituals and habits- then he doesn't really feel like James Bond. Just look at Fleming himself (who Bond was obviously a bit of an extension or dream version of): he comes across as a guy who was pretty self-assured.
    The films took that and adapted it into swagger, and people loved it. It's a massive part of the appeal of Bond. If Dalton had had a character-defining moment like the parking valet scene in Casino Royale he might have made it work.

    A recent phrase I've seen doing the rounds on social media is to describe a person as having 'Big Dick Energy'. I think it's fairly self-explanatory :D And I think all of the Bonds except Dalton have that, book Bond too, and people respond to that.

    It's interesting that one of the treatments for Dalton's third was pretty much a comedy version. I don't think it's likely it ever would have developed that way though: Bond is actually repeatedly thinking he's too old and messing up like he's Murtaugh, which wouldn't have flown at all I think.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    Contrast that with how he behaved during the Aston Martin chase in TLD, where he says complete with a straight face "I have a few optional extras in store" as he's about to blow up a road block. There's not enough of him enjoying the toys he has at his disposal there.

    Well, because I'm a total Daltonite hack, I'll totally defend his performance in the gadget car/cello case scenes. He throws those lines away for sure, and I think it was a good choice. Had Pierce taken the role, he'd have sunk his teeth into them like they were made of Teri Hatcher, and it would have been funny, and then on the cello, he'd do something cheeky like adjust his tie.

    But then when you get to the Pushkin confrontation, it would be a bit jarring. Pierce was never able to manage tone shifts very well, it was really his only flaw as far as I'm concerned. With Tim, the guy in the cello case is definitely the guy who confronts the KGB boss, and it works. Downplaying some of the comic elements was the way to go.

    mtm wrote: »

    Yes, he doesn't have that self-confidence. And if Bond doesn't seem to believe in himself -which I would argue is there in Fleming's Bond: he very much believes in all of his little opinions on the world and has an unshakable faith in his little rituals and habits- then he doesn't really feel like James Bond. Just look at Fleming himself (who Bond was obviously a bit of an extension or dream version of): he comes across as a guy who was pretty self-assured.

    Fleming did give Bond the dullest name he could think of though, and he's not picking up women left and right or anything, and seems to value his anonymity. I don't sense any big dick swagger from Fleming's Bond, but obviously part of it is what you read into it. He does have the thing where he believes in his little opinions and habits, but Dalton's Bond, in being more of a human being, is the only one of the bunch that I can even imagine has opinions or habits. We know he listens to jazz and can appreciate Kara's music. He has opinions on coffee and alcohol that come out as something other than showing off in front of others.

    I love the film Bond (Roger is my second favorite, and it's close), so I like the swagger too, but Dalton wasn't trying that at all, and didn't fall short because Joe Johnston wasn't around to help him.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited August 2021 Posts: 16,415
    Contrast that with how he behaved during the Aston Martin chase in TLD, where he says complete with a straight face "I have a few optional extras in store" as he's about to blow up a road block. There's not enough of him enjoying the toys he has at his disposal there.

    Well, because I'm a total Daltonite hack, I'll totally defend his performance in the gadget car/cello case scenes. He throws those lines away for sure, and I think it was a good choice. Had Pierce taken the role, he'd have sunk his teeth into them like they were made of Teri Hatcher, and it would have been funny, and then on the cello, he'd do something cheeky like adjust his tie.

    I've not thought of that before. Oh gosh, that might have actually been better. The cello case bit has always fallen a bit flat for me: it's not really funny or particularly a big Bond-ish moment, which is what I feel like they were hoping for. The music maybe doesn't entirely help: it just kind of plods along in the same way it was doing moments before.
    Maybe it's because they're sat down and nothing much actually happens. In terms of inventiveness and 007 fun, I think him picking up the skidoo ski and using it to surf in AVTAK works better for me! (funny how that similar idea reoccurs in two consecutive Bond films)
    But then when you get to the Pushkin confrontation, it would be a bit jarring. Pierce was never able to manage tone shifts very well, it was really his only flaw as far as I'm concerned. With Tim, the guy in the cello case is definitely the guy who confronts the KGB boss, and it works. Downplaying some of the comic elements was the way to go.

