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That could be the key word as opposed to "grumpy" or "beefcake". The likes of Ford, Willis, Connery and Moore were experts at this. The cliché that Dalton "took things too seriously" does have an element of truth to it when compared to the other stars of the day. Maybe he just played it a bit too straight perhaps? I think people (then at least) liked that self mocking aspect of action heroes.
(I too also noticed Dalton's "goofy grin" @NicNac is talking about a couple of times - like in the scene when him and Kara are riding in the back of the horse carriage, you can see him awkwardly "holding" the smile).
I think he wanted to inject a sense that there was something really at stake. That these were real characters who you should actually care about.
The Willis and Ford wise-cracking was itself partly inspired by Bond. I think Dalton correctly felt that this ironic/throw away approach had been done to death, firstly by late era Connery, and then by the master himself, Sir Rog. By the mid 80s, everyone was essentially aping Bond.
What is it that people like about Craig? Essentially, it's that he injects some believeability back into the character. He's acting like he cares. Like something is actually at stake here. I think that's what Dalton was trying to do as well. And his performance was a deliberate, conscious rejection of the lighter cartoonish action heros around at the time.
He definitely was ahead of his time, and I don't think EON fully knew how to recalibrate. Not until Bourne, did a major spy movie show that this approach could work, and be commercially successful. And not until CR did we get a Bond movie that arguably really matched the approach that Dalton was going for - fully committed to the action, hard edged, top quality acting.
May be Dalton doesn't pull off some of the romance, but I've actually always felt the Bond-Kara relationship is one of the most genuinely convincing in the series. Not an epic love match like Bond and Tracy or even Bond and Vesper, but one of the better ones.
Look, I'm not saying TLD and LTK are perfect - far from it. But I think they're very solid entries, and without Dalton, the late 80s to early 2000s would have been a very barren period in the box set.
One of the arguments I've heard about the first DH and why it's still so popular is because John McClane is NOT the typical action hero. Yes he's in good shape but he's still set up to be a burnt out street-wise cop who happens to end up in a tough situation. At the end of the film he's exhausted and in a mess. In other words an ordinary bloke taking on the improbable. It's more the later films he becomes the cartoony action hero.
Likewise I remember hearing an interview with George Lucas who said "Indy gets through situations but barely". Doesn't the same kind of Dalton's Bond? A cynical figure who had seen it all before. The main difference is that Willis, Ford and Connery could ease the humour convincingly into their characters.
Agreed, but we must add Arnie, Mel and of course the legendary Sir Roger Moore (the benchmark post-Connery) to this mix as well. While not weary, there was an effortlessness to the delivery - like an extension of oneself or one's personality in all cases.
Early Bond was definitely the template though.
Fair points. At the original Die Hard is a cinematic high point.
I guess saying that yes may be Dalton did want to get away from some of the overly flippant humour - we know he can do it if required, but he wanted his Bond to be Dalton. What I'm trying to get at is that Dalton's Bond feels like he's genuinely invested in the situation. He also comes across as (perhaps) a real person. He might be in crazy situations, but he plays it as if this were a real human character.
Willis perhaps manages to do that in Die Hard, but he's a different type of character - a working class cop.
I don't think Dalton was trying to be or wanted to be like those other Hollywood actors.
At the end of the day you either like him or you don't. I just think the series would be much poorer without those two movies. OP would have been the last decent one in my book, until CR.
That's very true, but I think EON has learned after the Dalton experience that humour is required and how best to do it. Craig's approach is the right one for a realistic, personally invested spy imho. The sarcasm and biting wit, best showcased first with the martini scene in CR ("Do I look like I give a damn") and then later when he's tied to the chair being tortured. It's again demonstrated during the psych eval in SF. Realistic but cynical due to what life's thrown at him.
Having said that, they really had no choice imho. Roger Moore cast a very long shadow and it was going to take many years to exorcize his Bond from memory, especially as his humour/wry with was being copied by successful actioners of the day (as noted above).
Additionally, EON was making these films 2 years apart at the time, so the public's memory of the Bond they knew was very fresh - EON really needed a longer respite before going for a full break in character - which is why to some extent I agree with @Getafix that they may have missed an opportunity to break the trend with GE - while I really liked that movie it was the right time to be more daring than they were perhaps.
What's your point though? That there were other more popular actors and films around at the time? No denying that. But would Harrison Ford and Bruce Willis have made better Bonds? Much as I like both of them, the answer is no.
Regardless, I'm glad we never actually saw Tim on that carpet in Tangiers in the finished cut!
It's a funny one, because I like the 'Rog' elements in TLD myself. And some of the goofy humour in LTK.
I feel like LTK and definitely TLD is the end of an era. After that the films don't feel the same. I'm glad they just started to wipe the slate clean for Craig and I agree the humour in CR was very good. I'm a bit concerned that Mendes has begun un-doing some of that and is drifting back towards a sort of Moore era humour, that doesn't work for Craig.
I agree, I think my point was that Dalton just doesn't have the screen presence of certain other actors.
The key though is whether the public would have taken to him.
I think he should reinvigorate his career by getting a senior Jedi part in the new SW sequels, like how Neeson/Lee did in the prequels.
Well, there's always Christopher Lee as the benchmark for going strong well into one's senior years.
Dalton needs something big as a sendoff. The man deserves it.
You mean classically trained? And they're all from oop north!
I actually see Dalton much more in that kind of role than some lame older action star.
Watching Denzel in the Equalizer was a bit sad really. Brilliant actor, but really? And the whole Liam Neeson thing is a bit weird too if you ask me. He looks increasingly plastic. Does he actually gleen pleasure from making these trash movies? He was once considered a decent actor. Having said that, Taken was mildly entertaining, in a highly derivative, straight to DVD kind of way.
When is Simon Pegg or Edgar Wright going to cast him again?
CR 67 managed more than 2 ;)
I don't know what to make of Liam Neeson to be honest. A decent enough actor but is obviously at a point in his career where he doesn't care much anymore.
As for Neeson, he did make THAT line in Taken absolutely golden ("I don't know who you are, but I will look for you, etc") so his acting skills are top notch IMO.