Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Posts: 4,162
    Revelator wrote: »
    I can't agree with you there. Connery was not just an excellent actor but a considerably more subtle comedic actor than Moore--his delivery and timing of Bond's throwaway lines set the standard. And even in DAF, the first Moore Bond film in many ways, Connery is adept with the dialogue. As Sidney Lumet, who directed some of Connery's best performances, said: ''The thing that was apparent to me--and to most directors--was how much talent and ability it takes to play that kind of character, [who's] based on charm and magnetism. It's the movie equivalent of high comedy, and he did it brilliantly.''

    Nor do I think Moore put his all into his performances. In his first couple of Bonds and his last he's relatively stiff, whereas Connery, even when bored by the script, was relaxed in the role. As for accents, they can serve as a flashy demonstration of technique, but they don't gauge acting ability. Lastly, comparing their non-Bond careers is revealing: it's impossible to imagine Moore matching Connery's best performances in The Offence, Robin and Marian, The Who Would Be King, The Hill, etc.

    Really? I honestly find some of Connery's work in TB, YOLT and DAF near unwatchable, he's that bored and stiff. That's one of the reasons why I got the sense Moore was seen as such a breath of fresh air when he first appeared in LALD - he was relaxed, confident and embodied Bond. I mean, even when Moore did some very questionable movies (The Curse of The Pink Panther, North Sea Hijiack) he always puts in his all and comes out with some surprisingly interesting performances.

    I'd also say while Connery could deliver a dry line (Moore could do all that too incidentally), performing comedy is a different thing, whether you're the straight man or the joker. Marlon Brando wasn't good at comedy either so it's no slight against Connery, it's just that I feel Moore had more of a natural ability to perform in that genre, again both as a straight man and an out and out comedian.

    Connery got better film roles and worked with better directors, true, and certainly a lot were very dramatic ones too. I'm not sure if that means much as plenty of very talented actors perform in very bad films and not so good actors often get very good roles for whatever reason. And for what it's worth Connery was a very good actor with a lot of screen presence intensity. I just don't necessarily think he was necessarily the better actor between him and Moore.

    I wouldn't dismiss accents as 'flashy' either: the voice of a character is often the first thing that great actors work on when preparing for a role. They'll go through tone, accent, intonation, apply their ability to mimic etc. It's not some flashy parlour trick but a vital part of creating a character.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    He’s clearly not bored in DAF. You have to be blind and deaf to believe that.
  • Posts: 4,162
    He’s clearly not bored in DAF. You have to be blind and deaf to believe that.

    I'd say it's better than his performances in TB and YOLT but that spark he had in his first three just wasn't there anymore.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    That’s because DAF was a different type of film and he was playing to the strength of that tone rather than trying to recapture an earlier performance that wouldn’t have suited DAF.
  • edited April 2022 Posts: 2,918
    007HallY wrote: »
    Really? I honestly find some of Connery's work in TB, YOLT and DAF near unwatchable, he's that bored and stiff. That's one of the reasons why I got the sense Moore was seen as such a breath of fresh air when he first appeared in LALD

    But Moore is very stiff in LALD and TMWTGG--he didn't relax as Bond until TSWLM. In contrast, by the end of Connery's tenure he so comfortable as Bond that he could coast through the role.
    I mean, even when Moore did some very questionable movies (The Curse of The Pink Panther, North Sea Hijiack) he always puts in his all and comes out with some surprisingly interesting performances.

    North Sea Hijack is one of Moore's best performances and one of his best films. It's also as far out of his range as he could go. Moore could easily give his all because he was limited as an actor, as he was the first to admit. There's no way he would have been half as convincing or intense in The Offence as Connery was, playing a burnt-out cop overwhelmed by his own demons.
    I'd also say while Connery could deliver a dry line (Moore could do all that too incidentally), performing comedy is a different thing

    Knowing how to deliver a dry comedic line is performing comedy. You can't do it without a sense of irony. And when Connery played a more explicitly comic part, like Indiana's Jones's dad, he was wonderful.
    I wouldn't dismiss accents as 'flashy' either: the voice of a character is often the first thing that great actors work on when preparing for a role.

