1980's - The Forgotten Decade

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Comments

  • Posts: 1,492
    marymoss wrote:
    [
    But isn't this what matters? I'm not sayng quality isn't important--obviously, it is but if people aren't going to the theatre (and apparently, the box office was lower on TD's second film than his first), then what good is it? The only way EON can contiue doing Bond films is if they bring in the money.

    Bond would have always come back with or without Brosnan. It would never have been cancelled. If UA didnt want to do it then other studios would have picked it up.

    Bond is a cashcow and is forever.

  • edited April 2012 Posts: 306
    actonsteve wrote:
    Bond would have always come back with or without Brosnan. It would never have been cancelled. If UA didnt want to do it then other studios would have picked it up.

    I completely disagree. If they would have used another actor and it didn't work out, Bond would have been done
  • Posts: 176
    actonsteve wrote:
    marymoss wrote:
    [
    But isn't this what matters? I'm not sayng quality isn't important--obviously, it is but if people aren't going to the theatre (and apparently, the box office was lower on TD's second film than his first), then what good is it? The only way EON can contiue doing Bond films is if they bring in the money.

    Bond would have always come back with or without Brosnan. It would never have been cancelled. If UA didnt want to do it then other studios would have picked it up.

    Bond is a cashcow and is forever.

    I agree with this. I'm not saying another actor couldn't have done what Bronsan did. I'm just saying audiences appreciated him so much more than Dalton.

  • Posts: 1,492
    [
    I agree the money is important. But I would put the content of the films above the cash. I think after Dalton, EON were too affraid to take the series fowards.

    .

    i agree. They played very safe after LTK. The Brosnan era went backwards and the series lost its edge.

    Until 2006 that is.

  • edited April 2012 Posts: 11,189
    Bonds always been a "family" affair. While It would be interesting to see how other studios would have handled it I'm glad they didn't.

    The reason EON 'played it safe' was because LTK was a BIG disappointment

    A darker film in 1995 really wouldn't have worked. It was in the middle of the 'cheesey action movie' decade.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 12,837
    actonsteve wrote:

    And he has got the critical and fan reaction that Brosnan could ever dream of.

    There were alot of people saying Brosnan was the best since Connery, and his films weren't popular but he was until Craig arrived. Not as strong as Craig maybe, but he was/is popular.
    BAIN123 wrote:
    The thing is Marymoss the intake for LTK wasn't just lower - it was MUCH lower. I think it's actually the least financially successful film of the series.

    The big difference the series is continuing this 'darker' direction with SF when they didn't really with GE was because of one thing - money. Both Craig's films have taken a lot of cash at the box office. People liked Craig in a way that Dalton could only have dreamed of.

    The marketing excuse is an old one. Yes the film was marketed badly and yes a lot of films were out that year but surely the fact it was a Bond should have been enough to sell it.

    Look at TSWLM - a film that came out the same year as Star Wars and did extremely well.

    Bond was more popular in the 70s. And Bonds popularity getting lower wasn't because of Dalton, TLD outgrossed AVTAK, it started in the early 80s with Moore (wasn't his fault either though)

    Like you said, the darker direction is more popular now, which is one of the reasons why I think Dalton is so great. He was ahead of his time, and I feel bad for him. Back then, even though the critics liked it, the public didn't like the dark violent direction.

    But today, with films like Bourne doing well, people like the more realistic films and that's why I think CR did so well. Like I said, I think Dalton was ahead of his time.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    I should have been in charge at EON.

    http://www.listal.com/list/my-ultimate-james-bond-timeline

    ;;)
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 11,189
    I've had a look at the us box office for the films in the 80s. Most of Moore's films did pretty well with OP being the most successful (thankfully it's also a bloody good film).

    Daltons weren't as popular in the states and LTK was (I was genuinely surprised at this) 36. That's bad for any Bond film.

    I feel bad for dalton but it's clear that a lot of people just didn't like him. I've heard people describe him as dull or boring.
  • Posts: 12,837
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I've had a look at the us box office for the films in the 80s. Most of Moore's films did pretty well with OP being the most successful (thankfully it's also a bloody good film).

