Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Posts: 9,846
    There are talented American Directors who could do a brilliant job on 007 specifically during the Craig era (Tony Gilroy for example) and Eon are bloody fools not to use them heck Steven Spielberg would of been better for Die Another Day then Tamahori.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Interestingly enough I was having this conversation with a friend yesterday. I think it's somewhat daft that EoN are still sticking to the old traditions of UK/Common wealth directors only. I watched Gravity yesterday, excellent film, written, directed and produce by Alfonso Cuaron. This guy is a brilliant film maker and he also happened to direct Harry Potter and the prisoner of Azkaban. That being said, I've said this a few times before, the Potter movies are and feel definitely more British than the Bond movies do and yet the series has had Caron and Columbus direct the first 3 movies between them without ever once losing an iota of Britishness. Also as a side note, Jany Temime came on board as the resident costume designer from the Prisoner of Askaban onwards and of course held the position for Skyfall and again worked with Cauron for Gravity. Another example is Alan Taylor, the dude's American yet more than capable of making a great Bond film imo.

    Anyway, I just think that once Mendes is done with doing his Bond films (I foresee him either directing the remainder of Craig's tenure or being done after Bond 24) EoN should have a serious look at exploring foreign directors. As long as the producers do their job there really shouldn't be anything to worry about.
  • doubleoego wrote:
    Elliot Carver is the most entertaining villain within the last 16 years.

    I'd say the same about TND in general. While (imo) it's not the best Bond film of the Brosnan and Craig eras, I think it's the most entertaining. It's just a lot of fun and I can always stick it on and enjoy it.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 nailed it: it's an opinion. I don't know how opinions can become misconstrued into facts, which leads to so many fights on these forums. Someone's favorite author could be Shakespeare while another's could be the writer of the '50 Shades' trilogy, and as ludicrous as it sounds, it's an opinion, albeit a bad one.
  • Creasy47 wrote:
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 nailed it: it's an opinion. I don't know how opinions can become misconstrued into facts, which leads to so many fights on these forums. Someone's favorite author could be Shakespeare while another's could be the writer of the '50 Shades' trilogy, and as ludicrous as it sounds, it's an opinion, albeit a bad one.

    What @Soundoftheinners argued against was clearly the "Worlds best Writer" Labeling not the enjoy factor. You simply can't measure quality in likes and sales. If that were the case we all would have to readjust our opinions of Barbara Cartland and you wouldn't like that either,would you?
  • Posts: 7,653
    SaintMark wrote:
    Fleming creation has become influential because of EON, otherwise he would have been in the forgotten catalogue of thrillerwiters of yesterday.
    EONs James Bond 007 has done more for the genre than Ian Flemings James Bond 007.

    Over the course of Fleming's writing career, his novels became wildly popular, and certainly long before the film Goldfinger inaugurated Bond mania. That popularity suggests that Fleming would hardly have been forgotten. But popularity aside, Fleming was obviously a literary genius. Even without the existence of the films, Fleming's work would be studied as seminal for the thriller genre.

    As for the concluding sentence, it doesn't merit a response.

    Many writers have had a popularity in the past, had even movies made based upon their movies, such popularity is fleeting at best. EON keeps Flemings name and books alive as long as they keep making movies.

    I enjoy Flemings books would hesitate to call him a literary genius.

    The concluding sentence does not merit a response?? You obviously do not realise that the likes of Raffles; Bulldog Drummond; Hannah; the Saint; Mixer; Toff; Black Shirt; Norman Conquest, even the original, Sexton Blake, all had a large role in the creation of James Bond as they were the inspiration of the young Ian Fleming.
    And others build upon Flemings creation, it was not as if Fleming had created 007 out of some sort of nothingness. Fleming was an important part of the development as were the other hero's mentioned before.

    In that sense I do dare to state that the EON movie series did change the face of spymovies and tv series on spies, they all copied Broccoli & Saltzmans creation. And a lot of countermovement in spy-movies wanted to do something different than the EON series, through which we got some excellent stuff as well. Even EON did with DC's tenure want to do something different from the classic Bondmovies, which works well so far. With the coming of James Bond 007 on the big screen the face of spy movies changed and they all get compared with the big franchise. And it influenced a lot of writers who tried and came up with their own spies and hero's.


  • Posts: 7,653
    chrisisall wrote:
    I do much prefer discussing this kind of thing though, as opposed to racism and the sins of the white man.
    Lone Ranger: "We're surrounded by Indians, what are we gonna do, Tonto?"
    Tonto: "What you mean 'WE', white man?"

    The best moment of that awefull movie, it made really laugh.

    Actually I did like Depps Tonto a lot, like captain Jack totally original.

