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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    WillyGalore wrote:
    MrBond wrote:
    The worst scene in the entire series is the "Circus Circus" in DAF, it is truly cringeworthy and appaling in all kinds of ways. Long scenes of children shooting on balloons with water-pistol and a totally worthless scene where a black woman turns into a gorilla. Yeah, that's suitable for a Bond-film.. That's the only scene in the franchise that i skip over.

    Elvis is one of the best henchmens and is severly underrated.

    QoS are in some aspects better than both CR and SF. And is easily top-5 material.

    Care to elaborate on that one?

    Oh yes.
    Elvis is essential a parody of all the henchmens of old. The thing that sticks out with him is a wig, and a bloody ugly one as well. Come on, he has a wig, he barely says anything and is all around goofy. He's just there as an inside joke to all of us Bond-fans that "this is a guy who's created for us whom re-rewatch the film". Once where when i realized that he were made for the single purpose to be made a fool out of he is quite funny, look at the scenes he's in.

    Tries to act studly and imposing as Camille comes storming down the docks after Greene. She whacks him away and says something to the effect of "Touch me again and I'll break your wrist"

    On the plane with the CIA. He starts the conversation off... or does he? He tries to. He says something to the effect of "So, are we ready?" And Beam doesn't give him the time of day. Completely ignored. As the phone with Bond's picture gets passed around, it finally lands in Elvis' lap. Actually, it get chucked at him.

    At the Opera. He's up there watching the play. Loving it, in fact. He turns to the other guard to share in his appreciation and his gaze is repelled by a face of iron. He turns back to watch the opera dejected but with a face that looks like he might cry from the unearthly beauty of the performance.

    At Greene's party. Of course he takes the headward dive down the stairs. Only to lose his toupee at the bottom of the fall.
    At the exchange between Greene and Medrano. Standing there like a buffoon with his neck collar on.

    His demise: First of all, Greene says nothing. Just puts him in place... like a... PUPPET. Now notice when the flames reach his body...

    THEY BLOW HIS PANTS OFF!

    I kid you not. His pants go flying off with the wave of heat, and for a few frames we see him standing in his fixed position, in tighties, I believe.

    Genius!!!

    Elvis: the epitome of cool, right? How ironic. How very ironic. Thanks Mr. Forster and team.

    If we all could take Elvis as a super-minor character with these small funny scenes, he's a quite funny and memorable henchman!
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited January 2014 Posts: 12,837
    MrBond wrote:
    Elvis is one of the best henchmens and is severly underrated.

    I know you like QOS but cmon. Elvis was a shit character. To say he's one of the best henchmen is insane imo. Even if you find him funny (personally I think there's much funnier stuff in the Bond films than a bloke falling down the stairs), calling him one of the best henchmen is still a stretch.
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    MrBond wrote:
    Elvis is one of the best henchmens and is severly underrated.

    I know you like QOS but cmon. Elvis was a shit character. To say he's one of the best henchmen is insane imo. Even if you find him funny (personally I think there's much funnier stuff in the Bond films than a bloke falling down the stairs), calling him one of the best henchmen is still a stretch.

    I'm not much for Jaws, Mr Wint & Mr Kidd, Stamper, Necros and those. The henchmens is a subject in the Bond-world that have never really tickled my senses. How iconic and amous they are/were.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    So you didn't like Jaws, Oddjob, etc, because they were too iconic? What?
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    So you didn't like Jaws, Oddjob, etc, because they were too iconic? What?

    I really love Oddjob, just to be clear.

    And no, it's not because they are iconic. I can see why Jaws are iconic, and i understand why he have made such an impact but i do not find him anything particulary special. Especially not in MR. I find him and some other of the iconic henchmen a tad overrated.
  • hildebrand_rarityhildebrand_rarity
    Posts: 316
    WillyGalore wrote:
    MrBond wrote:
    The worst scene in the entire series is the "Circus Circus" in DAF, it is truly cringeworthy and appaling in all kinds of ways. Long scenes of children shooting on balloons with water-pistol and a totally worthless scene where a black woman turns into a gorilla. Yeah, that's suitable for a Bond-film.. That's the only scene in the franchise that i skip over.

