Would Goldeneye have been a success with Dalton?

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  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I think Brits know more about 'our' character than Americans though. No offence, but Dalton has a very 'brit' style unlike say the successful (but not great) mid Atlantic style Brosnan.....that many Americans loved.

    Dalton is very truly British as opposed to cliched British. His command of the language betrays someone who went to Eton. His way of speaking as Bond is very authorative and commanding. Bond was a Commander in the British navy. I would expect that.

  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    acoppola wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I think Brits know more about 'our' character than Americans though. No offence, but Dalton has a very 'brit' style unlike say the successful (but not great) mid Atlantic style Brosnan.....that many Americans loved.

    Dalton is very truly British as opposed to cliched British. His command of the language betrays someone who went to Eton. His way of speaking as Bond is very authorative and commanding. Bond was a Commander in the British navy. I would expect that.

    Yes. Agreed.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Dalton was intense' not stiff. Anyway....Bond is 'a stiff ass brit' as one American said in GE....so he played it well either way! The American box office doesn't equate to quality.....Jurassic World and Avatar were both average....yet they are smashes!!!! Laughable.

    Some reputable journalists commented that Dalton may have been too intelligent for his audience. Sad but true. This "too stiff" is just someone parroting what they read elsewhere. Well put sir! Yes, intense indeed.

  • Posts: 15,231
    acoppola wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    Dalton is a theater actor and a respectable one but he was too stiff and theatrical in his Bond.

    Someone once said and I think it was Connery that said you can't act Bond, you have to be Bond.

    I don't the TV history is the thing. Dalton's style didn't appeal to many audiences. I really do appreciate and enjoy Dalton despite being in my opinion the least successful Bond to date.

    Lazenby just tried his best to be Connery not so much Bond. But he still wasn't stiff.

    Dalton was playing the Bond of the novels. He is in the books the more acid variety as opposed to be sugary.

    Dalton is an actor which requires an audience to look beneath the surface. Some can do that and get it. I give him credit for bringing something new and fresh to the role, knowing that it was going to receive criticism. That takes cajones!

    The Bond franchise needs to take risks to remain relevant. The cliches are exactly what will put the nails in the coffin eventually. Nothing is worse than copying the past or what came before. Dalton created a question mark and arguably is the most controversial actor. Ironically, he has created a sub-genre of the character and he is more appreciated now than almost thirty years ago.



    There is definitely growing appreciation for Dalton as Bond now.

    But people actually exaggerate his lack of popularity in the 80s. If you read the reviews from the time they were actually really quite positive. TLD was very well received by critics, and LTK got some excellent reviews, even in the US. Even if reviewers weren't keen on the films, they were often very positive about Dalton's performance.

    The Dalton films were also fairly decent commercial performers. EON and the studio made good money on both of them and LTK did decent BO outside of the U.S.

    I think the fact that LTK was a much grittier and darker Bond movie and that it ended up being Dalton's last has just overshadowed his legacy. It was a 15 in the UK, which means there was a whole group of kids who never got to see it in the cinema. EON knew that was a mistake. Dalton, who had virtually no creative control whatsoever, made it clear that he wanted his third film to be a lot more lifhthearted.

    Had Dalton done even one more Bond film, that was more in line with TLD or just a bit lighter, then I think his immediate legacy would have been very different.

    I also think there is an extent to which people conflate the darkness of LTK, the poor BO in the US and the six year delay, and sort of think this was all due to Dalton. The fact is that apart (perhaps) from the U.S. box office, none of this had anything to with Dalton and was just bad timing.


    I agree with you 100% Dalton got blamed by the general media for the six year gap. You @getafix know your history well. Craig was panned for QOS and then the studio bankrupcy cancelled his third film temporarily. An almost parallel situation. Luckily for Craig the production of his third film was ignited again.

    My point is that had Craig finished with QOS, a film that has been unfairly maligned, he would be in the same position as Dalton.

    For the record, I believe QOS was his best film. It was a great story and has none of the tick boxing elements that his two subsequent films have.

    The minute I saw Craig adjusting his cufflinks in the pts of SF, I knew we were in trouble. QOS was a take no prisoners performance by him, which I put way above SF and SP.