    I'm not totally seeing that: I think he'd do that just fine. If you watch The Fourth Protocol you'd be getting that guy as Bond, and although he's a bit slight and big-haired, it would have worked.
    I understand that you're saying having both tones would create an issue, but I don't quite see it.

    mtm wrote: »

    Yes, he doesn't have that self-confidence. And if Bond doesn't seem to believe in himself -which I would argue is there in Fleming's Bond: he very much believes in all of his little opinions on the world and has an unshakable faith in his little rituals and habits- then he doesn't really feel like James Bond. Just look at Fleming himself (who Bond was obviously a bit of an extension or dream version of): he comes across as a guy who was pretty self-assured.

    Fleming did give Bond the dullest name he could think of though, and he's not picking up women left and right or anything, and seems to value his anonymity.

    I don't really see how the name or anonymity is relevant to be honest (you'd have to be really confident to change your name just for that reason); and he kind of does pick up quite a few women.
    I don't sense any big dick swagger from Fleming's Bond, but obviously part of it is what you read into it. He does have the thing where he believes in his little opinions and habits, but Dalton's Bond, in being more of a human being, is the only one of the bunch that I can even imagine has opinions or habits. We know he listens to jazz and can appreciate Kara's music. He has opinions on coffee and alcohol that come out as something other than showing off in front of others.

    Yes, that's fair enough; I can see that. I would disagree that Fleming's Bond isn't self-assured and confident though: he very much believes in himself and his abilities and never doubts his own mind. He might be nervous about being killed once in a while, but that's not the same thing, and even the most cartoonish movie Bonds share that sort of moment.
    I love the film Bond (Roger is my second favorite, and it's close), so I like the swagger too, but Dalton wasn't trying that at all, and didn't fall short because Joe Johnston wasn't around to help him.

    For you maybe, but in the general audience's mind I think he probably did. He's not exactly remembered as the best Bond in the public consciousness.

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    Dalton's Bond was never flippant, so it made sense to deadpan the one-liners. Craig does it too in QoS and it works.

    It's interesting what different people see in Fleming. I don't see swagger--I see that as film Bond. I read Bond in the novels as full of doubts (and sometimes regrets) but always pressing on and completing the mission.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Nobody is saying Fleming Bond has zero self-assurance, he has some of that, but he’s also extremely contemplative which is why he gets himself drunk so much so to get his mind off of things that make him morose. I think saying he’s more determined than assured is a more accurate assessment. He pushes himself so hard that it’s amazing he hasn’t broke mentally.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited August 2021 Posts: 1,711
    mtm wrote: »

    I'm not totally seeing that: I think he'd do that just fine. If you watch The Fourth Protocol you'd be getting that guy as Bond, and although he's a bit slight and big-haired, it would have worked.
    I understand that you're saying having both tones would create an issue, but I don't quite see it.

    Obviously it's all personal taste, but to me it just depends how far you can get with Pierce's tone handling in TND or something. I have no concept of who his James Bond is meant to be, apart from someone who tries to wring every drop of humor/despair/whatever out ofindividual scenes. The way he flips from Paris Carver's death to giggling in his car just doesn't work for me, and I can picture him now doing a great job in both the car chase and the Pushkin confrontation, but not marrying the two into a single character.

    But if you don't think Tim did a good job in TLD, it's clear you wouldn't want him in AVTAK! :))

    mtm wrote: »
    For you maybe, but in the general audience's mind I think he probably did. He's not exactly remembered as the best Bond in the public consciousness.

    Like OHMSS!

    Also, I don't know where "I would disagree that Fleming's Bond isn't self-assured and confident though" comes from. I don't think anybody is saying anything like that. Fleming's Bond and Dalton's Bond are both very self-assured and confident. Charging at a drug lord with little in the way of a plan is rather bold.

    Or another wonderful moment along the lines of what @MakeshiftPython was talking about: the "oh s--t" moment when he has to remove his face mask in front of Dario, but he just stands there with a self-assured grin, ready to do whatever he has to do, knowing that it's all about to come to a head.
  • Posts: 1,630
    I think the cello case ride in TLD DID have a nicely delivered, funny line, when crossing the border: "Nothing to declare !" GREAT line ! Could it have been preceded with someone else crossing, and being asked if they had any goods to "declare", thus making the line more understandable to folks who've not been in such a situation ? Perhaps, but it would broken the pacing, unless interspersed in little pieces, quickly, and perhaps even used to heighten the tension since Bond and Kara would have been worried that if the vehicle in front did not finish and move on, they'd not cross the border as quickly, and even lose their sliding momentum. Oh, well. Still, a great line, and FUNNY but not d-u-m-b or buffonish. One moment I truly did NOT like in TLD is when Bond returns to Kara in their plush room, before he goes off. The moment occurs before he embraces her and regards her dearly. He stands there, with one foot turned inward. WTF ? He looked like an uncertain teenager. To this day I do not understand the actor's choice, the director letting it pass, etc. I'm not saying Bond must strut or overly show confidence, but that was awfully awkward. Am I nitpicking ? For me, at least, no, because it brought me to a halt, took me out of the film, and it struck me instantly, in the theater upon release, not a matter of reflection and carping later on.
  • Posts: 7,430
    echo wrote: »
    Dalton's Bond was never flippant, so it made sense to deadpan the one-liners. Craig does it too in QoS and it works.

