Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    I'm also a fan of the SP title credits. I love how Kleinman swings for the fences when it comes to symbolism ever since GE. I'll even take it to a more controversial note:

    I think Kleinman is overtaking Binder as the best title artist. That's not a knock on Binder's best work, because his best IS hard to top. However, at some point in the 80s he just got lazy, settling down for cliched imagery that had very little to do with the actual plot. For example, there's absolutely no mistaking which titles were for which film when it came to TB, YOLT, OHMSS, DAF, LALD, TMWTGG, TSWLM, and MR. They carry all the thematic elements that those films were known for. FYEO is an oddity, because while it doesn't feature plot elements from the film it does feature Sheena Easton performing, and that's kind of a bold break from the usual formula. OP has a laser octopus and nearly nude circus performer, but those are fleeting rather than prevalent. AVTAK has skis, which is odd since that's only an element from the pre-titles. He seemed to be more interested in playing with his new black light toy. TLD, I guess vehicle headlights were supposed to represent "living daylights"? Why is someone shooting a pistol into the water? LTK has camera film, and casino imagery (would have worked for CR had that been made during Binder's run). Nothing to do with revenge or licence being revoked.

    I think TLD has a pretty bad sequence, but in fairness, the song lyric does mention headlights fading at that point. Still pretty "bloody literal-minded", as M would put it. :))
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 2021 Posts: 16,312
    The headlamp bit is a bit weak and based on the lyric, yes, but it's just someone turning a light off, which isn't a great image. It does appear to be the actual Aston V8 though, which makes you wonder why he didn't use it a bit more- none of the titles have featured the cars (just the numberplate gag in Goldfinger I think) and some sexily-lit studio shots of bodywork might've been something different. Generally he hasn't really thought of a theme or anything to say with the TLD titles and they're possibly the most generic of the lot- a lady in a big martini glass: sigh, okay Maurice.

    The LTK titles were a real low, I think. The part where he's laid out two gambling chips onto a casino table to spell out '007' is actually a bit embarrassing, and you can really tell that's something he thought of on the day of shooting.
  • Posts: 2,157
    mtm wrote: »
    The headlamp bit is a bit weak and based on the lyric, yes, but it's just someone turning a light off, which isn't a great image. It does appear to be the actual Aston V8 though, which makes you wonder why he didn't use it a bit more- none of the titles have featured the cars (just the numberplate gag in Goldfinger I think) and some sexily-lit studio shots of bodywork might've been something different. Generally he hasn't really thought of a theme or anything to say with the TLD titles and they're possibly the most generic of the lot- a lady in a big martini glass: sigh, okay Maurice.

    The LTK titles were a real low, I think. The part where he's laid out two gambling chips onto a casino table to spell out '007' is actually a bit embarrassing, and you can really tell that's something he thought of on the day of shooting.

    Not a fan of all the Olympus camera product placement in the titles for LTK either.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,104
    Well I must be one of the few that actually loves the 80’s title sequences. Lasers, black lights, very 80’s looking ladies, I love all that!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,312
    I do quite enjoy AVTAK: I think there's lots going on there and it all looks good.
  • Posts: 7,401
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Well I must be one of the few that actually loves the 80’s title sequences. Lasers, black lights, very 80’s looking ladies, I love all that!

    Agreed. I love Kleinmans work but his last two titles sequences are overcooked imo!
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    I like the SP title sequence well enough EXCEPT the "A million shards of glass" moment where they flash back to Silva, Vesper, Le Chiffre and M. I've grown to accept the plots referencing past movies, but half of characters chosen feel random to me (why remind us of Le Chiffre, but not Mr. White who actually factors into the film?). For the record I don't like the callbacks in OHMSS either.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,312
    Minion wrote: »
    I like the SP title sequence well enough EXCEPT the "A million shards of glass" moment where they flash back to Silva, Vesper, Le Chiffre and M. I've grown to accept the plots referencing past movies, but half of characters chosen feel random to me (why remind us of Le Chiffre, but not Mr. White who actually factors into the film?). For the record I don't like the callbacks in OHMSS either.