    I thought that in QOS, he was in his own universe, without that distracting Aston DB5 to remind people it still is a Bond film. SF to me was another reboot, to apologise for QOS which was a mistake. They had the perfect tone for Craig in QOS. No looking back, but, moving forward.


    While I agree that QOS was unfairly maligned, I don't think Craig would have suffered the same fate as Dalton had QOS been his last. For a few reasons:

    1)While Craig's casting was far more controversial than Dalton's, he came at a time when there was no heir apparent to his predecessor in the role. There was one when Dalton became Bond... and it was Brosnan, who built pretty much his whole pre-Bond career on the role he didn't get at the time.
    2)Craig had convinced both critics and public with CR. While TLD was popular, Dalton was still seen by many as the second choice, whatever the critics had said.
    3)I don't think anybody faulted Craig for QOS, even those among critics who didn't like it.

  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    edited November 2015 Posts: 4,116
    acoppola wrote: »
    [qu
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    No you dont. Dalton tried but too stiff.

    You can be a student of Fleming and not like Dalton.

    Way too simplistic view of the American audience.

    No you don't what? Your answer is no answer. Too stiff? What does that mean???

    My view of America I admit is not the highest. I won't even comment on their foreign policy or this continuing idea that American box office is more important than the rest of the world.

    You are from Texas? I am sure the Mexicans would love that back!

    Too theatrical... don't worry my opinion of you is even lower.

    Brosnan was popular but so was Connery and now Craig.

    You know what? Enjoy your Bond. It's not worth it anymore.

    Y'all want him? Have him. I'm done.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    acoppola wrote: »
    The American media wanted Brosnan and that informed the public of their attitude to Dalton. In the 80's the American media were far more influential than today. People believed what they were told just like "The weapons of mass destruction" that Iraq had.

    But TLD in the UK and Europe did very well. Dalton was hailed as the new Connery in some circles.
    I was in the UK during the 80's. I don't remember the sort of enthusiasm for Dalton upon TLD's release over there that greeted Craig with CR. There was appreciation for his tougher edged portrayal and certainly interest, but not the sort of impressive adulation that welcomed Craig, although not the indifference that he faced in the US either.

    I still think if he had come of the blocks stronger with TLD, he would have survived the dramatic tonal shift of LTK better. Craig definitely was given the benefit of the doubt due to the strong worldwide critical and commercial appeal of CR.
    acoppola wrote: »
    It is no secret that the Dalton era was badly marketed. Bond had been going for twenty five years and had been taken for granted. The decline had slowly begun in the 1980's before Dalton took over.
    That is true. The 80's were a poorly funded and marketed era due to MGM's/United Artist's never ending woes. It affected Moore's later tenure too. Production budgets were lower, as were marketing.
    acoppola wrote: »
    Case in point, some scenes in SP could easily have had Brosnan in the part. What was the point in rebooting to come back to what we have already had before? Now Bond stopped bleeding after a severe beating on the train. A big misstep after the excellent stairwell fight in CR. Shame really, because the Quantum story arc was excellent as an idea, which disappeared in SF.

    As Mark Gatiss put it, Dalton is the connoisseurs Bond. You have to know the roots of the character to fully appreciate his work. But we are less well read as a society. There are many ways to playing Bond, yet we are still straight-jacketed to the formula of old and that has finite sustainability in a fast changing culture of now.
    Completely agree on SP and on the fact that the 'old formula' has limited room to run in today's world. We have definitely moved on from that.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    [qu
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    No you dont. Dalton tried but too stiff.

    You can be a student of Fleming and not like Dalton.

    Way too simplistic view of the American audience.

    No you don't what? Your answer is no answer. Too stiff? What does that mean???

    My view of America I admit is not the highest. I won't even comment on their foreign policy or this continuing idea that American box office is more important than the rest of the world.

    You are from Texas? I am sure the Mexicans would love that back!

    Too theatrical... don't worry my opinion of you is even lower.

    Brosnan was popular but so was Connery and now Craig.

    You know what? Enjoy your Bond. It's not worth it anymore.

    Y'all want him? Have him. I'm done.

    I apologise I put you through the arduous task of having to type that. Go have a rest.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,830
    Dalton rules.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    acoppola wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    [qu
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    No you dont. Dalton tried but too stiff.

