"Back of the net!": The Football Thread

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  • JohnHammond73JohnHammond73 Lancashire, UK
    Posts: 4,151
    Shocking all round last night, manager and players. No tactical know how on how to get back into the game from Hodgson and no fight, passion or pride from the players. Got what they deserved.

    On another note, my application for the head coach job has today been emailed to Martin Glenn at The FA. Having the experience of management myself, albeit in local parks football, for 20 odd years, I'm sure i can do the job and get the best out of the players available. Plus, at a fraction of the price.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    One problem might be that even the Premier League has a high amount of famous international managers but where are the young English talents? Does England maybe have a more serious "manager problem"?

    In Germany where I live it is hardly impossible to have such a high amount of foreign managers. Actually it is very rare (Pep Guardiola was an exception). Therefore, young and very motivated managers get a chance (think of Klopp who was very successfull with Dortmund and is now in Liverpool) or Thomas Tuchel who is his successor in Dortmund. All in all, there is a trend towards younger managers who use all kinds of modern technologies and scientific developments.

    Hence, I think England should not again spend Millions of Dollars for the next foreign superstar but find someone who knows the English players very well, has great motivation skills, is experienced but no too old and open for new meassures and unpopular decisions.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,134
    England might have had terrible managers the past few years, but truth is they haven't had a good team since World Cup 2006. They should start focusing on educating young talents instead of buying all the best foreign players for their overhyped PL.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    England might have had terrible managers the past few years, but truth is they haven't had a good team since World Cup 2006. They should start focusing on educating young talents instead of buying all the best foreign players for their overhyped PL.

    We're in a better position than we've been for some time re. new talent (although we can continue to do better). We need a manager who can bring cohesion, a style of play that can be rolled out at grass roots and an ethos that can start to erode these biennial psychological problems that ruin every tournament.

    The problem with England is that there is no defined 'style', we have kids who play in vastly different set ups and when they're brought together they can't integrate into any sort of viable system. Do we play down the channels, through the middle, over the top, possession - this England seem to do all of these, but none of them effectively. 2006 was a half-decent side, but at the end of the day, a side with Kane, Vardy and Sturridge should have been able to score far more goals from open play than they did.

    There are myriad problems, but talent isn't the most pressing one, in fact it's way down the list. We've always had and will continue to have players who can do a job, it's about forming a cohesive 'team'. Italy are no better than England on an individual level, but their team spirit and their psychological stability mean they will always compete at a much higher level in tournaments.
  • Posts: 4,325
    Well let's start with the basics. Even Wayne Rooney could benefit after last night. Before we get into tactics they need to learn how to pass the ball 5 yards when they're wearing an England shirt. A 10 year old could teach them that - last night they literally could not pass the ball. There is no excuse for that.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Well let's start with the basics. Even Wayne Rooney could benefit after last night. Before we get into tactics they need to learn how to pass the ball 5 yards when they're wearing an England shirt. A 10 year old could teach them that - last night they literally could not pass the ball. There is no excuse for that.

    It's psychological. Once the equaliser went in they all bottled it, hence why Hart failed to save a shot my wife could've. It's all in the head, they're technically proficient footballers.
  • Posts: 4,325
    RC7 wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Well let's start with the basics. Even Wayne Rooney could benefit after last night. Before we get into tactics they need to learn how to pass the ball 5 yards when they're wearing an England shirt. A 10 year old could teach them that - last night they literally could not pass the ball. There is no excuse for that.

    It's psychological. Once the equaliser went in they all bottled it, hence why Hart failed to save a shot my wife could've. It's all in the head, they're technically proficient footballers.

    Should be able to deal with it at that level, if they can't they shouldn't be playing for England in a major tournament.
  • Posts: 4,044
    fanbond123 wrote: »
    Congratulations to England for another fine display!

    roy-hodgson-ponders.jpg

    :-j

    The problem was that he didn't know that he didn't know what he was doing.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Well let's start with the basics. Even Wayne Rooney could benefit after last night. Before we get into tactics they need to learn how to pass the ball 5 yards when they're wearing an England shirt. A 10 year old could teach them that - last night they literally could not pass the ball. There is no excuse for that.

