Pierce Brosnan or Daniel Craig (poll added)

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2015 Posts: 23,883
    I agree @doubleoego.

    From my perspective, Brosnan's casting was all about putting bums on seats. EON had tried to go to the books with Dalton and it had not been all that successful. They were under pressure from the studio (in a pre-Sony money world) to get it right in terms of commercial success, especially after the 6 year gap, and with the entire film universe having moved on.

    That is why we started to see the cliches, that is why they did not take too many risks and that is why they did not really get it right in my mind. The switchover from Cubby to Babs also reduced the risk taking, and she was getting her feet wet during this time.

    Serviceable is the right word to use imo for Brosnan.
    ----

    Craig is just in a different league for me. His movies are in a different league as well. They are as credible as you can make them today, while still retaining the Bond fantasy element (e.g. not going to Le Carre style).

    Having said that, and having watched all of his films recently, I think DC's best personal performance (by far........and I mean far) was in CR. I hope he is given an opportunity to bring that level of quality to the table again in SP.
  • edited February 2015 Posts: 832
    1. Connery
    2. Craig
    3. Moore
    4. Dalton
    5. Brosnan
    6. Lazenby

    Very tough decisions, I kind of like them all. Brosnan was a great actor, goldeneye was fantastic, and he had 2 other good movies, but he just didn't really bring anything new to the series for me. I also like Lazenby.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    Between Brosnan & Craig is a hard one. Brosnan had the look, the height & the smooth, plus the ruthless when necessary. Craig has the tough, the no-nonsense, and the 'could explode' (like Dalton). I guess Brosnan because of strictly personal reasons, but objectively Craig is a powerhouse for Bond.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    My list is quite similar to timmer's. After all, I think there are similar mindsets out there. :D
  • Posts: 188
    Craig. No competition. Not even close.

    Don't misunderstand me, I did enjoy Brosnan much more until Craig came along - and WHAT a revelation he was. He and Brosnan are two very different kinds of actors. I did enjoy GE and TWINE, but I never believed Brosnan's toughness or the little forays into deeper feelings. Yeah, no. In those movies at least, Brosnan's Bond was flat - a projection screen only. And at the time, I thought he had to be. (I understand that some fans want Bond to be exactly that. I myself find it a bit boring.) I went to the movies, but I never felt I was missing out by not watching older ones - or wanted to participate in discussions with other fans.

    And then I saw CR. Craig's movies are just a completely different animal. You have a believable character who does not function primarily as blank screen. He's a round character, he has nuances, he's ambiguous and occasionally very dark, he has a reality to him that makes me feel for him - a real human being, not a cardboard cutout. And all that while still retaining many of those superhero qualities that many associate with 007. I'm invested in his story and his fate, I flinch when he's hurt and I feel solemn when he's heartbroken. While I could never be him (fear not, he will never be your average Joe), I can relate. And while that is greatly due to better scripts, it's also Craig's screen presence and acting range that allows me to do that. Where Brosnan was pleasantly bland, Craig is magnificent!

    Obligatory list:
    Craig > Connery > Dalton > Brosnan > Moore > Lazenby (it's the clothes, I'm sure)
  • Posts: 188
    btw, where is that "poll"?
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    I wonder if the next Bond will bring the "flat projection screen only" material, as that's what I've been noticing through the entire run.
    Connery -- Emotionally unavailable superman.
    Lazenby -- tough yet vulnerable.
    Moore -- Ladies Man, Humourous and Topdog.
    Dalton -- Down the earth, struggling with business human.
    Brosnan -- Mixture of Connery and Moore, which is why he's my second favourite.
    Craig -- Most believable and righteous human who's not a subject to corruption, and most vulnerable.

    The next, from what I would gather, would be bringing the invincible superman fellow in characterization?
  • Craig. No contest. A much better actor and far more convincing in the action scenes. I did enjoy Brosnan as Bond but unfortunately he was given 2 of the worst films in the series TWINE and DAD. I remember being quite surprised when I heard he was not coming back for a fifth and was certainly sceptical when Craig appeared at the press conference for CR. I think Brosnan deserved a much better send off than DAD but glad that Craig is now the one driving the Aston...
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    In my honest opinion, that only being my opinion, of course, I don't think DAD deserves that kind of bad credit that it gets. The early 70s (first three) were worse than that in that case. But, I agree TWINE was awful, even though I loved Sophie Marceau in it. That said, I agree with @nobodydoesitbetter that Brosnan's last two, for how great the first two were, have been miserable. That's only my take on it, however. As for Craig, I enjoyed very much his first two, but the last one didn't sit well with me at all.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2015 Posts: 23,883
    For me TWINE is the bottom of the barrel (actually I think it's the bottom as far as all EON Bond movies go) and Brozz himself has to take a lot of the blame there, with his near teenage performance.

    I personally think he was really good as Bond in DAD, but the movie is nothing more than comedy entertainment.