    You can be a student of Fleming and not like Dalton.

    Way too simplistic view of the American audience.

    No you don't what? Your answer is no answer. Too stiff? What does that mean???

    My view of America I admit is not the highest. I won't even comment on their foreign policy or this continuing idea that American box office is more important than the rest of the world.

    You are from Texas? I am sure the Mexicans would love that back!

    Too theatrical... don't worry my opinion of you is even lower.

    Brosnan was popular but so was Connery and now Craig.

    You know what? Enjoy your Bond. It's not worth it anymore.

    Y'all want him? Have him. I'm done.

    I apologise I put you through the arduous task of having to type that. Go have a rest.

    You're not worth it. "Stiff" is my opinion. Craig is natural ...same authority in his voice.

    This is a forum of options ..some agree, some don't. If you wish to represent the UK the way you do so be it.

    I'm not stooping to your level.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,830
    Boys with toys.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited November 2015 Posts: 1,243
    bondjames wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    The American media wanted Brosnan and that informed the public of their attitude to Dalton. In the 80's the American media were far more influential than today. People believed what they were told just like "The weapons of mass destruction" that Iraq had.

    But TLD in the UK and Europe did very well. Dalton was hailed as the new Connery in some circles.
    I was in the UK during the 80's. I don't remember the sort of enthusiasm for Dalton upon TLD's release over there that greeted Craig with CR. There was appreciation for his tougher edged portrayal and certainly interest, but not the sort of impressive adulation that welcomed Craig, although not the indifference that he faced in the US either.

    I still think if he had come of the blocks stronger with TLD, he would have survived the dramatic tonal shift of LTK better. Craig definitely was given the benefit of the doubt due to the strong worldwide critical and commercial appeal of CR.
    acoppola wrote: »
    It is no secret that the Dalton era was badly marketed. Bond had been going for twenty five years and had been taken for granted. The decline had slowly begun in the 1980's before Dalton took over.
    That is true. The 80's were a poorly funded and marketed era due to MGM's/United Artist's never ending woes. It affected Moore's later tenure too. Production budgets were lower, as were marketing.
    acoppola wrote: »
    Case in point, some scenes in SP could easily have had Brosnan in the part. What was the point in rebooting to come back to what we have already had before? Now Bond stopped bleeding after a severe beating on the train. A big misstep after the excellent stairwell fight in CR. Shame really, because the Quantum story arc was excellent as an idea, which disappeared in SF.

    As Mark Gatiss put it, Dalton is the connoisseurs Bond. You have to know the roots of the character to fully appreciate his work. But we are less well read as a society. There are many ways to playing Bond, yet we are still straight-jacketed to the formula of old and that has finite sustainability in a fast changing culture of now.
    Completely agree on SP and on the fact that the 'old formula' has limited room to run in today's world. We have definitely moved on from that.

    EON had learned from the Dalton era that a new actor needs a completely new approach. Dalton given his non-existent preparation time for the role, did an amazing job. They took their time with preparing Craig for the part. Why CR worked is everyone was 100% behind the new approach.

    In Dalton's time, not everyone on the team was 100% behind the grittier take. Dalton himself said it was just him and Cubby. There was resistance, so a compromise was reached. CR was a no compromise effort and that would help any actor looking to build the role from scratch.

  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,999
    Craig has no authority in his voice, but it is monotonous. A recent example, his "Oh no" in Spectre, it's so dull and half heated. Has he run out of milk? Has the cat got a hold of his toupée? Oh no, we might not find out.
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,731
    Craig has no authority in his voice, but it is monotonous. A recent example, his "Oh no" in Spectre, it's so dull and half heated. Has he run out of milk? Has the cat got a hold of his toupée? Oh no, we might not find out.

    Craig is lucky he has a deep(ish) voice that sounds masculine, because vocally he's not that strong a performer. SC and TD are lightyears ahead in that regard.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    acoppola wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    The American media wanted Brosnan and that informed the public of their attitude to Dalton. In the 80's the American media were far more influential than today. People believed what they were told just like "The weapons of mass destruction" that Iraq had.

