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AVTAK - too soon for Dalton?

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  • actonsteveactonsteve
    edited March 2012 Posts: 1,492
    As much as I love AVTAK and as much as I love the Daltonator. Both would have been wrong for each other.

    AVTAK is a traditional formulaic Bond. No acting required. They just needed a very charismatic leading man to reel off the oneliners. Connery or Brosnan would have been fine.

    Dalton and Craig need more not less. There would have been nothing for them to get their teeth into. Thats why their respective first film were perfect for them. There was meat on the bone for them.
  • 007RogerMoore007RogerMoore
    Posts: 1,082
    actonsteve wrote:
    As much as I love AVTAK and as much as I love the Daltonator. Both would have been wrong for each other.

    AVTAK is a traditional formulaic Bond. No acting required. They just needed a very charismatic leading man to reel off the oneliners. Connery or Brosnan would have been fine.

    Dalton and Craig need more not less. There would have been nothing for them to get their teeth into. Thats why their respective first film were perfect for them. There was meat on the bone for them.

    I concur, no one other than Moore is supposed to mantle AVTAK. Brosnan could perhaps do it, if the movie was done in 1993 or 2004. He was too young by 1985.
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    actonsteve wrote:
    Connery or Brosnan would have been fine.

    I never thought of Connery in AVTAK. Intriguing!
  • St_GeorgeSt_George Shuttling Drax's lovelies to the space doughnut - happy 40th, MR!
    edited March 2012 Posts: 1,699
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    NSNA beat both Dalton outings, so it really seems Dalton was not very popular.... before Pierce it's as if the public only accepted Sean and Rog as Bond.

    Whichever way you wash it - whether you like it or not - I'm afraid this is true.

    Sir Rog was bankable for Bond (his flicks always made a good profit), so both Broccoli and MGM/UA were only too happy to have him back in the role three times after the huge box-office bonanza that was MR. Other actors were tested before both FYEO and OP, I believe, but the reasons for which have never been claimed as anything other than in case Moore didn't want to do another and/ or to gee his up agent and settle for the money being offered. Producers and studios always want bankable success, especially on big Hollywood productions where so much money's at stake, so it's always a gamble changing the actor for a role like Bond.

    Thankfully, it's arguably always gone more or less right - even if the public didn't really warm to either Lazenby and Dalton, their efforts were profitable ventures...

  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    edited March 2012 Posts: 1,778
    I don't think it was a matter of EON only keeping Moore because there were no suitable candidates. People tend to forget how popular Moore was as Bond in the 70s and 80s. His portrayal hasn't aged as well as Connery's but from what I understand he was more or less totally accepted as James Bond by the public. If anything it was Moore who wanted out of the role but EON kept throwing more money at him. Additional reasons to him satying past MR were,

    For Your Eyes Only- John Glen admitted to being intimated with the idea of both directing his first film and having to establish a new actor as Bond. He probably had flashbacks of Peter Hunt and OHMSS. He admitted in the interview he was very glad EON went the safe route and stuck with Moore. He said it made his job much easier.

    Octopussy- Obviously it was NSNA that was the determining factor. EON had a much better chance with Moore vs. Connery as opposed to Brolin vs. Connery. Thankyou Sir Roger for sparing us that dreadful casting ^:)^

    A View To A Kill- OP ended up being a huge hit, especially in the US, and as a previous poster said I think EON was on a high after they beat NSNA. Afterall Moore's salary for AVTAK was byfar his biggest.

    All-in-all I would've loved to have seen Dalton debut in a more serious AVTAK. Ofcourse the script would've been changed to suit him. From what I understand the original script for TLD was much more comical and was only changed after Dalton signed on. The same would've been so for AVTAK.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    edited March 2012 Posts: 3,262
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    I think Dalton could have done AVTAK, but they'd have to change the film to suit him.

    I've said before, I would've liked moore to retire after FYEO, but I would've liked him to still do octopussy, except in 1977.

    Then Dalton takes over and in 1983 does TLD, then 2 years later LTK, and he does another film every 2 years then he finally retires after goldeneye. Brosnan starts of with TND, then does all his films along with 2 more in 2004 and 2006, then craig takes over for CR.

    That's not a bad scenario, tlr.
    MajorDSmythe wrote:
    Samuel001 wrote:
    I've always thought Brosnan was approached first, then Dalton. Was Dalton wanted to begin with? That's news to me.

    Dalton was offered TLD first, but had allready commited to Brenda Starr, it's at that point that Bond was then offered to Brosnan.