    It's psychological. Once the equaliser went in they all bottled it, hence why Hart failed to save a shot my wife could've. It's all in the head, they're technically proficient footballers.

    Should be able to deal with it at that level, if they can't they shouldn't be playing for England in a major tournament.

    I assume you've never watched England in a major tournament before?
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384

    TSN commentary after the England v Iceland match
  • edited June 2016 Posts: 4,325
    RC7 wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Well let's start with the basics. Even Wayne Rooney could benefit after last night. Before we get into tactics they need to learn how to pass the ball 5 yards when they're wearing an England shirt. A 10 year old could teach them that - last night they literally could not pass the ball. There is no excuse for that.

    It's psychological. Once the equaliser went in they all bottled it, hence why Hart failed to save a shot my wife could've. It's all in the head, they're technically proficient footballers.

    Should be able to deal with it at that level, if they can't they shouldn't be playing for England in a major tournament.

    I assume you've never watched England in a major tournament before?

    Of course I have - Euro 96, World Cup 98, Euro 2000, World Cup 2002, Euro 2004, World Cup 2006, World Cup 2010, Euro 2012, World Cup 2014 and Euro 2016

    Euro 96 and World Cup 98, we went out with our heads held high.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Where is @WizardOflce? I hope he hasn't done anything drastic, after yesterday's shambles.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Well let's start with the basics. Even Wayne Rooney could benefit after last night. Before we get into tactics they need to learn how to pass the ball 5 yards when they're wearing an England shirt. A 10 year old could teach them that - last night they literally could not pass the ball. There is no excuse for that.

    It's psychological. Once the equaliser went in they all bottled it, hence why Hart failed to save a shot my wife could've. It's all in the head, they're technically proficient footballers.

    Should be able to deal with it at that level, if they can't they shouldn't be playing for England in a major tournament.

    I assume you've never watched England in a major tournament before?

    Of course I have - Euro 96, World Cup 98, Euro 2000, World Cup 2002, Euro 2004, World Cup 2006, World Cup 2010, Euro 2012, World Cup 2014 and Euro 2016

    Euro 96 and World Cup 98, we went out with our heads held high.

    If heads held high includes losing to the Germans on penalties (again) and effigy's of Beckham being burnt. If I recall correctly we finished second in our group again in '98, behind Romania, who we failed to beat and then obviously we were subsequently knocked out by the Argies in the next round, not forgetting Owen's solo effort. '96 is notable for our drubbing of the dutch and Gazza vs. Scotland. Memorable, granted, but if we'd known that would be our legacy 20 years down the line, bearing in mind some of the talent we've had in the intervening years we'd have shuddered. It's an endemic problem that doesn't seem to be going away. There needs to be a real shake-up.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I love Bobby Robson's 86/90 World Cup teams. The best of the recent (if you can call it that) past imho.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    bondjames wrote: »
    I love Bobby Robson's 86/90 World Cup teams. The best of the recent (if you can call it that) past imho.

    90 were great.
  • Posts: 4,325
    RC7 wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Well let's start with the basics. Even Wayne Rooney could benefit after last night. Before we get into tactics they need to learn how to pass the ball 5 yards when they're wearing an England shirt. A 10 year old could teach them that - last night they literally could not pass the ball. There is no excuse for that.

    It's psychological. Once the equaliser went in they all bottled it, hence why Hart failed to save a shot my wife could've. It's all in the head, they're technically proficient footballers.

    Should be able to deal with it at that level, if they can't they shouldn't be playing for England in a major tournament.

    I assume you've never watched England in a major tournament before?

    Of course I have - Euro 96, World Cup 98, Euro 2000, World Cup 2002, Euro 2004, World Cup 2006, World Cup 2010, Euro 2012, World Cup 2014 and Euro 2016

    Euro 96 and World Cup 98, we went out with our heads held high.

    If heads held high includes losing to the Germans on penalties (again) and effigy's of Beckham being burnt. If I recall correctly we finished second in our group again in '98, behind Romania, who we failed to beat and then obviously we were subsequently knocked out by the Argies in the next round, not forgetting Owen's solo effort. '96 is notable for our drubbing of the dutch and Gazza vs. Scotland. Memorable, granted, but if we'd known that would be our legacy 20 years down the line, bearing in mind some of the talent we've had in the intervening years we'd have shuddered. It's an endemic problem that doesn't seem to be going away. There needs to be a real shake-up.

