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AVTAK - too soon for Dalton?

identigraphidentigraph
edited March 2012 in Actors Posts: 1,052
I know a lot of people here would loved to have seen Timbo make his debut with AVTAK. It is clear that Cubby/EON were keen on Dalton and Brosnan for the role with the eventual casting for the TLD. I have always assumed that Rog was in AVTAK because the replacement they wanted was not available and they had to make a film every two years.

I was just wondering to myself imagine if they had re-cast for AVTAK, if Dalton was not available at this time, perhaps he would never have played the role at all!?
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Comments

  • darren_blacksmithdarren_blacksmith
    Posts: 678
    It didn't feel like it was written with Dalton in mind. Does anyone know if there was an earlier script that was geared more towards Dalton or Brosnan?

  • BondWillReturnBondWillReturn
    Posts: 816
    darren_blacksmith wrote:
    It didn't feel like it was written with Dalton in mind. Does anyone know if there was an earlier script that was geared more towards Dalton or Brosnan?

    If there is, I'd love to read that!

  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    edited March 2012 Posts: 4,813
    identigraph wrote:
    I have always assumed that Rog was in AVTAK because the replacement they wanted was not available and they had to make a film every two years.

    I sure hope it was more to it than that- I hate when they force a movie out when they're not ready (QOS would be another big offender)

    *Edit- what was Dalton doing in 1984/85 that kept him so damn busy?? I just checked his imdb page and there wasn't a whole lot going on. Jane Eyre probably took a lot of time, being a whole series, but that was 1983. I see ' Mistral's Daughter' in 1984- never heard of that one. Maybe he was tied up with stage work.
    Sure would have been nice to see Dalton one movie early.
  • identigraphidentigraph
    Posts: 1,052
    I can remember hearing on one of special features of one of 80's films that the studio (U/A) I think wanted a film every two years, so there was a strict timeline (due to financial troubles I think).

    I don't know the facts so I am only assuming that's why Rog made AVTAK but maybe they genuinley wanted to keep him on?
  • 007RogerMoore007RogerMoore
    Posts: 1,082
    Moore was so good so they kept him for as long as they could. After that almost everybody though he had to quit.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited March 2012 Posts: 15,718
    From what I gather, there were actor searches before every new film after MR. And each time the crops were dry, so EON had to sign Moore a 1-off contract in '81, '83 and '85. It wasn't until '86 that they found 2 solid replacements in the persons of Tim and Pierce... but alarm bells were surely ringing in EON HQ when neither of them were available for TLD. I'm pretty sure that if both were busy, Moore would have been asked for an eight outing... but as it were, Dalton was available for TLD, so they signed him.

    I'm sure Moore could have made his 8 outings, even possibly a 9th in '89 right before the hiatus, if the Bond search had come dry in '87.
  • 007RogerMoore007RogerMoore
    Posts: 1,082
    I have also heard the theory that Cubby and Moore decided to do AVTAK because of happines due to the fact that OP beat NSNA. For the first time ever, Moore was the prefered Bond.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    007RogerMoore wrote:
    I have also heard the theory that Cubby and Moore decided to do AVTAK because of happines due to the fact that OP beat NSNA. For the first time ever, Moore was the prefered Bond.

    NSNA beat both Dalton outings, so it really seems Dalton was not very popular.... before Pierce it's as if the public only accepted Sean and Rog as Bond.
  • 007RogerMoore007RogerMoore
    edited March 2012 Posts: 1,082
    I´ve also heard that during LTK, movie goers were interviewed about Bond. Most said that they disliked Dalton and bemoaned the retirement of Moore. I feel sorry for Dalton, he was good but he had to follow the real Bond.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    Moore up until 1989? :-O No, I think 1985 was the end of the line for Moore. They had enough candidates to choose from. And it was never a case of both Dalton and Brosnan being unavailable at the same time. When Dalton was unavailable to take on the role, it was then offered to Brosnan, but during the time Brosnan acepted then was later forced to let it go, Dalton was free. Plus there's the other contenders like Sam Neill (whom apparantly impressed everyone but the one person that really counted, Cubby), Lambert Wilson etc etc...

    I could see Dalton taking on the role a film earlier, though not necessarily from Moore whom I think never should have been cast as Bond. Instead I would have preferred Dalton to have stayed on into the 1990's, with James Purefoy taking over in 2000.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    Major, I never said they were unavailable at the same time... I just said that IF neither of them could have done TLD, I'm convinced Moore would have done the film.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited March 2012 Posts: 13,978
    No, but you did say:
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    but alarm bells were surely ringing in EON HQ when neither of them were available for TLD.

    So could you expand on that?

    And I honestly don't think Moore was coming back after AVTAK. He knew he was way past his prime, and EON would have gone for someone else, if not the frontrunners of Dalton or Brosnan, then it could have been one of the many other actors that were tested.

  • 007RogerMoore007RogerMoore
    Posts: 1,082
    MajorDSmythe wrote:
    I could see Dalton taking on the role a film earlier, though not necessarily from Moore whom I think never should have been cast as Bond. Instead I would have preferred Dalton to have stayed on into the 1990's, with James Purefoy taking over in 2000.

