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When bond forgets to be bond...

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  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited April 2012 Posts: 28,694
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    X3MSonicX wrote:
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    THE ENTIRE MOORE ERA!

    Could you argument why?
    I need to still, after all this time?

    He is the very opposite of Bond. Unconvincing, camp, and all his films are walking jokes, like a comedy show. All the essence of a serious James Bond as Fleming wrote are gone, replaced with eyebrow raises, ridiculous stupid moments that Bond would never do (TMWTGG school girls scene), and I have the hardest time trying to sit through the garbage because it all feels like a sin against Sean's work in his first 4 and Fleming himself. Roger's Bond is the absolute bottom of the barrel, and the trashing of a beloved fictional character. I like my Bond serious, cold, calculating, and ruthless like it is intended for the character, and Moore shats on that in his films. I will always watch his films the least and Sean's and Dan's the most, that much is certain. I just don't feel like having to go to a confession and let my sins be known every time I watch a Moore Bond film, and I am not a religious man at all.

    But if you like Moore or not, he was the best they had at the time (Dalton was too young, Connery was too fat, Lasenby has quit), and his films did well and kept the series going. I like Moore's Bond. He did something different. If all the Bonds were serious, cold and ruthless, it would get boring. I think it's good that there's different versions of Bond, because that keeps the series going for a long time.

    I'd rather have a small number of great films with Bond portrayed correctly than extra films where the character is completely turned on his head.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    I don't think the argument is that different interpretations have been good for the series they have but when people are saying when does Bond forget he's Bond then we need to know what we are comparing this to.

    Are we saying when Bond is least like the literary version or the film version, Moore's model is probably the general public's most well known version of the character but it is also the most removed from Fleming's take on the character, even Brosnan touched on more of the literary version as much as it pains me to admit it.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Shardlake wrote:
    I don't think the argument is that different interpretations have been good for the series they have but when people are saying when does Bond forget he's Bond then we need to know what we are comparing this to.

    Are we saying when Bond is least like the literary version or the film version, Moore's model is probably the general public's most well known version of the character but it is also the most removed from Fleming's take on the character, even Brosnan touched on more of the literary version as much as it pains me to admit it.

    I'd say Sean's is most widely known. He is the majority favorite, and rightfully so.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    Shardlake wrote:
    I don't think the argument is that different interpretations have been good for the series they have but when people are saying when does Bond forget he's Bond then we need to know what we are comparing this to.

    Are we saying when Bond is least like the literary version or the film version, Moore's model is probably the general public's most well known version of the character but it is also the most removed from Fleming's take on the character, even Brosnan touched on more of the literary version as much as it pains me to admit it.

    I'd say Sean's is most widely known. He is the majority favorite, and rightfully so.

    He's maybe the fan favourite but Moore's take unfortunately is the one that most people outside of fandom gravitate to, trying to tell people that this is not what the character is about and Bond isn't some playboy with an unlimited budget for mayhem I've given up on. The cool answer may well be to say Connery but most people picture Sir Roger, it's the reason PB's era went down so well with Joe public and Dalton's didn't.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Shardlake wrote:
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    Shardlake wrote:
    I don't think the argument is that different interpretations have been good for the series they have but when people are saying when does Bond forget he's Bond then we need to know what we are comparing this to.

    Are we saying when Bond is least like the literary version or the film version, Moore's model is probably the general public's most well known version of the character but it is also the most removed from Fleming's take on the character, even Brosnan touched on more of the literary version as much as it pains me to admit it.

    I'd say Sean's is most widely known. He is the majority favorite, and rightfully so.

    He's maybe the fan favourite but Moore's take unfortunately is the one that most people outside of fandom gravitate to, trying to tell people that this is not what the character is about and Bond isn't some playboy with an unlimited budget for mayhem I've given up on. The cool answer may well be to say Connery but most people picture Sir Roger, it's the reason PB's era went down so well with Joe public and Dalton's didn't.

    Maybe in your experience it's been Moore, but those I know who even watch the bloody films say Sean, and thank god for that. You must be surrounded by mentals.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    @Shardlake, I don't know. My mother doesn't watch Bond films, but knows who most of the actors are (she knows Connery, Moore, Dalton and Brosnan), and she can't stand Moore. She prefers the Connery interpretation.
  • VBM398VBM398
    Posts: 154
    My mother says the same thing
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited April 2012 Posts: 4,399
    Where have Bond films stopped being Bond films?? hmm...

    Moonraker - when Bond goes to space..

    Die Another Day - right around the time Bond runs up on the beach - from then until the credits..... Lee Tamahori is to Bond, as eating too much cheese is to a bowel movement..
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    HASEROT wrote:
    Where have Bond films stopped being Bond films?? hmm...

    Moonraker - when Bond goes to space..

    Die Another Day - right around the time Bond runs up on the beach - from then until the credits..... Lee Tamahori is to Bond, as Michael Bay is to Transformers.

    Difference: Transformers can at least be entertaining, even with Michael Bay at the helm.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    Agent007391 wrote:
    HASEROT wrote:
    Where have Bond films stopped being Bond films?? hmm...

