Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Posts: 15,114
    This talk about Bond tradition reminded me of an opinion of mine that may be controversial: some of what are considered traditional Bond elements are in fact peripheral additions in no way essential to Bond. For example: the heavy gadgetry, scifi elements and the "one of the Bond girl is evil".
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    "Bond films full of thematic content that act as brilliant and nearly unprecedented character studies on 007 and those in his world."

    There is nothing about this that is a radical departure, let alone is it a facet that deletes Bond icons and traditions. What's more, it harks back to Fleming himself, and no genuine Bond fan can complain about that.

    Oh, I'd say it's quite the departure. There are films like OHMSS, LTK and FRWL that give us an interesting look at Bond and how he ticks, but by and large many of the films are devoid of the kind of thematic devices and poetic filmmaking Skyfall had, or the depth of study the Craig films have paid to the character of James Bond. I think you'd be hard pressed to argue that the Moore era is full of deep and enriching looks into Bond as a man and agent, especially when the film with a more serious tone, FYEO, features less of an interesting or fascinating Bond, and more a hypocrite of galactic proportions. Other films have moments of great potential, like DAD, but throw it all away in the service of an action scene, quip or other ill-advised move, tarnishing that chance of something greater amongst the spectacle. Bond films of this nature are good fun, sure, but hardly something I'd find myself writing a film analyses on, as I have done abundantly for the Craig era.

    The Craig films have simply made me more invested in the character of James Bond than any era has, and his 007 is one I find myself rooting for most of all. The filmmakers have perfectly captured Bond's greatest qualities in a poetic and monumental fashion, like his resolute protection of the realm, dutiful and loyal commitment to his work and insuperable loyalty, strength and vulnerability manifested in equal measures, aspects of his character that haven't been given this kind of sincere dedication and treatment for a long time. While all the films (well, most of them) serve to give us the iconic image of a man with all these qualities, the Craig films have cemented these qualities in an even more symbolic manner, making Bond's title as the protector more apparent than ever before. Watching him run up Whitehall as Tennyson is recited in his celebration, I am overcome with feelings of deep emotion that I have never felt in such a magnitude before towards the character. In just a few minutes Mendes and co. symbolized all that Bond is inside and out, and did so better than a vast majority of the films combined in its poetic tribute, elegance, and heart alone.
  • edited December 2013 Posts: 1,708
    (-I hate YOLT, DAF, DAD, and the Moore era with a passion)

    YOLT is all right on it's own but worst of the 60s , DAF is OK if you cosider it more of a spoof & it helps if you're in a jolly mood when seeing it , Moore era had some good stuff......I still prefer it over Brosnans era any day.

    (-Laz is/always has been an egocentric, self-centered, and misogynistic prick)

    Many stars are like that though.....

    (-The entire Brosnan era is full of missed opportunity)

    Yup.......

    IMO , Conti is better than Brosnan/Craig era soundtracks , more feeling to it.
  • Posts: 12,466
    This seems like a fun thread;

    -Daniel Craig is the best Bond
    -George Lazenby is my third-favorite Bond actor
    -Licence to Kill is better than The Living Daylights, and is a top 10 Bond film
    -Quantum of Solace is a top 10 Bond film
    -Most underrated Bond films: On Her Majesty's Secret Service, The Man with the Golden Gun, Licence to Kill, The World is Not Enough, Quantum of Solace
    -From Russia with Love is the most overrated Bond film
    -Most overrated Bond films: From Russia with Love, Thunderball, For Your Eyes Only, The Living Daylights, Tomorrow Never Dies (not entirely sure about that one, but I know some people who think it's the best of the Brosnan films)
  • Agree with you on Licence to Kill, The Living Daylights, and Thunderball. Other than that, your list certainly lives up to the thread, @FoxRox.
  • Posts: 12,466
    Agree with you on Licence to Kill, The Living Daylights, and Thunderball. Other than that, your list certainly lives up to the thread, @FoxRox.