    And before that Broccoli considered Dalton for the role for OHMSS(or for DAF, depending on the source.)
    MajorDSmythe wrote:
    As for AVTAK, I think that with Moore still officially Bond, it was written for him. Had Dalton taken over for AVTAK, I think there would have been a number of changes to the film. I must admit that the thought of Dalton's Bond going up against Walken's Zorrin does intrigue me somewhat. :-? At the very least, it would have made the final fight a level playing field, physically. Loose Grace Jones & Tanya Robets and promote Fullerton to main Bond Girl and the film would be on it's way to being a vastly improved AVTAK.

    And give more screen time to Alison Doody. I've read that Dalton screentested with Fiona Fullerton with him as Bond and her as Tatiana Romanova.
    actonsteve wrote:
    As much as I love AVTAK and as much as I love the Daltonator. Both would have been wrong for each other.

    AVTAK is a traditional formulaic Bond. No acting required. They just needed a very charismatic leading man to reel off the oneliners. Connery or Brosnan would have been fine.

    Truth. AVTAK was the most by-the-numbers/tick-the-box entry up to that point in the series. A Dalton AVTAK would only've worked with a massive script overhaul prior to shooting. I came up with an "alternate universe" AVTAK story idea retailored for Dalton in the following thread:

    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/comment/74908#Comment_74908
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    PrinceKamalKhan wrote:
    And give more screen time to Alison Doody. I've read that Dalton screentested with Fiona Fullerton with him as Bond and her as Tatiana Romanova.

    I think Fullerton might have been testing actors for OP (I think she's shown in the Brolin tests on the UE DVD), and given the role of Paula in AVTAK becasue of her tests with Brolin. Much like D'Abo only being used for the screentests of potential Bonds for TLD, but because of those tests, she was cast as Kara in TLD.

    And yes to your suggestion of Doody, promote her to secondary Bond Girl. Yes, I can piture the poster now, Dalton in the centre, with Fullerton and Doody either side.

    All I need is some spare Plutonium of my time machine...
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    007RogerMoore wrote:
    AVTAK is number 4 on my top-22 at the moment. I used to rank it at fifth place, but I now like it more than OP.

    I prefer OP.

    Me too. :D
  • GermanladyGermanlady
    Posts: 6,601
    007RogerMoore wrote:
    I´ve also heard that during LTK, movie goers were interviewed about Bond. Most said that they disliked Dalton and bemoaned the retirement of Moore. I feel sorry for Dalton, he was good but he had to follow the real Bond.

    I honestly don't think, it had to do with Moore - most at this point surely found, he had reached an appropriate age to retire ( :( ) Daltion was just not a charismatic enough lead for Bond IMO...
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited March 2012 Posts: 12,837
    Samuel001 wrote:
    I've always thought Brosnan was approached first, then Dalton. Was Dalton wanted to begin with? That's news to me.

    Well I heard they wanted Dalton as far back as OHMSS. That would've been great, 1969 to 1995.
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    Well........... as big of a Dalton fan I am, I figure there's only ONE way that could have worked: 1969's movie was not OHMSS, it was Casino Royale, and it was a reboot showing Bond's first mission.
    Obviously there was no chance in hell that would have happened because the Bond movies were the best, most profitable movies out there.

    From the man himself, he was too young
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    Master_Dahark wrote:
    Well........... as big of a Dalton fan I am, I figure there's only ONE way that could have worked: 1969's movie was not OHMSS, it was Casino Royale, and it was a reboot showing Bond's first mission.
    Obviously there was no chance in hell that would have happened because the Bond movies were the best, most profitable movies out there.

    From the man himself, he was too young

    CR in 1969 could've worked better than OHMSS I think. If they added gadgets and traditional bond elements to keep people happy, and if they had some FRWL/TB type blofeld parts. But yeah, as much as I would've liked it, Dalton probably was too young.

    Imagine though, if Dalton had been bond for that long. What if he did brosnans era too??? 1969-2002.... As much as I like brosnan this would've been awesome.
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    007RogerMoore wrote:
    AVTAK is number 4 on my top-22 at the moment. I used to rank it at fifth place, but I now like it more than OP.

