Would Goldeneye have been a success with Dalton?

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  • Posts: 11,425
    The 1980s Glen movies are actually one of the most consistently entertaining run of movies in the series IMO.

    AVTAK is probably the low point but even that has plenty to recommend it.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Getafix wrote: »
    The 1980s Glen movies are actually one of the most consistently entertaining run of movies in the series IMO.

    AVTAK is probably the low point but even that has plenty to recommend it.
    Given the reduced budgets they had to work with at the time (in real terms), Glen did a great job. He focused on pacing, action and interesting plots. Characterizations were a bit weak and it was lacking in spectacle though.
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 11,425
    bondjames wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    The 1980s Glen movies are actually one of the most consistently entertaining run of movies in the series IMO.

    AVTAK is probably the low point but even that has plenty to recommend it.
    Given the reduced budgets they had to work with at the time (in real terms), Glen did a great job. He focused on pacing, action and interesting plots. Characterizations were a bit weak and it was lacking in spectacle though.

    Yes but that makes them in some respects closer to the first two Bond movies - more emphasis on plot, tension and good use of locations.

    Said it before and will say it again - Glen is very underrated round here.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Dalton should have stayed up until 2002.
  • Posts: 15,106
    Had he done Goldeneye he wouldn't have stayed after 1995.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Why?
  • Posts: 11,189
    In all honesty I don't get the sense Dalton was wholly comfortable being in the spotlight so I suspect the publicity storm surrounding GE would have discouraged him to continue.


  • Posts: 11,425
    I doubt it. Craig doesn't like the publicity either but has grown to love the role and some of the trappings that come with it.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Does he "love the role"? I'm not entirely convinced.

    He's not even sure whether he wants to continue now it seems.

    Also, in 1995 Dalton would have been almost 50 and I wonder if he'd have considered himself essentially too old for the part...at least if he were to potentially play the role several more times.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Does he "love the role"? I'm not entirely convinced.

    He's not even sure whether he wants to continue now it seems.
    It's debatable whether Craig loves anything about Bond at the moment, except the cash. I think he's done what he set out to do.
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Also, in 1995 Dalton would have been almost 50 and I wonder if he'd have considered himself essentially too old for the part...at least if he were to potentially play the role several more times.
    Agreed. I believe he came to the same conclusion, correctly. He did the right thing imho. He should have had his third, but not in 1995. Rather, sooner, but it was not to be.
  • Posts: 15,106
    Getafix wrote: »
    Why?

    Because they had reasons to cast a new Bond for GE and one of them was the lack of appeal of Dalton. Look I understand he was unfairly treated and criticized at the time and that his fans resent it but there's no way to rewrite history: the Dalton tenure was not the popular and critical golden age his fans think he deserved.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I think Dalton has been somewhat critical of his own two films. They are both solid flicks but I doubt he would refer to them as a "golden age".
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited July 2016 Posts: 7,108
    I seem to be in a minority here but although Dalts is my favourite, I did love Broz in GE.

    Ideally Tim would have done a third before GE.

    As it stands now TLD, LTK and GE are all absolute favourites of mine. Probably even my three favourites outside the 60's.
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 11,425
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    Why?

    Because they had reasons to cast a new Bond for GE and one of them was the lack of appeal of Dalton. Look I understand he was unfairly treated and criticized at the time and that his fans resent it but there's no way to rewrite history: the Dalton tenure was not the popular and critical golden age his fans think he deserved.

    Part of my point is that he wasn't unfairly treated or criticised at the time. He was actually pretty well received by audiences and critics alike.

    The myth that Dalton was critically panned or that the fans hated him is just not true.

    I think during the 6 year hiatus and after GE, history was rewritten and Dalton somehow blamed for the long gap, when it actually has nothing to do with him at all.

    If it hadn't been for the background issues Cubby would have certainly made a third Dalton movie in 1991 and then probably at least another one in 1993.

    Even now on these threads people seem to imply that it was Dalton's unpopularity that was the reason he only did two. But the truth is that if there hadn't been the legal disputes going on then we would have had at least three and probably more. That's a fact.

    Cubby had been trying to get Dalton since the 60s and wouldn't have ditched him after the minor box office blip in the US with LTK - which everyone at EON blamed on the studio anyway.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Getafix wrote: »

    Even now on these threads people seem to imply that it was Dalton's unpopularity that was the reason he only did two. But the truth is that if there hadn't been the legal disputes going on then we would have had at least three and probably more. That's a fact.

    Cubby had been trying to get Dalton since the 60s and wouldn't have ditched him after the minor box office blip in the US with LTK - which everyone at EON blamed on the studio anyway.

    But you never get a sense EON pulled out all the stops to keep him either.

    No sign of the studio weighing in with a wheelbarrow full of money as they did to get Sean back either.
  • Posts: 15,106
    Dalton was not unpopular but he was not very popular either. And I'd argue that outside the Bond fans he was borderline disliked. I remember when GE was released. Dalton supporters had no leg to stand on.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    According to Box Office Mojo the inflation adjusted figures for Dalton's two films are 23rd and 25th (they include NSNA) with only TMWTGG separating them.

