Brosnan's Last 3 Bond Films: The Problem?

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  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited January 2015 Posts: 17,789

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  • Posts: 11,425
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    Brosnan, IMO, wanted the role so badly that once he got it he was oddly constrained, caught between being a Connery Bond and a Moore Bond - pressured by commercial demands (after Dalton) and broad writing and directing (after GE) which failed to give him the material and freedom to create his own Bond. I believe Brosnan feels dis-satisfied with his time as Bond because he knows he could have been his own Bond if he'd really had the chance.

    Pretty much sums up my feeling. Brosnan knows enough about acting to tell that his own performances were pretty poor. He's said as much himself.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Getafix wrote: »
    Pretty much sums up my feeling. Brosnan knows enough about acting to tell that his own performances were pretty poor. He's said as much himself.

    Maybe he read your comments and felt that way. =))
  • Posts: 11,425
    Murdock wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    Pretty much sums up my feeling. Brosnan knows enough about acting to tell that his own performances were pretty poor. He's said as much himself.

    Maybe he read your comments and felt that way. =))

    May be...

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/10755167/Pierce-Brosnan-I-was-never-good-enough-as-Bond.html
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I saw the article and don't agree with it one bit. Pierce May not think he was good enough but that's only because EoN let him down. He did great with what he was given. He put his heart and soul into that and the least I can do is thank him for introducing me to the Bond franchise and being the reason why I watched his movies.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Getafix wrote: »
    Well then, that proves it.
    I've been on record as saying I could have been a better Bond than Connery, so I guess that's also true.
    Clooney says he messed up in Batman & Robin. He's also correct- it had nothing to do with the script or director.
    Lucas says Star Wars was severely lacking. Glad he got the chance to fix that crap movie, over & over...& over.

    :))
  • edited January 2015 Posts: 1,596
    What ever can be said about Moore and Brosnan, their performances as Bond did not get worse as time went by. Moore remained consistent during his tenure, and Brosnan actually improved as his era progressed. IMO I can't say the same about Connery, who, while still watchable in DAF and YOLT, was nowhere near to the level of his first 4 films.

    Well said, minus the melodramatic step backwards in TWINE.

    I also don't think Pierce was, by and large, the problem. And aside from TWINE and the majority of the back half of DAD I don't personally there is much of a problem.
  • Posts: 5,767
    If we want to talk about the last three, then I would say one big thing was that Campbell managed to give GE perhaps not the perfect look but a distinguished one, to say the least. The following films were more elegant here and there in their visual style, but also more bland, and they chose to ignore what Campbell offered them to build upon. Instead the producers chose to experiment. In a way, one could get the impression that they used Brosnan to prepare themselves for Craig.
  • edited January 2015 Posts: 11,425
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    Well then, that proves it.
    I've been on record as saying I could have been a better Bond than Connery, so I guess that's also true.
    Clooney says he messed up in Batman & Robin. He's also correct- it had nothing to do with the script or director.
    Lucas says Star Wars was severely lacking. Glad he got the chance to fix that crap movie, over & over...& over.

    :))

    Well, like you say, Clooney was correct. And he didn't need four films to work that one out...

    Not sure how that supports your argument that Brosnan was actually really good. Yes, the writing and directing may have been awful, but professional actors also take responsibility for their own performances. Ultimately, if an actor is being given substandard material and consistently poor directors, they can walk way. I have heard Brosnan blame the material but I've never heard him bad-mouth his directors. They may not have been Scorcese, but each of his directors had something to bring to the table. I think most people were pretty excited when Tamahori was announced. May be the actor bears some responsibility for not working well with any of his directors? I don't hear Craig complaining about the material in QoS, of Mark Forster, to make excuses for his performance in QoS, which was damn good any way, despite all the challenges.

    I'm not beating up on Brosnan, who I actually like - I'm just essentially repeating what he's said himself.

