"Attempting re-entry", Moonraker appreciation thread

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  • Posts: 385
    cwl007 wrote: »
    I also think it encapsulates Cubby's mantra of every penny on the screen, the film looks expensive and makes good use of the globe trotting nature of the scenes.

    Agreed, and an element dearly missed with modern Bond.
  • Posts: 19,339
    MooreFun wrote: »
    cwl007 wrote: »
    I also think it encapsulates Cubby's mantra of every penny on the screen, the film looks expensive and makes good use of the globe trotting nature of the scenes.

    Agreed, and an element dearly missed with modern Bond.

    It WAS expensive,hence the toned-down,cheaper FYEO 2 years later.

  • Posts: 7,653
    barryt007 wrote: »
    MooreFun wrote: »
    cwl007 wrote: »
    I also think it encapsulates Cubby's mantra of every penny on the screen, the film looks expensive and makes good use of the globe trotting nature of the scenes.

    Agreed, and an element dearly missed with modern Bond.

    It WAS expensive,hence the toned-down,cheaper FYEO 2 years later.

    The expenses both on MR & FYEO were put on the screen, both movies look still more glamorous and glorious than the recent Craig/Mendes vehicles. I sincerely hope that the new director will put some of that back on the screen and some of the fun that CR did have but gradually eroded from the Craig era. Craig deserves to go out with a good movie. (as did Brosnan but that is another discussion)
  • Posts: 7,653
    As for Moonraker it is one of my favorite 007 movies, also my first by the way, but an entertaining movie that still looks good, has an outrageous name for a Bond woman, it took me some time to recognize that. It is one spectacular actioner and adventure movie, the kind Moore gave us more than any of the other 007 actors. TSWLM, MR, FYEO & OP are bloody brilliant entertainment, easily the best in their time.
  • edited July 2019 Posts: 3,333
    barryt007 wrote: »
    MooreFun wrote: »
    cwl007 wrote: »
    I also think it encapsulates Cubby's mantra of every penny on the screen, the film looks expensive and makes good use of the globe trotting nature of the scenes.

    Agreed, and an element dearly missed with modern Bond.

    It WAS expensive, hence the toned-down,cheaper FYEO 2 years later.
    That only happened due to Heaven's Gate costing UA an absolute fortune and being a total BO bomb, along with other major box office flops the same year, including Al Pacino'sCruising, Jodie Foster's Foxes and the rock-musical disaster that was Roadie. Though United Artists was still a thriving studio with a steady income provided by the James Bond, The Pink Panther and Rocky franchises, they still needed to trim the budget for their next big Bond feature. Basically, Cubby was forced to strip it back and forgo the excessive extravagance of MR, hence why he had to sell it as a back-to-basics. Of course, it really wasn't anything of the sort.
  • Posts: 11,425
    I do think though that EON think that way. After an OTT entry you try and bring it back to basics. DaD and CR being a prime example. You can't just feed the kids popcorn and slushies every day.
  • edited July 2019 Posts: 3,333
    Yet, TSWLM was OTT that preceded it @Getafix. You can't get anymore OTT than a half-fish villain who thinks he's Captain Nemo, plus a giant with metal teeth and superhuman strength, and of course Bond's submersible car. Still, we got MR afterwards. Heaven's Gate practically bankrupted the studio and led to its consequent demise. Budget was the only reason, otherwise Cubby would've given us another extravaganza of a similar scale to MR. Look at it another way, MR was hugely successful and the audience numbers didn't show any signs of dissatisfaction or fatigue. If anything, that started with FYEO.
  • Posts: 1,596
    They don't always tone it down after an OTT entry (TSWLM into MR being a good example of this) but they usually do, and I assume it is usually because of box office concerns, or a general sense that the following film may not perform so well.

    I'm thinking of:

    YOLT -> OHMSS (concerns about Lazenby's box office pull etc)

    MR -> FYEO (box office performance, United's financial struggles, etc)

    DAD -> CR (new bond, untested at the box office, the sheer bloat of DAD, etc)
  • Posts: 11,425
    bondsum wrote: »
    Yet, TSWLM was OTT that preceded it @Getafix. You can't get anymore OTT than a half-fish villain who thinks he's Captain Nemo, plus a giant with metal teeth and superhuman strength, and of course Bond's submersible car. Still, we got MR afterwards. Heaven's Gate practically bankrupted the studio and led to its consequent demise. Budget was the only reason, otherwise Cubby would've given us another extravaganza of a similar scale to MR. Look at it another way, MR was hugely successful and the audience numbers didn't show any signs of dissatisfaction or fatigue. If anything, that started with FYEO.

