The James Bond Questions Thread

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  • edited March 13 Posts: 5,004
    Was it common in the 60s for people in English-speaking countries to say 'ciao'? I notice Derval says it in TB, despite him being French not Italian (although the literary character is Italian, so I suppose we can just call that one a mistake), and, perhaps more notably, Bond says it in both DN and FRWL.

    I guess in the 60s there were more Italian films being shown internationally? Giallo and Spaghetti Westerns and all that (although I guess they were dubbed so no ciao). I guess in the ten years before there were some bigger American films which showed Italy and were shot there which I guess hadn’t really been seen by as many viewers in the US/UK prior (off the top of my head I’m thinking of Roman Holiday - can’t remember if they jokingly say ciao or anything). That and I guess international air travel/holidays were becoming more prominent….

    I don’t know if people widely said ciao in the 60s, but if I were going to guess it’d come down to factors like that as to why Bond says it in the early 60s.

    EDIT: Wiki tells me Hemingway’s A Farewell to Arms used the phrase and that’s credited to introducing it into English. I don’t know how true that is, but I reckon it’d been a term around in English and ultimately popular culture for a while.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,734
    I remember it was quite popular in the 80s, a bit yuppie-ish, I guess it showed you were sophisticated. I guess folks were doing it from the 60s.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,428
    Bond, apart from being British, has also always been a man of the world. Figs for breakfast, the right saké temperature, wine knowledge, as well as a multilinguist. It doesn't strike me as odd that Connery's Bond says ciao, nor does it strike me as odd that Moore's Bond says au revoir in TSWLM. I quite like it tbh :p
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,709
    Here is what ChatGPT said when asked the question about ciao

    By the 1960s, "ciao" had been adopted into English usage, particularly in informal contexts, serving as both a greeting and a farewell. Its integration into the English language was influenced by cultural exchanges and the global spread of Italian cinema, fashion, and cuisine during the mid-20th century.

    In Great Britain, the 1960s were marked by significant social and cultural transformations, including the rise of youth culture and increased interest in continental European trends. While "ciao" was recognized and occasionally used, it did not achieve widespread popularity as a common greeting or farewell in everyday British vernacular during that decade. The British populace primarily continued to use traditional English salutations such as "hello" and "goodbye."

    In other Western societies, particularly in countries with substantial Italian immigrant communities, such as the United States and Australia, "ciao" saw more frequent usage. Its adoption varied depending on regional cultural dynamics and the extent of Italian cultural influence.

    Overall, while "ciao" was present and understood in Great Britain and other Western societies during the 1960s, its usage was more prevalent in regions with closer ties to Italian culture.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,428
    thedove wrote: »
    Here is what ChatGPT said when asked the question about ciao

    By the 1960s, "ciao" had been adopted into English usage, particularly in informal contexts, serving as both a greeting and a farewell. Its integration into the English language was influenced by cultural exchanges and the global spread of Italian cinema, fashion, and cuisine during the mid-20th century.

    In Great Britain, the 1960s were marked by significant social and cultural transformations, including the rise of youth culture and increased interest in continental European trends. While "ciao" was recognized and occasionally used, it did not achieve widespread popularity as a common greeting or farewell in everyday British vernacular during that decade. The British populace primarily continued to use traditional English salutations such as "hello" and "goodbye."

    In other Western societies, particularly in countries with substantial Italian immigrant communities, such as the United States and Australia, "ciao" saw more frequent usage. Its adoption varied depending on regional cultural dynamics and the extent of Italian cultural influence.

    Overall, while "ciao" was present and understood in Great Britain and other Western societies during the 1960s, its usage was more prevalent in regions with closer ties to Italian culture.

    That makes sense. Here in Belgium, or at least where I live, we have a very present Italian community and no-one will look up if you use ciao. I do it myself quite often tbh.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,825
    Question for fans - which do you think of as the "cooler" movie of the two, TSWLM or YOLT?

    YOLT has Connery, the late 60's aesethic, the gorgeous Japanese vistas, but little nelly and the "turning Japanese" sequence is more silly than cool. TSWLM has less bad moments, but is more overt on the comedy side, and the fashion of the seventies just wasn't quite as cool as the 60's.
  • edited April 12 Posts: 5,004
    Question for fans - which do you think of as the "cooler" movie of the two, TSWLM or YOLT?

    YOLT has Connery, the late 60's aesethic, the gorgeous Japanese vistas, but little nelly and the "turning Japanese" sequence is more silly than cool. TSWLM has less bad moments, but is more overt on the comedy side, and the fashion of the seventies just wasn't quite as cool as the 60's.

