TMWTGG better then I remembered!

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  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    actonsteve wrote:
    [

    Errrrr no thanks. QOS had pathetic and horrible locations, too many of them and not enough ground visited in each of them.

    a.

    Horrible? Whats horrible about the The Palio in Siena? The floating opera house in Bregenz? The stunning deserts of Bolivia?

    Horrible? The colours of the South American deserts are a character in their own right. And you can almost smell the roasting cuyo on the streets of La Paz. If you mean by horrible they were a little down at heel ie Port au Prince and La Paz. Well, Bond has always gone to rough parts of the world ie Kingston and Istanbul. Harlem and Rio are pretty gritty as well.

    I hope I don't take this into a QOS thread as I started it as a TMWTGG discussion but minus the shaky camera scenes QOS is probably the most beautifully shot Bond movie ever! I'm hoping Deakins will surpass this with Skyfall but say what you will about QOS, but it looks stunning in the screen!

    Great cinematography, but very poor locations... and too many of them, so they were poorly used too.

  • Posts: 1,492
    I am not going to turn this into a QoS thread as it is the same character biting its ankles again.

    Perhaps as he gets older he will appreciate its qualities.
  • Posts: 1,497
    We live in an age when films like TMWTGG aren't accepted at the moment. Campy, colorful, over-the-top, 'just for fun' films are just not in vogue at the present time.

    It doesn't help that there are hundreds of Internet bloggers, forum users who think they know it all (my self included). Films get analyzed to shreds and lose their fun. Unless a film has a completely water proof plot, it's a piece of crap. Unless a film is dark, cerebral, introspective (basically a Christopher Nolan film), it's considered a joke. Yet, the imagination and heart that went into the film is completely ignored. I think the age of "lists" hurts films like Golden Gun as well. Everyone has a top 10, a best of list...Why can't we enjoy all Bond films? Internet lists have not been kind to early 70's Bond films, including Golden Gun, so a mob-mentality surrounds these films, and some 'consensus' is made up that doesn't mean anything to suggest that Golden Gun is bad film. Rubbish I say.

    By today's Christopher Nolan/Best films of the Century/Youtube film critics standards, The Man With the Golden Gun is not a good film. But who cares? I have a lot of fun with it everytime I see it, and no internet blogeratti is going to change that.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited March 2012 Posts: 15,718
    JBFan626 wrote:
    Youtube film critics

    Most people who comment on youtube, be it to praise Nolan and Zimmer, or to ask for 'green thumbs' or to follow the youtube mob-mentality, should be shot in front of their friends and families. Seriously, watching a film trailer on youtube is a misery when you can't help but read what idiocies are written in the video comments. Youtube shouldn't allow video comments. The youtube community, or should I say the 'idiots clan' is a joke.


  • edited March 2012 Posts: 4,813
    You know I may be due for a fresh viewing of TMWTGG myself. As it stands, it's my least favorite by Moore (but not out of all the Bond movies)
    I remember the biggest irritation was the annoying music-- 'The Man With the Golden Gun' theme song was everywhere in the movie, from a slowed down background music, to a fast paced chase theme, to even the freaking piano in Scaramanga's 'western' section of his maze. I got sick of hearing the same damn music throughout the entire movie and it tends to put me to sleep- similar to the overuse of the saxophone in NSNA.
    But as I'm off today, I think I'll give it a shot. It has been a few years.
  • There's always time for a quick watch of The Man With The Golden Gun. As a child, I remember loving this film the most, and being more than a little scared of Scaramanga and his fun house. It's still a nostalgic favourite (as is LALD for similar reasons). There are plenty of nice Bond moments throughout the film. Plenty for the Bond fan to dip into every now and again, and revisit.

    In retrospect it was probably rushed out a bit too soon, and would have greatly benefited from an extra year of preparation and production. It isn't in my top 5 or anything, but I don't see why any Bond fan would have a horror of The Man With The Golden Gun, and some seem to.

