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its funny you mention the holocaust.... because there are quite a few who believe it didn't happen as well....
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t553062/
how ignorance is allowed to procreate is astonishing to me - there should be a law.
However, we shouldn´t loose sight over far greater tragedies that happened and learn about them. TITANIC´s legacy and fame was pushed by films and books over the years, but does anyone remember the Wilhelm Gustloff sinking in 1945 with around 9.000 refugees who died? Just let this incredible number go through your head for a bit.
Have a look at this brilliant website to check the facts and see how that far greater tragedy looked like: http://www.wilhelmgustloff.com/index.htm
The MS Estonia sinking didn´t have these high losses, but still only 138 of almost 1000 people on board were saved. The latest accident with the Costa Concordia in Italy needlessly cost 39 lives and probably even more. Both were a result of human failure!
TITANIC and all it´s glory was the 9/11 of it´s day and that´s why we and so many others still carry this story in our hearts and minds.
Ironically wasnt it the Nuremburg law that addressed this in the 30s?
That said I totally agree with you. What ever happened to natural selection? These days we keep idiots alive with handouts and allow them to procreate in ever greater numbers meaning in a few thousand years the human gene pool will have been diluted to a point where we cant even create fire any more.
Thanks for that - never heard of the Wilhelmgustloff.
I'm not an expert but wasnt the Estonia due to the bow door shearing off in heavy seas rather than human failure?
I suppose you can argue that poor design is human failure.
Very good movie and its easy to see where James Cameron got his influences from. I've always liked his film though - even though its "cool" to hate it.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/search-engine-results-reveal-teens-dont-know-who-obl-is/
True, the design wasn´t sufficient for the rough Baltic Sea where the Estonia sank. Human Failure in that case only applies to the [...]"combination of not latching the vehicle level visor properly and not distributing the weight of the cargo evenly through which the ship listed and took on water."[...] http://voices.yahoo.com/the-carnival-splendor-other-passenger-7156650.html
I´m no maritime expert, but there is always a human error element somewhere.
For the most recent event in Italy, I hope the Captain of the Costa Concordia goes to prison for his incredible mixture of recklessness and cowardice. His quote "I accidentally stumbled into a lifeboat" says it all.
Even in an Italian court he has to get 10 years at least.
In most disasters of this sort its usually a combination of many tiny human errors. Titanic had loads: not enough lifeboats, binoculars locked away, going too fast, slightly cheaper rivets, incorrect manouvering when ice was sighted, the guy in the Californian turning off his radio.
And then the weather being dead calm and moonless. Take any one of these out of the equation and most people if not all survive.
Not because of the movie though.
A local newspaper reprinted an interview with a survivor that they had from years before. After the ship sank he said the noise of the people left in the water like a football crowd.
That was when I "got" it.
I heard them on TV...totally priceless indeed. I hope he gets 10 years. He´ll never work as a captain again thank god. This was his 2nd accident.
Titanic, as you said, is full of human errors. I´m not sure about the Californian - sure, they turned the radio off but did ask TITANIC before if they needed help and they were given a false position. TITANIC was in fact further away from the Californian than the officers had thought. It was wrong thinking at the time, everybody thought the ship was truly unsinkable...a rumour not brought into circulation by the owners but by a newspaper report. 100 years later, too many people still believe far too much that´s circulating in the media.
Correct. Titanics radio operator told the Californian to shut up because his headphones were on full volume while he sent the passenger messages. The incoming signals must have been disturbingly loud. Titanic had received over 12 ice warnings at that point.
The radio operator on the Californian went away from the radio but was ordered back by Captain Lord because they had seen lights and rockets at the horizon and weren´t sure if it´s another ship or the stars reflecting on the water. Lord wanted the operator to check for messages - that´s when they caught the distress signal with the wrong position coordinates. That Captain Lord didn´t decide to rush to the aid of the sinking Titanic was later proven in court and he lost his job and reputation over it.
Murphy´s Law - everything that could go wrong that nicht, went wrong
From what I remember studying, she was designed to remain afloat even with a torn off bow, so long as no more than four of her watertight compartments were breached. The ship would have been disabled, sure, but passengers would have been able to remain on board until rescue arrived.
It also didn't help that the Atlantic waters were frigid. Back then, even Thomas Andrews would not have known about the ductility of metals under various temperatures, something engineers account for all the time now. What this means is the iron was not designed to retain it's properties under cold temperatures and became very brittle, shattering under applied load.