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    @Matt_Helm, why does it seem like you try to pick a fight with/antagonize everyone? I'm not from the UK, and after a simple search, I have no idea who Barbara Cartland is, so please, don't act like you know who I am. It's insulting coming from you.
  • Creasy47 wrote:
    @Matt_Helm, why does it seem like you try to pick a fight with/antagonize everyone? I'm not from the UK, and after a simple search, I have no idea who Barbara Cartland is, so please, don't act like you know who I am. It's insulting coming from you.

    Believe it or not,but I am not interested in annoying anyone. That said it is my firm believe that statements like "xy is the best writer on the planet" just on someones personal preferences shows such a high level of arrogance as well as ignorance that can't be ignored. About Barbara Cartland - she must have produced (I shun the term "written) about a zillion love novels and I thought she is known/infamous just about everywhere on this side of the moon.
  • Posts: 2,402
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @Matt_Helm, why does it seem like you try to pick a fight with/antagonize everyone? I'm not from the UK, and after a simple search, I have no idea who Barbara Cartland is, so please, don't act like you know who I am. It's insulting coming from you.

    Believe it or not,but I am not interested in annoying anyone. That said it is my firm believe that statements like "xy is the best writer on the planet" just on someones personal preferences shows such a high level of arrogance as well as ignorance that can't be ignored. About Barbara Cartland - she must have produced (I shun the term "written) about a zillion love novels and I thought she is known/infamous just about everywhere on this side of the moon.

    How is it arrogant? I've read my fair share of literature. All the 1984s, the War and Peaces, Pride and Prejudices, the Hamlets, none of them compare to FRWL and OHMSS to me. I think Shakespeare was a genius. I think Dickens was a genius. I also think Fleming trumped them both. I never made any attempt to state that as fact and made it very clear that it was my opinion. Thank you to @Brady and others who defended me.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Shakespeare & Dickens trumped by Ian Fleming is indeed a very personal choice and as such not debatable at all.

    And I indeed would read sooner a Fleming novel than a Dickens or a Shakespeare in my spare time, as on their influence on the world literature they are easily in a total higher league than Fleming, but that in itself is NO shamefull fact.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    @Matt_Helm, you've never heard people word their favorite film/artist/author/actor etc. as "the best"? It's just a way of expressing it.

    'Munich is the best film ever.'

    Doesn't mean it's a fact, it means I find it to be the best film ever.
  • Posts: 2,402
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @Matt_Helm, you've never heard people word their favorite film/artist/author/actor etc. as "the best"? It's just a way of expressing it.

    'Munich is the best film ever.'

    Doesn't mean it's a fact, it means I find it to be the best film ever.

    This. This is exactly what I've been trying to say.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @Matt_Helm, you've never heard people word their favorite film/artist/author/actor etc. as "the best"? It's just a way of expressing it.

    'Munich is the best film ever.'

    Doesn't mean it's a fact, it means I find it to be the best film ever.

    This. This is exactly what I've been trying to say.

    That's basically how I think as well, where my favorite writers (or creators) are also in my opinion the best. Why else would you follow their work unless you believed such a thing? People can argue that "objectively" your choices aren't the "best" ever, but there is no such thing as objectivity in my view anyway, and I am not being arrogant or ostentatious when I make comments calling Conan Doyle the best writer, Holmes the best character, or any other such comment, as they are all just opinions. I connect to characters like Holmes, Batman and Bond, as well as the writing of Doyle, the Batman comics and Fleming's work in general, reactions I haven't felt elsewhere before. Those characters and creators will then always be my favorites, and who I think are the best I have come across at this point. Will more names be added to my list while I explore more in literature, film and beyond? Yes, but those names will always be who I think are the best, no ifs, ands or buts about it.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited November 2013 Posts: 17,789
    there is no such thing as objectivity in my view anyway
    It *can* be attempted, and if one is thoughtful, *nearly* attained.... IMO.


    Then you can look back upon it & realized where you effed up. :)
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited November 2013 Posts: 40,968
    Nice to know some of you agree with me. For a certain someone else, please, start accepting others views. I'm surprised you've made it anywhere in this world with such a foul attitude. You aren't better than the rest of us.
  • edited November 2013 Posts: 908
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    Fleming creation has become influential because of EON, otherwise he would have been in the forgotten catalogue of thrillerwiters of yesterday.
    EONs James Bond 007 has done more for the genre than Ian Flemings James Bond 007.

    This is simply as true as it gets!

    Oh here we go again... ladies and gentlemen, @Matt_Helm.

    Ian Fleming is the greatest author of all time IMO. NUMEROUS spy writers and writers in general have credited Bond and Fleming as an influence. The films would not exist without Fleming and the Dalton and Craig eras, which have produced four of the best films in the series, can be summed up as simply as "back to the books."

    So please. To quote Stringer Bell, "Take that shit somewhere else!"