    Daltons weren't as popular in the states and LTK was (I was genuinely surprised at this) 36. That's bad for any Bond film.

    I don't care if the americans didn't like it, I still think LTK is the best film of all time
  • Posts: 11,189
    It's bad that Americans didn't like a film that's SET in America and takes it's story from American current affairs.

    In theory the Americans should have loved it.
  • Posts: 1,492
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I'
    I feel bad for dalton but it's clear that a lot of people just didn't like him. I've heard people describe him as dull or boring.

    Your doing this again Bain stating other peoples opinions as fact in an argument. So what? My granny never liked Bournemouth. Does this make Bournemouth a bad place? No. Its one or two peoples opinions. You were doing this on another thread.

    I still say that Daltons two films are two jewells in the series - mature, edgy and something new. Something that we had not seen before. They had a matureness that we would not see for a very long time after they ended.

  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    edited April 2012 Posts: 3,262
    actonsteve wrote:
    marymoss wrote:
    [
    But isn't this what matters? I'm not sayng quality isn't important--obviously, it is but if people aren't going to the theatre (and apparently, the box office was lower on TD's second film than his first), then what good is it? The only way EON can contiue doing Bond films is if they bring in the money.

    Bond would have always come back with or without Brosnan. It would never have been cancelled. If UA didnt want to do it then other studios would have picked it up.

    Bond is a cashcow and is forever.

    Agreed. For good or ill, put the name of James Bond on a film and it's bound to make money.
    BAIN123 wrote:
    It's bad that Americans didn't like a film that's SET in America and takes it's story from American current affairs.

    In theory the Americans should have loved it.

    Perhaps its American setting is why American audiences didn't love it. Part of the appeal of the Bond series to me as an American fan is the armchair traveller bit, i.e., going to exotic places such as Europe and the Far East. It's too bad LTK wasn't made in China as originally intended. That would've been an excellent foreign location for a Bond film.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 11,189
    @actonsteve

    But Dalton, when compared to Connery, Moore, Brosnan and Craig IS considered a 'lesser Bond' by and large. Im not saying that's necessarily true but I strongly believe that if u ask people who their favourite Bond was most would say one of the four names above.
  • Posts: 1,492
    BAIN123 wrote:
    @actonsteve

    But Dalton, when compared to Connery, Moore, Brosnan and Craig IS considered a 'lesser Bond' by and large. Im not saying that's necessarily true but I strongly believe that if u ask people who their favourite Bond was most would say one of the four names above.

    Believing is not evidence. Unless you do a survey of everyone who has seen a Bond film then it is conjecture. Its projection.

    Just because you dont like him it doesn mean everyone does.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 11,189
    I don't "not like' Dalton. I do, I think what he did was commendable but I'm just not his hugest fan.

    In regard to "evidence" though what about the disappointing US box office takings for his films? What about his appearances in other lightweight films like Looney Tunes: Back in Action (as a co-star). For a man who's meant to be a gifted actor we hardly see him in big, meaty films nowadays. He hasn't had the starring roles the "Big Four" have had on film.
  • Posts: 12,837
    BAIN123 wrote:
    In regard to "evidence" though what about the disappointing US box office takings for his films? What about his appearances in other lightweight films like Looney Tunes: Back in Action (as a co-star). For a man who's meant to be a gifted actor we hardly see him in big, meaty films nowadays. He hasn't had the starring roles the "Big Four" have had on film.

    Dalton seems to be happy, I don't think he really wants to be a big film star, he just wants to be an actor. And I think he's doing well enough. He gets work (looney tunes, hotfuzz, the tourist, doctor who), and probably has much more money than most people.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 11,189
    If Daltons happy that's fine but surely going from the big stage and Katherine Hepburn films to Hot Fuzz is a bit of a step down. Most of the films/programmes Dalton's been in in the last 20 years have hardly tested his acting abilities.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 12,837
    BAIN123 wrote:
    If Daltons happy that's fine but surely going from the big stage and Katherine Hepburn films to Hot Fuzz is a bit of a step down.