    Yeah I'm the same, not too keen on the callbacks. I think OHMSS's titles are a bit naff to be honest, I've never liked them. I find the time theme to be a bit obvious.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    Conceptually I like the visuals of OHMSS, but it looks very slapped together at the last second to me. Things are off-center, objects not symmetrical, and the female silhouettes have all kinds of issues. Why do some of them have super pointy feet?
  • Yeah as much as I love OHMSS, the title visuals do not work for me. I feel like more than a of Binder’s titles have confusingly off-center images that make them feel a bit rushed. He’s certainly done some great work for the franchise, but I’m also of the opinion that Kleinman is superior.
  • Posts: 5,983
    Not to mention the appearance of Harold Lloyd. WTF was that ?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,312
    Gerard wrote: »
    Not to mention the appearance of Harold Lloyd. WTF was that ?

    Yeah the clock thing doesn't work for me: it just doesn't feel like Bond imagery.

    Also it's kind of wrong in meaning: Bond may race against time, but he's not trapped by it, which is what that seems to say.

    The bit where they all hit the coat of arms pose is good though, that's nice.
  • Posts: 15,098
    FoxRox wrote: »
    A big one I thought of:

    SP’s title sequence is one of my favorites in the whole series.

    I enjoy pretty much all the title sequences of the Craig era, which are maybe the best of the series (except QOS, not bad per se but nothing special compared to the others). They are like movies into themselves.
  • Posts: 16,147
    I love the OHMSS title sequence (and especially the accompanying theme song).
    I think it's one of Binder's masterpieces.
  • Posts: 3,274
    MR is one of my favourite Bond movies.
    (ducking for cover).
  • Posts: 15,098
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I love the OHMSS title sequence (and especially the accompanying theme song).
    I think it's one of Binder's masterpieces.

    Surely that's not controversial. I hope not anyway.
  • Posts: 16,147
    Ludovico wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I love the OHMSS title sequence (and especially the accompanying theme song).
    I think it's one of Binder's masterpieces.

    Surely that's not controversial. I hope not anyway.

    This one is...............
    I love the NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN title sequence. Bold choice to have a somewhat AM easy listening theme tune played over an action scene while the titles anonymously appear.
  • edited September 2021 Posts: 631
    mtm wrote: »
    The bit where they all hit the coat of arms pose is good though, that's nice.

    I love that image. It’s the royal coat of arms, but with naked women! It’s cheeky and yet genuinely patriotic at the same time. An outstandingly good idea, and it fits the film’s title really well.

  • Zekidk wrote: »
    MR is one of my favourite Bond movies.
    (ducking for cover).

    Mine too!

    Personally (and this is an opinion I have stated many times before so feel free to ignore) I feel that MR is the last authentic James Bond film ever made, and that everything from FYEO onwards has comprised only reboots and fan fiction.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,312
    Zekidk wrote: »
    MR is one of my favourite Bond movies.
    (ducking for cover).

    Mine too!

    Personally (and this is an opinion I have stated many times before so feel free to ignore) I feel that MR is the last authentic James Bond film ever made, and that everything from FYEO onwards has comprised only reboots and fan fiction.

    I don't disagree, but curious to hear your thinking on that. Is it because it's the last film of the 60s directors/Ken Adam/Shirley Bassey/Bernard Lee?
  • edited September 2021 Posts: 3,274
    I like the scope of the Gilbert Bond movies. MR has plenty of great action setpieces, many memorable one-liners and quotes, massive Ken Adam sets and has Barry at his best.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,312
    Zekidk wrote: »
    I like the scope of the Gilbert Bond movies. MR has plenty of great action setpieces, many memorable one-liners and quotes, massive Ken Adam sets and has Barry at his best.

    Yeah, Gilbert was terrific. I went to see a screening of Spy Who Loved Me in Leicester Square with Mr Gilbert in attendance- that's pretty good.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,592
    Zekidk wrote: »
    MR is one of my favourite Bond movies.
    (ducking for cover).

    Mine too!

    Personally (and this is an opinion I have stated many times before so feel free to ignore) I feel that MR is the last authentic James Bond film ever made, and that everything from FYEO onwards has comprised only reboots and fan fiction.

    Moonraker is fun. If you accept it for what it is, it’s a great movie to watch with your friends. Especially with open commentary. I greatly enjoy Jaws.

    Here’s a controversial opinion from me: the worst piece of acting in a James Bond movie comes from ThunderBall. When Bond goes to investigate the health farm at night, the way Patricia asks him: “James. James, where are you going?” It sounds WAY too overdramatic. It’s the way she says it that makes me cringe.
  • mtm wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    I like the scope of the Gilbert Bond movies. MR has plenty of great action setpieces, many memorable one-liners and quotes, massive Ken Adam sets and has Barry at his best.