    It's also the least important part, because it's ultimately mimicry rather than acting. Some actors are confident enough in their acting to not always bother with accents. And let's not forget that Roger's accents weren't great--his Irish brogue in Gold of the Seven Saints is far from Oscar material.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    I always considered Connery's performance in TB as one of the best Bond performances. He's fantastic in it.
  • edited April 2022 Posts: 4,162
    Revelator wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Really? I honestly find some of Connery's work in TB, YOLT and DAF near unwatchable, he's that bored and stiff. That's one of the reasons why I got the sense Moore was seen as such a breath of fresh air when he first appeared in LALD

    But Moore is very stiff in LALD and TMWTGG--he didn't relax as Bond until TSWLM. In contrast, by the end of Connery's tenure he so comfortable as Bond that he could coast through the role.
    I mean, even when Moore did some very questionable movies (The Curse of The Pink Panther, North Sea Hijiack) he always puts in his all and comes out with some surprisingly interesting performances.

    North Sea Hijack is one of Moore's best performances and one of his best films. It's also as far out of his range as he could go. Moore could easily give his all because he was limited as an actor, as he was the first to admit. There's no way he would have been half as convincing or intense in The Offence as Connery was, playing a burnt-out cop overwhelmed by his own demons.
    I'd also say while Connery could deliver a dry line (Moore could do all that too incidentally), performing comedy is a different thing

    Knowing how to deliver a dry comedic line is performing comedy. You can't do it without a sense of irony. And when Connery played a more explicitly comic part, like Indiana's Jones's dad, he was wonderful.
    I wouldn't dismiss accents as 'flashy' either: the voice of a character is often the first thing that great actors work on when preparing for a role.

    It's also the least important part, because it's ultimately mimicry rather than acting. Some actors are confident enough in their acting to not always bother with accents. And let's not forget that Roger's accents weren't great--his Irish brogue in Gold of the Seven Saints is far from Oscar material.

    Hmm, I feel there's going to be a lot of 'I say you say different' here so there's not much to add and there's probably an element of subjectiveness here. I just don't see Moore being 'stiff' in LALD and TMWTGG as you say. Like I said, I personally find Connery's performances in TB and YOLT painful to watch at points, he seems so bored and stiff, and while he seems to be trying hard in DAF it's really not the same. It's actually rather sad to watch for me as he was such a great Bond in his first three.

    I get what you mean about Connery in Indiana Jones but I think he was ultimately playing the straight man there. Moore displayed talent at slapstick, irony/dry humour and broad humour in addition to playing the straight man. My point is there are many different aspects of performing comedy and many different types of comedy too. I just think Moore had a wider comedic range and set of abilities than Connery in this area.

    Connery had a lot of intensity as I said and he played some great parts in some great films. I think he got better roles than Moore did, and I get the sense Roger didn't mind being typecast as much as Connery did. I would say, however, movies like The Hill and The Offence are very much 'actor's films' you got at the time. I always got the sense watching Connery in those films that I could 'see him acting' if that makes sense. It's perhaps a personal preference, but I would say that I'm more drawn to performances like Moore's in The Man Who Haunted Himself. He technically plays two different characters in that film in a sense, and his acting is very subtle. It's fascinating to watch. I don't think his range ended at his performance in North Sea Highjack and beyond Moore's performance I find that film a little uninspired if I'm honest. Anyway, that's just me.

    Nah, I'm pretty sure Connery just couldn't do accents and he was too famous and iconic for people to care. It's fine, I wouldn't want to change him for anyone else in films like The Untouchables or Hunt For The Red October. The fact is, however, creating the voice of a character is very important for a lot of actors (the likes of Daniel Day Lewis and Gary Oldman would attest to this). It's not just about mimicry - although finding little ticks, speech patterns and indeed accents in others and moulding them into a performance takes a lot of patience and skill. I haven't seen the film you mentioned so can't comment on that.
    That’s because DAF was a different type of film and he was playing to the strength of that tone rather than trying to recapture an earlier performance that wouldn’t have suited DAF.

    Fair enough. I just always thought there was something a bit off about his performance in that film. Not bored per say, just lacklustre in some strange way. I dunno, again there's probably a certain amount of subjectiveness here.
  • Posts: 2,402
    Thomas Newman is an incredible composer but a dismal Bond composer.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    Thomas Newman is an incredible composer but a dismal Bond composer.

    Fully agreed. I seem to love almost every non-Bond score I've heard of his but he's my least favorite composer in the series by far.
  • Posts: 2,402
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Thomas Newman is an incredible composer but a dismal Bond composer.