    Depends on what you mean by cool... I guess from that very broad nostalgia/aesthetic perspective, yeah, you can argue YOLT is the answer as it's very much a height of Bondmania film... but I'm not sure if the film itself is necessarily one of the more fondly remembered Bond movies in practice, or is at least more middling in this area than many would suspect (I'm a bit biased because it's far from one of my favourites and would argue it drags in places. I think it gets points because a lot of the imagery has become iconic - the volcano lair, Pleasance's Blofeld etc. To be fair aesthetically and in terms of cinematography/set design it's pretty great. But I have talked with people who simply don't like the film and I can understand that).

    I have heard people call the parachute jump in TSWLM really cool. But yeah, depends...
  • Posts: 15,494
    I'm a fan of neither to be honest. I'd say maybe TSWLM, just because it pretty much saved Bond. YOLT didn't need to be like that, it would have been successful whatever they had decided to do with it. But they needed TSWLM.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,582
    Question for fans - which do you think of as the "cooler" movie of the two, TSWLM or YOLT?

    YOLT has Connery, the late 60's aesethic, the gorgeous Japanese vistas, but little nelly and the "turning Japanese" sequence is more silly than cool. TSWLM has less bad moments, but is more overt on the comedy side, and the fashion of the seventies just wasn't quite as cool as the 60's.

    Hard to say, although right now I'm leaning more towards TSWLM. All depends on how we are to interpret the word "cool", I suppose.

    YOLT assembles many great parts, but I'm not sure I'd call them "cool". The sets and locations are spectacular, the score and theme song are exceptional, and some film elements, like Blofeld, are charming and iconic. The film also has messy bits that deserve a bit of polishing. Yet none of that registers as either "cool" or "uncool" in my mind. YOLT seems defiant of any relation to the word. Yes, it's a sixties Bond, but neither set in hip, swinging London, nor inviting the rock 'n' roll of the times. In that sense, GF comes closer to being a"cool" Bond, I guess.

    TSWLM does better. It has that "cool" Union Jack moment, a very "cool" helicopter-car chase, an incredibly "cool" duo of lairs for the villain in the Liparus and Atlantis, and perhaps one of the "cooler" henchmen in scary Jaws. In the absence of a clear definition of the word "cool", my gut feeling says that TWSLM is the cooler of the two films.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,709
    Were bell bottoms and ties wide enough to land planes on ever cool? LOL!

    Which one is cooler? I don't think one can beat Japan in the 1960's. Something so magical about it. An volanco lair for the villain we hadn't seen but only heard of? A cigarette rocket gun? Come on, this has cool all over it. I am choosing YOLT for coolness factor. Spy is a slicker film with a great deal of fun.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,734
    Yeah, YOLT is 60s Connery Bond in 60s Japan, full of Ken Adam chic and John Barry awesomeness; it's the cool one. I love Roger with all my heart, but he was never cool; ironically cool maybe, but not really cool.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,582
    And yet, if we're zooming in on the Jameses themselves, I'm not sure I find either particularly cool. Connery oozed "cool" in DN, FRWL and GF, but gradually lost some of that in his next films. He's not "uncool" in YOLT, don't get me wrong, but I rarely see him do anything even remotely as cool as many of the things he does or says in his first three. While I don't find him quite as toxic or boring in YOLT as some do, he's not exactly firing on all cylinders anymore.

    Regarding '60s Japan, yes, it all looks great. But cool? Again, we may all have a different interpretation of the word, so I'm not willing to die on that hill. ;-)

    (Especially since I find CR67 a "cool" flick, but for all the wrong reasons.)
  • edited April 12 Posts: 2,482
    I found all the Bonds “really cool” - some more than others but each of them has at least one moment where I can say to myself “Man that’s cool - I wish I could do that” or “I wish I could emulate that.”

    As for the answer to the question, TSWLM for me without a doubt, mainly because I think “Little Nellie” doesn’t really come across as “cool” in the way that the Lotus Espirit does.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited April 12 Posts: 8,825
    Thanks for the feedback everyone.
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah, YOLT is 60s Connery Bond in 60s Japan, full of Ken Adam chic and John Barry awesomeness; it's the cool one. I love Roger with all my heart, but he was never cool; ironically cool maybe, but not really cool.

    You know, I never really analysed it that closely, but I think you could be right. That is very interesting, even after years scrutinising these films there's still fresh insights to uncover.
  • Moore was too old in the role to be effectively 'cool'. There were moments in his debut feature back in '73 where debonair and suave could be labeled but soon after that the actor was too involved in over emphasis on slapstick humor for the part. As before by the final appearance, his age was simply against him.

    I mean Dalton was great, but could you class him as 'cool' in the role. I've never given that aspect of it really that much thought. A great match at the time for what Fleming intended there can be no doubt, but guess it's how you define the terminology of coolness. Lazenby had it in abundance and all this for only one feature appearance.
  • AnotherZorinStoogeAnotherZorinStooge Bramhall (Irish)
    Posts: 99
    Roger Moore is cooler than ice cubes.
    Nobody does it better.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,825
    Roger Moore is cooler than ice cubes.
    Nobody does it better.

    Boom.
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