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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • WillyGaloreWillyGalore
    Posts: 6,396
    chrisisall wrote:
    DarthDimi wrote:
    the sounds in space is a common mistake. I choose to ignore that when watching MR. ;-)
    In space, no one can hear you scream. Or fart. Or even blow up (unless they're in the blast radius). Actually, the other four elements I listed bug me a whole lot more.
    b-(

    On that basis though you, shouldn't you write off Star Trek and Star Wars? Lot's of sounds in space there.
  • LeighBurneLeighBurne
    Posts: 57
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Actually, I think MR has aged quite well. Its concept may have been extremely outlandish in '79, but with all this privatisation of space flight and whatnot, it seems that modern times are catching up with MR. Many of the film's ideas will forever remain pretty outlandish for a Bond film, but the technical stuff is definitely throwing off its layers of fantasy nowadays.
    Yeah, when I saw it recently, it was nowhere near as bad as I remembered. It still has some truly, cringe-worthily terrible moments in it (the Bondola, Jaws falling in love) but it also has a lot of great ones (the centrifuge, Corrine's death). The sets are absolutely fantastic too, the crazy Amazonian control room covered in video screens is one of my favourites from the entire series. Lonsdale is also genuinely great as Drax, I love his mild-mannered menace.

    Hell, even the flight into space sequence, as ridiculous as the concept is, is really well done, with superb special effects and accompanied by Barry's wonderful, haunting score. In fact, Barry's work goes a long way to making the film what it is, it seems as though he played it deadly serious to try and offset the crazy stuff on screen.

    The more I think about it, the more I realise there's actually a hell of a lot of awesome stuff in that film.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    General Average/Weak Bond films as a whole and NOT specific elements:

    YOLT
    DAF
    LALD
    TMWTGG
    MR
    FYEO
    AVTAK
    LTK
    TND
    TWINE
    DAD
    QoS

    52% of the Bond series falling under the average/weak category. Naturally this goes without saying but I don't expect most or anyone for that matter to agree with me on this. However, this underpins my initial comment that has facilitated the current, on going discussion. The series in general is largely passable hence why I think it's mediocre and it's ability to endure the test of time is, that through out the series, there are good to excellent releases sprinkled here and there that rise above the more average and weaker entries of the series and it helps that the average and weaker entries aren't exactly total abominations. DAD, regarded as one if the worst if not the worst did receive some critical praise at the time and made a killing at the BO, films like that won't kill a series with that sort of revenue, creative regrouping, sure but it serves a point that if a film like DAD can receive the initial reception it did, make the money it did, well, mediocrity with excellence here and there can sustain and that's exactly what imo this series has done.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    LeighBurne wrote:
    Hell, even the flight into space sequence, as ridiculous as the concept is,



    MR has lots of ridiculous moments but this is not one of them.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,169
    MR is often wrongfully considered to be a film full of scientific errors. Apart from the common sound-in-space and lasers-galore flaws, which occur in almost all space themed action / adventure films, many things MR shows could - theoretically - happen. The big issues are purely logistical. How Drax is able to build space shuttles all by himself, under one roof so to speak, meanwhile constructing launch platforms in the middle of nowhere AND a fully functional space station, without anyone else on the planet noticing, is beyond me. Such endeavours, in real life, require participation from multiple companies and partners, and they will certainly attract attention. The novel made the whole rocket thing more realistic, if I dare use that word. Then again, we saw hollowed out volcanoes, assimilated oil rigs and super-sized tankers prior to MR. Also, GF's plot makes absolutely no sense scientifically so if MR takes a beating for being scientifically silly, then GF should definitely burn in the fires of Mount Doom.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Ahh, the pitfalls of fantasy.
  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    I agree, DD. And upthread somewhere I believe somebody mentioned Fleming's dictum that the improbable is just fine in a thriller, but the impossible is not. Drax's gambit in the film, while highly improbable, is not, theoretically, impossible. Hence, I have no problem with MR's plot whatsoever. This is Bond, not documentary.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Perilagu_Khan wrote:
    I agree, DD. And upthread somewhere I believe somebody mentioned Fleming's dictum that the improbable is just fine in a thriller, but the impossible is not. Drax's gambit in the film, while highly improbable, is not, theoretically, impossible. Hence, I have no problem with MR's plot whatsoever. This is Bond, not documentary.