    Fully agreed. I seem to love almost every non-Bond score I've heard of his but he's my least favorite composer in the series by far.

    He might be for me, too. I'd probably rate Conti's FYEO score lower than either of Newman's, but not by much, and it's the fact that Newman bombed TWICE for me that really sets him at the bottom.

    Actually, no, NORMAN is the worst Bond composer for me. Easily.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited May 2022 Posts: 3,789
    I don't mind whatever the hair color of the next Bond actor will be, we already have Daniel Craig (a blond), so I don't mind if the next Bond actor is a ginger/redhead (Damian Lewis everyone?).
    As long as he can be a great actor and Bond, he can portray the role properly, and his films are great.
  • Posts: 5,994
    Found on YouTube :

  • Posts: 727
    I find Skyfall difficult to rewatch. I recognise its quality. But the rewatches are a slog. I blame Mendes and his dry, reserved, tripod heavy directing. It just feels lifeless. It worked the first time. Brought something new to the table. But brutal on rewatches.

    Whereas Casino Royale and NTTD are much more enjoyable to rewatch. Thanks to the more dynamic and adventurous direction by their respective helmers.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited May 2022 Posts: 554
    I find Skyfall difficult to rewatch. I recognise its quality. But the rewatches are a slog. I blame Mendes and his dry, reserved, tripod heavy directing. It just feels lifeless. It worked the first time. Brought something new to the table. But brutal on rewatches.

    Whereas Casino Royale and NTTD are much more enjoyable to rewatch. Thanks to the more dynamic and adventurous direction by their respective helmers.
    It's funny, I really enjoy rewatching Skyfall.

    And for a controversial opinion of my own, I like Another Way to Die, with the exception of the bridge.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    I find Skyfall difficult to rewatch. I recognise its quality. But the rewatches are a slog. I blame Mendes and his dry, reserved, tripod heavy directing. It just feels lifeless. It worked the first time. Brought something new to the table. But brutal on rewatches.

    Whereas Casino Royale and NTTD are much more enjoyable to rewatch. Thanks to the more dynamic and adventurous direction by their respective helmers.

    After the piss poor shakycam and editing of QOS, SF felt like a godsend.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,636
    Richard Maibaum was always full of himself. Criticizing other people who didn’t do his writing the way he wanted. This isn’t the first time he did that. He criticized actors almost nonstop: Telly Savalas, Christopher Lee, George Lazenby, he was just full of himself as a writer. Calling LALD a disappointment just because they wanted to try something different without him is just being a sore loser. I’m thankful for his continuing help, but even Ian Fleming could admit that he went wrong more than once.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited August 2022 Posts: 3,789
    Just realized after watching the Moore Era Bond films, that Roger Moore's Bond was actually human too, maybe moreso than Craig's Bond.

    For those whose saying that it's only until Craig that Bond bleeds, it's just a myth!

    Roger Moore's Bond bleeds many times in his films, first was in LALD when Kananga cuts a knife through his arm, it bleeds, in TMWTGG, he bleeds too while fighting those bad guys in Beirut after seducing Saida, then in FYEO.

    His clothes not being able to get ruffled? His suits had been ruffled, put by a dirt so many times, even scratched!

    He even felt scared, you really see the fear in Moore Bond's face when facing dangerous or deadly situations, whereas Craig's Bond was still able to show confidence, I don't see any fear or scare in the Craig Bond's face, just purely style and confidence.

    Also he's also humanized in the Moonraker Centrifuge scene.

    To those saying that the classic Bond are a Superhero and the Craig Bond is human, please stop it!

    Actually Craig Bond had been acting more like a superhero than the Classic Bond mainly because of the unrealistic action scenes, like the beginning of CR in the embassy, that Parkour Chase, the Haiti Hotel scenes in QoS, and it makes him more of a superhero in the last three entries (SF, SP and NTTD - dodging the bullets, anyone?).

    Add to that of him (Craig Bond) being just a one man army, and yes his muscular look that really showed him as a really tough guy compared that to the lean bodies of the Previous Bonds that you couldn't imagine them being in a fight but they could!

    So the claims about Craig Bond being this most humanized Bond, it's false, the classic Bonds were more human than him.