    It's worth noting that Brosnan never makes the general statment 'I can't watch myself on screen' that some actors use. He very specifically refers to not being able to watch his Bond performances. Why not actually give Broz the respect he deserves and take him at face value? Obviously everyone is free to disagree, but when a professional actor says he doesn't think much of his four performances as Bond, I think that's something worth paying attention to.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Didnt Laz also say that he thought of himself as "a s**t Bond" at some point?
  • edited January 2015 Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Didnt Laz also say that he thought of himself as "a s**t Bond" at some point?

    he doesn't know what he's talking about! ;)

  • Posts: 11,189
    I do remember him saying in the 90s that he didnt think OHMSS was a good film to start off with (I.e.as a rookie actor).
  • edited January 2015 Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I do remember him saying in the 90s that he didnt think OHMSS was a good film to start off with (I.e.as a rookie actor).

    I see where he's coming from! The great thing about Laz though is his vulnerability in the role, which must stem partly from his insecurity as an actor. I'd always heard Hunt didn't speak to Laz on set, and assumed this was because he didn't like him (which may also be true), but apparently it was a deliberate decision to keep Laz feeling isolated and alone. Hunt thought it would improve his performance. May be it did.

    Interesting I think. EON is famous for being a cosy family, and to be honest, that comes through in a lot of the movies. But OHMSS feels different, and Laz's performance does stand out for its vulnerability. You really have that sense of one man toughing it out. The scene where Bond is cornered at the ice rink and Tracy skates up is a classic.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I agree that Lazenby comes across as vulnerable at times in OHMSS, perhaps
    Because of his inexperience as an actor ?
  • Posts: 15,106
    Getafix wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    Well then, that proves it.
    I've been on record as saying I could have been a better Bond than Connery, so I guess that's also true.
    Clooney says he messed up in Batman & Robin. He's also correct- it had nothing to do with the script or director.
    Lucas says Star Wars was severely lacking. Glad he got the chance to fix that crap movie, over & over...& over.

    :))

    Well, like you say, Clooney was correct. And he didn't need four films to work that one out...

    Not sure how that supports your argument that Brosnan was actually really good. Yes, the writing and directing may have been awful, but professional actors also take responsibility for their own performances. Ultimately, if an actor is being given substandard material and consistently poor directors, they can walk way. I have heard Brosnan blame the material but I've never heard him bad-mouth his directors. They may not have been Scorcese, but each of his directors had something to bring to the table. I think most people were pretty excited when Tamahori was announced. May be the actor bears some responsibility for not working well with any of his directors? I don't hear Craig complaining about the material in QoS, of Mark Forster, to make excuses for his performance in QoS, which was damn good any way, despite all the challenges.

    I'm not beating up on Brosnan, who I actually like - I'm just essentially repeating what he's said himself.

    It's worth noting that Brosnan never makes the general statment 'I can't watch myself on screen' that some actors use. He very specifically refers to not being able to watch his Bond performances. Why not actually give Broz the respect he deserves and take him at face value? Obviously everyone is free to disagree, but when a professional actor says he doesn't think much of his four performances as Bond, I think that's something worth paying attention to.

    And an actor can also refuse to say some lines if he finds them stupid.

    I think Brosnan worked very hard to get the role, but never thought of how to work with it once he had it.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    Well then, that proves it.
    I've been on record as saying I could have been a better Bond than Connery, so I guess that's also true.
    Clooney says he messed up in Batman & Robin. He's also correct- it had nothing to do with the script or director.
    Lucas says Star Wars was severely lacking. Glad he got the chance to fix that crap movie, over & over...& over.

    :))

    Well, like you say, Clooney was correct. And he didn't need four films to work that one out...

    Not sure how that supports your argument that Brosnan was actually really good. Yes, the writing and directing may have been awful, but professional actors also take responsibility for their own performances. Ultimately, if an actor is being given substandard material and consistently poor directors, they can walk way. I have heard Brosnan blame the material but I've never heard him bad-mouth his directors. They may not have been Scorcese, but each of his directors had something to bring to the table. I think most people were pretty excited when Tamahori was announced. May be the actor bears some responsibility for not working well with any of his directors? I don't hear Craig complaining about the material in QoS, of Mark Forster, to make excuses for his performance in QoS, which was damn good any way, despite all the challenges.

    I'm not beating up on Brosnan, who I actually like - I'm just essentially repeating what he's said himself.