    Elvis is one of the best henchmens and is severly underrated.

    QoS are in some aspects better than both CR and SF. And is easily top-5 material.

    Care to elaborate on that one?

    While I am usually the first to defend QoS, I would venture to say that Elvis is not a very defendable character
  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    MrBond wrote:
    The worst scene in the entire series is the "Circus Circus" in DAF, it is truly cringeworthy and appaling in all kinds of ways. Long scenes of children shooting on balloons with water-pistol and a totally worthless scene where a black woman turns into a gorilla. Yeah, that's suitable for a Bond-film.. That's the only scene in the franchise that i skip over.

    Elvis is one of the best henchmens and is severly underrated.

    QoS are in some aspects better than both CR and SF. And is easily top-5 material.

    The Circus Circus sequence is sublime. It features genuine hilarity complements of some sly and witty screenwriting, the Benign Bizarre in spades, and gorgeous scoring by Barry as the circus girls twirl through the ether. It is one of my favorite moments in all of Bond.

  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    I just find it out of place and it strays too far from the acceptable line in James Bond films.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    I really enjoy the atmosphere of the scene but there are also some not so great moments, to put it kindly. The way Felix squeaks out his "mouse with sneakers" line is really grating. In the end though it's DAF so I don't get too worked up over it. It would be more out of place if it popped up in OHMSS for example.
  • 00130013
    edited January 2014 Posts: 1,817
    The Circus Circus sequence it's when I realize the movie is going downhill. Even with the lousy ending, without that sequence DAF could have been much, much better.
  • Risico007Risico007
    Posts: 9,846
    Diamonds are forever was a great book that if properly adapted for Craig (updating a few elements) would make a great bond 24...


    Also am I the only one who is genuinely excited to see the Fiennes Craig relationship in bond 24.


    Also had a dalton joined in OHMSS and stayed till license to kill the films would of been dark strong thrillers that would have fit right along side films like the French connection and China syndrome.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Not too sure about that. The Bond movies have a track record of taking some truly great actors and turning them into jokes in many instances over the years.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited January 2014 Posts: 14,568
    Risico007 wrote:
    Also am I the only one who is genuinely excited to see the Fiennes Craig relationship in bond 24.
    You're definitely not alone. In fact, I'm still wrapping my head around the awesome fact that Fiennes is the new M.
  • scheeversscheevers
    Posts: 4
    FoxRox wrote:
    -Daniel Craig is the best Bond
    -Quantum of Solace is a top 10 Bond film

    Is this still Controversial opinion anymore that Craig has given the best bond performances since Connery's early Bond films, He got nommed for Best Actor at the Bafta's for his portrayal of Bond in Casino Royale, which is a amazing feat in itself. The man has yet to deliver a bad performance and has given Bond back that cool edge that's been lacking since Connery's early films.

    QOS is hugely underrated film, it annoys me to see it on the most disappointing films lists from film magazines cause i think it's a flawed but great Bond film that took risks, Craig is brilliant in it and it has some amazing set pieces and a dark heart lacking in many Bond films.

    Here's some of my own Controversial opinions

    - I love darker tone Bond films less Moore era more Dalton and Craig era Bonds for me in the future please.

    - Casino Royale was the best Bond film since Goldfinger

    - LTK would have been a awesome film if they kept Pam Bouvier more of a kick ass character instead of a damsel in distress in the end.

    - I can't stand many of Roger Moore Bond films too silly and tongue in cheek for my liking

    - I love the third act of Skyfall, shows why Bond is awesome. Instead of winning cause of Gadgets and crap like that. Just him and his wits.

    - Dalton is nowhere near the best Bond, he's underrated and deserves more respect but best Bond, no sorry.



  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    Posts: 2,402
    My biggest issue with Skyfall is the whole "you're so damn old, Bond, just retire" crap that's spewed throughout it. What's it gonna be by the time Bond 25 rolls around? Craig's third film was much, much too soon to bring the character's age into it. It really bothers me when CR/QoS was what preceded it, where Bond just became a 00.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,114
    MrBond wrote:
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    So you didn't like Jaws, Oddjob, etc, because they were too iconic? What?