    Roger Moore bond films might be a camp and comedy at times, but his Bond wasn't.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    @MI6HQ Aspects of the earlier Bond films have been parodied so many times, with all that brings with it of exaggerations, and I think those exaggerations have caught on as truths for many people.
  • edited August 2022 Posts: 4,162
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    Just realized after watching the Moore Era Bond films, that Roger Moore's Bond was actually human too, maybe moreso than Craig's Bond.

    For those whose saying that it's only until Craig that Bond bleeds, it's just a myth!

    Roger Moore's Bond bleeds many times in his films, first was in LALD when Kananga cuts a knife through his arm, it bleeds, in TMWTGG, he bleeds too while fighting those bad guys in Beirut after seducing Saida, then in FYEO.

    His clothes not being able to get ruffled? His suits had been ruffled, put by a dirt so many times, even scratched!

    He even felt scared, you really see the fear in Moore Bond's face when facing dangerous or deadly situations, whereas Craig's Bond was still able to show confidence, I don't see any fear or scare in the Craig Bond's face, just purely style and confidence.

    Also he's also humanized in the Moonraker Centrifuge scene.

    To those saying that the classic Bond are a Superhero and the Craig Bond is human, please stop it!

    Actually Craig Bond had been acting more like a superhero than the Classic Bond mainly because of the unrealistic action scenes, like the beginning of CR in the embassy, that Parkour Chase, the Haiti Hotel scenes in QoS, and it makes him more of a superhero in the last three entries (SF, SP and NTTD - dodging the bullets, anyone?).

    Add to that of him (Craig Bond) being just a one man army, and yes his muscular look that really showed him as a really tough guy compared that to the lean bodies of the Previous Bonds that you couldn't imagine them being in a fight but they could!

    So the claims about Craig Bond being this most humanized Bond, it's false, the classic Bonds were more human than him.

    Roger Moore bond films might be a camp and comedy at times, but his Bond wasn't.

    Y'know, I've said before that Craig's Bond did become noticeably more 'superhuman', at least in terms of fight scenes, as his films went on. I agree with the examples you noted from CR - NTTD. I think much of it has to do with the more stylised fight choreography and grand scale you get in a lot of big action films nowadays (this is why I really enjoyed the opening fight scene in The Batman - it didn't feel staged and looked real with the main character taking a lot of punches).

    I suppose when people say that Craig's Bond felt more 'human' it isn't necessarily because he gets hurt physically, but because of what the character goes through in his films. I do think that he feels distinctly more 'human' in SF compared to Moore's Bond in, say, TMWTGG because of the way the character is written. In SF, you have a man out of step with his own time, physically not at his peak anymore, a man reliant on pills and drink, who simultaneously is cynical about his profession and yet can't seem to do anything else with his life. That's not to mention the tragedy he's experienced before that. Again, it feels more relatable and human, despite the fact that in that film his Bond survives being shot twice and falling from a bridge.

    That's not to say Moore's Bond wasn't human though. Far from it. In TSWLM you have that scene where Anya references Tracy and the look Bond gives her/his response says so much. Same for when he admits that he killed her lover at the start of the film. It actually says much about Moore's talent as an actor that he could play these scenes so effectively. There are several of these moments throughout his tenure as Bond, and while I don't always think they worked (FYEO and Bond's bizarre sprouting of Chinese philosophy being an example) they are there.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    Posts: 554
    007HallY wrote: »
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    Just realized after watching the Moore Era Bond films, that Roger Moore's Bond was actually human too, maybe moreso than Craig's Bond.

    For those whose saying that it's only until Craig that Bond bleeds, it's just a myth!

    Roger Moore's Bond bleeds many times in his films, first was in LALD when Kananga cuts a knife through his arm, it bleeds, in TMWTGG, he bleeds too while fighting those bad guys in Beirut after seducing Saida, then in FYEO.

    His clothes not being able to get ruffled? His suits had been ruffled, put by a dirt so many times, even scratched!

    He even felt scared, you really see the fear in Moore Bond's face when facing dangerous or deadly situations, whereas Craig's Bond was still able to show confidence, I don't see any fear or scare in the Craig Bond's face, just purely style and confidence.

    Also he's also humanized in the Moonraker Centrifuge scene.

    To those saying that the classic Bond are a Superhero and the Craig Bond is human, please stop it!