    It's worth noting that Brosnan never makes the general statment 'I can't watch myself on screen' that some actors use. He very specifically refers to not being able to watch his Bond performances. Why not actually give Broz the respect he deserves and take him at face value? Obviously everyone is free to disagree, but when a professional actor says he doesn't think much of his four performances as Bond, I think that's something worth paying attention to.

    And an actor can also refuse to say some lines if he finds them stupid.

    I think Brosnan worked very hard to get the role, but never thought of how to work with it once he had it.

    It was his to lose from the start. He was the one with the most buzz since 1986 when he first had it and then lost it. Nearly everyone wanted him, including the paparazzi, and I wanted him too. He should have done more with it imo. I think he tried. Sure he had crap scripts but he bears a lot of the blame too. I'm not knocking his efforts. Just, for the most part, the results.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Yes - he is the Gordon Brown of Bond actors. He coveted the crown for a decade but when he finally got his hands on it, he didn't have a clue what to do with it.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    The Gordon Brown analogy is a very appopriate one imo.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Yes, The Gordon Brown idea, works for me. :)
  • Posts: 5,767
    Brosnan playing Bond many times looks like he´s trying too hard. I didn´t notice that with any other Bond actor. I was a huge fan of Remington Steele and thought how cool it would be if that guy would be Bond. If Brosnan would just have repeated his Remington Steele thing, it wouldn´t have been a problem IMO. But he looked like he thought he has to be tougher and more versatile, and that kind of was a problem.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2015 Posts: 23,883
    boldfinger wrote: »
    Brosnan playing Bond many times looks like he´s trying too hard. I didn´t notice that with any other Bond actor. I was a huge fan of Remington Steele and thought how cool it would be if that guy would be Bond. If Brosnan would just have repeated his Remington Steele thing, it wouldn´t have been a problem IMO. But he looked like he thought he has to be tougher and more versatile, and that kind of was a problem.

    @Boldfinger well said. Exactly right. He looked like he was trying too hard, and I never understood it, because he did not need to do that. I think he played a better Bond (one more suited to him) in the Thomas Crown Affair (at least the way he takes advantage of Rene Russo's character) than he did as Bond. That and the emotionality/overt sentimentality he brought to Bond were not acceptable to me. That's my real criticism.

    When I saw Craig's Bond look at Vesper in the shower before he goes to comfort her, I knew Bond (at least the way he should show sentimentality towards women imo) was back.
  • Posts: 4,603
    Yes, perhaps he could relax in the Thomas Crown Affair but it is a little as if Bond took early retirement and decided to steal instead.
  • Posts: 11,425
    I do find it odd that I prefer Brosnan's performances in pretty much everything apart from Bond. I think he was sort of overwhelmed by the part.
  • Posts: 4,603
    The best film he appeared in? The Long Good Friday
  • Posts: 5,767
    Getafix wrote: »
    I do find it odd that I prefer Brosnan's performances in pretty much everything apart from Bond. I think he was sort of overwhelmed by the part.
    Yes, I think one can say that. If he would have taken the Moore route and shamelessly opted for limitedness he would have had no limits.

  • Posts: 15,106
    bondjames wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    Well then, that proves it.
    I've been on record as saying I could have been a better Bond than Connery, so I guess that's also true.
    Clooney says he messed up in Batman & Robin. He's also correct- it had nothing to do with the script or director.
    Lucas says Star Wars was severely lacking. Glad he got the chance to fix that crap movie, over & over...& over.

    :))

    Well, like you say, Clooney was correct. And he didn't need four films to work that one out...

    Not sure how that supports your argument that Brosnan was actually really good. Yes, the writing and directing may have been awful, but professional actors also take responsibility for their own performances. Ultimately, if an actor is being given substandard material and consistently poor directors, they can walk way. I have heard Brosnan blame the material but I've never heard him bad-mouth his directors. They may not have been Scorcese, but each of his directors had something to bring to the table. I think most people were pretty excited when Tamahori was announced. May be the actor bears some responsibility for not working well with any of his directors? I don't hear Craig complaining about the material in QoS, of Mark Forster, to make excuses for his performance in QoS, which was damn good any way, despite all the challenges.