    Yeah, Gilbert was terrific. I went to see a screening of Spy Who Loved Me in Leicester Square with Mr Gilbert in attendance- that's pretty good.

    Respect!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 2021 Posts: 16,312
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    [Here’s a controversial opinion from me: the worst piece of acting in a James Bond movie comes from ThunderBall. When Bond goes to investigate the health farm at night, the way Patricia asks him: “James. James, where are you going?” It sounds WAY too overdramatic. It’s the way she says it that makes me cringe.

    Cor there's a few candidates for that one. The Stealth Boat Captain in TND is always one of my top favourites, he's rubbish!
  • mtm wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    MR is one of my favourite Bond movies.
    (ducking for cover).

    Mine too!

    Personally (and this is an opinion I have stated many times before so feel free to ignore) I feel that MR is the last authentic James Bond film ever made, and that everything from FYEO onwards has comprised only reboots and fan fiction.

    I don't disagree, but curious to hear your thinking on that. Is it because it's the last film of the 60s directors/Ken Adam/Shirley Bassey/Bernard Lee?

    All of those and more. The aesthetic seems to change too, as if the film stock changes. Most importantly, and very personally, MR was the last one I saw as a child (or young teenager). By FYEO I was 14/15 and things just seemed different.

    IMO the real movie James Bond first appeared in a casino in 1962 and lived through numerous adventures over the next seventeen years until in 1979 he finally left the planet and went into space. An ascension, in a way.

    FYEO was a reboot, although it went unrecognised at the time (did the term even exist, in a film way?).

    These views are very personal to me and I do understand why most people disagree.
  • Posts: 250
    Zekidk wrote: »
    MR is one of my favourite Bond movies.
    (ducking for cover).

    It's a wonderfully crafted film and while it doesn't all work it remains the apex of Epic Bond.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,171
    mtm wrote: »
    Gerard wrote: »
    Not to mention the appearance of Harold Lloyd. WTF was that ?

    Yeah the clock thing doesn't work for me: it just doesn't feel like Bond imagery.

    Also it's kind of wrong in meaning: Bond may race against time, but he's not trapped by it, which is what that seems to say.

    The bit where they all hit the coat of arms pose is good though, that's nice.

    The clock is more of a reference to the passage of time, which is why we see clips of previous films going down in an hourglass. It’s just another way of trying to connect Lazenby with the previous films because the filmmakers really wanted to hammer the fact that Connery and Lazenby are one and the same and that OHMSS is the culmination of everything that lead up to it.

    Of course, somebody didn’t give Binder the memo that the film was virtually ignoring YOLT (it’s the only film not to get a callback).
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 2021 Posts: 16,312
    mtm wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    MR is one of my favourite Bond movies.
    (ducking for cover).

    Mine too!

    Personally (and this is an opinion I have stated many times before so feel free to ignore) I feel that MR is the last authentic James Bond film ever made, and that everything from FYEO onwards has comprised only reboots and fan fiction.

    I don't disagree, but curious to hear your thinking on that. Is it because it's the last film of the 60s directors/Ken Adam/Shirley Bassey/Bernard Lee?

    All of those and more. The aesthetic seems to change too, as if the film stock changes. Most importantly, and very personally, MR was the last one I saw as a child (or young teenager). By FYEO I was 14/15 and things just seemed different.

    IMO the real movie James Bond first appeared in a casino in 1962 and lived through numerous adventures over the next seventeen years until in 1979 he finally left the planet and went into space. An ascension, in a way.

    FYEO was a reboot, although it went unrecognised at the time (did the term even exist, in a film way?).

    These views are very personal to me and I do understand why most people disagree.

    I think it's definitely one of the more major watershed films from one period to the next, alongside maybe GoldenEye. You would think that Daylights would be (especially as it's the first time Bond has had to become younger in the series), but it isn't really- not that much changes between that and AVTAK. It's nice that so many of the personnel working on the series cross over with each other so there are very few distinct lines drawn. Even Barbara Broccoli was present in Jamaica during the shooting of Dr No (she was a baby admittedly!).
  • Posts: 2,402
    This WILL prove to be a controversial opinion in the coming days and weeks.

    No Time to Die is a cinematic triumph on a level above pretty much any film in the series whose name is not Casino Royale.
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