    I think he still does some stuff on the stage. And Hot Fuzz was great and made alot of money, and I think Dalton said it was the most fun he'd ever had making a film. Don't really see how that's a step down.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 11,189
    BAIN123 wrote:
    If Daltons happy that's fine but surely going from the big stage and Katherine Hepburn films to Hot Fuzz is a bit of a step down.

    I think he still does some stuff on the stage. And Hot Fuzz was great and made alot of money, and I think Dalton said it was the most fun he'd ever had making a film. Don't really see how that's a step down.

    He did. I love him in Hot Fuzz and you can see he's having a ball BUT it's not exactly a high-brow drama is it. I suspect Craig wouldn't be caught dead in a film like that.
  • Posts: 12,837
    BAIN123 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    If Daltons happy that's fine but surely going from the big stage and Katherine Hepburn films to Hot Fuzz is a bit of a step down.

    I think he still does some stuff on the stage. And Hot Fuzz was great and made alot of money, and I think Dalton said it was the most fun he'd ever had making a film. Don't really see how that's a step down.

    He did. I love him in Hot Fuzz and you can see he's having a ball BUT it's not exactly a high-brow drama is it.

    No, but it is a very funny, highly praised comedy that was very successful.
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 11,189
    BAIN123 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    If Daltons happy that's fine but surely going from the big stage and Katherine Hepburn films to Hot Fuzz is a bit of a step down.

    I think he still does some stuff on the stage. And Hot Fuzz was great and made alot of money, and I think Dalton said it was the most fun he'd ever had making a film. Don't really see how that's a step down.

    He did. I love him in Hot Fuzz and you can see he's having a ball BUT it's not exactly a high-brow drama is it.

    No, but it is a very funny, highly praised comedy that was very successful.

    Agreed it's a funny film and he easily steals the show but it doesn't really test his abilities as a serious film actor does it? I think part of the reason he's so much fun in HF is because he can play on his theatrical roots and go over-the-top.
  • Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote:
    "Frankly, I don't know why Dalton not being a film star should make any difference. So the public didn't take to him as much as the other Bonds, what do they know?"

    Well they do ultimately keep the series going. Yes they're fickle as hell but without them there would be no Bond.

    I've often wished that the series had ended in 1989, preserving Bond as he was.

    marymoss wrote:
    The forgotten decade, seeing as there's a thread about it, it can't be that forgotten. :D And I rather like the 1980's.

    - Dalton as Bond.
    - Sylvester McCoy as The 7th Doctor
    - The Friday The 13th films
    - 8 of my favourite actresses were born in the 1980's
    - Alfa Romeo unveiled the 33, the 75, the 164 and the SZ
    - And I was born in the 1980's


    Frankly, I don't know why Dalton not being a film star should make any difference. So the public didn't take to him as much as the other Bonds, what do they know? They lap up so much of the junk on tv, if they don't take to something en masse, that could only be a sign of quality. Brosnan may have brought the money, but he failed to get a proper grasp on Bond and take the films in a new direction.

    But isn't this what matters? I'm not sayng quality isn't important--obviously, it is but if people aren't going to the theatre (and apparently, the box office was lower on TD's second film than his first), then what good is it? The only way EON can contiue doing Bond films is if they bring in the money.

    I agree the money is important. But I would put the content of the films above the cash. I think after Dalton, EON were too affraid to take the series fowards.

    I'm possibly in the minority, but i'd rather a Bond with lower BO takings thar delivers a new style, rather than a Bond with greater BO takings but is nothing more than a greatest hits.

    I sympathise with your view. I share the feeling that in a way, Dalts was the last proper Bond (as much as I like DC). The end of the Cold War has created a bit of a problem for Bond. The Cold War just set the tone for everything, even though the Commies were rarely, if ever, the actual baddies. In many ways Bourne captured this post-cold war feel much better than Bond - the ambiguity and lack of clear defining ideological lines.