    I'm not beating up on Brosnan, who I actually like - I'm just essentially repeating what he's said himself.

    It's worth noting that Brosnan never makes the general statment 'I can't watch myself on screen' that some actors use. He very specifically refers to not being able to watch his Bond performances. Why not actually give Broz the respect he deserves and take him at face value? Obviously everyone is free to disagree, but when a professional actor says he doesn't think much of his four performances as Bond, I think that's something worth paying attention to.

    And an actor can also refuse to say some lines if he finds them stupid.

    I think Brosnan worked very hard to get the role, but never thought of how to work with it once he had it.

    It was his to lose from the start. He was the one with the most buzz since 1986 when he first had it and then lost it. Nearly everyone wanted him, including the paparazzi, and I wanted him too. He should have done more with it imo. I think he tried. Sure he had crap scripts but he bears a lot of the blame too. I'm not knocking his efforts. Just, for the most part, the results.

    oh I agree. Everyone wanted Brosnan. The public, at least the American public, wanted Brosnan, the medias wanted Brosnan, the critics wanted Brosnan. Brosnan wanted Brosnan. The expectations were too high on all sides. But he should have done far better. People were ready to follow him I think, had he been daring. No Bond actor was ever as accepted before filming even started.
  • edited January 2015 Posts: 11,425
    Am I alone in having wanted Dalton to remain in the role in 95 and not actually having even heard of Brosnan before he was cast?
  • Posts: 11,189
    The ironic thing is that, now, you admire Brosnan and label Dalton a "loser".
  • edited January 2015 Posts: 7,507
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    Well then, that proves it.
    I've been on record as saying I could have been a better Bond than Connery, so I guess that's also true.
    Clooney says he messed up in Batman & Robin. He's also correct- it had nothing to do with the script or director.
    Lucas says Star Wars was severely lacking. Glad he got the chance to fix that crap movie, over & over...& over.

    :))

    Well, like you say, Clooney was correct. And he didn't need four films to work that one out...

    Not sure how that supports your argument that Brosnan was actually really good. Yes, the writing and directing may have been awful, but professional actors also take responsibility for their own performances. Ultimately, if an actor is being given substandard material and consistently poor directors, they can walk way. I have heard Brosnan blame the material but I've never heard him bad-mouth his directors. They may not have been Scorcese, but each of his directors had something to bring to the table. I think most people were pretty excited when Tamahori was announced. May be the actor bears some responsibility for not working well with any of his directors? I don't hear Craig complaining about the material in QoS, of Mark Forster, to make excuses for his performance in QoS, which was damn good any way, despite all the challenges.

    I'm not beating up on Brosnan, who I actually like - I'm just essentially repeating what he's said himself.

    It's worth noting that Brosnan never makes the general statment 'I can't watch myself on screen' that some actors use. He very specifically refers to not being able to watch his Bond performances. Why not actually give Broz the respect he deserves and take him at face value? Obviously everyone is free to disagree, but when a professional actor says he doesn't think much of his four performances as Bond, I think that's something worth paying attention to.

    And an actor can also refuse to say some lines if he finds them stupid.

    I think Brosnan worked very hard to get the role, but never thought of how to work with it once he had it.

    It was his to lose from the start. He was the one with the most buzz since 1986 when he first had it and then lost it. Nearly everyone wanted him, including the paparazzi, and I wanted him too. He should have done more with it imo. I think he tried. Sure he had crap scripts but he bears a lot of the blame too. I'm not knocking his efforts. Just, for the most part, the results.

    oh I agree. Everyone wanted Brosnan. The public, at least the American public, wanted Brosnan, the medias wanted Brosnan, the critics wanted Brosnan. Brosnan wanted Brosnan. The expectations were too high on all sides. But he should have done far better. People were ready to follow him I think, had he been daring. No Bond actor was ever as accepted before filming even started.

    But they did follow him idn't they? Brosnan was the best Bond since Connery before anyone saw him in the part. I think the hype only worked in his favor. People might have been more Critical if it wasn't for the fact that it was already decided that he was the best fit for the part. Compare that to what Laz and Craig had to deal with? And Dalton. He was labeled the second choice from the start... No, Broz was pretty lucky actually...
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