    Not disagreeing with you about TSWLM and MR. But there's commercial sense in mixing things up as well, otherwise you just end up with diminishing returns - I imagine.
  • edited July 2019 Posts: 3,333
    I agree @ThighsOfXenia. I believe it was after YOLT that United Artists was purchased by the Transamerica Corporation, which most certainly played some part in how OHMSS would be co-financed, but not so much in how it would look. The back-to-basics of OHMSS was mostly down to its director, Peter Hunt, who threw out all the old, overblown ideas (including a submersible Aston Martin) because he wanted to make it closer to the original book and not have the silliness of YOLT in it. He actually fought with the studios and the producers because they still wanted to have a more fantastical approach. Fortunately, Hunt won all his arguments.

    As I pointed out, MR was a huge box office success in '79. Realistically, there was no real reason to change the winning formula and go back-to-basics. I admit that I wasn't a fan of the goofiness at the time, but the majority of cinemagoers were. Clearly it was a mistake to cutout the extravaganza from FYEO as it under-performed at the box office, certainly if you compare it to MR or TSWLM. This downward trajectory would continue right up until Brosnan reversed it over a decade and a half later with GE. Let's not forget that Moore was refusing to sign his contract again, and there were talks of a new Bond taking over in FYEO. This was the main reason why a lot of the story was written as if it were for a different actor in the role. As soon as Moore signed on, it gave Cubby an excuse to reinstate some of the absurdity of both TSWLM and MR, albeit on a much smaller budget due to UA financial constraints.

    I think the circumstances of why and when the producers changed the styles were under a set of different circumstances. Again, DAD was hugely successful at the box office. The only reason Eon didn't give us DAD Part 2 was because the studio had finally gotten their hands on Fleming's Casino Royale and knew they couldn't really have Brosnan pretending to be a young recruit, unless they made drastic changes the narrative. Hence, why the decision to reboot the franchise was taken with a younger face. Factor in the rise in popularity of Jason Bourne and the drastic events of 9/11 and it's pretty clear to understand why the silliness was taken out in favour of a more sober tone. It's also worth remembering that we almost got a Jinx spin-off movie for a November/December 2004 release. The reason why this was pulled had nothing to do with Eon, as Barbara Broccoli and Michael G. Wilson were both furious at the decision. You can thank MGM for obtaining the rights to CR and wanting to press ahead with that movie instead.
  • Posts: 3,333
    Getafix wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    Yet, TSWLM was OTT that preceded it @Getafix. You can't get anymore OTT than a half-fish villain who thinks he's Captain Nemo, plus a giant with metal teeth and superhuman strength, and of course Bond's submersible car. Still, we got MR afterwards. Heaven's Gate practically bankrupted the studio and led to its consequent demise. Budget was the only reason, otherwise Cubby would've given us another extravaganza of a similar scale to MR. Look at it another way, MR was hugely successful and the audience numbers didn't show any signs of dissatisfaction or fatigue. If anything, that started with FYEO.

    Not disagreeing with you about TSWLM and MR. But there's commercial sense in mixing things up as well, otherwise you just end up with diminishing returns - I imagine.

    It's good PR and Cubby was the best at it in the business. Don't think for one minute that Cubby really wanted to reduce the budget for his MR follow-up if he had a choice in the matter. That was imposed on him by the studio from directly above. The irony is, you mention diminishing returns, which is exactly what happened as a result of FYEO and not because of MR. The commercial sense is not to change a winning formula when you're only two movies in, but to change it when it starts to show signs of fatigue or diminishing returns. TMWTGG was the first Bond movie to show signs of fatigue, which is why TSWLM ended up the way it is - a sort of greatest hits package. Spy was a huge box office global success and MR was its equal. The same cannot be said of FYEO, which saw another decline in the series. I understand what you're saying, I just don't see the logic in it if your movies are doing extremely well. Mid-course direction is something you only do if your audience wants it.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,433
    My 5 year old son is interested in watching a Bond film with me and would you agree that MR is probably the best one for a 5 year old to enjoy without a crazy amount of sex and violence?

    I agree with you. It's a good starting point. I've shown my son the following films:

    GF
    DAF
    TMWTGG
    TSWLM
    MR
    YOLT

    Wasn't sure where to go next. I started to show him FYEO but he got bored and so off it went. LOL! I was thinking AVTAK but it tends to get violent towards the end.

    His ranking is as follows:

    DAF
    MR
    TSWLM
    GF
    YOLT
    TMWTGG

    He frequently quotes DAF dialogue to me. LOL!
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    thedove wrote: »
    My 5 year old son is interested in watching a Bond film with me and would you agree that MR is probably the best one for a 5 year old to enjoy without a crazy amount of sex and violence?

    His ranking is as follows:

    DAF
    MR
    TSWLM
    GF
    YOLT
    TMWTGG

    He frequently quotes DAF dialogue to me. LOL!