    Haha well that's the idea isn't it? I think every Bond film has at least a couple controversial opinions about the series that most don't agree with.
  • SuperheroSithSuperheroSith SE London
    Posts: 578
    Thunderball is the worst bond film

    Timothy Dalton has a good sense of comic timing

    Pierce Brosnan is overrated

    Daniel Craig is underrated

    Goldfinger is the worst least good bond song (please don't kill me)

    Moonraker was a good film until the infamous Bondola scene
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,133
    Thunderball is the worst bond film

    Timothy Dalton has a good sense of comic timing

    Pierce Brosnan is overrated

    Daniel Craig is underrated

    Goldfinger is the worst least good bond song (please don't kill me)

    Moonraker was a good film until the infamous Bondola scene

    I don't think there's anything controversial about your thoughts on Brosnan and Craig.
    Timothy Dalton though often regarded as being too serious for Bond does indeed have good comic timing. I think it's merely the fact his Bond films are less humourous. Which is not a bad nor controversial thing.
    I am however perplexed as to why you feel Thunderball is the worst Bond film. Each to their own and all, but I can't say I've ever seen TB at the bottom of any ranking.


  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Thunderball is the worst bond film

    Timothy Dalton has a good sense of comic timing

    Pierce Brosnan is overrated

    Daniel Craig is underrated

    Goldfinger is the worst least good bond song (please don't kill me)

    Moonraker was a good film until the infamous Bondola scene


    25461d1317068660-13b-nb-miata-joker-not-sure-if-serious-jpg
  • Benny wrote:
    Thunderball is the worst bond film

    Timothy Dalton has a good sense of comic timing

    Pierce Brosnan is overrated

    Daniel Craig is underrated

    Goldfinger is the worst least good bond song (please don't kill me)

    Moonraker was a good film until the infamous Bondola scene

    I don't think there's anything controversial about your thoughts on Brosnan and Craig.
    Timothy Dalton though often regarded as being too serious for Bond does indeed have good comic timing. I think it's merely the fact his Bond films are less humourous. Which is not a bad nor controversial thing.
    I am however perplexed as to why you feel Thunderball is the worst Bond film. Each to their own and all, but I can't say I've ever seen TB at the bottom of any ranking.


    And, of course, Goldfinger as the bottom-of-the-barrel Bond title track is totally insupportable.

  • Posts: 15,114
    I don't think Daniel Craig is really underrated either, although some do unfairly criticize him. For the general public, the critics and the fans, he is mostly praised. Unless you think he is not praised enough, this is more an inaccurate than a controversial one. As for Brosnan, he was overrated during his tenure, but not anymore.
  • Posts: 12,466
    To me Brosnan still has his fair share of supporters and haters, at least from what I've seen. He's definitely not my favorite Bond, but he wasn't bad. I feel like Brosnan's biggest problem as Bond was simply that he didn't innovate enough; Connery (naturally), Lazenby, Moore, Dalton, and Craig all made it their own more so I thought.
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 15,114
    FoxRox wrote:
    To me Brosnan still has his fair share of supporters and haters, at least from what I've seen. He's definitely not my favorite Bond, but he wasn't bad. I feel like Brosnan's biggest problem as Bond was simply that he didn't innovate enough; Connery (naturally), Lazenby, Moore, Dalton, and Craig all made it their own more so I thought.

    I pretty much agree with this and many do, hence it is not really controversial. Had someone said after GE or even TND that Brosnan was overrated, then at that time yes it would have been controversial (and I have to admit I would have then disagree with the statement).
  • Posts: 2,402
    Agreed that Dalton has fantastic comedic timing. I've never understood the bollocks criticism that he was bad with the funny bits.
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 12,837
    Pierce Brosnan is overrated

    Daniel Craig is underrated

    Craig is in no way underrated. He gets the praise he deserves and the majority of people (including me), think he's fantastic. You can't say a bad word about him on here and the critics love him.

    Brosnan may have been a tad overrated in the 90s but I think he's underrated now. He gets so much stick from Bond fans now but his version of Bond was just what was needed at the time. Whether you like him or not (personally I thought he was great), the series might not have even survived without Brosnan, and I think lots of people forget that.
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Agreed that Dalton has fantastic comedic timing. I've never understood the bollocks criticism that he was bad with the funny bits.

    He could do humour (my favourite was "Sorry old man, section 26 Paragraph need to know") but was overall bad with the one-liners. How many people honestly smiled at his "dead end" comment in LTK or "he met his Waterloo"?
  • Posts: 12,466
    I'm probably in the minority, but I don't dislike any of the Bond actors thus far. This could even count as a controversial opinion since usually people really dislike either Brosnan, Dalton, or Lazenby or whatever. I like all 6 in different ways, even if they have their flaws.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    BAIN123 wrote:
    How many people honestly smiled at his "dead end" comment in LTK or "he met his Waterloo"?
    *raises hand*
  • FoxRox wrote:
    I'm probably in the minority, but I don't dislike any of the Bond actors thus far. This could even count as a controversial opinion since usually people really dislike either Brosnan, Dalton, or Lazenby or whatever. I like all 6 in different ways, even if they have their flaws.

