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I think that’s something the media played up as it made great headlines.And Rog did not “ see off “ Sean and his film that year.This would only have been true had both movies opened on the same date.OP opened in summer.NSNA opened at Christmas.Both movies were very successful and made a lot of money.
Sean and Rog probably had a good laugh about it together over the years whenever they ran into each other.
Exactly!
Thanks.
Yes, he does play it that way, as well as showing some genuine hate towards him in the City Hall scenes, as @mtm points out.
Well, Octopussy made more money. And cost less :)
And is a significantly better film.
NSNA opened in October.
That's because Dalton was playing up the swagger in THE ROCKETEER, whereas with Bond he was intentionally downplaying it because that's not really a part of Fleming's Bond. That's really more of a cinematic Bond trope that Connery started and Moore continued. It does make me wonder that if Dalton had got his third film that he would have conceded to playing up that swagger for his Bond given how audiences were not embracing his strict Fleming approach.
And you're right about Craig, though he went closer to Fleming's moroseness, he retained the cinematic swagger that people strongly associate with Bond so he was more embraced as a result.
There's a hint of that kind of swagger in the Lark cigarettes advert:
I love the way Tim played Bond, but this would have been cool to see in movie three...
The only time that relishing creeps up in the films is in bits like when Bond does his semi stunt in LTK, he has a smirk on his face after dodging a stinger missile and is about to smash the goons' vehicle.
God, yeah. I think one of his most Fleming moments is when he grins to himself while driving the tanker wreaking havoc on Sanchez. He's great.
Contrast that with how he behaved during the Aston Martin chase in TLD, where he says complete with a straight face "I have a few optional extras in store" as he's about to blow up a road block. There's not enough of him enjoying the toys he has at his disposal there.
Yes, he doesn't have that self-confidence. And if Bond doesn't seem to believe in himself -which I would argue is there in Fleming's Bond: he very much believes in all of his little opinions on the world and has an unshakable faith in his little rituals and habits- then he doesn't really feel like James Bond. Just look at Fleming himself (who Bond was obviously a bit of an extension or dream version of): he comes across as a guy who was pretty self-assured.
The films took that and adapted it into swagger, and people loved it. It's a massive part of the appeal of Bond. If Dalton had had a character-defining moment like the parking valet scene in Casino Royale he might have made it work.
A recent phrase I've seen doing the rounds on social media is to describe a person as having 'Big Dick Energy'. I think it's fairly self-explanatory :D And I think all of the Bonds except Dalton have that, book Bond too, and people respond to that.
It's interesting that one of the treatments for Dalton's third was pretty much a comedy version. I don't think it's likely it ever would have developed that way though: Bond is actually repeatedly thinking he's too old and messing up like he's Murtaugh, which wouldn't have flown at all I think.
Well, because I'm a total Daltonite hack, I'll totally defend his performance in the gadget car/cello case scenes. He throws those lines away for sure, and I think it was a good choice. Had Pierce taken the role, he'd have sunk his teeth into them like they were made of Teri Hatcher, and it would have been funny, and then on the cello, he'd do something cheeky like adjust his tie.
But then when you get to the Pushkin confrontation, it would be a bit jarring. Pierce was never able to manage tone shifts very well, it was really his only flaw as far as I'm concerned. With Tim, the guy in the cello case is definitely the guy who confronts the KGB boss, and it works. Downplaying some of the comic elements was the way to go.
Fleming did give Bond the dullest name he could think of though, and he's not picking up women left and right or anything, and seems to value his anonymity. I don't sense any big dick swagger from Fleming's Bond, but obviously part of it is what you read into it. He does have the thing where he believes in his little opinions and habits, but Dalton's Bond, in being more of a human being, is the only one of the bunch that I can even imagine has opinions or habits. We know he listens to jazz and can appreciate Kara's music. He has opinions on coffee and alcohol that come out as something other than showing off in front of others.
I love the film Bond (Roger is my second favorite, and it's close), so I like the swagger too, but Dalton wasn't trying that at all, and didn't fall short because Joe Johnston wasn't around to help him.
I've not thought of that before. Oh gosh, that might have actually been better. The cello case bit has always fallen a bit flat for me: it's not really funny or particularly a big Bond-ish moment, which is what I feel like they were hoping for. The music maybe doesn't entirely help: it just kind of plods along in the same way it was doing moments before.
Maybe it's because they're sat down and nothing much actually happens. In terms of inventiveness and 007 fun, I think him picking up the skidoo ski and using it to surf in AVTAK works better for me! (funny how that similar idea reoccurs in two consecutive Bond films)
I'm not totally seeing that: I think he'd do that just fine. If you watch The Fourth Protocol you'd be getting that guy as Bond, and although he's a bit slight and big-haired, it would have worked.
I understand that you're saying having both tones would create an issue, but I don't quite see it.
I don't really see how the name or anonymity is relevant to be honest (you'd have to be really confident to change your name just for that reason); and he kind of does pick up quite a few women.
Yes, that's fair enough; I can see that. I would disagree that Fleming's Bond isn't self-assured and confident though: he very much believes in himself and his abilities and never doubts his own mind. He might be nervous about being killed once in a while, but that's not the same thing, and even the most cartoonish movie Bonds share that sort of moment.