    But TLD in the UK and Europe did very well. Dalton was hailed as the new Connery in some circles.
    I was in the UK during the 80's. I don't remember the sort of enthusiasm for Dalton upon TLD's release over there that greeted Craig with CR. There was appreciation for his tougher edged portrayal and certainly interest, but not the sort of impressive adulation that welcomed Craig, although not the indifference that he faced in the US either.

    I still think if he had come of the blocks stronger with TLD, he would have survived the dramatic tonal shift of LTK better. Craig definitely was given the benefit of the doubt due to the strong worldwide critical and commercial appeal of CR.
    acoppola wrote: »
    It is no secret that the Dalton era was badly marketed. Bond had been going for twenty five years and had been taken for granted. The decline had slowly begun in the 1980's before Dalton took over.
    That is true. The 80's were a poorly funded and marketed era due to MGM's/United Artist's never ending woes. It affected Moore's later tenure too. Production budgets were lower, as were marketing.
    acoppola wrote: »
    Case in point, some scenes in SP could easily have had Brosnan in the part. What was the point in rebooting to come back to what we have already had before? Now Bond stopped bleeding after a severe beating on the train. A big misstep after the excellent stairwell fight in CR. Shame really, because the Quantum story arc was excellent as an idea, which disappeared in SF.

    As Mark Gatiss put it, Dalton is the connoisseurs Bond. You have to know the roots of the character to fully appreciate his work. But we are less well read as a society. There are many ways to playing Bond, yet we are still straight-jacketed to the formula of old and that has finite sustainability in a fast changing culture of now.
    Completely agree on SP and on the fact that the 'old formula' has limited room to run in today's world. We have definitely moved on from that.

    EON had learned from the Dalton era that a new actor needs a completely new approach. Dalton given his non-existent preparation time for the role, did an amazing job. They took their time with preparing Craig for the part. Why CR worked is everyone was 100% behind the new approach.

    In Dalton's time, not everyone on the team was 100% behind the grittier take. Dalton himself said it was just him and Cubby. There was resistance, so a compromise was reached. CR was a no compromise effort and that would help any actor looking to build the role from scratch.
    That's a fair point and I've noted that same previously. CR was no holds barred....an all out assault. TLD, while a fine effort, was straddling the fence.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    Dalton has incredible voice projection.
    bondjames wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    The American media wanted Brosnan and that informed the public of their attitude to Dalton. In the 80's the American media were far more influential than today. People believed what they were told just like "The weapons of mass destruction" that Iraq had.

    But TLD in the UK and Europe did very well. Dalton was hailed as the new Connery in some circles.
    I was in the UK during the 80's. I don't remember the sort of enthusiasm for Dalton upon TLD's release over there that greeted Craig with CR. There was appreciation for his tougher edged portrayal and certainly interest, but not the sort of impressive adulation that welcomed Craig, although not the indifference that he faced in the US either.

    I still think if he had come of the blocks stronger with TLD, he would have survived the dramatic tonal shift of LTK better. Craig definitely was given the benefit of the doubt due to the strong worldwide critical and commercial appeal of CR.
    acoppola wrote: »
    It is no secret that the Dalton era was badly marketed. Bond had been going for twenty five years and had been taken for granted. The decline had slowly begun in the 1980's before Dalton took over.
    That is true. The 80's were a poorly funded and marketed era due to MGM's/United Artist's never ending woes. It affected Moore's later tenure too. Production budgets were lower, as were marketing.
    acoppola wrote: »
    Case in point, some scenes in SP could easily have had Brosnan in the part. What was the point in rebooting to come back to what we have already had before? Now Bond stopped bleeding after a severe beating on the train. A big misstep after the excellent stairwell fight in CR. Shame really, because the Quantum story arc was excellent as an idea, which disappeared in SF.

    As Mark Gatiss put it, Dalton is the connoisseurs Bond. You have to know the roots of the character to fully appreciate his work. But we are less well read as a society. There are many ways to playing Bond, yet we are still straight-jacketed to the formula of old and that has finite sustainability in a fast changing culture of now.
    Completely agree on SP and on the fact that the 'old formula' has limited room to run in today's world. We have definitely moved on from that.

    EON had learned from the Dalton era that a new actor needs a completely new approach. Dalton given his non-existent preparation time for the role, did an amazing job. They took their time with preparing Craig for the part. Why CR worked is everyone was 100% behind the new approach.