    Actually Craig Bond had been acting more like a superhero than the Classic Bond mainly because of the unrealistic action scenes, like the beginning of CR in the embassy, that Parkour Chase, the Haiti Hotel scenes in QoS, and it makes him more of a superhero in the last three entries (SF, SP and NTTD - dodging the bullets, anyone?).

    Add to that of him (Craig Bond) being just a one man army, and yes his muscular look that really showed him as a really tough guy compared that to the lean bodies of the Previous Bonds that you couldn't imagine them being in a fight but they could!

    So the claims about Craig Bond being this most humanized Bond, it's false, the classic Bonds were more human than him.

    Roger Moore bond films might be a camp and comedy at times, but his Bond wasn't.

    Y'know, I've said before that Craig's Bond did become noticeably more 'superhuman', at least in terms of fight scenes, as his films went on. I agree with the examples you noted from CR - NTTD. I think much of it has to do with the more stylised fight choreography and grand scale you get in a lot of big action films nowadays (this is why I really enjoyed the opening fight scene in The Batman - it didn't feel staged and looked real with the main character taking a lot of punches).

    I suppose when people say that Craig's Bond felt more 'human' it isn't necessarily because he gets hurt physically, but because of what the character goes through in his films. I do think that he feels distinctly more 'human' in SF compared to Moore's Bond in, say, TMWTGG because of the way the character is written. In SF, you have a man out of step with his own time, physically not at his peak anymore, a man reliant on pills and drink, who simultaneously is cynical about his profession and yet can't seem to do anything else with his life. That's not to mention the tragedy he's experienced before that. Again, it feels more relatable and human, despite the fact that in that film his Bond survives being shot twice and falling from a bridge.

    That's not to say Moore's Bond wasn't human though. Far from it. In TSWLM you have that scene where Anya references Tracy and the look Bond gives her/his response says so much. Same for when he admits that he killed her lover at the start of the film. It actually says much about Moore's talent as an actor that he could play these scenes so effectively. There are several of these moments throughout his tenure as Bond, and while I don't always think they worked (FYEO and Bond's bizarre sprouting of Chinese philosophy being an example) they are there.
    A more positive example from FYEO would be him at Tracy's grave.
  • Posts: 4,162
    007HallY wrote: »
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    Just realized after watching the Moore Era Bond films, that Roger Moore's Bond was actually human too, maybe moreso than Craig's Bond.

    For those whose saying that it's only until Craig that Bond bleeds, it's just a myth!

    Roger Moore's Bond bleeds many times in his films, first was in LALD when Kananga cuts a knife through his arm, it bleeds, in TMWTGG, he bleeds too while fighting those bad guys in Beirut after seducing Saida, then in FYEO.

    His clothes not being able to get ruffled? His suits had been ruffled, put by a dirt so many times, even scratched!

    He even felt scared, you really see the fear in Moore Bond's face when facing dangerous or deadly situations, whereas Craig's Bond was still able to show confidence, I don't see any fear or scare in the Craig Bond's face, just purely style and confidence.

    Also he's also humanized in the Moonraker Centrifuge scene.

    To those saying that the classic Bond are a Superhero and the Craig Bond is human, please stop it!

    Actually Craig Bond had been acting more like a superhero than the Classic Bond mainly because of the unrealistic action scenes, like the beginning of CR in the embassy, that Parkour Chase, the Haiti Hotel scenes in QoS, and it makes him more of a superhero in the last three entries (SF, SP and NTTD - dodging the bullets, anyone?).

    Add to that of him (Craig Bond) being just a one man army, and yes his muscular look that really showed him as a really tough guy compared that to the lean bodies of the Previous Bonds that you couldn't imagine them being in a fight but they could!

    So the claims about Craig Bond being this most humanized Bond, it's false, the classic Bonds were more human than him.

    Roger Moore bond films might be a camp and comedy at times, but his Bond wasn't.

    Y'know, I've said before that Craig's Bond did become noticeably more 'superhuman', at least in terms of fight scenes, as his films went on. I agree with the examples you noted from CR - NTTD. I think much of it has to do with the more stylised fight choreography and grand scale you get in a lot of big action films nowadays (this is why I really enjoyed the opening fight scene in The Batman - it didn't feel staged and looked real with the main character taking a lot of punches).