    As Lulu sang over the end credits:

    Goodnight, goodnight,
    Sleep well my dear
    No need to fear
    James Bond is here

    It has touches of Fleming, and for all the bits you might not like, it is a genuine, recognisable, James Bond film, with many of the classic team in place and doing their thing.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    TMWTGG was the end of an era, when Saltzman left.... IMO this is the final film with the utterly Flemingesque 'benign bizarre' aspect... it seems that when Saltzman left, the franchise lost a part of its magic...
  • Posts: 1,497
    I remember the biggest irritation was the annoying music-- 'The Man With the Golden Gun' theme song was everywhere in the movie, from a slowed down background music, to a fast paced chase theme, to even the freaking piano in Scaramanga's 'western' section of his maze.

    You have a point there, though I kind of like the 'western' section. It's a fun little touch. I think the current composers could learn a thing or to about repeating a 'theme' throughout the soundtrack.

  • Posts: 1,548
    I,m sure DaltonCraig007 is really Sir Roger Moore under pseudomyn with all this love for MWGG! Best Bond film ever? Not even the best Bond film that Sheriff JW Pepper appeared let only Moore. Still I applaud your loyalty to the man!
  • JBFan626 wrote:
    We live in an age when films like TMWTGG aren't accepted at the moment. Campy, colorful, over-the-top, 'just for fun' films are just not in vogue at the present time.

    It doesn't help that there are hundreds of Internet bloggers, forum users who think they know it all (my self included). Films get analyzed to shreds and lose their fun. Unless a film has a completely water proof plot, it's a piece of crap. Unless a film is dark, cerebral, introspective (basically a Christopher Nolan film), it's considered a joke. Yet, the imagination and heart that went into the film is completely ignored. I think the age of "lists" hurts films like Golden Gun as well. Everyone has a top 10, a best of list...Why can't we enjoy all Bond films? Internet lists have not been kind to early 70's Bond films, including Golden Gun, so a mob-mentality surrounds these films, and some 'consensus' is made up that doesn't mean anything to suggest that Golden Gun is bad film. Rubbish I say.

    By today's Christopher Nolan/Best films of the Century/Youtube film critics standards, The Man With the Golden Gun is not a good film. But who cares? I have a lot of fun with it everytime I see it, and no internet blogeratti is going to change that.

    Wow, that perfectly sums up my feelings about not only the bond series, but people making fun of movies in general.

    The internet has given people an outlet to voice they're opinions but the overall mob mentality of internet bloggers and reviewers has gotten to the point of being bitterly angry at everything. Be it movies, games or music; there's someone out there ready to say that it's absolute horseshit, an abomination of mankind and that you're stupid for liking it. The fact that art and entertainment are subjective has seemingly been lost. (for instance, I don't think inception is that dark, cerebral or smart as it wants you think it is but I'm perfectly fine with people liking the movie)

    As for TMWTGG, I enjoy the hell out of it too. Love the locations, Scaramanga, Nic Nac, Moore, Maud Adams, Scaramangas lair and the overall "look" of the movie. It's hard to describe but TMWTGG just has that charm about it that works. The negatives (Nic Nac fighting bond, karate school, Peppers shenanigans and goodnights bumbliness) detract it from being a great bond movie but it's still a good, fun and charming 70s romp.

  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    LeChiffre wrote:
    I,m sure DaltonCraig007 is really Sir Roger Moore under pseudomyn with all this love for MWGG! Best Bond film ever? Not even the best Bond film that Sheriff JW Pepper appeared let only Moore. Still I applaud your loyalty to the man!