    I really love Oddjob, just to be clear.

    And no, it's not because they are iconic. I can see why Jaws are iconic, and i understand why he have made such an impact but i do not find him anything particulary special. Especially not in MR. I find him and some other of the iconic henchmen a tad overrated.

    I like QOS and rate it much higher than most people here, but I'd never thought Elvis is a great henchman. Underrated, maybe, more a way to introduce benign bizarre elements to Greene, by procuration so to speak, but by himself not really great. That said: 1)kudos for saying smtg very controversial and 2)I would agree that Jaws is overrated. He is Elvis with more teeth and resilience.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited January 2014 Posts: 17,789
    StirredNotShaken wrote:
    Craig's third film was much, much too soon to bring the character's age into it.
    I agree. I mean it's not like they had a "15 years later" thing at the beginning to say a LOT of time had passed since QOS...
  • 002002
    Posts: 581
    MrBond wrote:

    Elvis is one of the best henchmens and is severly underrated.

    QoS are in some aspects better than both CR and SF. And is easily top-5 material.


  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    MrBond wrote:

    QoS are in some aspects better than both CR and SF.
    I agree. I have watched QOS WAY more times than SF or even CR.
  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    scheevers wrote:
    FoxRox wrote:
    -Daniel Craig is the best Bond
    -Quantum of Solace is a top 10 Bond film

    Is this still Controversial opinion anymore that Craig has given the best bond performances since Connery's early Bond films, He got nommed for Best Actor at the Bafta's for his portrayal of Bond in Casino Royale, which is a amazing feat in itself. The man has yet to deliver a bad performance and has given Bond back that cool edge that's been lacking since Connery's early films.

    QOS is hugely underrated film, it annoys me to see it on the most disappointing films lists from film magazines cause i think it's a flawed but great Bond film that took risks, Craig is brilliant in it and it has some amazing set pieces and a dark heart lacking in many Bond films.

    Here's some of my own Controversial opinions

    - I love darker tone Bond films less Moore era more Dalton and Craig era Bonds for me in the future please.

    - Casino Royale was the best Bond film since Goldfinger

    - LTK would have been a awesome film if they kept Pam Bouvier more of a kick ass character instead of a damsel in distress in the end.

    - I can't stand many of Roger Moore Bond films too silly and tongue in cheek for my liking

    - I love the third act of Skyfall, shows why Bond is awesome. Instead of winning cause of Gadgets and crap like that. Just him and his wits.

    - Dalton is nowhere near the best Bond, he's underrated and deserves more respect but best Bond, no sorry.



    All run-of-the-mill opinions in these parts. Your only mildly controversial opinion is that QOS is hugely underrated, and then only because of the adjective "hugely."

  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    StirredNotShaken wrote:
    My biggest issue with Skyfall is the whole "you're so damn old, Bond, just retire" crap that's spewed throughout it. What's it gonna be by the time Bond 25 rolls around? Craig's third film was much, much too soon to bring the character's age into it. It really bothers me when CR/QoS was what preceded it, where Bond just became a 00.

    Yeah I did think it was weird how we went straight from rookie Bond to old, burnt out Bond.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,114
    Thinking about Elvis, he may have been an Underrated character, or an underused one, but I cannot say he was much of an henchman, let alone an Underrated one. For me he was more of a faithful lackey.
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    Ludovico wrote:
    Thinking about Elvis, he may have been an Underrated character, or an underused one, but I cannot say he was much of an henchman, let alone an Underrated one. For me he was more of a faithful lackey.

    The backstory of Elvis is (as many of you know) that he was Greene's cousin who was a orphan and thus were picked up from the street out of loyalty to go around the world with Greene. And as Greene's official image isn't being a villain per se but a philanthropist make Elvis not an henchman by the words right meaning in the context of the film.