    TND for me is neither here nor there. I like it a lot as bombastic fun, but I find the girls somewhat forgettable so I just don't watch it much. I agree with opinions that the film peaks in Hamburg (save for the innovative bike scene that comes later). I didn't find him to be too bad in this one, but he was still unsure of himself as Bond. TWINE is where he brought more confidence, but sadly for me, I couldn't stand his performance in it.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Poor Brosnan. All he wanted to do is entertain Bond fans and this is how he's treated. I need a martini.
    bond_hotel.jpg
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Murdock wrote: »
    Poor Brosnan. All he wanted to do is entertain Bond fans and this is how he's treated. I need a martini.
    bond_hotel.jpg

    Well, now that you put it that way, I'm feeling bad about my remarks. I'm sure he is very professional, and if it makes fans feel better, I've just ordered November Man on Blu ray from Amazon (I've seen it before though).

    That scene above is one of the ones that reflect my problem though. A tendency to sort of whine over the women rather than not give a damn. Perhaps it's because I didn't give a damn about Paris. Which reminds me, I forgot to make my bed :)
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    I will always have a soft spot for Pierce Brosnan and espectially GoldenEye, as that is what fired me like a bullet into Bond fandom at quite an early age.
  • Posts: 4,622
    That's one of Broz's good Bondian moments. Fleming Bond sure liked to drink, and very much while on the job too.

    I still laugh when I read LALD. It practically kills Bond, to have to cut back his booze intake while training for his midnight swim to Big's hideout.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    But did he whine over a woman in that scene? He did get slightly beat up by some old guys. I'm sure that bruised his ego a bit. ;)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Murdock wrote: »
    But did he whine over a woman in that scene? He did get slightly beat up by some old guys. I'm sure that bruised his ego a bit. ;)

    That could be what I misunderstood about that scene all these years!

    I thought he was moping about thinking about her and reflecting, because she was with Carver and he got slapped. If only he'd grabbed her hand half way before it connected, I would have been all ok...
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    bondjames wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    But did he whine over a woman in that scene? He did get slightly beat up by some old guys. I'm sure that bruised his ego a bit. ;)

    That could be what I misunderstood about that scene all these years!

    I thought he was moping about thinking about her and reflecting, because she was with Carver and he got slapped. If only he'd grabbed her hand half way before it connected, I would have been all ok...

    Yeah, I'd be drinking heavily too if I had been slapped by Terri Hatcher and forced to act with her. =))
  • Posts: 2,402
    That's the exact problem with Brosnan. He wanted to entertain Bond fans. He wanted the Bond films to be generic popcorn action flicks, and indeed that's most of what his tenure ended up being.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    That's the exact problem with Brosnan. He wanted to entertain Bond fans. He wanted the Bond films to be generic popcorn action flicks, and indeed that's most of what his tenure ended up being.

    Where did he say that? In most interviews he wanted to do the type of films Craig is doing.
  • edited February 2015 Posts: 4,622
    Broz or Craig? Hmmmm.
    I'll rank them on their boozing.

    Broz pounding back straight vodka shots, and holding it together, like Book-Bond, beats Craig's boozy rambling over girly drinks on the plane.
  • Posts: 1,548
    To be fair Brosnan did a good job for the 90's. It's just compared to Craig he's just too lightweight in acting and kick-ass ability for me. All credit to PB for stretching himself post Bond in Matador, The Greatest etc. Id love to see him in another blockbuster action flick though.
  • Posts: 1,552
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I'm such a cool teacher, I play this in my classes once a year. While they work on their projects, of course.


    I look forward to seeing an updated version after SPECTRE, Bond 25 etc...

  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited February 2015 Posts: 7,551
    timmer wrote: »
    Broz or Craig? Hmmmm.
    I'll rank them on their boozing.

    Broz pounding back straight vodka shots, and holding it together, like Book-Bond, beats Craig's boozy rambling over girly drinks on the plane.

    Whats girlier about Vodka + Gin versus just Vodka? Is it the fortified wine?

    EDIT: If we're going by "Book-Bond", those girly drinks on the plane are straight from the first novel, ingredient for ingredient :P

    I realize I'm telling you things you already know, just want to clarify your comment :D
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    bondjames wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    But did he whine over a woman in that scene? He did get slightly beat up by some old guys. I'm sure that bruised his ego a bit. ;)

    That could be what I misunderstood about that scene all these years!

    I thought he was moping about thinking about her and reflecting, because she was with Carver and he got slapped. If only he'd grabbed her hand half way before it connected, I would have been all ok...

    Eh? He just escaped from Carvers goons, got back to his hotel, poured himself a drink, readied his gun and awaited Carver 's next move. It was a throwback to Bond waiting for Dent. That TND scene was one of Brosnan's best moments.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    timmer wrote: »
    Broz or Craig? Hmmmm.
    I'll rank them on their boozing.