    In comparison to last night, they were proud moments.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    edited June 2016 Posts: 1,261
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
  • JohnHammond73JohnHammond73 Lancashire, UK
    Posts: 4,151
    Loved Ian Wright's "Space Jam" comment
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Loved Ian Wright's "Space Jam" comment

    Ha ha, amazing.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    Maybe the problem is that there has never been a real turning point in England. I mean Germany for instance was lucky to host the world cup in 2006. This gave them the chance to restructure everything, especially with regard to the education of new players and some rules to promote younger players in the German Bundesliga. The beginning of the reform started after the horrendous Euro 2000 when Germany played such an awfull football and went out last in their group. In those days the Germans admired the English team, especially after their 1:5 loss in 2001 in the WC qualification. However, whereas Germany and England had their similar ups and downs between 1990 and 2006, from 2006 onwards, England has never really recovered whereas Germany thanks to their reform in the early 2000s have become very successfull being in the Semi finals for 5 times in a row.

    I am still not sure whether there is a lack of great talents in England. The team consists of many great young players. Maybe it is rather a problem of experience and motivation. If you earn millions of Dollars in your club it is maybe difficult to motivate yourself for your national team. There also seam to be some mental problems. Each time when it gets a little close England loses. They almost ever lose the penalty shoot-out and after a deficit they hardly ever turn a decisive match. They also always seam to lose against teams of similar or slightly higher quality. I think their victory against Argentina in 2002 was the last against a team of high quality. After that:

    World Cup 2002:
    Brazil : England 2:1

    Euro 2004:
    France : England 2:1
    Portugal : England 6:5 penalty

    World Cup 2006:
    Portugal : England 1:0

    World-Cup 2010:
    Germany : England 4:1

    Euro 2012:
    England : France 1:1
    Italy : England 4:2 penalty

    World-Cup 2014:
    Italy : Englan 2:1
    Urugay: England 2:1

    So eight losses and one tie against high quality teams.

  • SuperintendentSuperintendent A separate pool. For sharks, no less.
    Posts: 871
    TKJOh18.jpg?1
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited June 2016 Posts: 9,117
    June 2nd:
    Christ this is turgid dross.

    I hope all those who were getting optimistic at the youthful attacking squad have been brought back down to earth. This is Roy Hodgson remember a man whose default position at the start of a game is 'I've got 0-0 Jim. I've had a wonderful time and don't want to risk it by going for the caravan.'

    Jesus we're against 10 men in a friendly and still he won't have a real go at the opposition.
    He's the weakest link in the squad for me.

    June 11th:

    A perfect summary of the game Sir and why I've been saying for years Woy is our weakest link. Russia were extremely limited and there for the taking. Once the first goal went in the only possible move was Vardy on for Sterling to destroy them on the break as they pushed forwards. Sterling was f**king appalling all night (hardly a novelty) but the only c**t in the stadium who couldn't see it was the blind prick in charge.

    If getting knocked out in the group stage again is what it takes for the FA mugs to sack this clueless sack of shit then so be it.

    Any other serious footballing nation would sack their manager after the showing at the last World Cup but not us. Then again since when have we been a serious footballing nation?

    And, if you are interested, in ploughing through them various rants on page 81 of this thread about how we had the wrong man from day one.

    Shearer smashed it out of the park on MOTD to be fair to him and there's nothing else I can add to what he said.

    Standing 20 yards from the clown last night I would've felt a soupçon of sympathy at what a tragic figure he cut had I not been so incensed at his rank ineptitude. Rashford must've been warming up in front of me for about 20 minutes while the clock ticked down. He kept looking at the bench expecting to be sent on but the useless f**k just stood there with his hand on his chin without the slightest clue how to affect the events unfolding in front of him.

    I'm reminded of anecdotal tales about the captain of the Titanic who, upon being told that it was certain that the ship would sink, went into a daze (it is said he had some sort of mental breakdown) and spent the rest of the time wandering round unable to issue orders to the crew.