    Same here. I love them all and I think each one was perfect for the time they were cast.
  • Posts: 11,189
    chrisisall wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    How many people honestly smiled at his "dead end" comment in LTK or "he met his Waterloo"?
    *raises hand*

    Neither convinced me. I thought Dalton was much more effective when he said "whoever she was I must have scarred The Living Daylights out of her". That was a great moment. I never got the feeling Dalton was comfortable with the Moore-esque one liners. Thankfully there weren't too many.
  • Posts: 12,466
    BAIN123 wrote:
    chrisisall wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    How many people honestly smiled at his "dead end" comment in LTK or "he met his Waterloo"?
    *raises hand*

    Neither convinced me. I thought Dalton was much more effective when he said "whoever she was I must have scarred The Living Daylights out of her". That was a great moment. I never got the feeling Dalton was comfortable with the Moore-esque one liners. Thankfully there weren't too many.

    That was a great one! Probably my favorite Dalton line. Most of my favorite Dalton moments though came from Licence to Kill, like when he lights up Sanchez or leaves MI6 for Felix

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    FoxRox wrote:
    I'm probably in the minority, but I don't dislike any of the Bond actors thus far. This could even count as a controversial opinion since usually people really dislike either Brosnan, Dalton, or Lazenby or whatever. I like all 6 in different ways, even if they have their flaws.

    I'm with you on that all the way, @FoxRox! Connery is the one I respect most, Dalton is my favourite. But besides that, I also like what Lazenby, Moore and Brosnan have given us. As for Craig, I think he's a remarkable Bond. See? I can't say anything wrong about any of these guys. ;-)
  • edited January 2014 Posts: 12,466
    DarthDimi wrote:
    FoxRox wrote:
    I'm probably in the minority, but I don't dislike any of the Bond actors thus far. This could even count as a controversial opinion since usually people really dislike either Brosnan, Dalton, or Lazenby or whatever. I like all 6 in different ways, even if they have their flaws.

    I'm with you on that all the way, @FoxRox! Connery is the one I respect most, Dalton is my favourite. But besides that, I also like what Lazenby, Moore and Brosnan have given us. As for Craig, I think he's a remarkable Bond. See? I can't say anything wrong about any of these guys. ;-)

    Agree to agree! Haha I hope the next actor does well too
  • FoxRox wrote:
    I'm probably in the minority, but I don't dislike any of the Bond actors thus far. This could even count as a controversial opinion since usually people really dislike either Brosnan, Dalton, or Lazenby or whatever. I like all 6 in different ways, even if they have their flaws.

    That's a pretty common sentiment. I like to make fun of the Lazenator (probably the consensus worst, although he has his defenders), but he really does well in the fights and the actual heavy acting, like the proposal and Tracy's death.

    Regarding Brosnan and Craig, you might have been right in 2005, but now it's the other way around if anything. Brosnan just can't catch a break and people are saying Craig is superior to Connery (we all have our favorites, but c'mon son, nobody can beat Connery).
  • Posts: 15,114
    The controversial opinion would be someone dissatisfied with ALL Bond actors, or thinking there shouldn't have been films at all.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    I feel like most of the opinions in here are ones that quite a few of us agree with. Here's one, though I'm not sure how to word it: I think that all three of the Craig Bond films are absolutely wonderful, but my least favorite is SF. Granted, all of his three have certain aspects, actors, scenes, lines, etc. that I enjoy over the other two, but in terms of replayability and enjoyment, I think it's CR>QoS>SF. That should do for some controversy.
  • Posts: 12,466
    In response to @Creasy47, I think CR>SF>QoS, but QoS is highly underrated
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Creasy47 wrote:
    in terms of replayability and enjoyment, I think it's CR>QoS>SF. That should do for some controversy.
    No no no- in terms of rewatchability alone, it's QOS>CR>SF.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    @chrisisall, I can understand that. Perhaps in an overall preference, that's my list, but in rewatchability, I agree with that charting.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I don't really enjoy SF from after the moment Bond and M walk into SF manor.
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