    Moonraker - when Bond goes to space..

    Die Another Day - right around the time Bond runs up on the beach - from then until the credits..... Lee Tamahori is to Bond, as Michael Bay is to Transformers.

    Difference: Transformers can at least be entertaining, even with Michael Bay at the helm.

    there we go.... i edited it - to a more appropriate analogy... :)

  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    HASEROT wrote:
    Where have Bond films stopped being Bond films?? hmm...

    Moonraker - when Bond goes to space..

    Die Another Day - right around the time Bond runs up on the beach - from then until the credits..... Lee Tamahori is to Bond, as eating too much cheese is to bowel movement..

    This works better, and leaves disturbing images in my head.
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    Posts: 3,494
    HASEROT wrote:
    Where have Bond films stopped being Bond films?? hmm...

    Moonraker - when Bond goes to space..

    Die Another Day - right around the time Bond runs up on the beach - from then until the credits..... Lee Tamahori is to Bond, as eating too much cheese is to a bowel movement..

    Agreed. Every time we got a Moore era sight/sound gag, CGI surfing, or Austin Powers like cheesy one liners, Bond movies became nothing they should ever be.
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    fire_and_ice wrote:
    Pretty much every scene bond has with Electra, i don't believe bond would be so easily taken in by her. Every time i hear the line 'There is no point in living, if you can't feel alive' i cringe.

    Aw man, no! I respect your opinion for sure, and am not trying to criticize in any way, but I love the scenes with Elektra, especially when he confronts her after the theft of the plutonium and explains "Stockholm Syndrome" and all that. It's a classic 007 moment! And of course, my all time favorite moment in any Bond movie really, is when Bond shoots Elektra dead. Just too good for words to describe. And who did this? Oh yes, Pierce Brosnan!
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    Posts: 3,494
    The Bond/Elektra storyline was good in idea, but poorly scripted and too easy to see what was coming. Too much psychobabble in comparison to CR and TLD, where if you hadn't known what was going to happen, you were definitely taken in.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Shardlake wrote:
    I completely agree and RM was my Bond, SWLM on the big screen in 1977 was my first Bond experience but as I've got older Moore's films are the ones that make me groan the most (I've tried to erase PB's).

    Moore might well say he took the element from Fleming's idea that Bond was a man who didn't actually like killing but he makes so light of it in most of his films I don't believe him one bit, he played Bond like some millionaire playboy with no concern for public property and just looks like he's having a whale of a time so no he's nothing like the literary Bond and is responsible for the whole cheesy interpretation that Joe public find it so hard to separate the character

    Much as I love a bit of Rog I find it hard to argue with this. If you ask Joe Public to outline what they consider to be the average Bond film it would be a template for a Rog film.

    Its largely the Rog era that is ultimately responsible for Austin Powers and DAD.
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    Posts: 3,494
    @ Wizard- It appeared that most of the early AP spoofs came from the Connery classics, but no question the lighter hearted style of the Moore films opened up the door. They probably looked at films like MR and decided there were enough jokes and gags that they couldn't spoof Bond any worse.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    SirHenryLeeChaChing wrote:
    @ Wizard- It appeared that most of the early AP spoofs came from the Connery classics, but no question the lighter hearted style of the Moore films opened up the door. They probably looked at films like MR and decided there were enough jokes and gags that they couldn't spoof Bond any worse.

    I agree that Austin Powers mostly references YOLT and DAF but at the time, sitting between the first 4 fairly Fleming faithful films and OHMSS, YOLT was a one off. It was from DAF (which I would say is stylistically actually the first Rog film) onwards until FYEO that made this style of comedy romp entrenched in the public conciousness as being the blueprint for Bond.

    In fairness to YOLT it is played pretty straight and theres not many comedy moments in it. Hence for me it is the most tense of the 'epic' Gilbert films when the entire human race is at stake. I dont think TSWLM and MR have the same suspense as when Bond is trying to board the intruder rocket (of course Barrys sensational foreboding score helps here).
  • jackdaggerjackdagger
    Posts: 498
    The most out of character moment to me is the Bond/Vesper "armor" scene in CR. That dialogue makes me cringe. Bond was NEVER that sappy, even with Tracy (Or the CR novel for that matter).
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    jackdagger wrote:
    The most out of character moment to me is the Bond/Vesper "armor" scene in CR. That dialogue makes me cringe. Bond was NEVER that sappy, even with Tracy (Or the CR novel for that matter).

    Haha, that entire conversation is just....strange, to say the least! One of those face-palm, "oh my goodness" moments.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    00Beast wrote:
    jackdagger wrote:
    The most out of character moment to me is the Bond/Vesper "armor" scene in CR. That dialogue makes me cringe. Bond was NEVER that sappy, even with Tracy (Or the CR novel for that matter).

    Haha, that entire conversation is just....strange, to say the least! One of those face-palm, "oh my goodness" moments.
    CR is my top, but I can admit that is a little weird seeing out of Bond.
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