For you maybe, but in the general audience's mind I think he probably did. He's not exactly remembered as the best Bond in the public consciousness.
It's interesting what different people see in Fleming. I don't see swagger--I see that as film Bond. I read Bond in the novels as full of doubts (and sometimes regrets) but always pressing on and completing the mission.
Obviously it's all personal taste, but to me it just depends how far you can get with Pierce's tone handling in TND or something. I have no concept of who his James Bond is meant to be, apart from someone who tries to wring every drop of humor/despair/whatever out ofindividual scenes. The way he flips from Paris Carver's death to giggling in his car just doesn't work for me, and I can picture him now doing a great job in both the car chase and the Pushkin confrontation, but not marrying the two into a single character.
But if you don't think Tim did a good job in TLD, it's clear you wouldn't want him in AVTAK! :))
Like OHMSS!
Also, I don't know where "I would disagree that Fleming's Bond isn't self-assured and confident though" comes from. I don't think anybody is saying anything like that. Fleming's Bond and Dalton's Bond are both very self-assured and confident. Charging at a drug lord with little in the way of a plan is rather bold.
Or another wonderful moment along the lines of what @MakeshiftPython was talking about: the "oh s--t" moment when he has to remove his face mask in front of Dario, but he just stands there with a self-assured grin, ready to do whatever he has to do, knowing that it's all about to come to a head.
+1
Well said!
I see what you mean about the Paris thing: that is an issue with them trying to make his films a bit more emotional but really only paying the idea lip service, so the idea of Paris being 'the one that got too close' is suddenly shoehorned in and then dropped. I don't know if I'd blame Brosnan for that (although I think he pushed for more of that sort of thing) more than the scriptwriters being a bit haphazard. TLD didn't have any of that so I wouldn't have thought it would be much of an issue.
Casino Royale is pretty much the first time they managed to write an intelligent script which actually married the emotional angle with the spy plot. I'd have liked to have seen Dalton with that script and director: I'm sure he'd have fared much better with that than what he was given.
Yes, and like Lazenby too.
That's what we're talking about.
The actions are there in the script, but the performance doesn't really convince. This is something I'm not the only one in this thread saying.
Again, obviously all subjective, but I kind of do put it on Brosnan. He leans way into the tone of all his individual scenes and doesn't play them as an actual character. Brosnan probably didn't have to be quite so morose and corpse-sniffy, and probably didn't have to be quite so giggly in the car minutes later. Isolated, both of those scenes are fine, but they barely belong in the same movie. Or in his conversation with Dr Kaufmann, he's taking the situation a hell of a lot more seriously than his partner in the scene is.
So I agree that TLD doesn't have the same kinds of tonal shifts, but a big part of that is Tim's performance. What I was trying to say is Pierce would have leaned so hard into every moment that tonal shifts would exist in his version. The snow bits would have been far more comical, and I wouldn't be surprised if he exceeded Tim's seriousness in the sniping scene, the Pushkin scene, or the scene where he's drugged. He'd have gone to town with all that. And then I expect they'd have kept the carpet stuff on top of it, because Pierce's visible delight would be too fun not to use. And for me, it would be a mess, like TND and TWINE kind of are, though obviously plenty of people love those films and don't notice or mind this kind of stuff, or at least not in Bond films!
But my larger point with Tim at least is that there's no mystery as to why he has less swagger than in some of his non-Bond films. He chose to play it that way, which is clear from numerous choices he made. He was the only actor until Craig who didn't have an outsized real-world personality informing his take on it. It's not that Joe Johnston is a great actor's director compared to John Glen, or that Tim needed more direction from Glen than Roger did and didn't get it. And obviously that's just a question of taste whether someone likes it or not.
It's the false dichotomy between "big dick swagger" and lack of confidence that's odd.
This is actually the exact reason why that scene works so well, I feel. The contrast works magnificently.
I definitely do think that one worked out better than many of the others, especially in isolation!
I think to assume that the director isn't involved with how an actor is playing scenes is a mistake, though. The actor isn't the only one making choices.
BDE is often described as confidence without cockiness. Bond in the books absolutely has that, Dalton in the films I would say does not personify that or give off that impression.
It never crosses my mind when I'm watching it, admittedly. I love Dalton in that sequence - I think it might be a top three highlight from his two films. That, the balloon popping at the fair, and Pushkin's hotel room.
Thank you! I'VE been saying that for ages about Bean! Really like him as an actor, loved the 'Sharpe' series, but he is terrible in GE, and its all down to that silly accent, like he was understudying Noel Coward! Why didnt Campbell take him aside and say " Sean, what's with the funny voice?"
Regarding if AVTAK was Daltons debut, he would have been fantastic facing off against Walken, same as he was against Davi in LTK! Brossa would have been a disaster. Considering he had all of his films stolen by minor characters, its doubtless he could have held his own against an actor of the calibre of Chris Walken! And its likely they would have rewritten the script to suit Daltons more serious tone, and eliminated the more silly aspects of it! Just had another thought, how bad would it have been to see Brossa in bed with Grace Jones, ( if he tried munching on her shoulder, she would have slapped him silly!)