    Just doesn't suggest people were coming out to see Dalton. Even with new Bond bounce TLD was unable to beat tired AVTAK with an aged Rog.
  • Posts: 4,813
    That brings a tear to my eye
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    LTK was the 12th highest grossing film in 1989. In 2015, that would make it the 2nd highest grossing non sci-fi/superhero/animation film, behind only 'Mission Impossible: Rogue Nation'.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    LTK was the 12th highest grossing film in 1989. In 2015, that would make it the 2nd highest grossing non sci-fi/superhero/animation film, behind only 'Mission Impossible: Rogue Nation'.

    Yet still a long way behind SP the Bond film of the day which is what we are comparing it to. What's your point exactly?
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    LTK was the 12th highest grossing film in 1989. In 2015, that would make it the 2nd highest grossing non sci-fi/superhero/animation film, behind only 'Mission Impossible: Rogue Nation'.

    Yet still a long way behind SP the Bond film of the day which is what we are comparing it to. What's your point exactly?

    I am not saying anything. Apart that even with an unpopular Bond, close to no budget, minimal advertising, and going against Ghostbusters, Indy, Batman, Lethal Weapon and Back to the Future, EON has never made a Bond film that finished below a yearly 12th place, in 24 attempts.
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 11,425
    Getafix wrote: »

    Even now on these threads people seem to imply that it was Dalton's unpopularity that was the reason he only did two. But the truth is that if there hadn't been the legal disputes going on then we would have had at least three and probably more. That's a fact.

    Cubby had been trying to get Dalton since the 60s and wouldn't have ditched him after the minor box office blip in the US with LTK - which everyone at EON blamed on the studio anyway.

    But you never get a sense EON pulled out all the stops to keep him either.

    No sign of the studio weighing in with a wheelbarrow full of money as they did to get Sean back either.

    Picture this. It's 1980 and they haven't made a Bond movie since The Man With the Golden Gun. Rog has been waiting 6 years for another crack at Bond but legal wrangling has prevented EON going into production. Gun was a commercial success but nowhere near as big as previous Bonds. Audiences don't seem to have taken to him in the same way as Sean. Suddenly everything drops into place and its go. Do EON pull out all the stops to keep Rog? Will the studio produce a wheelbarrow of cash? Or do they recast? There's no easy answer.

    Point being that if Rog hadn't been able to make Spy, history might have been very different.

    Similar legal issues could have hit Connery before he'd barely started. Imagine a six year break after FRWL. No GF, no TB. How would Connery be regarded now? Two very good movies, but would a cinematic legend have been established?

    According to Dalton (who doesn't strike me as a liar), EON wanted him to sign on for three films in 1994, but he felt he was too old. So despite the break, EON felt invested in him and wanted him to stay. After all CuBby had been trying to get Dalton since the 60s. That's a pretty big vote of confidence.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    edited July 2016 Posts: 8,196
    Too old? He could have easily played the role into the early 2000s

    Here he is in 2002 at the premiere if Die another Day.

    [img][/img]Dalton_zpsfe6tyznp.jpg
  • Posts: 4,813
    And even there in 2002, he was just barely as old as Moore was in AVTAK (depending on if his birthday is 1944 or 1946, I've seen both)

    So GoldenEye in 1995 would not have been an issue at all
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Sadly I think Dalton suffers from the problem several actors have. Basically a very
    Private person, in a very public Occupation. I doubt he would have returned after the
    Break in filming. As he seemed to be really uncomfortable with all the media Intrusion
    In to his life. Some actors can handle the pressure of constant press interest, others are
    Very very uncomfortable with it.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Good point.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,392
    Sadly I think Dalton suffers from the problem several actors have. Basically a very
    Private person, in a very public Occupation. I doubt he would have returned after the
    Break in filming. As he seemed to be really uncomfortable with all the media Intrusion
    In to his life. Some actors can handle the pressure of constant press interest, others are
    Very very uncomfortable with it.

    Case in point Daniel Craig.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Sadly I think Dalton suffers from the problem several actors have. Basically a very
    Private person, in a very public Occupation. I doubt he would have returned after the
    Break in filming. As he seemed to be really uncomfortable with all the media Intrusion
    In to his life. Some actors can handle the pressure of constant press interest, others are
    Very very uncomfortable with it.

    Case in point Daniel Craig.
    Agreed. They are both very similar in that regard.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2016 Posts: 15,713
    I believe Dalton said the most fun he's ever had in his life wasn't being James Bond for 2 films, but rather working on 'Hot Fuzz'. And I can see why, that film was a sh*tload of fun to watch, so I can't even imagine how awesome it must have been to make it.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Tim could have easily played Bond up through 2002. He looked great in the 90s.

    I agree on both points, but I can't imagine Dalton staying around for more than 4 films. TLD, LTK + 2 more would be fine by me. Had they the rights to CR, they maybe could have tempted him back for a 5th, but that's a maybe.
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