    Very well said. Which is why the invisible car crossed the line.

  • 00130013
    Posts: 1,817
    At least the re-entry shuttle in MR is realistic, not like the retro-rocket in YOLT, or its launching with almost none fire. Or in another franchise, Anakin landing a trashed space ship (ROTS) that couldn't have any aerodynamic whatsoever... Of course, you could explain that using the Force card.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    0013 wrote:
    At least the re-entry shuttle in MR is realistic, not like the retro-rocket in YOLT, or its launching with almost none fire. Or in another franchise, Anakin landing a trashed space ship (ROTS) that couldn't have any aerodynamic whatsoever... Of course, you could explain that using the Force card.

    Precisely. Anyone wanting to criticise MR should first eviscerate YOLT because the grasp of aeronautics in that film is ludicrous. The YOLT rocket wouldnt even get out of the volcano with that amount of thrust.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,169
    Even the invisible car might one day become reality. Metamaterials have been manufactured already. They have a negative index of refraction and thus 'bend' light. So far it's worked with long wavelengths but not yet in the region of visible light. That, however, is predicted to be but a matter of time. DAD may eventually be heralded for predicting future tech. ;-)
  • SoundofthesinnersSoundofthesinners
    Posts: 3,236
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Even the invisible car might one day become reality. Metamaterials have been manufactured already. They have a negative index of refraction and thus 'bend' light. So far it's worked with long wavelengths but not yet in the region of visible light. That, however, is predicted to be but a matter of time. DAD may eventually be heralded for predicting future tech. ;-)

    One thing's for sure, though. I will never, ever, buy Halle Berry as an NSA Agent.
  • Risico007Risico007
    Posts: 9,846
    Quantum of solace is brilliant

    and the Opera Sequence is by far one of the best scene in Bond history.

    the win in Casino Royale eclipses it ever so slightly.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,964
    I thought there was already an "invisible car," which wasn't as something as good as the Aston Martin in DAD, but merely one with a bunch of mirrors all around it to show what's on the other side and hide the car to an extent.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Soundofthesinners wrote:
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Even the invisible car might one day become reality. Metamaterials have been manufactured already. They have a negative index of refraction and thus 'bend' light. So far it's worked with long wavelengths but not yet in the region of visible light. That, however, is predicted to be but a matter of time. DAD may eventually be heralded for predicting future tech. ;-)

    One thing's for sure, though. I will never, ever, buy Halle Berry as an NSA Agent.

    That's how I feel about Roger Moore being an MI6 agent.

  • WillyGaloreWillyGalore
    Posts: 6,396
    Soundofthesinners wrote:
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Even the invisible car might one day become reality. Metamaterials have been manufactured already. They have a negative index of refraction and thus 'bend' light. So far it's worked with long wavelengths but not yet in the region of visible light. That, however, is predicted to be but a matter of time. DAD may eventually be heralded for predicting future tech. ;-)

    One thing's for sure, though. I will never, ever, buy Halle Berry as an NSA Agent actress.

    Amended accordingly :D
  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    Perilagu_Khan wrote:
    I agree, DD. And upthread somewhere I believe somebody mentioned Fleming's dictum that the improbable is just fine in a thriller, but the impossible is not. Drax's gambit in the film, while highly improbable, is not, theoretically, impossible. Hence, I have no problem with MR's plot whatsoever. This is Bond, not documentary.

    Very well said. Which is why the invisible car crossed the line.

    Yes, that was a terrible moment. As was Moneypenny's seduction by the physio-holographic Bond. Not only impossible, but in incredibly poor taste.