    I suppose when people say that Craig's Bond felt more 'human' it isn't necessarily because he gets hurt physically, but because of what the character goes through in his films. I do think that he feels distinctly more 'human' in SF compared to Moore's Bond in, say, TMWTGG because of the way the character is written. In SF, you have a man out of step with his own time, physically not at his peak anymore, a man reliant on pills and drink, who simultaneously is cynical about his profession and yet can't seem to do anything else with his life. That's not to mention the tragedy he's experienced before that. Again, it feels more relatable and human, despite the fact that in that film his Bond survives being shot twice and falling from a bridge.

    That's not to say Moore's Bond wasn't human though. Far from it. In TSWLM you have that scene where Anya references Tracy and the look Bond gives her/his response says so much. Same for when he admits that he killed her lover at the start of the film. It actually says much about Moore's talent as an actor that he could play these scenes so effectively. There are several of these moments throughout his tenure as Bond, and while I don't always think they worked (FYEO and Bond's bizarre sprouting of Chinese philosophy being an example) they are there.
    A more positive example from FYEO would be him at Tracy's grave.

    Yes, I agree. Even in something like OP with its 'sillier' moments I think you can find examples of Moore's Bond feeling more human. You really get a sense of his urgency, his fear even when he's in the clown make-up and rushing to get to the bomb during the climax. I also felt it pretty distinctly when Bond confronts Orlov in the train too.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    Posts: 554
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    Just realized after watching the Moore Era Bond films, that Roger Moore's Bond was actually human too, maybe moreso than Craig's Bond.

    For those whose saying that it's only until Craig that Bond bleeds, it's just a myth!

    Roger Moore's Bond bleeds many times in his films, first was in LALD when Kananga cuts a knife through his arm, it bleeds, in TMWTGG, he bleeds too while fighting those bad guys in Beirut after seducing Saida, then in FYEO.

    His clothes not being able to get ruffled? His suits had been ruffled, put by a dirt so many times, even scratched!

    He even felt scared, you really see the fear in Moore Bond's face when facing dangerous or deadly situations, whereas Craig's Bond was still able to show confidence, I don't see any fear or scare in the Craig Bond's face, just purely style and confidence.

    Also he's also humanized in the Moonraker Centrifuge scene.

    To those saying that the classic Bond are a Superhero and the Craig Bond is human, please stop it!

    Actually Craig Bond had been acting more like a superhero than the Classic Bond mainly because of the unrealistic action scenes, like the beginning of CR in the embassy, that Parkour Chase, the Haiti Hotel scenes in QoS, and it makes him more of a superhero in the last three entries (SF, SP and NTTD - dodging the bullets, anyone?).

    Add to that of him (Craig Bond) being just a one man army, and yes his muscular look that really showed him as a really tough guy compared that to the lean bodies of the Previous Bonds that you couldn't imagine them being in a fight but they could!

    So the claims about Craig Bond being this most humanized Bond, it's false, the classic Bonds were more human than him.

    Roger Moore bond films might be a camp and comedy at times, but his Bond wasn't.

    Y'know, I've said before that Craig's Bond did become noticeably more 'superhuman', at least in terms of fight scenes, as his films went on. I agree with the examples you noted from CR - NTTD. I think much of it has to do with the more stylised fight choreography and grand scale you get in a lot of big action films nowadays (this is why I really enjoyed the opening fight scene in The Batman - it didn't feel staged and looked real with the main character taking a lot of punches).

    I suppose when people say that Craig's Bond felt more 'human' it isn't necessarily because he gets hurt physically, but because of what the character goes through in his films. I do think that he feels distinctly more 'human' in SF compared to Moore's Bond in, say, TMWTGG because of the way the character is written. In SF, you have a man out of step with his own time, physically not at his peak anymore, a man reliant on pills and drink, who simultaneously is cynical about his profession and yet can't seem to do anything else with his life. That's not to mention the tragedy he's experienced before that. Again, it feels more relatable and human, despite the fact that in that film his Bond survives being shot twice and falling from a bridge.

    That's not to say Moore's Bond wasn't human though. Far from it. In TSWLM you have that scene where Anya references Tracy and the look Bond gives her/his response says so much. Same for when he admits that he killed her lover at the start of the film. It actually says much about Moore's talent as an actor that he could play these scenes so effectively. There are several of these moments throughout his tenure as Bond, and while I don't always think they worked (FYEO and Bond's bizarre sprouting of Chinese philosophy being an example) they are there.
    A more positive example from FYEO would be him at Tracy's grave.