    I don't know if I should be honoured of you saying I am Roger Moore, or if I should feel insulted that you think a common mortal can be compared to Sir Roger Moore... but thanks anyway !! ;)
  • Posts: 1,407
    ^ Moore has gone on record saying that his favorite film of his was TSWLM so no way DC could be him :D. I wonder what Moore thinks of TMWTGG compared to his other films
  • bondbat007 wrote:
    ^ Moore has gone on record saying that his favorite film of his was TSWLM so no way DC could be him :D. I wonder what Moore thinks of TMWTGG compared to his other films

    I believe in the dvd commentary for TMWTGG he refers to it being a "fine entry to the bond series" or something close to that.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    "A good second film for me" are his exact words at the end of the track. I only know this as I watched them not so long ago.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited March 2012 Posts: 4,399
    actonsteve wrote:
    I first saw TMWTGG in 1980 on a double bill with LALD. In 1980 it cost a thousand pounds to fly to Australia. Greece and Spain were the furthest you went on holiday. Florida was beginning to make an appearance (LakerAir anyone?) but the Far East was truly a dream destination. There was an element of no-go there. Vietnam had just finished, China was communist, Suharto was being a bitch in Indonesia, Cambodia had just got over Pol Pot and Hong Kong was surrounded by an increasingly hostile peoples republic of China.

    Therefore Thailand and Hong Kong WERE big exotic destinations. For this small child brought up in an English village seeing the rock karsts of Phang Nga Bay, the Portuguese port of Macao and the floating markets of Bangkok was mindblowing. The locations were a highlight of the film.

    It may not seem it nowadays when Vietnam is on The Amazing Race and the next door neighbour has seen Angkor Wat in Cambodia...but back then the Far East, because it was so inaccessible WAS exotic.

    That why I put the locations of TMWTGG up there with QoS, YOLT and MR as the best in the series

    in that context, i can understand where you're coming from... having not grown up in that generation (born in 1984) i missed all of that...

    but even with that said, i can still admire the locations in DN, FRWL, TB, YOLT and OHMSS - all had some stunning, beautiful locations.... TMWTGG just didn't do it for me like so many of the other Bond movies did...
    JBFan626 wrote:
    We live in an age when films like TMWTGG aren't accepted at the moment. Campy, colorful, over-the-top, 'just for fun' films are just not in vogue at the present time.

    It doesn't help that there are hundreds of Internet bloggers, forum users who think they know it all (my self included). Films get analyzed to shreds and lose their fun. Unless a film has a completely water proof plot, it's a piece of crap. Unless a film is dark, cerebral, introspective (basically a Christopher Nolan film), it's considered a joke. Yet, the imagination and heart that went into the film is completely ignored. I think the age of "lists" hurts films like Golden Gun as well. Everyone has a top 10, a best of list...Why can't we enjoy all Bond films? Internet lists have not been kind to early 70's Bond films, including Golden Gun, so a mob-mentality surrounds these films, and some 'consensus' is made up that doesn't mean anything to suggest that Golden Gun is bad film. Rubbish I say.

    By today's Christopher Nolan/Best films of the Century/Youtube film critics standards, The Man With the Golden Gun is not a good film. But who cares? I have a lot of fun with it everytime I see it, and no internet blogeratti is going to change that.

    firstly - let me say, that i can sit down at any moment and watch any Bond movie - it just depends on the mood i am in - i appreciate them all - even the awful ones have some redeeming quality to them.... i don't look for waterproof plots, i am willing to suspend disbelief, but not always for the sake of reason mind you - my disbelief has it limits (DAD sorely tested those)... i reflect no one's opinion but my own - as a grown man.... i share my opinions not to put others down, or engage in mob like slander on a film.... but just to discuss and share.... we all have our reasons for liking the films we do - it's interesting to hear where others come from (without getting hostile that is)... i am not perfect, but i try to respect those standards i set for myself.... now then....

    what annoys me with TMWTGG, is it's torn between what type of film it wants to be - you say it's campy, and yes a lot is.. but this film also tries to be a little darker and more serious at times... and IMO that is a formula for disaster..... DAF is a pure camp Bond film, and really nothing is played too seriously throughout the entire film.... TMWTGG however keeps teetering between the serious and the fun - which in turns makes the film plod along.. it can't build up momentum one way or the other, because it doesn't know which direction to go.. it just ends up stuck in this bizarre middle - where Roger slaps a woman, threatens her and nearly breaks her arm, and then later on dons a fake nipple and grabs a sumo's ass cheeks....