The weather was colder than usual for April, and people simply wouldn't have survived for long in the 35 degree waters of the Atlantic that night, Cameron's film, despite how I feel personally, represents the water scenes very well for what actually happened, it would of been curtains for anybody left in the ocean that night
Here's a quick run down of the events of the night while the memory is still fresh in our minds
April 10
9-11am / Passengers board ship at Southampton docks, the ship sets sail at midday
6-20pm The Titanic arrives at Cherbourg, France to pick up more passengers
April 11
11-15 am Arrives at Cork, Republic Of Ireland (then Queenstown) to pick up more passengers, this would be the last stopping point before the disaster
April 12 & 13
The liner sails towards New York through the east Atlantic in peaceful waters
April 14
During the course of the day a high number of Iceberg warnings are recieved by the ship's radio operators
11-40 pm, Lookout on the Titanic spots an iceberg looming large ahead. The Iceberg strikes the ship on her starboard side towards the front end (Bow)
11-50pm, Water rushes in and rises to a level of five meters at front of vessel
12-00am, Captain E J Smith is told the ship will sink and has little more than two hours to stay afloat, he gives the order to call for assistance
April 15
12-05am, Orders for lifeboats to be used are issued, as are passengers and crew to assemble on deck, there is room only for less than half the total number on board (2,210 estimated)
12-27am, Lifeboats fill up with women and children as priority, The Carpathia, 59 miles south east of the Titanic's position picks up a distress call and is on route, four hours away
12-47am, The first lifeboat is lowered, it holds 65 persons, but only leaves with less than 30 on board. First distress rockets fired. Nine rockets estimated fired over liner
2-06am, The final lifeboat leaves the stricken liner, there are still over 1,500 persons on board The Titanic at this time
2-16am, The last radio message from the ship is sent. Captain Smith, announces 'that it's every man for himself'
2-20am, The Titanic, under severe pressure, breaks in half
2-22am, The stern of the ship seems to settle back, levelling for a short time, then fills with water and tilts before sinking
3-35am, The Carpathia's rockets are spotted by survivors on the lifeboats
4-12am, the first lifeboat is picked up by Carpathia
9-00am, The Carpathia leaves the area with some 720 survivors from the ship onboard
April 18
9-10pm, The Carpathia arrives in New York
April 19 - May 24
An inquiry is held in the United States about what happened
April 22 - May 15
A number of ships are sent to the disaster zone to recover bodies - a little over 300 (from the 1,500 left on board), are recovered
May 3 - July 2
The British Board of Trades holds an inquiry into the disaster
(think I need a lie down after that)
lol.. being an american myself, if students can't even learn our nation's history - then whats the point of complicating their simple brains with world history... it's a sad state of affairs... i remember when i took history class in high school (10 years ago)... i dare say, i was probably the one out of 20 or so students who was actually paying attention, and understanding the material.... the rest either didn't care - or just stared at their text books like zombies...... one time, i remember answering questions the teacher was asking, and a girl leaned over and said "you're awfully smart at this."... i pointed to the text book and said, "all the answers are right here (you half wit)"...
Good point about the coldness. Never really thought about that before but it could certainly have been a factor in the shearing of the weak rivets. At any rate stronger rivets might have reduced the length of the tear crucially keeping it within the 4 watertight compartments.
Regarding smashing head on into the berg, I think we can all agree that this would have been the safest option in the time they had, but I defy anyone here to say that this is the course of action they would have chosen themselves on the night.
I dont care who you are or what your experience at sea is- you are on the bridge of the most famous and expensive ship in history on its maiden voyage. Your first instinct is not going to be to rationally calculate what is will best keep the ship afloat (particularly in view of the fact that I doubt the whole concept about making sure no more than 4 watertight compartments were flooded was hammered home to the crew) and keep the bow pointing directly for the berg but what is going to save your job.
If the Titanic had limped into New York with its bow completely smashed, then no one at the White Star Line would have wanted to say 'we were going too fast, had ignored repeated ice warnings and had no binoculars but thanks to the heroic decision making on the bridge everyone was saved'. They would have said 'the officer on the bridge reacted to slowly. We could have easily missed the berg but for the ineptitude of this man who has now been sacked.'
An investigation would conclude that the berg would have been missed if they had ported around it correctly and I doubt the idea that it could have grazed the berg and breached 5 compartments would have even arisen. Murdoch would have carried the can and would have struggled to get another job after such a high profile 'mistake'. None of us would ever have heard of the story and no one would be aware he was a hero. Such are the miliseconds of fate that can determine our lives and the lives, in this instance, of thousands.
This article: http://titanic-model.com/db/db-02/rm-db-2.html
is quite informative particularly in view of the 'porting around' manouvere which would have avoided collision and in respect of Captain Lord who was vilified but actually took very stringent measures against the ice in terms of speed and lookouts that Smith (under duress from Ismay? Although I dont think this has ever been proved) did not.
We *learn* about the Sumerians, Egyptians, and later the early Chinese. Then we go on to Europe, the Renaissance, onto Industrialization and exploration, and from there on to South America and up to modern times.
Whether individuals pay attention, is a different story. But I remember learning a lot about Titanic in 4th-6th grade. But nothing since.
We have programs that allow students to take college courses while in high school. My school is a high school - community college hybrid. I take high school classes the first two years to earn my diploma, and then I take college courses the last 2-3 years at a community college. Its all paid for too.
I focused my college work on political science and history, so I've had a lot of international study, but its not the normal amount. I graduate next month with a high school diploma and an Associates Degree.
Do you learn about World War 1and 2?
Yes, yes of course. Stunningly, I learned most about WW1 & WW2 from American history and our involvement. Not necessarily the international stories. But we did cover that in my college courses.
But in my basic education through high school, we considered 'modern times' WWII and on for some reason. Not very modern to me if its a century old!
Also: I didn't know the titanic stopped in Cork. My Irish side of the family comes from there.
as for the World Wars, we did touch briefly on what the causes were in the international arena, which lead to the wars, and our eventual involvement..
we do learn about other countries and some world history as well - whether the student chooses to retain the information, well - thats up to the individual....
but i remember learning about the history of the Sumerians, Egyptians... Greek and Roman history - a little bit Chinese history, but not a lot - i remember having to do a report on China in 7th grade, as well as Slovakia - why Slovakia?.. as part of an assignment, each student in our class got a country we had to study and report about to the class............ in a way - i miss school lol.
I sincerely doubt that. What I know for sure is, that what you wrote above applied to Titanics band. After the sinking, White Star stated several times, that the musicians weren´t part of the employed crew and so their relatives couldn´t get any money or claim anything from White Star. The fiancee of violinist John Law Hume was pregnant at the time and was told, to re-apply for money from the Titanic Relief Fund once she had born the baby.
http://www.titanic-titanic.com/warnings.shtml