    It's interesting what different people see in Fleming. I don't see swagger--I see that as film Bond. I read Bond in the novels as full of doubts (and sometimes regrets) but always pressing on and completing the mission.

    +1
    Well said!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited August 2021 Posts: 16,415
    mtm wrote: »

    I'm not totally seeing that: I think he'd do that just fine. If you watch The Fourth Protocol you'd be getting that guy as Bond, and although he's a bit slight and big-haired, it would have worked.
    I understand that you're saying having both tones would create an issue, but I don't quite see it.

    Obviously it's all personal taste, but to me it just depends how far you can get with Pierce's tone handling in TND or something. I have no concept of who his James Bond is meant to be, apart from someone who tries to wring every drop of humor/despair/whatever out ofindividual scenes. The way he flips from Paris Carver's death to giggling in his car just doesn't work for me, and I can picture him now doing a great job in both the car chase and the Pushkin confrontation, but not marrying the two into a single character.

    I see what you mean about the Paris thing: that is an issue with them trying to make his films a bit more emotional but really only paying the idea lip service, so the idea of Paris being 'the one that got too close' is suddenly shoehorned in and then dropped. I don't know if I'd blame Brosnan for that (although I think he pushed for more of that sort of thing) more than the scriptwriters being a bit haphazard. TLD didn't have any of that so I wouldn't have thought it would be much of an issue.
    Casino Royale is pretty much the first time they managed to write an intelligent script which actually married the emotional angle with the spy plot. I'd have liked to have seen Dalton with that script and director: I'm sure he'd have fared much better with that than what he was given.

    mtm wrote: »
    For you maybe, but in the general audience's mind I think he probably did. He's not exactly remembered as the best Bond in the public consciousness.

    Like OHMSS!

    Yes, and like Lazenby too.
    Also, I don't know where "I would disagree that Fleming's Bond isn't self-assured and confident though" comes from. I don't think anybody is saying anything like that.

    That's what we're talking about.
    Fleming's Bond and Dalton's Bond are both very self-assured and confident. Charging at a drug lord with little in the way of a plan is rather bold.

    The actions are there in the script, but the performance doesn't really convince. This is something I'm not the only one in this thread saying.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited August 2021 Posts: 1,711
    mtm wrote: »
    I see what you mean about the Paris thing: that is an issue with them trying to make his films a bit more emotional but really only paying the idea lip service, so the idea of Paris being 'the one that got too close' is suddenly shoehorned in and then dropped. I don't know if I'd blame Brosnan for that (although I think he pushed for more of that sort of thing) more than the scriptwriters being a bit haphazard. TLD didn't have any of that so I wouldn't have thought it would be much of an issue.

    Again, obviously all subjective, but I kind of do put it on Brosnan. He leans way into the tone of all his individual scenes and doesn't play them as an actual character. Brosnan probably didn't have to be quite so morose and corpse-sniffy, and probably didn't have to be quite so giggly in the car minutes later. Isolated, both of those scenes are fine, but they barely belong in the same movie. Or in his conversation with Dr Kaufmann, he's taking the situation a hell of a lot more seriously than his partner in the scene is.

    So I agree that TLD doesn't have the same kinds of tonal shifts, but a big part of that is Tim's performance. What I was trying to say is Pierce would have leaned so hard into every moment that tonal shifts would exist in his version. The snow bits would have been far more comical, and I wouldn't be surprised if he exceeded Tim's seriousness in the sniping scene, the Pushkin scene, or the scene where he's drugged. He'd have gone to town with all that. And then I expect they'd have kept the carpet stuff on top of it, because Pierce's visible delight would be too fun not to use. And for me, it would be a mess, like TND and TWINE kind of are, though obviously plenty of people love those films and don't notice or mind this kind of stuff, or at least not in Bond films!