    Broz pounding back straight vodka shots, and holding it together, like Book-Bond, beats Craig's boozy rambling over girly drinks on the plane.

    Whats girlier about Vodka + Gin versus just Vodka? Is it the fortified wine?

    EDIT: If we're going by "Book-Bond", those girly drinks on the plane are straight from the first novel, ingredient for ingredient :P

    I realize I'm telling you things you already know, just want to clarify your comment :D

    He likes to stick it to Craig, he's got him at the bottom of his ranking so what do you expect.

    He's getting excited about Spectre despite ranking him so low but I've a feeling he'll be bitching at it like SF come November.

  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    Shardlake wrote: »
    timmer wrote: »
    Broz or Craig? Hmmmm.
    I'll rank them on their boozing.

    Broz pounding back straight vodka shots, and holding it together, like Book-Bond, beats Craig's boozy rambling over girly drinks on the plane.

    Whats girlier about Vodka + Gin versus just Vodka? Is it the fortified wine?

    EDIT: If we're going by "Book-Bond", those girly drinks on the plane are straight from the first novel, ingredient for ingredient :P

    I realize I'm telling you things you already know, just want to clarify your comment :D

    He likes to stick it to Craig, he's got him at the bottom of his ranking so what do you expect.

    He's getting excited about Spectre despite ranking him so low but I've a feeling he'll be bitching at it like SF come November.

    I know, but what's the harm in a little discourse once in awhile :P
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2015 Posts: 23,883
    doubleoego wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    But did he whine over a woman in that scene? He did get slightly beat up by some old guys. I'm sure that bruised his ego a bit. ;)

    That could be what I misunderstood about that scene all these years!

    I thought he was moping about thinking about her and reflecting, because she was with Carver and he got slapped. If only he'd grabbed her hand half way before it connected, I would have been all ok...

    Eh? He just escaped from Carvers goons, got back to his hotel, poured himself a drink, readied his gun and awaited Carver 's next move. It was a throwback to Bond waiting for Dent. That TND scene was one of Brosnan's best moments.

    It's interesting to hear the comments here and how I've seen it differently all these years.

    For me, as I've mentioned on other threads, there was this element inherent in his portrayal of being deeply affected by a number of women in consecutive films. Somewhat sensitive. The slap from Paris to me was very surprising, because I thought he should have grabbed her hand before she delivered it. The way he delivered the "made your bed" line too. This all occured within a few scenes of the vodka binge so I mentally connected them. Furthermore, the reflection scene in GE with Natalya berating him for his being alone, followed by the whining about re: Electra's betrayal in the following film all in combination gave me sort of an effete impression. The fact that all 3 movies were one after the other hammered this in for me re: his character. This continued in some of the bedroom scenes too. Only in DAD did he start showing the goods to me with Jinx on the beach ("too strong for you").

    I've reflected on it, and I think it's just Brosnan's acting in these instances and how it appeared to me. Or maybe because of his refined appearance. Like he had to be treated delicately.

    @timmer mentioned Craig's Bond's reflection about Vesper on the plane in QoS for instance, and that scene came across as very manly to me, despite the alleged girliness of the drink in comparison to TND's vodka bottle (and I realize he's joking). Perhaps it's because the whole movie is about finding solace regarding his beloved Vesper. Or Craig's somewhat rugged appearance. Or maybe it's because Craig's Bond kills people one on one violently with his bare hands, which compensates for these sensitive Bondian moments of alcoholic reflection. :)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    GE & TND rocked the casbah. TWINE was a valiant effort. DAD didn't suck 100%.
  • edited February 2015 Posts: 4,622
    timmer wrote: »
    Broz or Craig? Hmmmm.
    I'll rank them on their boozing.

    Broz pounding back straight vodka shots, and holding it together, like Book-Bond, beats Craig's boozy rambling over girly drinks on the plane.

    Whats girlier about Vodka + Gin versus just Vodka? Is it the fortified wine?

    EDIT: If we're going by "Book-Bond", those girly drinks on the plane are straight from the first novel, ingredient for ingredient :P

    I realize I'm telling you things you already know, just want to clarify your comment :D


    Ok I take back the girlie, but Broz still wins with Vodka from the bottle. Plus Craig babbling a lot of nonsense. Broz's drunk talk I thought had more heft.

    These are important discussions. :P
    bondjames wrote: »
    I've reflected on it, and I think it's just Brosnan's acting in these instances and how it appeared to me. Or maybe because of his refined appearance. Like he had to be treated delicately.
    But you're not wrong. I can't quite put my finger on it, but it's there. There was always something a little off about the good Broz's performance.
    Mind you I don't really care. He maintains his mojo in the films. Broz was always on mission.
    He saved the world a few times, and I do salute him for his service.
    Enjoy retirment with ...hmm..pick a Broz Bond girl. Christmas Jones! :P
    But I am serious. That's who I'd ring up.

  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    I'm with you right there, @timmer. :D
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