    Yes Roy shoulders a lot of the blame but the buck ultimately stops at the feckless suits who a) employed him in the first place, despite a CV that, with the greatest will in the world, could only be described as very average b) continued to blithely employ him after the most abject World Cup ever. These people are, at best, grossly incompetent and at worst parasites growing fat off the fans who fill their coffers with the misplaced loyalty and stupidly dare to believe that we might not be utter shite for once.

    Roy Hodgson was the highest paid coach at Euro 2016.

    I'll just write that sentence again to allow it to sink in:

    Roy Hodgson was the highest paid coach at Euro 2016.

    A man whose greatest triumph was winning the Swedish league 5 years in a row in the 80s!

    That in itself illustrates just how out of touch with reality the FA is.

    The players should not escape censure of course. Most of them are shockingly overpaid and overrated but without anything approaching a clear tactical game plan it was clear they simply didn't know what they were supposed to be doing. And that's down to the manager.

    But tomorrow the FA will make all these feeble platitudes about starting from scratch, changing our philosophy and building for the future. And then they will hire Gareth Southgate. Nothing against him personally but the key attribute that will get him the job is that he is an FA yes man.

    Changing the manager is fiddling while Rome burns. We have done it hundreds of times with the same result.

    Strange how similar the FA and EU are. Middle aged white blokes with massive expense accounts and no discernible talent. And absolutely no fear of being held to account for failure.

    Whatever happened to people being sacked if they are shit? Even Roy was allowed to resign when someone from the FA should've humiliatingly sacked him.

    Perhaps the FA needs to go public because it's apparently it's only when you are accountable to shareholders that you need to deliver?

    The lowest moment of all. Joe Gatejens 1950 used to be the gold standard of England humiliation. World Cup 94 qualifying was abject, Euro 08 qualifying was dismal, World Cup 10 was pitiful, World Cup 14 was a disgrace but this is it; the nadir. The anger has subsided now. Just depression remains.

    Still chin up - there's always someone worse off than yourself. We could be Scotland! Even Roy somehow managed to get us out of the group, something they have still never managed. Scant consolation I know but the average jock would bite your hand off to get knocked out by Iceland in the last 16.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Not normally a big footie fan but found this spoof advert funny:
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    =)) great video
  • Posts: 4,325
    The last press conference with Hodgson proves why he was an awful England manager. Couldn't accept he was appalling, and was defensive.

    'Why you all upset, it was just one bad game' paraphrase.

    Yes, exactly. This is tournament football, it's not like the league with a club where one lousy game can be made up. That's the nature of the job, have a bad game and you're out.
  • Posts: 4,044
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    The last press conference with Hodgson proves why he was an awful England manager. Couldn't accept he was appalling, and was defensive.

    'Why you all upset, it was just one bad game' paraphrase.

    Yes, exactly. This is tournament football, it's not like the league with a club where one lousy game can be made up. That's the nature of the job, have a bad game and you're out.

    He couldn't understand why he had to even be at that press conference. "I'm no longer the England manager." Like it wasn't his fault.

  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    vzok wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    The last press conference with Hodgson proves why he was an awful England manager. Couldn't accept he was appalling, and was defensive.

    'Why you all upset, it was just one bad game' paraphrase.

    Yes, exactly. This is tournament football, it's not like the league with a club where one lousy game can be made up. That's the nature of the job, have a bad game and you're out.

    He couldn't understand why he had to even be at that press conference. "I'm no longer the England manager." Like it wasn't his fault.

    Staggering.

    'Why am I here? You mean I should have to answer for being a total fucking disgrace? Don't think so. This is England where being shit at your job doesn't hold you back. Just look at the FA, the Prime Minister, Leader of the Opposition etc etc etc. Why are you singling me out?'

    The country is a Warick Davis stride away from falling off a cliff.
  • Posts: 6,432
    Two shows on TV tonight, The Hand of God and Shearers Euro 96. The only thing they should ever show is World Cup 66, until this country stops celebrating failure England will never improve. 1996 was a amazing summer probably the best in memory for various reasons, though in football terms we lost England failed.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    +1 =D>
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