    In Dalton's time, not everyone on the team was 100% behind the grittier take. Dalton himself said it was just him and Cubby. There was resistance, so a compromise was reached. CR was a no compromise effort and that would help any actor looking to build the role from scratch.
    That's a fair point and I've noted that same previously. CR was no holds barred....an all out assault. TLD, while a fine effort, was straddling the fence.

    I said in the past that had a young Dalton been given a script like CR and the full support, I guarantee it would have been equally phenomenal. Dalton had incredible potential that was not fully utilised, because he is a talented actor. Nevertheless, he gave a great Cold-War portrayal of a Bond at the end of his tether in TLD.

    TLD is an excellent debut. and Dalton gave us sides to Bond's character that were scary. Like when he changes mood with Kara after the death of Saunders. That was new to the series. I can name so many amazing scenes. Dalton is the dark avenger Bond and looks so close to the Fleming description which helps.

    Over the years, Bond fans will appreciate Dalton more. I do not see any actors really now that scream of Bond. Bond is a classical archetype. A byronic hero.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,830
    Tell it, bro! =D>
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    AceHole wrote: »
    Craig has no authority in his voice, but it is monotonous. A recent example, his "Oh no" in Spectre, it's so dull and half heated. Has he run out of milk? Has the cat got a hold of his toupée? Oh no, we might not find out.

    Craig is lucky he has a deep(ish) voice that sounds masculine, because vocally he's not that strong a performer. SC and TD are lightyears ahead in that regard.
    I would add RM to that mix. His voice is incredible, despite his somewhat playful demeanour.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,830
    bondjames wrote: »
    I would add RM to that mix. His voice is incredible, despite his somewhat playful demeanour.
    Yes, that registered with me as a kid during LALD.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited November 2015 Posts: 1,243
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    [qu
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    No you dont. Dalton tried but too stiff.

    You can be a student of Fleming and not like Dalton.

    Way too simplistic view of the American audience.

    No you don't what? Your answer is no answer. Too stiff? What does that mean???

    My view of America I admit is not the highest. I won't even comment on their foreign policy or this continuing idea that American box office is more important than the rest of the world.

    You are from Texas? I am sure the Mexicans would love that back!

    Too theatrical... don't worry my opinion of you is even lower.

    Brosnan was popular but so was Connery and now Craig.

    You know what? Enjoy your Bond. It's not worth it anymore.

    Y'all want him? Have him. I'm done.

    I apologise I put you through the arduous task of having to type that. Go have a rest.

    You're not worth it. "Stiff" is my opinion. Craig is natural ...same authority in his voice.

    This is a forum of options ..some agree, some don't. If you wish to represent the UK the way you do so be it.

    I'm not stooping to your level.

    This is a forum of opinions you mean? Craig in SF is stiff as a rock, yet got praised like it was the best Bond ever. There is a double standard in Bond fandom when it comes to Craig and Dalton.

    But the coming years will see a change in that. I know many people who are seeing Dalton as criminally underrated. Natural implies that an actor put no effort in.

    In fact after SF, I see Dalton as more well-rounded and nowhere near as serious as some make him out to be. He smiles way more than I noticed before and studied the books intensely. Dalton was the first to show the many shadings of the character. He explored the parts that were not the most audience friendly.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    acoppola wrote: »
    In fact after SF, i see Dalton as more well-rounded and nowhere near as serious as some make him out to be. He smiles way more than i noticed before.
    Honestly, strange as it may seem, SP has made me reassess Dalton more positively, as a Bond who could do a rounded Bondian performance (in TLD) when called upon to do so.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited November 2015 Posts: 1,243
    bondjames wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    In fact after SF, i see Dalton as more well-rounded and nowhere near as serious as some make him out to be. He smiles way more than i noticed before.
    Honestly, strange as it may seem, SP has made me reassess Dalton more positively, as a Bond who could do a rounded Bondian performance (in TLD) when called upon to do so.