    I'm glad we have such varied films in the franchise that there's usually one that hooks them in
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Today it s 40 years since the MOONRAKER world premiere. Biggest Bond success until GE 16 years later.
    I didn t get to see it at the cinema, but I am sure I would have loved it at the age I was. I have found some new appreciation for it lately.
  • Posts: 678
    I would have loved to see this epic movie at the big screen back then. Alas, I wasn't alive. C'est la vie.
  • Posts: 16,169
    I would have loved to see this epic movie at the big screen back then. Alas, I wasn't alive. C'est la vie.

    I can attest: it was wonderful on the big screen.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,433
    I happened to watch it at the drive-in with my family. I was a mere 10 years old. Sadly with the recent shift to higher graphic violence I haven't been able to take either my sons to the theatre to watch a Bond movie. (aged 8 and 14). But I digress.

    The thing I remember most was that they didn't show the pre-title sequence. All we saw was the gun barrel sequence right into the silhouette of Jaws falling into the net and then the theme song. It wasn't till I saw it on TV some years later that I saw the pre-title sequence.

  • BondStuBondStu Moonraker 6
    Posts: 373
    I LOVE Moonraker!
    It's James Bond. In space. With lasers.
    What's not to like?!?!
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,041
    Following up on what I wrote in June, I increasingly wonder why I rate MR only 7/10 as opposed to TSWLM at 8/10. But looking more closely I'll probably reduce my rating of TSWLM rather than increase MR's to correct that.
  • Max_The_ParrotMax_The_Parrot ATAC to St Cyril’s
    Posts: 2,426
    I find it an absolute blast from start to finish. Drax is deliciously droll, Jaws is back, it’s got space shuttles and space stations, zero gravity (and zero gravity jokes) and when I saw it at the cinema as a young boy I had a huge crush on Dolly! She’s adorable! Probably the Bond film I’ve watched more than any other.
  • edited October 2019 Posts: 1,596
    From a cinematographical, purely audio/visual standpoint, Moonraker is a better film than its lauded predecessor, except people excuse the silliness in TSWLM and berate it in MR. I think that's unfair overall, although MR does lean into its silliness in an egregious way that TSWLM, so I understand the grievance to an extent.

    I'm not saying TSWLM is inferior, on the whole, before people sick the hounds on me. I'm saying the two are both fantastic and are far closer in quality than many people seem willing to recognize. Just my take.

    I like to pop in this thread now and then to see the movie get some love.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    I'm rewatching the series in anticipation of the Craig films on 4K and I'm actually really excited to get around to MR again. I've had a blast with it in my past several viewings and it's managed to elevate beyond a horribly dull film into an exciting, adventurous installment over the years for me. I doubt I'll rank them this time around - undecided, only watched DN yesterday and will get to FRWL today - but I doubt MR is in my Bottom 5 any longer.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,134
    I would agree.

    For me, even though TSWLM is a great, MR is a better film. As you said, audiovisually it’s more impressive but it also has a better villain and Bond girl.

    The humour is silly in places, but so is Spy’s. Jaws dropping a stone on his foot or having him flap his hands while falling, that’s equally silly in my book.

    Moreover, I like Moore’s Bond better in MR too. In Spy, that one scene with Anya notwithstanding, he acts like total prick sometimes: “Women drivers.”
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I used to vastly prefer TSWLM to MR, but now it is the other way around.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Moonraker used to be near the very bottom of my list but now it's my #2 Bond film.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    Murdock wrote: »
    Moonraker used to be near the very bottom of my list but now it's my #2 Bond film.

    Very nice! What a massive reassessment that was for your ranking.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Moonraker used to be near the very bottom of my list but now it's my #2 Bond film.

    Very nice! What a massive reassessment that was for your ranking.

    I always liked pieces of it as far as I remember. But in recent years, It just keeps getting better and better. It's just a complete joy. Everyone is just at the top of their games. The acting is great, the effects are great, and the music is great. I just love Moonraker.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Murdock wrote: »
    Moonraker used to be near the very bottom of my list but now it's my #2 Bond film.

    And you are sure you just didn t read your list upside down?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    Murdock wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Moonraker used to be near the very bottom of my list but now it's my #2 Bond film.

    Very nice! What a massive reassessment that was for your ranking.

    I always liked pieces of it as far as I remember. But in recent years, It just keeps getting better and better. It's just a complete joy. Everyone is just at the top of their games. The acting is great, the effects are great, and the music is great. I just love Moonraker.

    That's how it went for me, though perhaps not as extreme - there were always some moments I enjoyed, but the production as a whole seemed to grow much more exciting and bombastic with each viewing recently. It's a real fun time.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I still loathe it after they go to space, but (almost) everything before that is spectacular.
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