    You like AVTAK, especially in your Top Ten?! That's amazing, so do I! I didn't think anyone else really liked AVTAK. It's in my Top Ten as well, I can't understand the backlash it gets!
  • GermanladyGermanlady
    Posts: 6,601
    I like it as well...
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited March 2012 Posts: 11,189
    actonsteve wrote:
    As much as I love AVTAK and as much as I love the Daltonator

    :)) :))

    That made me chuckle

    There is SOME acting in View - namely when Moore confronts Zorin after the "horse race" and...err...in Hal's office ("you're being used Mr Hal", "don't bother Stacey...he's a psychopath")
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    00Beast wrote:
    007RogerMoore wrote:
    AVTAK is number 4 on my top-22 at the moment. I used to rank it at fifth place, but I now like it more than OP.

    You like AVTAK, especially in your Top Ten?! That's amazing, so do I! I didn't think anyone else really liked AVTAK. It's in my Top Ten as well, I can't understand the backlash it gets!

    I love AVTAK too !! :)>-
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited March 2012 Posts: 11,189
    PrinceKamalKhan wrote:
    thelivingroyale wrote:

    And give more screen time to Alison Doody.

    Aah! Alison Doody. Not only Jenny Flex but also the woman from this scene:



    In relation to AVTAK there's also this:



    Damn, the connections Brosnan had to Bond before he was even in the role are really quite errie.
  • identigraphidentigraph
    Posts: 1,052
    Watched AVTAK last night, I enjoy it more everytime I see it and Rog being old barely registers to me now!
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    identigraph wrote:
    Watched AVTAK last night, I enjoy it more everytime I see it and Rog being old barely registers to me now!

    Same here, the "old" factor of Roger gets lost as the movie becomes better. I guess you focus more on the plot and Bond himself than what age the actor is.
  • 007RogerMoore007RogerMoore
    Posts: 1,082
    People don´t like it because Moore was old. But the insanely high quality of the movie can´t be denied.
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    007RogerMoore wrote:
    People don´t like it because Moore was old. But the insanely high quality of the movie can´t be denied.

    Oh agreed! AVTAK just has something, I can't put my finger on it, but it just does. I may never know what that something is, but there's no denying the greatness of AVTAK!
  • 007RogerMoore007RogerMoore
    Posts: 1,082
    00Beast wrote:
    007RogerMoore wrote:
    People don´t like it because Moore was old. But the insanely high quality of the movie can´t be denied.

    Oh agreed! AVTAK just has something, I can't put my finger on it, but it just does. I may never know what that something is, but there's no denying the greatness of AVTAK!

    What you experience is the pleasure of watching a movie so good that 1000 words cannot describe it.
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    007RogerMoore wrote:
    00Beast wrote:
    007RogerMoore wrote:
    People don´t like it because Moore was old. But the insanely high quality of the movie can´t be denied.

    Oh agreed! AVTAK just has something, I can't put my finger on it, but it just does. I may never know what that something is, but there's no denying the greatness of AVTAK!

    What you experience is the pleasure of watching a movie so good that 1000 words cannot describe it.

    Hit the nail on the head, my friend! Bravo!
  • Crab_Of_DoomCrab_Of_Doom
    Posts: 32
    I think Moore should have stayed 'till 1989. In 1991 Brosnan would become the new Bond. Dalton is a great actor in my opinion, but he was horrible as Bond, like a little emo. DELLA! Crybaby! The two movies 87-89 would hopefully have been great Moore films. Moore looked tighter in the face and fitter in AVTAK and could 've continued. I don't give a shit about how old he really was. The Bond franchise is not serious anyway, so why bother making it believable?

    Another option would be if Brosnan became Bond in '87 with a more popcorn-esque TLD.
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    Skip Dalton altogether??

    Get. Out.
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    @Crab_Of_Doom: I could go for Brosnan in TLD! Sounds cool!
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    He was way too fair in 1987 I think.

    Which one's Pierce?

    ea50de80.jpg
  • Crab_Of_DoomCrab_Of_Doom
    Posts: 32
    Master_Dahark wrote:
    Skip Dalton altogether??

    Get. Out.

    I take that as a sign that you really hate Dalton!
    :))
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited March 2012 Posts: 28,694
    Crab_Of_Doom wrote:
    Master_Dahark wrote:
    Skip Dalton altogether??

    Get. Out.

    I take that as a sign that you really hate Dalton!
    :))

    No, he loves him. I hope you are being sarcastic.
  • Crab_Of_DoomCrab_Of_Doom
    Posts: 32
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    Crab_Of_Doom wrote:
    Master_Dahark wrote:
    Skip Dalton altogether??

    Get. Out.

    I take that as a sign that you really hate Dalton!
    :))

    No, he loves him. I hope you are being sarcastic.

    Of course, Brady. I was just kidding.
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