    Thanks! Dalton can be an acquired taste. His brilliance is that he thought out his approach knowing that trends will change and perhaps the world will catch up to his vision of the character. I could never accuse him of stealing from Connery or Moore. And Dalton loved Connery's portrayal immensely.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,830
    bondjames wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    In fact after SF, i see Dalton as more well-rounded and nowhere near as serious as some make him out to be. He smiles way more than i noticed before.
    Honestly, strange as it may seem, SP has made me reassess Dalton more positively, as a Bond who could do a rounded Bondian performance (in TLD) when called upon to do so.
    Craig does a fantastic stoic Bond with hints of levity; Dalton did the human Bond with weaknesses.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    chrisisall wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    In fact after SF, i see Dalton as more well-rounded and nowhere near as serious as some make him out to be. He smiles way more than i noticed before.
    Honestly, strange as it may seem, SP has made me reassess Dalton more positively, as a Bond who could do a rounded Bondian performance (in TLD) when called upon to do so.
    Craig does a fantastic stoic Bond with hints of levity; Dalton did the human Bond with weaknesses.
    Dalton seemed to fit the formulaic (TLD, of his two) template in a way that I preferred to Craig in his most (perhaps only?) formulaic outing to date (SP). I didn't expect to have such reassessment, but I have.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    acoppola wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    [qu
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    No you dont. Dalton tried but too stiff.

    You can be a student of Fleming and not like Dalton.

    Way too simplistic view of the American audience.

    No you don't what? Your answer is no answer. Too stiff? What does that mean???

    My view of America I admit is not the highest. I won't even comment on their foreign policy or this continuing idea that American box office is more important than the rest of the world.

    You are from Texas? I am sure the Mexicans would love that back!

    Too theatrical... don't worry my opinion of you is even lower.

    Brosnan was popular but so was Connery and now Craig.

    You know what? Enjoy your Bond. It's not worth it anymore.

    Y'all want him? Have him. I'm done.

    I apologise I put you through the arduous task of having to type that. Go have a rest.

    You're not worth it. "Stiff" is my opinion. Craig is natural ...same authority in his voice.

    This is a forum of options ..some agree, some don't. If you wish to represent the UK the way you do so be it.

    I'm not stooping to your level.

    This is a forum of opinions you mean? Craig in SF is stiff as a rock, yet got praised like it was the best Bond ever. There is a double standard in Bond fandom when it comes to Craig and Dalton.

    But the coming years will see a change in that. I know many people who are seeing Dalton as criminally underrated. Natural implies that an actor put no effort in.

    In fact after SF, I see Dalton as more well-rounded and nowhere near as serious as some make him out to be. He smiles way more than I noticed before and studied the books intensely. Dalton was the first to show the many shadings of the character. He explored the parts that were not the most audience friendly.

    Typo... opinions. Unlike you, I actually respect your opinion even though you presented in a less than gentlemanly way.

    Natural in that the performance doesn't come off as acting. Again that's my opinion.

    One more thing whether or not you agree with my government's policies or not is irrelevant. I don't always agree with my government's policies..foreign or domestic for that matter.

    You can't always judge a people by its government.



  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,830
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    You can't always judge a people by its government.
    Almost never now that government control is so corporate...
    8-|
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    I saw an interview with Seal this week and he was talking about his early career. He said that his ambition as a Brit was to 'break' America and he said that was what folks aspire to. The point being, you have to make it in America before you're credible.

    That was true historically and it remains true even if the relative influence has declined.

    SF benefited exponentially from its phenomenal success in the US.

    If I was a cultural product/export (music/film/star), I'd rather blow the socks off the US than China. That's just me though. It's not all about the money only......well....maybe, ;)
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    [qu
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    No you dont. Dalton tried but too stiff.

    You can be a student of Fleming and not like Dalton.

    Way too simplistic view of the American audience.

    No you don't what? Your answer is no answer. Too stiff? What does that mean???

    My view of America I admit is not the highest. I won't even comment on their foreign policy or this continuing idea that American box office is more important than the rest of the world.

    You are from Texas? I am sure the Mexicans would love that back!

    Too theatrical... don't worry my opinion of you is even lower.

    Brosnan was popular but so was Connery and now Craig.

    You know what? Enjoy your Bond. It's not worth it anymore.

    Y'all want him? Have him. I'm done.

    I apologise I put you through the arduous task of having to type that. Go have a rest.

    You're not worth it. "Stiff" is my opinion. Craig is natural ...same authority in his voice.