    Though I respect your opinion, I think it would be a shame not to have Bond Moore or Brosnan as Bond.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    MajorDSmythe wrote:
    Moore up until 1989? :-O No, I think 1985 was the end of the line for Moore. They had enough candidates to choose from. And it was never a case of both Dalton and Brosnan being unavailable at the same time. When Dalton was unavailable to take on the role, it was then offered to Brosnan, but during the time Brosnan acepted then was later forced to let it go, Dalton was free. Plus there's the other contenders like Sam Neill (whom apparantly impressed everyone but the one person that really counted, Cubby), Lambert Wilson etc etc...

    I could see Dalton taking on the role a film earlier, though not necessarily from Moore whom I think never should have been cast as Bond. Instead I would have preferred Dalton to have stayed on into the 1990's, with James Purefoy taking over in 2000.

    NOOOO!!!!!!! ;)
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    I think Dalton could have done AVTAK, but they'd have to change the film to suit him.

    I've said before, I would've liked moore to retire after FYEO, but I would've liked him to still do octopussy, except in 1977.

    Then Dalton takes over and in 1983 does TLD, then 2 years later LTK, and he does another film every 2 years then he finally retires after goldeneye. Brosnan starts of with TND, then does all his films along with 2 more in 2004 and 2006, then craig takes over for CR.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    MajorDSmythe wrote:
    No, but you did say:
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    but alarm bells were surely ringing in EON HQ when neither of them were available for TLD.

    So could you expand on that?

    Well Dalton was approached first, but couldn't due to his stage work, then they contacted Brosnan, but he couldn't get out of Steel... I think just at that moment the bells were ringing, because both seemed unavailable... and then Dalton was able to do it. Maybe it's just my view on things, but I think that EON did maybe freak out when Brosnan turned down too... but maybe it's just a very minor incident.

  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    I've always thought Brosnan was approached first, then Dalton. Was Dalton wanted to begin with? That's news to me.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    Roger Moore did fine in AVTAK and together with Patrick MacNee he made something special. I doubt very much that the movie was written with Dalton/Brosnan in mind. It has Moore all over it.
  • identigraphidentigraph
    Posts: 1,052
    I wasn't suggesting that the film was written for Dalton, I just think with Rog's age, they must have been thinking about a new actor and I just wonder if this was seriously considered for AVTAK or if they always planned to ask Moore back.
  • 007RogerMoore007RogerMoore
    Posts: 1,082
    Moore was contracted early on, if I remember correctly. Much sooner than before OP.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    identigraph wrote:
    I wasn't suggesting that the film was written for Dalton, I just think with Rog's age, they must have been thinking about a new actor and I just wonder if this was seriously considered for AVTAK or if they always planned to ask Moore back.

    I think it was Roger Moore and nobody else this time and I read somewhere that both he and Cubby had decided together that this would be last one. I do not think there was anybody else in the picture for this movie, just as there was nobody for Octopussy. In that it was Roger Moore vs Sean Connery in NSNA.

  • 007RogerMoore007RogerMoore
    Posts: 1,082
    It was good that they did NSNA just when they did. Otherwise Moore would likely have been replaced by James Brolin.
  • identigraphidentigraph
    Posts: 1,052
    Apparently Brolin had a Bond parody role in PeeWee's Big Adventure, anybody seen it?
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    identigraph wrote:
    Apparently Brolin had a Bond parody role in PeeWee's Big Adventure, anybody seen it?

    Why would anybody admit to seeing that????

    :D
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    Oh I saw it-- he pretty much played James Bond but with a beard and a RED bow tie (it was supposed to be a tough movie version of Pee-Wee)
    He wasn't bad, but I would certainly hope that if he WAS cast as Bond for real, he would have used an accent. In his Bond auditions, I don't think he looked half bad-- just when he spoke it was completely American.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    Samuel001 wrote:
    I've always thought Brosnan was approached first, then Dalton. Was Dalton wanted to begin with? That's news to me.

    Dalton was offered TLD first, but had allready commited to Brenda Starr, it's at that point that Bond was then offered to Brosnan.

    As for AVTAK, I think that with Moore still officially Bond, it was written for him. Had Dalton taken over for AVTAK, I think there would have been a number of changes to the film. I must admit that the thought of Dalton's Bond going up against Walken's Zorrin does intrigue me somewhat. :-? At the very least, it would have made the final fight a level playing field, physically. Loose Grace Jones & Tanya Robets and promote Fullerton to main Bond Girl and the film would be on it's way to being a vastly improved AVTAK.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    Improve AVTAK ? By Jove! it's perfect as it is !
  • 007RogerMoore007RogerMoore
    Posts: 1,082
    AVTAK is number 4 on my top-22 at the moment. I used to rank it at fifth place, but I now like it more than OP.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    007RogerMoore wrote:
    AVTAK is number 4 on my top-22 at the moment. I used to rank it at fifth place, but I now like it more than OP.

    I prefer OP.

  • 007RogerMoore007RogerMoore
    Posts: 1,082
    I really love the part in India, but the german part, while good, doesn´t stand up as well. It´s one of the better movies, though, no doubt.
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