    But my larger point with Tim at least is that there's no mystery as to why he has less swagger than in some of his non-Bond films. He chose to play it that way, which is clear from numerous choices he made. He was the only actor until Craig who didn't have an outsized real-world personality informing his take on it. It's not that Joe Johnston is a great actor's director compared to John Glen, or that Tim needed more direction from Glen than Roger did and didn't get it. And obviously that's just a question of taste whether someone likes it or not.
    mtm wrote: »
    The actions are there in the script, but the performance doesn't really convince. This is something I'm not the only one in this thread saying.

    It's the false dichotomy between "big dick swagger" and lack of confidence that's odd.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    Or in his conversation with Dr Kaufmann, he's taking the situation a hell of a lot more seriously than his partner in the scene is.

    This is actually the exact reason why that scene works so well, I feel. The contrast works magnificently.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited August 2021 Posts: 1,711
    Or in his conversation with Dr Kaufmann, he's taking the situation a hell of a lot more seriously than his partner in the scene is.

    This is actually the exact reason why that scene works so well, I feel. The contrast works magnificently.

    I definitely do think that one worked out better than many of the others, especially in isolation!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,415
    But my larger point with Tim at least is that there's no mystery as to why he has less swagger than in some of his non-Bond films. He chose to play it that way, which is clear from numerous choices he made. He was the only actor until Craig who didn't have an outsized real-world personality informing his take on it. It's not that Joe Johnston is a great actor's director compared to John Glen, or that Tim needed more direction from Glen than Roger did and didn't get it. And obviously that's just a question of taste whether someone likes it or not.

    I think to assume that the director isn't involved with how an actor is playing scenes is a mistake, though. The actor isn't the only one making choices.
    mtm wrote: »
    The actions are there in the script, but the performance doesn't really convince. This is something I'm not the only one in this thread saying.

    It's the false dichotomy between "big dick swagger" and lack of confidence that's odd.

    BDE is often described as confidence without cockiness. Bond in the books absolutely has that, Dalton in the films I would say does not personify that or give off that impression.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    The scenes with Saunders before and after the defection sequence at the beginning of TLD would qualify as BDE, I think. He's got a strong air of professionalism and confidence there. Though perhaps one could argue that his attitude towards Saunders would tip that into cocky territory (depends on where you see the line for that kind of thing), maybe.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,415
    It's easy to imagine Connery doing that scene where he meets Saunders in the concert.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    mtm wrote: »
    It's easy to imagine Connery doing that scene where he meets Saunders in the concert.

    It never crosses my mind when I'm watching it, admittedly. I love Dalton in that sequence - I think it might be a top three highlight from his two films. That, the balloon popping at the fair, and Pushkin's hotel room.
  • Posts: 7,430
    Revelator wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Dalton (if directed by Glen) would have been blasted off the screen by Walken in it and I can't see him doing anything but struggle with making an impression. Brosnan on the other hand, would have made a good fist of it

    I had the opposite reaction. Dalton would have probably had far more chemistry and shared intensity with Walken than Moore, who acts as if he was in a different film than most of the main cast. Brosnan could barely hold his own with Sean Bean in GE, so I don't think he'd have done wonders for AVTAK.

    I genuinely find that comment about Brosnan to be bizarre. Sean Bean is appalling in GE. That stupid posh accent...They should have just gotten him to do it in his normal voice.

    Just goes to show how we all respond to different things.

    Thank you! I'VE been saying that for ages about Bean! Really like him as an actor, loved the 'Sharpe' series, but he is terrible in GE, and its all down to that silly accent, like he was understudying Noel Coward! Why didnt Campbell take him aside and say " Sean, what's with the funny voice?"
    Regarding if AVTAK was Daltons debut, he would have been fantastic facing off against Walken, same as he was against Davi in LTK! Brossa would have been a disaster. Considering he had all of his films stolen by minor characters, its doubtless he could have held his own against an actor of the calibre of Chris Walken! And its likely they would have rewritten the script to suit Daltons more serious tone, and eliminated the more silly aspects of it! Just had another thought, how bad would it have been to see Brossa in bed with Grace Jones, ( if he tried munching on her shoulder, she would have slapped him silly!)
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    I think it's fair to say that AVTAK likely would have been rewritten to suit Brosnan's strengths in '87 the same way it would have had Dalton taken it on. It likely would have been more serious with Brosnan too in comparison with what we got.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Ironic thing is Brosnan would have had no shot in the role in 1984 because he was deep into Remington Steele, whereas by 1986 the show had basically run its course, and had NBC not made the decision to renew it after initially cancelling it, Brosnan would have been on TLD without a doubt.
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