    This is a forum of options ..some agree, some don't. If you wish to represent the UK the way you do so be it.

    I'm not stooping to your level.

    This is a forum of opinions you mean? Craig in SF is stiff as a rock, yet got praised like it was the best Bond ever. There is a double standard in Bond fandom when it comes to Craig and Dalton.

    But the coming years will see a change in that. I know many people who are seeing Dalton as criminally underrated. Natural implies that an actor put no effort in.

    In fact after SF, I see Dalton as more well-rounded and nowhere near as serious as some make him out to be. He smiles way more than I noticed before and studied the books intensely. Dalton was the first to show the many shadings of the character. He explored the parts that were not the most audience friendly.

    Typo... opinions. Unlike you, I actually respect your opinion even though you presented in a less than gentlemanly way.

    Natural in that the performance doesn't come off as acting. Again that's my opinion.

    One more thing whether or not you agree with my government's policies or not is irrelevant. I don't always agree with my government's policies..foreign or domestic for that matter.

    You can't always judge a people by its government.


    mcdonbb wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    [qu
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    No you dont. Dalton tried but too stiff.

    You can be a student of Fleming and not like Dalton.

    Way too simplistic view of the American audience.

    No you don't what? Your answer is no answer. Too stiff? What does that mean???

    My view of America I admit is not the highest. I won't even comment on their foreign policy or this continuing idea that American box office is more important than the rest of the world.

    You are from Texas? I am sure the Mexicans would love that back!

    Too theatrical... don't worry my opinion of you is even lower.

    Brosnan was popular but so was Connery and now Craig.

    You know what? Enjoy your Bond. It's not worth it anymore.

    Y'all want him? Have him. I'm done.

    I apologise I put you through the arduous task of having to type that. Go have a rest.

    You're not worth it. "Stiff" is my opinion. Craig is natural ...same authority in his voice.

    This is a forum of options ..some agree, some don't. If you wish to represent the UK the way you do so be it.

    I'm not stooping to your level.

    This is a forum of opinions you mean? Craig in SF is stiff as a rock, yet got praised like it was the best Bond ever. There is a double standard in Bond fandom when it comes to Craig and Dalton.

    But the coming years will see a change in that. I know many people who are seeing Dalton as criminally underrated. Natural implies that an actor put no effort in.

    In fact after SF, I see Dalton as more well-rounded and nowhere near as serious as some make him out to be. He smiles way more than I noticed before and studied the books intensely. Dalton was the first to show the many shadings of the character. He explored the parts that were not the most audience friendly.

    Typo... opinions. Unlike you, I actually respect your opinion even though you presented in a less than gentlemanly way.

    Natural in that the performance doesn't come off as acting. Again that's my opinion.

    One more thing whether or not you agree with my government's policies or not is irrelevant. I don't always agree with my government's policies..foreign or domestic for that matter.

    You can't always judge a people by its government.



    Fair enough. I agree that governments are not representative of the people.

    I am passionate about Dalton, because I feel his tenure was cut short and the franchise missed out. And in my time, many people admitted to me that their negativity to Dalton was based on what they heard. I had a friend who said the same things you do, but, by reading the books and studying about the character outside the films , he went to loving his portrayal.

    Craig is playing Bond in a different era and acting styles have changed enormously. Dalton made me believe this character is a vicious bastard and unlikeable, which was a shock. Dalton made Bond a very real character with relatable human flaws.



  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,830
    acoppola wrote: »
    Dalton made Bond a very real character with relatable human flaws.
    And it's why the Dalton films are still the pinnacle of Bond for me.
    But SP is close...
    ;)
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    edited November 2015 Posts: 4,116
    I know I'm going to get lambasted for this but I sometimes feel that the world or at least the west is loosing it's identity.

    I've been to London several times and yes I know London is an international city with multiple cultures represented but I see cultural blurring and blending everywhere.

    I see elements of London trying to Americanize just like I see parts of Houston and Dallas trying to "Londonize".

    Just all the hatred and anger in here is unbearable sometimes.

    Get a grip.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,830
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    I see cultural blurring and blending everywhere.
    This is good. In a way. It might lead to a Star Trekian peace on Earth. After we eliminate greed.

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