    Still, I'm a sucker for them and will still go and see them at the cinema regardless, even when I know they're gonna stink (GE to DUD, inclusive).
  • Posts: 176
    Personally, I think the fans spoke at the box office. They voiced their displeasure of Dalton by not seeing his second monie. They voiced their approval of Brosnan by his numbers going up.
  • Posts: 4,762
    actonsteve wrote:
    00Beast wrote:
    Yes, the '80s is definitely under-rated, as is the '90s. The time period of 1981 (FYEO) up until 1999 (TWINE) is my idea of the Golden Bond Era, no doubt about it. FYEO, OP, AVTAK, TLD, LTK, GE, TND, and TWINE are all in my top ten if I remember correctly, so that about sums up my thoughts!

    Please do not lump the nineties trash in with the eighties. The eighties were something special. Cubby was still at the helm and we had some good solid stories with the Cold War in the background giving it spice.

    Characterisation came back in the eighties with three dimensional writing for Melina Havelock, Kara Milovy, Franz Sanchez and James Bond. The nineties went back to seventies cartooon characters. With the eighties you had character motivation all the way through, superb stunts that didnt rely on cgi and the rock solid talents of Cubby Broccoli, Richard Maibaum, Peter Lamont and especially John Barry.

    The last gasp of greatness until 2006 came along.

    GoldenEye, Tomorrow Never Dies, and The World is not Enough are just about as classic as you can get! I certainly applause the 1990's for bringing these three legends to the Bond series, and largely due in part to the man himself, Pierce Brosnan. I'd say that 3 dimensional characters in the '90s were Alec Trevelyan, General Ourumov, Xenia Onatopp, Elektra King, Renard, Sir Robert King, and Natalya Simonova. Only the characters in TND were less dimensional, but I still think they're iconic legends, except for Paris Carver, who I can't stand no matter what!
  • 00Beast wrote:
    I'd say that 3 dimensional characters in the '90s were Alec Trevelyan, General Ourumov, Xenia Onatopp, Elektra King, Renard, Sir Robert King, and Natalya Simonova.

    I wholeheartedly agree. Anyone who says there weren't good characters in the nineties is missing something.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    The forgotten decade, seeing as there's a thread about it, it can't be that forgotten. :D And I rather like the 1980's.

    - Dalton as Bond.
    - Sylvester McCoy as The 7th Doctor- The Friday The 13th films
    - 8 of my favourite actresses were born in the 1980's
    - Alfa Romeo unveiled the 33, the 75, the 164 and the SZ
    - And I was born in the 1980's

    You can squeeze a mention for Sylvester McCoy into a Bond thread like no one else I know Major ;)
  • Posts: 11,189
    I like the 80s because yours truely entered this world :)
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I like the 80s because yours truely entered this world :)

    What better reason is there my friend? ;)
  • edited April 2012 Posts: 1,082
    FYEO is tenth on my list, while I like OP a little more. AVTAK is in my top 5, but Dalton's movies, while good, are ranked low. So not my favorite decade, but still a good one. My favorite decade is the 1970s.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited April 2012 Posts: 4,399
    00Beast wrote:
    GoldenEye, Tomorrow Never Dies, and The World is not Enough are just about as classic as you can get! I certainly applause the 1990's for bringing these three legends to the Bond series, and largely due in part to the man himself, Pierce Brosnan. I'd say that 3 dimensional characters in the '90s were Alec Trevelyan, General Ourumov, Xenia Onatopp, Elektra King, Renard, Sir Robert King, and Natalya Simonova. Only the characters in TND were less dimensional, but I still think they're iconic legends, except for Paris Carver, who I can't stand no matter what!

    While Brosnan's time was fun - his tenure was anything but classic.... GE is about the only film I would put under the 'classic' category... TND and TWINE weren't that special... in terms of 3 dimensional characters - just because a character has a backstory, doesn't make them 3 dimensional.... when i think of 3 dimensional - they go through a range of emotional growth throughout the film..... Natalya and Elektra are about the only 3 dimensional characters in your list... the one I think I laughed at the most, was Sir Robert King... lol really?.. he has a total of about 40 seconds of screen time and was a sacrificial lamb - and somehow he was a 3 dimensional character??

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