  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Even the invisible car might one day become reality. Metamaterials have been manufactured already. They have a negative index of refraction and thus 'bend' light. So far it's worked with long wavelengths but not yet in the region of visible light. That, however, is predicted to be but a matter of time. DAD may eventually be heralded for predicting future tech. ;-)

    Meh. By possible, I mean possible in the here and the now. If you want to project ahead infinitely, nothing's impossible.

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,964
    @Perilagu_Khan, while I always try to find the best in DAD, the fake holographic make-out session between Bond and MP in the film is just inexcusable. Tamahori stepped in with no idea how previous relationships worked in the series and just went with what he wanted.
  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    Risico007 wrote:
    Quantum of solace is brilliant

    and the Opera Sequence is by far one of the best scene in Bond history.

    the win in Casino Royale eclipses it ever so slightly.

    Not controversial. The Tosca sequence is routinely cited as QOS' shining moment of triumph and as one of the best sequences in Bond.

    As for QOS being brilliant, yes, that's controversial alright, although like every Bond film, it has its defenders.

  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @Perilagu_Khan, while I always try to find the best in DAD, the fake holographic make-out session between Bond and MP in the film is just inexcusable. Tamahori stepped in with no idea how previous relationships worked in the series and just went with what he wanted.

    Yeah, amazing not only how tonedeaf Tami was, but that Micolli allowed this travesty to escape the cutting room floor.

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,964
    I think the best thing to come out of DAD is that a hefty portion of it is a prime example of what NOT to do in a Bond film. Hopefully they never reach such a point again.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    Anyone wanting to criticise MR should first eviscerate YOLT because the grasp of aeronautics in that film is ludicrous. The YOLT rocket wouldnt even get out of the volcano with that amount of thrust.
    That type of spacecraft exists NOW.
    http://www.space.com/23193-spacex-grasshopper-rocket-highest-hop-video.html
    And the lack of thrust you cite is a bad effect only. Digitally added fire & smoke would fix that.
    :D
  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    Creasy47 wrote:
    I think the best thing to come out of DAD is that a hefty portion of it is a prime example of what NOT to do in a Bond film. Hopefully they never reach such a point again.

    Exactly. Counter examples can be just as valuable as examples. Or, as Mathis once said, just because one is dead doesn't mean one can't still be useful.



    :>
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,964
    @Perilagu_Khan, good usage of Mathis' quote. It's true, though, when it comes time to write up a script and hit the drawing board on action sequences and whatnot, just look at what DAD for the most part and avoid that. Don't get me wrong, it still had some great parts: the PTS, Cuba, the sword fight scene, the chase between Bond vs. Zao on the ice, etc. Not all of it, but some.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,268
    Risico007 wrote:
    Quantum of solace is brilliant

    and the Opera Sequence is by far one of the best scene in Bond history.

    the win in Casino Royale eclipses it ever so slightly.

    Agreed very much on that, but then QoS is in my Top 5!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,268
    Creasy47 wrote:
    I thought there was already an "invisible car," which wasn't as something as good as the Aston Martin in DAD, but merely one with a bunch of mirrors all around it to show what's on the other side and hide the car to an extent.

    Yes, that was shown in the Top Gear Bond special last year, I believe. It used screens attached to its sides to sort of mirror its surroundings, but it was nothing like the car in DAD, albeit it used the same theory of technology.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,268
    Perilagu_Khan wrote:
    I agree, DD. And upthread somewhere I believe somebody mentioned Fleming's dictum that the improbable is just fine in a thriller, but the impossible is not. Drax's gambit in the film, while highly improbable, is not, theoretically, impossible. Hence, I have no problem with MR's plot whatsoever. This is Bond, not documentary.

    Drax's Gambit, you say? Read more related stuff on that here:

    http://thebondologistblog.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/kingsley-amis-draxs-gambit-and-reform.html
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Blofeld's death in FYEO was better than his non death in DAF.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,268
    Murdock wrote:
    Blofeld's death in FYEO was better than his non death in DAF.

    I see little controversial in that, @Murdock, although I suppose it was done for comic effect in the PTS of FYEO.
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