    Yeah sure, it is obviously me who's got problems accepting different views. You people simply have to learn to differ between personal preferences and some kind of objective measure. It's not that someone claimed that Fleming was a bad writer. It's just when it comes to the worlds best Status, he just doesn't make the Cut,not even in his Genre and it shouldn't be that hard to accept facing the Oeuvres of the likes of LeCarré and quite a few others who put spy literature to complete New Levels.
  • Posts: 6,396
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    Matt_Helm wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    Fleming creation has become influential because of EON, otherwise he would have been in the forgotten catalogue of thrillerwiters of yesterday.
    EONs James Bond 007 has done more for the genre than Ian Flemings James Bond 007.

    This is simply as true as it gets!

    Oh here we go again... ladies and gentlemen, @Matt_Helm.

    Ian Fleming is the greatest author of all time IMO. NUMEROUS spy writers and writers in general have credited Bond and Fleming as an influence. The films would not exist without Fleming and the Dalton and Craig eras, which have produced four of the best films in the series, can be summed up as simply as "back to the books."

    So please. To quote Stringer Bell, "Take that shit somewhere else!"

    Yeah sure, it is obviously me who's got problems accepting different views. You people simply have to learn to differ between personal preferences and some kind of objective measure. It's not that someone claimed that Fleming was a bad writer. It's just when it comes to the worlds best Status, he just doesn't make the Cut,not even in his Genre and it shouldn't be that hard to accept facing the Oeuvres of the likes of LeCarré and quite a few others who put spy literature to complete New Levels.

    But everything you've just said is still your opinion. It's not based on anything factual. There is no way to actually prove who is the best writer. It's quite simple. Some people prefer Fleming and some people don't.
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    #1. I rank DAD higher than TLD
    #2. I consider FYEO to be one of the worst films in the series
    #3. QoS is better than most of the films
    #4. I can live with the GB at the end of the film
    #5. TWINE is the next to worst Bond-film
  • @MrBond, your profile picture is of Dalton, but you like DAD more than TLD...certainly didn't see that coming.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    MrBond wrote:
    #1. I rank DAD higher than TLD
    Sloppy with your drink. Get this boy a bib... he needs his Mama.
  • Posts: 1,970
    MrBond wrote:
    #1. I rank DAD higher than TLD
    #2. I consider FYEO to be one of the worst films in the series
    #3. QoS is better than most of the films
    #4. I can live with the GB at the end of the film
    #5. TWINE is the next to worst Bond-film

    How dare you with these 2
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    @MrBond, your profile picture is of Dalton, but you like DAD more than TLD...certainly didn't see that coming.

    I prefer Dalton to Brosnan, i find his portrait of Bond far more compelling than Brosnans. And i like TLD and ADORE LTK, but i do just find DAD enjoyable. It's a entertaining movie to watch if i'm in the right mindset... So sue me.

    And before i get any unnecessary accusations on me. I find Flemings book absolutely brilliant, and i prefer my Bond to be a slowburner with deep characthers and a intresting story. And i prefer slower dramas to fast action-flicks. I do just find DAD enjoyable from time to time!
    fjdinardo wrote:
    MrBond wrote:
    #1. I rank DAD higher than TLD
    #2. I consider FYEO to be one of the worst films in the series
    #3. QoS is better than most of the films
    #4. I can live with the GB at the end of the film
    #5. TWINE is the next to worst Bond-film

    How dare you with these 2

    If the overall film is good then i can survive with the GB at the end. I doesen't make or break a film for me.

    TWINE is a dull melodrama that tried to be a updated version of OHMSS but failed miserably due to a bad script, awful direction and bad acting.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    MrBond wrote:

    TWINE.......a bad script, awful direction and bad acting.

    Says the bloke defending DAD? Go figure people.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,270
    MrBond wrote:

    TWINE.......a bad script, awful direction and bad acting.

    Says the bloke defending DAD? Go figure people.

    The reality is TWINE paved the way for the reboot and CR. Am I right? I'm not wrong. ;)
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    MrBond wrote:

    TWINE.......a bad script, awful direction and bad acting.

    Says the bloke defending DAD? Go figure people.

    DAD is atleast full of life, it moves at a brisk pace and is overall better directed than TWINE. Where TWINE succumbs to keep the up the intrest due it's lack of inspiring editing and direction, DAD prevails.

    And yes DAD has it's obvious problems, and yes Tamahori's opinions at Bond is utter ridiculous.
  • "Die another Day is full of life and is an overall better directed release than The World Is Not Enough" - just about viewed it all on these pages now
  • Posts: 1,970
    TWINE is by far a better movie than DAD.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited November 2013 Posts: 40,968
    GE's 'Run, Shoot, and Jump' - mainly the bit from when Bond and Natalya escape the interrogation room until they hit the archives - is one of my favorite bits of score in the series.
  • Posts: 2,402
    Creasy47 wrote:
    GE's 'Run, Shoot, and Jump' - mainly the bit from when Bond and Natalya escape the interrogation room until they hit the archives - is one of my favorite bits of score in the series.

    I am PRAYING this isn't controversial. As much as people shittalk Serra's score that was a FANTASTIC piece of music.
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