    but in the end, could i sit down and watch TMWTGG, of course, it's a Bond movie... it wouldn't be my first choice, but i could sit down and enjoy it on some level - but that doesn't mean i don't take issue or gloss over the things that are wrong with it...
  • Posts: 11,189
    The locations for me are fine and In fact some are really good.(Actonsteve has provided a good insight) But sometimes the film has that drab "early 70s" look which kind of dates it for me a bit.

    I'm with haserot in that, while the locations in GG are impressive, rio in MR, Egypt in TSWLM, Switzerland in OHMSS, the Bahamas in TB and CR and Istanbull in FRWL are more so.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    TMWTGG has a lot going for it.

    That said, it's overall one of the weaker Bonds IMO. Rushed into production, it's clear to me that this film deserves credit for at least giving us what we got but in terms of story / script, the film lacks and leaks everywhere. As for their sense of humour, it doesn't resonate well with mine. ;-)
  • Posts: 4,762
    I thought so too the last time I watched it, though it's still not a favorite. Nevertheless, I really did enjoy it and thought it was much better than my last viewing. The locations were extremely colorful, the action in some places was very entertaining, and Roger and Christopher give top notch performances.
  • edited March 2012 Posts: 1,497
    HASEROT wrote:
    DAF is a pure camp Bond film, and really nothing is played too seriously throughout the entire film.... TMWTGG however keeps teetering between the serious and the fun

    I always thought DAF had even more polarity between serious and fun. We have Mrs. Whistler's body being pulled from the canal, Bond inside a coffin nearly cremated, Plenty's body in the pool. But yet we also have the Moon Buggy, Kidd and Wint's humor (their humor in itself cobmines evil and humor), Blofeld's wit, Bambi and Thumper, and I could go on. This combination of danger and humor is a hallmark of Guy Hamilton's Bond films. Take LALD, which has several kills throughout and menacing situations, but also has lots of high camp: Pepper, Baron Samedi, etc., or GF with duck hat, Odd Job decapitating the statue, but then also gassing the gangsters and the death-by-car compacting scene. I think there are plenty of 'danger' scenes in Golden Gun: Scaramanga killing HiFat, Andrea's death. It's all this benign bizarre, that really works.

    As for the locations in Gun, I think they're great. Sure, they are not as breathtaking as the Bahamas or the Swiss Alps, but we've had much worse and certainly less exotic: Azerbaijan, Haiti, Bolivia, San Francisco, St. Petersburg...
  • Posts: 1,548
    Would actually love Dan Craig to take on a modern version of Scaramanga who maybe works for Al-Q-qaeda/Quantum etc.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    LeChiffre wrote:
    Would actually love Dan Craig to take on a modern version of Scaramanga who maybe works for Al-Q-qaeda/Quantum etc.

    ^ There is a fan-soundtrack on youtube, that pretty much gives you the idea what Daniel Craig would be like in TMWTGG. It's Called "The Golden Bullet" by Rich Douglas.
  • Posts: 5,634
    Some important factors of why The Man with the Golden Gun works for me


    #1 Moore at a time playing it with a degree of seriousness

    #2 Christopher Lee as main Bond adversary

    #3 Clifton James return (seriously)

    #4 Some exotic locations

    #5 Lulu gives us a vibrant and energetic soundtrack

    #6 Bernard Lee as M in a part with more room to roam

    #7 Lots of action to indulge in

    #8 The Scaramanga hideaway Island and funhouse interior

    #9 Some great humor along the way

    #10 Moore in the role at a time when he still looked appropriate and actually contributed greatly to an overall very good release



    Yes there are some negatives also without question to this 1974 Bond epic but let's focus on the good points for now, more of those than bad ones without question
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