    There is much content with Elvis that were removed in the final cut though. A scene where he dances at the middle of the dance floor alone at Greene's party and some scenes where we got to know Elvis inept with guns. Hence why Greene helps Elvis with pointing the gun at the climax of the film.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    QoS although cobbled together from a screenplay perspective is incredibly flawed, I think it could have gotten away with it a lot more had the editing not been so horrendous. I'll go as far to venture out that the shaky cam wasn't even an issue but using that filming approach with the lightning speed-chop editing, the film really suffered. Had Baird edited QoS it would probably get more replay value than both CR and SF, especially as it's a well-paced film too.
  • WillyGaloreWillyGalore
    Posts: 6,396
    doubleoego wrote:
    QoS although cobbled together from a screenplay perspective is incredibly flawed, I think it could have gotten away with it a lot more had the editing not been so horrendous. I'll go as far to venture out that the shaky cam wasn't even an issue but using that filming approach with the lightning speed-chop editing, the film really suffered. Had Baird edited QoS it would probably get more replay value than both CR and SF, especially as it's a well-paced film too.

    Regarding editing, this interview with Mark Kermode and Neil Brand is quite interesting.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/markkermode/posts/What-Makes-Gravity-So-Great
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,114
    MrBond wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Thinking about Elvis, he may have been an Underrated character, or an underused one, but I cannot say he was much of an henchman, let alone an Underrated one. For me he was more of a faithful lackey.

    The backstory of Elvis is (as many of you know) that he was Greene's cousin who was a orphan and thus were picked up from the street out of loyalty to go around the world with Greene. And as Greene's official image isn't being a villain per se but a philanthropist make Elvis not an henchman by the words right meaning in the context of the film.

    There is much content with Elvis that were removed in the final cut though. A scene where he dances at the middle of the dance floor alone at Greene's party and some scenes where we got to know Elvis inept with guns. Hence why Greene helps Elvis with pointing the gun at the climax of the film.

    Elvis would have worked much better had they told his backstory and had Greene been also accompanied by a classical muscleman. I'm all for inept people in a large organisation, you have some of them anyway that stay in for whatever reasons, but Greene would have needed another right hand man to balance things out.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Ludovico wrote:
    and had Greene been also accompanied by a classical muscleman.
    The cool thing was that Greene was surprisingly physically capable! Didn't see THAT coming!
  • hildebrand_rarityhildebrand_rarity
    Posts: 316
    StirredNotShaken wrote:
    My biggest issue with Skyfall is the whole "you're so damn old, Bond, just retire" crap that's spewed throughout it. What's it gonna be by the time Bond 25 rolls around? Craig's third film was much, much too soon to bring the character's age into it. It really bothers me when CR/QoS was what preceded it, where Bond just became a 00.

    Another one of my laundry list of complaints about SF!

  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    Ludovico wrote:
    MrBond wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Thinking about Elvis, he may have been an Underrated character, or an underused one, but I cannot say he was much of an henchman, let alone an Underrated one. For me he was more of a faithful lackey.

    The backstory of Elvis is (as many of you know) that he was Greene's cousin who was a orphan and thus were picked up from the street out of loyalty to go around the world with Greene. And as Greene's official image isn't being a villain per se but a philanthropist make Elvis not an henchman by the words right meaning in the context of the film.

    There is much content with Elvis that were removed in the final cut though. A scene where he dances at the middle of the dance floor alone at Greene's party and some scenes where we got to know Elvis inept with guns. Hence why Greene helps Elvis with pointing the gun at the climax of the film.

    Elvis would have worked much better had they told his backstory and had Greene been also accompanied by a classical muscleman. I'm all for inept people in a large organisation, you have some of them anyway that stay in for whatever reasons, but Greene would have needed another right hand man to balance things out.

    Well in a way, Greene got the brown-eyed man who seems to do the killing.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    MrBond wrote:
    Elvis is one of the best henchmens and is severly underrated.

    I know you like QOS but cmon. Elvis was a shit character. To say he's one of the best henchmen is insane imo. Even if you find him funny (personally I think there's much funnier stuff in the Bond films than a bloke falling down the stairs), calling him one of the best henchmen is still a stretch.

    well he did give a lengthy detailed argument as to why he has this opinion, so give him his due.
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