    Yes, I agree. Even in something like OP with its 'sillier' moments I think you can find examples of Moore's Bond feeling more human. You really get a sense of his urgency, his fear even when he's in the clown make-up and rushing to get to the bomb during the climax. I also felt it pretty distinctly when Bond confronts Orlov in the train too.
    Agreed. I think Moore was the only Bond who could've sold the clown sequence.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,134
    I was looking at my latest ranking and realised that I prefer Rog’s lesser acclaimed Bond films TMWTGG / MR / OP / AVTAK over his better-regarded ones LALD / TSWLM / FYEO.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    I like Thomas Newman’s music more than David Arnold’s.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    I like Thomas Newman’s music more than David Arnold’s.

    Considering Arnold only got in his stride from CR onwards, I tend to agree
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    I think his DAD score is better than CR. I don’t think Arnold did a good job with trying to score the more quiet scenes like on the poker table.

    The score for QOS was much better. Whatever Forster did to get that out of him, good job.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    Yeah, I think I prefer Newman too. I certainly didn't use to, but most of Arnold's work hasn't aged super well for me. I think QOS is spectucular though, and up there with Barry's best work, but that's only 1 for 5 for me.

    Listening to the Spectre soundtrack in isolation halped me appreciate him more. His music has some commonalities with music I'd listen to anyway, and in the context of the films, it really feels organic to what you're watching, which I suppose fits with his apparent philosophy of thinking the music shouldn't actually stand out all that much....
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited September 2022 Posts: 3,789
    Newman and Arnold are both great, they're creative and innovative, at least they had originality compared to Zimmer (bit disappointed of his work) when he tried to copy OHMSS and The Dark Knight into NTTD scores, for me, it had no originality, I've expected something from Zimmer, but it all fell off when I've heard his score.

    Instead of creating something original, he copied some scores from other films, it's just seemed lazy for me.

    I really love Newman's work in SP, it fits the film, there's an air of mystery but somehow there's tense that added tension to the film scenes, I really liked the Safe House Track and the Blindfold.

    And of course, Arnold, he really had great scores, especially in the Brosnan Era.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,636
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    Newman and Arnold are both great, they're creative and innovative, at least they had originality compared to Zimmer (bit disappointed of his work) when he tried to copy OHMSS and The Dark Knight into NTTD scores, for me, it had no originality, I've expected something from Zimmer, but it all fell off when I've heard his score.

    Instead of creating something original, he copied some scores from other films, it's just seemed lazy for me.

    I really love Newman's work in SP, it fits the film, there's an air of mystery but somehow there's tense that added tension to the film scenes, I really liked the Safe House Track and the Blindfold.

    And of course, Arnold, he really had great scores, especially in the Brosnan Era.

    I’m happy that we got both of them. I think that TND and CR are Arnold’s best work in the series. My two favorite music tracks are All in a Day's Work from TND and City of Lovers from CR. I can take them or leave them for the next Bond film though.

    Here’s a possible controversial opinion: the following Bond media should have gotten novelizations: Roald Dahl writing a YOLT book, someone from EA for NightFire, Bruce Feirstein or Raymond Benson for Everything or Nothing, and John Logan for Skyfall. These Bond adventures deserved to be in print as well. They would have worked well as books.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,582
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Here’s a possible controversial opinion: the following Bond media should have gotten novelizations: Roald Dahl writing a YOLT book, someone from EA for NightFire, Bruce Feirstein or Raymond Benson for Everything or Nothing, and John Logan for Skyfall. These Bond adventures deserved to be in print as well. They would have worked well as books.

    Novelizing the games would be cool and interesting. I can see it now:

    Q's rappel launcher showed no signs of stress as Bond fired it over a ledge for the umpteenth time. Perhaps the whirring sound of the inner winch had become a tad louder, but otherwise still a sturdy little convenience. A topless woman looked on in disbelief as he scaled the wall beside her window. She attempted to cover her ample bosoms, without much success. There was little reaction exhibited from Bond - certainly not like that of a teenage boy who just had to indulge in a second glance, mouth agape. Bond simply nodded, straightening his yellow diamond necktie with his free hand as he continued to ascend the building. It was as if one had experienced such a moment countless times before. Par for the course. Perks of the job, you could say.
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